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Thread Number: 58355
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
whirlpool point voyager vs. filtration dishwashers |
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| Post# 808975 , Reply# 3 2/12/2015 at 20:54 (3,353 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
My Maytag  | ||
Post# 809034 , Reply# 4 2/13/2015 at 07:14 (3,353 days old) by combo52  (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Best Currently Available DWs The new MTs are very good, we are mostly selling them, with a few WP filter machines and quite a few KA models mixed in.
Whirlpool Is still building the worlds best DWs in Findley Ohio, they consistently have top rated DWs in leading testing magazines.
Bosch, Miele, Samsung, LG and several other DWs brands are so difficult to service that these machines are all essentially throw-away machines,so while some of these machines work pretty well for a while be prepared for really big repair bills and frequent replacements of the entire machine. | ||
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Post# 809142 , Reply# 7 2/13/2015 at 19:29 (3,353 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 809290 , Reply# 8 2/14/2015 at 19:04 (3,352 days old) by jeff_adelphi (Adelphi, Maryland, USA) |
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"Take it out, flip it over" This is why I won't service a Bosch or Miele dishwasher. With unhooking the water supply, drain line, and electric, then getting it out from under the counter, then having to reinstall, you can add about an hour to the labor charge. Almost all major repairs to a Whirlpool built DW don't require moving the unit. I installed a pump and motor assembly on a Bosch once, and will never do it again, even after it was out and on it's back, it was still a pain to get the bottom off to get to the motor. | ||
| Post# 809302 , Reply# 9 2/14/2015 at 20:09 (3,352 days old) by arris (Rochester New York) | ||
Bosch & Miele | ||
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Post# 809382 , Reply# 10 2/15/2015 at 12:01 (3,351 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Best Currently Available DWs Hi Henene4, Thanks for backing up my point about the necessity of removing most European DWs to repair them. We have found in our business that few people will repair a DW if it has to be removed for repairs. As my neighbor-customer up the street a few years ago said when I found that her 6 YO Bosch DW needed a new main pump and motor, " if you are going to have to pull it out to repair you may just as well bring me a new DW " She went on to say that the Bosch didn't hold nearly as much as her previous WP built KM Power-Clean DW did and the Bosch always smelled bad as well, so in went a New WP DW.
Henene4 it would be very helpful if you filled out your profile a little more, maybe a name and what your qualifications are if you want to be taken seriously, Thanks John. | ||
| Post# 809392 , Reply# 11 2/15/2015 at 12:27 (3,351 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
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" if you are going to have to pull it out to repair you may just as well bring me a new DW " What is the reasoning behind this statement? | ||
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Post# 809393 , Reply# 12 2/15/2015 at 12:30 (3,351 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 809398 , Reply# 13 2/15/2015 at 13:11 (3,351 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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But why is it so difficult to remove a dishwasher? It seriously takes me less than a minute to remove my Bosch: pop the kitchen's toe kick off, lower the dishwasher's legs one turn (all accessible from the front) and pull it out. Less than a minute. The water hoses are very long and unplugging the dishwasher takes one sec.
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Post# 809415 , Reply# 15 2/15/2015 at 14:50 (3,351 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Just to clarify... The part with the number of posts was directed to arris, who funny enough joined exactly 9 days after me. | ||
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Post# 809421 , Reply# 16 2/15/2015 at 15:14 (3,351 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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I believe it is not so much the dishwasher but the American kitchens and the way dishwashers are installed are the problem. Europe has a much more ingenious way of installing dishwashers, which is partly caused by the European standard kitchen design.
Here's a video about installing an American dishwasher: And here is one for a European dishwasher: The last video is in Dutch, but you only have to see the pictures to get the idea. | ||
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Post# 809431 , Reply# 17 2/15/2015 at 15:50 (3,351 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 809442 , Reply# 18 2/15/2015 at 16:50 (3,351 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Installing a European vs A US DW Thanks for posting these videos Louis, to me it is about a toss up as to which is easier, it is certainly easier to level a European DW and you can really see the amount of inside space that is sacrificed on European DWs with the very long legs.
