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Thread Number: 58452
/ Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Updates to the '57 GE |
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| Post# 809695 2/16/2015 at 20:17 (3,349 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
One thing the Princess was crying out for was a lighted dial...and now that's been taken care of!
After work I picked up several different LED replacement lamps to experiment with. Because of the limited space above the timer there's not room for a C7-sized lamp, (and I'd worry about melting the dial with an incandescent, anyway). Anything off to the side lost too much light. No room in front of the dial and no real room behind it at the center. What ended up working the best was a G8-based halogen replacement (the kind used in undercounter puck lights). 2.5w and 170 Lumens meant I could locate the unit elsewhere and still get good brightness. It's the thickness of a couple quarters and has lots of concentrated light. After playing around I found a spot that gave the best effect and used a piece of 12ga wire and a nut as a mount. The leads are soldered onto the timer lugs and everything is completely reversible for originality. With the heat and steam in this area I wouldn't trust any kind of tape so the leads are heat-shrink wrapped and the mount is mechanical. 
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| Post# 809696 , Reply# 1 2/16/2015 at 20:18 (3,349 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
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| Post# 809697 , Reply# 2 2/16/2015 at 20:19 (3,349 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
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Post# 809698 , Reply# 3 2/16/2015 at 20:21 (3,349 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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| Post# 809701 , Reply# 4 2/16/2015 at 20:27 (3,349 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
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| Post# 809725 , Reply# 5 2/16/2015 at 23:49 (3,349 days old) by washdaddy (Baltimore) | ||
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i was wondering about the orange wire myself. | ||
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Post# 809736 , Reply# 6 2/17/2015 at 02:04 (3,348 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Post# 809762 , Reply# 7 2/17/2015 at 07:00 (3,348 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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| Post# 809766 , Reply# 8 2/17/2015 at 07:30 (3,348 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
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Paul, I was hoping this would help others out : ) It makes a big difference IMO.
Regarding that orange wire...I think I see what's going. The way the machine works right now is that the timer will stop if you unlatch the door lock. Looking at the schematic, it appears that if the orange wire were moved to the orange terminal, the timer would continue to run to end of cycle while power to everything else would be cut. There's no telling how long this has been wired this way but I think I prefer being able to interrupt the cycle without the timer advancing. Maybe some other owners can weigh in on how theirs operate. I'm not sure what the brown terminal connects to electrically- on the diagram it's simply unused. -C *Edit: The calrod is also in parallel with the timer motor so it wouldn't be a good idea to power it with the drawer open. Perhaps this was a last minute revision. This post was last edited 02/17/2015 at 09:01 | ||
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Post# 809780 , Reply# 9 2/17/2015 at 08:44 (3,348 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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Post# 809813 , Reply# 10 2/17/2015 at 13:32 (3,348 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Lovin' the light;; you're going to have to do a whol
Cory, thanks for the pictures and I'm sad to say that I don't know the actual answer to either of your questions but I suspect that plastic was still in its infancy and very expensive; also the easy answer is that that's the way the previous models' round silverware baskets were constructed so they just went with that protocol. Then, for 3 years, they went with an all-coated wire design while they were working the kinks out of an all-plastic basket that would exist to this day.
Changing the dials to all-white made no sense at all and, for a while, the dials on some of the TOL built-ins were white and blue. CU criticized those large dials with their tiny windows so GE scrapped them altogether when they scrapped the top loader built-ins in 1962.
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Post# 809843 , Reply# 12 2/17/2015 at 17:51 (3,348 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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IIRC the brown lead is there for the Rinse Dispenser which was a standard feature on the '57 Empress but was an optional accessory on the Princess. I have an Electrical Schematic somewhere that illustrates the connection. When I find it I'll post it. On every GE Pull-out and Mobile Maid I have, everything shuts down when the machine is open. What I don't remember is that on the built-ins you can move the latch to "CLOSED" as opposed to "ON"; I can't tell you what that does.
I'm very much enjoying these threads. Be careful of that Calrod; if this is in fact a 1957 machine, that coil is rated at 750 Watts. Don't put anything that's even remotely burnable, scorch-able or melt-able, anywhere near it on the lower rack. Also, if you plan to use this machine for a while you might want to wrap the wires on the lower rack that are directly above the coil with aluminum foil. The heat from the coil is enough to cook the vinyl off of the wire in time. I think GE offered something like a re-call in 1958 to retro-fit the heating units because of the number of service calls they received. I guess this wasn't a problem in the earlier units because the tanks weren't coated with Plastisol and the configuration of the racks was just different enough that they didn't suffer the same fate. The good news here is that you could connect your machine to cold water and you'll still end up with a piping hot wash. The following schematic is for a later SP-40 machine; you get the idea. If and when I find the schematic for the SU-60P, I'll post it. 
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| Post# 809858 , Reply# 14 2/17/2015 at 20:00 (3,348 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
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Oh, there's definitely some GE funny business going on here. They made some serious wiring changes between the 57 and 59 rollouts and I have a theory as to why.
