Thread Number: 59043  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New to me WP, plus questions
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Post# 816102   3/27/2015 at 16:51 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
My landlady has just replaced her laundry equipment, and the old washer and dryer have come down to live in my laundry room. Actually "old" is relative--I am guessing it's fairly new, certainly newer than what I've used recently. Supposedly both work well, although cosmetic appearance could be much better. (I haven't gotten around to a full cleaning. Even with that, though, there will be issues like scratches.)

I'm assuming the washer is a direct drive design. I am also assuming it's a rock bottom product--the temperature control is controlled by the timer dial.

Model # is WTW5200sq0

Some photos attached. Excuse the poor quality--the camera is old, and the operator was in a rush when taking them...


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size



Post# 816104 , Reply# 1   3/27/2015 at 16:58 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Questions I'm wondering...

Roughly when was it made? (Serial # CU4121001)

As we all know, DD machines have a certain...reputation for being rough on clothes. One possible concern I see: from what I see on the timer dial, it looks like the delicate cycle works by intermittent agitation. I assuming the motor is one speed. Is that cycle actually capable of being "delicate"? (I don't do a whole lot with delicate, but I do like having the option.)

Is this machine new enough to have issues with seriously dumbed down water temperatures, weird water levels, etc?

Thanks for any answers!


Post# 816105 , Reply# 2   3/27/2015 at 17:00 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
A final photo showing the old washer. One look, and many here will understand why I hope this new washer works out!


Post# 816106 , Reply# 3   3/27/2015 at 17:00 (3,288 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Yes, direct drive and lower-end model.  1-speed.

Model WTW5200SQ0 Parts Listing


Post# 816107 , Reply# 4   3/27/2015 at 17:02 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
BTW the clothes pin on the Frigidaire is part of my State of the Art Spin Assistance program. The washer needs a helping hand often, and so that gets used to hold the lid switch down.


Post# 816108 , Reply# 5   3/27/2015 at 17:08 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>Yes, direct drive and lower-end model. 1-speed.

Thank goodness! DD has issues, but one fear I had when I first heard about this equipment (but hadn't seen it up close) was that it might be some problematic design using two drops of water or whatever. (I think this washer went into service at my landlady's about 2.5 years ago. But they might not have been brand new.)


Post# 816109 , Reply# 6   3/27/2015 at 17:12 (3,288 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Comparable to a Roper I inherited from a relative but with 3 water levels (the Roper had two). The agitation periods on delicate (functions like a Maytag FabricMatic) are brief, seemed reasonably gentle. Only one water level pressure switch on the parts listing so rinse should be same level as wash. The water valve shows a thermistor connection but can't say if it's wired in the circuit on this model.

Serial indicates 41st week of 2007, several years newer than the aforementioned Roper.


Post# 816111 , Reply# 7   3/27/2015 at 17:24 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
Thanks, DADoES

lordkenmore's profile picture
I guess these aren't quite as new as I'd thought! I knew they were bought about the time that Frigidaire appeared here, but, of course, they could have been bought used. In any case, the probable one water level for wash/rinse sounds hopeful. Thermistor less so, but I generally don't do super hot washes.

Post# 816115 , Reply# 8   3/27/2015 at 17:32 (3,288 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
for most gentle of agitation, always use a high water level for the Delicate cycle....

they pulled some tricks to certain machines when it comes to these dubbed down temps, or rather tricking you into thinking your getting something your not....

worked on one, that when you selected Hot wash, you did get full hot water, for 1 minute, and the rest of the fill would be Warm.....you could not reset the timer for another minute...tricky little bugger, the best you could do was for the duration of the fill, was to turn down the Cold faucet until it was filled....

every model will probably be a bit different, wont know until you plug it in and try it out, and just monitor to see what kind of results you get....

wash action can't be any worse than your Horizon, moving the clothes in a circle, not the most desirable wash system, but it does work....

try it out, see what you think....


Post# 816124 , Reply# 9   3/27/2015 at 18:16 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>wash action can't be any worse than your Horizon, moving the clothes in a circle, not the most desirable wash system, but it does work....

As far as I'm concerned, those Frigidaires are not particularly desirable, period. I have had experience with 2 Frigidaires about that era, and neither really impressed me as a washing machine. When this one appeared on my doorstep as "your new washer!" I just about did something that would result in a tough laundry stain in my pants. Maybe for this Frigidaire, it would be an impossible stain...