Both of these installations are about ideal in terms of ease, no built-up floors in front, old plumbing problems etc to deal with, I am always thrilled when we encounter an installation this easy and in our area not one in twenty are close to this easy. | ||
| Post# 809469 , Reply# 19 2/15/2015 at 18:17 (3,351 days old) by arris (Rochester New York) | ||
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Bosch & Miele
Henene4
Not sure what part with the # of post"s you are referring too, dosen't matter though. Good to hear you offer advice like many of the other members, was never an implication you didn't was just referencing why this site is such a great place to go for new & vintage appliances, along with the abundace of repair knowledge from other members. I've learned a lot about WP/KM washers & dryers from Gordon and John. Have a good day......................... | ||
| Post# 809968 , Reply# 21 2/18/2015 at 16:04 (3,348 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
Logixx
< one minute--honestly?
We all have a saying in the here bouts of Kansas--Horse Pucky? What about trim rings, counter mounts, floor entrapments, not to mention that pesky insulation that wants to hang on for dear life. I uninstalled my Maytag, and installed the Kitchenaid and with not changing any plumbing and only switching the electrical and hooking up hoses it took me better part of one hour. If you can do all this in less than an minute, you should be hiring yourself out for $90 bucks a pop for installation you could make yourself a fortune. | ||
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Post# 809982 , Reply# 22 2/18/2015 at 17:44 (3,348 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Yup - one minute.
The opening for the dishwasher is standardized and the unit fits in seamlessly with no trim needed. The three feet are hight adjustable and are adjusted so that the dishwasher presses itself against the counter, thus I didn't install the two screws for the counter mounts. The floor is tile even underneath the dishwasher - no entrapment. All the insulation is hidden behind stainless steel side panels. | ||
| Post# 809985 , Reply# 23 2/18/2015 at 17:51 (3,348 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Possibility I know nothing about how European dishwashers are installed, and I'm oh-so-intimately familiar with the horrors that can unfold on this side of the pond with built-in installations (low, inflexible countertops and/or raised flooring to name just a couple). It might be fun to make a thread about how each is installed with a little YouTube vid showing the process, so we can watch and learn from each other. And possibly commiserate at key points. :-) I'd love to learn why it's simpler over there. | ||
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Post# 810001 , Reply# 25 2/18/2015 at 20:18 (3,348 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Installing a European vs A US DW Hi Nate, you were supposed to watch the posted videos, the only thing I couldn't decide after watching was which installer was hotter, LOL.
But seriously, this afternoon I worked on an eight year old Bosch DW that would not drain. The customer was ready to trash the thing, but I knew since the drain pump was running it couldn't be that difficult to repair. So I disconnected the fill line, cranked the feet down and pulled the thing out. Then I pried the left side panel off [ was not built for easy removable ] and found a weird drain hose junction that was clogged with a part of a rubber check Valve from the DW. I removed the clog reassembled the DW and reinstalled the DW [ TOTAL TIME ONE HOUR ] and the floor was not even built up.
A similar repair on a WP DW would take 15-20 minutes, time is money and I can assure you that most repair people would just condemn a DW that has to be pulled out for service unless it was very new or expensive. | ||
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Post# 810003 , Reply# 26 2/18/2015 at 20:23 (3,348 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Installing a European vs A US DW Hi Nate, you were supposed to watch the posted videos, the only thing I couldn't decide after watching was which installer was hotter, LOL.
But seriously, this afternoon I worked on an eight year old Bosch DW that would not drain. The customer was ready to trash the thing, but I knew since the drain pump was running it couldn't be that difficult to repair. So I disconnected the fill line, cranked the feet down and pulled the thing out. Then I pried the left side panel off [ was not built for easy removable ] and found a weird drain hose junction that was clogged with a part of a rubber check Valve from the DW. I removed the clog reassembled the DW and reinstalled the DW [ TOTAL TIME ONE HOUR ] and the floor was not even built up.