Does anyone out there have the owners manual for a 57 rollout? I'm curious as to how they say one should start the machine operating.... And thanks for the advice, guys. I'll try to use this machine sparingly. Now I have visions of Oneida cutlery spiraling into disaster! -C | ||
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Post# 809859 , Reply# 15 2/17/2015 at 20:03 (3,348 days old) by jetaction (Minneapolis) |
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Love the lighted dial..... | ||
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Post# 809865 , Reply# 16 2/17/2015 at 20:45 (3,348 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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they say one should start the machine operating.... | ||
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Post# 809867 , Reply# 17 2/17/2015 at 21:00 (3,348 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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I think the checker pattern of dots was a visual representation of detergent granules being distributed, appropriate for the WASH section of the cycle. Interesting that it appears on my B&W dial JPEG illustration but didn't come out in the exported upload of the blue and red dial. It's there in the Adobe original. Computers is just crazy.
I think there's an operator's manual for the '57 Princess in the Ephemera library. | ||
| Post# 809871 , Reply# 18 2/17/2015 at 21:33 (3,348 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
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Those dots do make it easier to see what the machine is doing without having to get right up on it.
Bob, I've got a little something up my sleeve but want to see what GE instructed on paper before I put my foot in my mouth. I'm trying to determine if my mod was done by GE for convenience, for safety, or at a customer's request. I know the MM instructions say to close the lid to start operation, which is fine for a top loader that automatically pops up, gets unplugged and wheeled away, but did GE apply the same logic to the rollouts? Hmm, I can't seem to find a '57 Princess manual in auto-e... | ||
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Post# 809927 , Reply# 19 2/18/2015 at 11:06 (3,347 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Let's see...
Somebody uploaded this manual to the site years ago. I believe it's for the 1957 model year, but if somebody else knows better...
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| Post# 810216 , Reply# 20 2/20/2015 at 08:15 (3,345 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA) | ||
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“The tale of the orange wire”
Thanks to everyone who’s chimed in, especially Ken and Paul for being good sports. Herein lies the tale of the orange wire.
According to the ’56 rollout diagram (the “old” design), the interlock switch on that machine is a basic SPST type. Move the interlock lever to Open and all power to the unit is cut. In ’57, GE changed the switch to a SPDT type and added “the orange wire”. With an appropriately equipped timer mechanism, the unit could now discern between open and closed and limit (or allow) certain functions depending on the position of the timer dial in conjunction with the position of the interlock switch. The thinking being that the two could work like a 3-way switch arrangement in your house…. With interlock closed, the machine would complete its entire cycle and advance the timer until it reached OFF at which point the timer switch would kick over to its other contact. When you unlock the unit to unload your dishes, that action re-energizes the timer circuit so that the timer advances to Start, but when it reaches Start, the timer kicks back to the first contact and the timer stops. THUS, when you put in dirty dishes and slide the interlock to LOCK (just like closing the lid on a mobile maid), a new wash cycle begins. However, their implementation on the timer side with just a single movable contact left a lot to be desired. Now, there’s a couple of interesting points here. For one, the 750w Calrod in the ’57 will fire up anytime the timer is powered. So when the missus goes to unload the dishes next morning and opens the drawer to unload the clean dishes, the heater will energize the second she slides the lever to Open and will continue to heat until the timer reaches Start. With minimal shielding on this version, that’s probably not a great idea to have your finger tips next to that element (removing the orange wire solves this but also defeats the ‘advance to start’ feature). The wiring diagram for the ’58 fixes this issue by adding an interrupter switch in the timer to isolate the timer motor, despite the 58 use and care manual stating otherwise (and I have feedback from Paul that his ’59 fires up the Calrod when power is on the timer as well). Are the diagrams in error? GE even goes further and changes the “Main” switch on the timer to a double pole type which in theory would allow separate camming of those contacts but I don’t know if GE took advantage of that. Now what about drying? The manual Ken posted says opening the interlock lever during the drying cycle will NOT stop ‘Drying’. That the dial must be manually advanced to OFF. Can an owner confirm this? Here’s where the later addition of the ‘Dial Interrupter’ switch makes sense. The timer motor could continue through the Dry cycle to its off position WITHOUT the Calrod needing to be heating an open drawer. Again, did GE take advantage of that? Sounds like Paul’s 59 doesn’t with the heater across the motor. I've attached the wiring diagrams and it's interesting to note the interlock implementation on the first diagram which is the '57 MM..different than the 57 RO but similar to the 59 RO without the 'new' interrupter switch. This whole exercise is more academic than anything but it’s interesting to note there’s no change in functionality between a properly wired 57 and Paul’s 59 despite the electrical changes indicated on the diagrams. But then who’s to say the diagrams are correct? All I know is that I'll pay closer attention to any future GE's I come across! | ||
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