I have been able to get by OK, if not happily. One thing that helps: I don't have hugely challenging laundry. Even so, conditions seem to need to be right. I hate to admit this, but once upon a time, many years ago, I was a cold water wash abuser. [Lord Kenmore looks down in shame.] What changed that--in a hurry--was the experience with Frigidaire #1: warm water was a requirement, not a nicety, to assure a reasonable chance of cleaning properly. I also have to wonder if laundry detergent quality isn't also considerably more important than it might be for a better washer.

The only good point to that Frigidaire is that it MAY have better tub capacity. It's hard for me to judge by looking. It certainly was a huge increase in capacity with Frigidaire #1 (which replaced a WP BD of some sort). But being single, and compulsive about sorting laundry, most of the time capacity isn't much of an issue.

Even with dumbed down wash temperatures (if they are an issue here), I have to think this WP DD will be a huge step forward.


Post# 816126 , Reply# 10   3/27/2015 at 18:22 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
As mentioned above, the washer came down with a dryer friend. Here's a picture of the dryer for those wondering. It appears to have similar stying, although no idea if it was the "matching" dryer.


Post# 816127 , Reply# 11   3/27/2015 at 18:26 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Close up of timer dial.

Post# 816165 , Reply# 12   3/27/2015 at 22:12 (3,288 days old) by thefixer ()        

The water inlet valve assembly does not have a thermistor, it's a bi-metal contact that limits the hot water temp to probably around 110 degrees. If you want true hot water, disconnect the yellow/black wire from the valve assembly.

Post# 816171 , Reply# 13   3/27/2015 at 22:55 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Well, I did a preliminary test with a garden hose to supply water, and it appears to more or less work OK. The one problem I do note is that it appears that it appears to do a spin drain, not a neutral drain. I am assuming neutral drain is "correct", which raises the question of "how important is neutral drain"?


Other point I note: the water level is definitely lower than I'd probably ideally like, although it should be high enough to handle my day-to-day laundry needs.


Post# 816172 , Reply# 14   3/27/2015 at 22:56 (3,288 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>The water inlet valve assembly does not have a thermistor, it's a bi-metal contact that limits the hot water temp to probably around 110 degrees. If you want true hot water, disconnect the yellow/black wire from the valve assembly.

Good to know. Thanks!


Post# 816242 , Reply# 15   3/28/2015 at 10:48 (3,288 days old) by thefixer ()        

Did you let it agitate and go into drain on it's own? The washer must agitate for a few seconds in order for the neutral drain mechanism to be "set", then when it switches to drain, it should go into neutral and drain without spinning. It's no big deal if it isn't working but does put a little more strain on the motor and may cause the clutch pads to wear a little more than normal but neither of these are really of any significance.

Post# 816276 , Reply# 16   3/28/2015 at 16:26 (3,287 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>Did you let it agitate and go into drain on it's own?

I am thinking I did, but can't say for sure. I was in a rush, and the big thing was just making sure the basic functionality is there, and whether the machine will likely work for that laundry room. Call me paranoid, but I've had enough bad experiences with supposedly working laundry equipment that I need to see for myself before committing to the hassle of pulling out the old machine, putting in the new machine.

I'll have to test again.


Post# 816341 , Reply# 17   3/28/2015 at 21:24 (3,287 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

The neutral drain only works when the washer ends agitation with the lid closed. Then it will neutral drain for you. If you have the lid up it will agitate but then stop for the spin. When you close the lid the neutral drain is bypassed and it will go into spin/drain mode. That's how ours works.

I don't particularly like the neutral drain as it redeposits any soap suds you may have left over on top of the clothing.


Post# 816346 , Reply# 18   3/28/2015 at 22:24 (3,287 days old) by thefixer ()        

No direct drive model made in about the last 12 years will agitate with the lid up. For older models that will agitate with the lid up, closing the lid after agitation stops should not interfere with neutral drain. If it does, that's just a quirk of your machine.

Post# 816355 , Reply# 19   3/28/2015 at 23:53 (3,287 days old) by supersurgilator (Indiana)        

can you show a money shot of the horizon? I'd like t see what agitator it has.

Post# 816469 , Reply# 20   3/29/2015 at 18:56 (3,286 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
can you show a money shot of the horizon?

lordkenmore's profile picture
Of course. Some pictures:

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 816472 , Reply# 21   3/29/2015 at 19:14 (3,286 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

No direct drive model made in about the last 12 years will agitate with the lid up. For older models that will agitate with the lid up, closing the lid after agitation stops should not interfere with neutral drain. If it does, that's just a quirk of your machine.