A similar repair on a WP DW would take 15-20 minutes, time is money and I can assure you that most repair people would just condemn a DW that has to be pulled out for service unless it was very new or expensive. | ||
| Post# 810013 , Reply# 27 2/18/2015 at 21:30 (3,347 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Derf! | ||
| Post# 810116 , Reply# 29 2/19/2015 at 19:15 (3,347 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
I just say I would kill to have a dishwasher with a disposer, having dealt with european filtered dishwashers and currently keep seing them I here say they've generally nothing to do with the disposer kind ones for easyness and cleaning, tell all you want to, but they cleans better to me, and yes, in europe dishwashers since long now tend to have weak pumps lazy sprays, take forever and not clean well, now more than ever before...
I already said how unhappy I've been all these years after our 80s left us.... Now I am really happy with vintage indesit, even though being a filtered type all I needed was an actual washing action, not some random sprinkling on stuff modern US eco and european dishwashers averagely do from awhile now... All clean and dry! Oh and I finally see again some cups turned from the water if I don't block them like in the old days we had an almost functional machine, a thing I never saw with the 6+ machines I changed in these years! I am quite unsure about certain affermations here, and what are mere ponts of view (outdating)..based on what??? Because of eco theories and what they tell you? The fashion? Ah ah! I want my dishes clean! Then, the matter is that while till few years ago in the US you had even the most BOL dishwashers with PV, powerful pumps and real washing that costed as much as 200 bucks or less and took the hell out of your dishes as the TOL models did (TOL just meant more features), now you've "modern"Eco dishwashers with filters costing on the several hundreds full of trinkets but of which though many people laments of about cleaning, and can't quite figure it out how's possible! Add to that longness of cycles etc...and here you have people unhappy. Infact is absurd for an american, in europe is now decades that it all is standard! There're people happy with their TOL export Mieles and Bosch you'll say... well..not my uncles with their 900 bucks bosch anyway, and how does a Miele or Bosch cost??? Installation matter: Yes, I can't really say that for an european the way dishwashers are installed in the US is weird! It is. But it has it's reasons why. Always remember that in the US the dishwasher "came" or became common in homes earlier than it did in generally in europe. The US have much an earlier and much more commonnes of kitchen in blocks, customed kitchens and built in appliances than europe, and that's historically so. So for built in or permanent installation there's just another attitude, and that is meant to be permament, unlike in Europe was. That meant that while in Europe getting a dishwasher meant just put it under something or along other kitchen appliances, in the US it was just something you did put there and secured it. Not a case in the US there's the distinction among portable dishwashers you'd connect and take away and permanent ones, this was for those not having built in, where in europe is such a thing? Nowhere! All dishwashers had to be sort of mobile for these reasons! So they were kind of hybrid in this sense and so remained. In the US not. Then of course comes funny exagerations such as those drain valves, building codes etc..but that's California and we now know US have a huge problem of nanny statism and this kind of laughable silly crap ....California more than other states. About front servicing. Now....there's not a most logical way of doing things, I see both the benefits of front servicing as well as being able to take the whole thing out, even though removing the pump from inside I think it's easier and avoid much troubles and damages to the machine paint etc...maybe also quicker than for european models where you have to open it... But remember that was for specific reasons..copper pipes last longer, no need to change, no plugs that burns..etc..there is more like a permanent appliance mindset for built in, no need to move for clean, no stuff dropping behind etc..in europe instead there was and there still is another attitude a kind of mix for both portable and built in concepts. | ||
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Post# 814532 , Reply# 30 3/17/2015 at 20:00 (3,321 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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point voyager dishwasher sounds I noticed when my dishwasher is running at my dad's house, his sounds like a GE potscrubber dishwasher due to that pump motor. | ||
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Post# 816169 , Reply# 31 3/27/2015 at 22:49 (3,310 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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dishwasher normal/high-temp wash Here is a video of my whirlpool gold dishwasher washing dishes. CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK | ||
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