Our machine is a 1993 TOL model. It has always had the ability to agitate with the lid up.


Post# 816477 , Reply# 22   3/29/2015 at 19:48 (3,286 days old) by thefixer ()        

That's because it's over 12 years old. Whirlpool changed the location of the lid switch circuit in their DD's around 2003. All DD models since then have the lid switch in the motor neutral circuit or the machine L1 line circuit (on load sense models) which means with the lid open, the drive motor will not function at all.

Post# 816486 , Reply# 23   3/29/2015 at 20:45 (3,286 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
This machine definitely does have the lid switch for both agitate and spin. And it's hidden. An annoyance, since I like to be able to see the clothes agitate. Not just as a "washer fan" but also it gives a sense of whether all is well or not.

Post# 816493 , Reply# 24   3/29/2015 at 22:10 (3,286 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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If you get a small flash light and look under the left hinge of the lid, you'll see the switch. It's basically like a little "C" shaped opening for an extended part of the hinge to pop up into. My weapon of choice for these was just the cap to a ball point pen, with the little stem for the pocket clip on it. Just put the stem part in and you may have to twist it, but that should throw the switch.

Post# 816495 , Reply# 25   3/29/2015 at 22:14 (3,286 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
I've never understood why Frigidaire decided on that agitator design, as the top part doesn't actually rotate on its own as a normal dual-action does. Seems like the counter-clockwise stroke would defeat the effort to roll the load over as the slanted vanes would push upward on anything directly against them.

Post# 816498 , Reply# 26   3/29/2015 at 22:37 (3,286 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))        
You have been upgraded 300%:

whirlykenmore78's profile picture
That WP will wash and rinse many times better and be much more reliable than the pile of S#!t it replaced.
To put it quite simply you have gone from one of the worst Tl designs EVER to possibly the BEST.
Enjoy your Whirlpool and the freedom from that horrid excuse of a washer. You and your clothes will be much happier.
WK78


Post# 816518 , Reply# 27   3/30/2015 at 05:38 (3,286 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
for what its worth, that WCI agitator was one of their better designs for causing a load to turn over, yeah, the top slant fins don't seem like they would do much of anything, but considering the way the tub does extreme indexing, this really comes into play of pushing clothes down versus them rotating in a circle of a regular straight vane...

not that their considered the greatest, my MIL has a Kenmore version since 2002, and still running strong, it has a dual action agitator matched to it...surviving this long without a single repair, knocking on wood!


Post# 816520 , Reply# 28   3/30/2015 at 05:47 (3,286 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Frigidaire

mrb627's profile picture
That is a pretty well featured model. I wouldn't drag it to the curb just yet. It might just need a new belt to resolve your spin issue. And there is an array of agitators that will fit it.

Malcolm


Post# 816521 , Reply# 29   3/30/2015 at 05:54 (3,286 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
May I just note...

... that anybody on this side of the pond could be jealous of your ability to change one of the most important parts on a washer in terms of cleaning with little to no effort. There is close to no chance of doing so here without buying an entirely different machine.

Post# 816577 , Reply# 30   3/30/2015 at 15:55 (3,285 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
I've never understood why Frigidaire decided on that agi

lordkenmore's profile picture
Who knows? If I had to guess--only a guess--it might have been a case of a cheap to make agitator that looked impressive.



Post# 816581 , Reply# 31   3/30/2015 at 16:19 (3,285 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
You could see about finding the dual-action version for that machine, I believe it will fit the same way. Just in case it could be used as a secondary, as Malcolm said.

I actually have always liked the Frigidaire/White design. My Aunt Robin's (not to be mistaken with the other aunt that ruins her washers) machine is a '98 model with the larger tub and DA agitator, and it still runs multiple times a day without a care in the world. I found a video of one identical to hers interior-wise, although much cleaner. That unique whirr-whomm-whirr-whomm of the Franklin transmission is even the same, though hers doesn't have that rhythmic knocking sound the machine in this video has.

I believe Frigilux has one of the last models of this machine, if he still has it. I'm still on the lookout for one to cleanup and restore, and adjust the water level switch to the proper level. I think like any machine if you load it right, it honestly is a pretty good washer. Hers has never had a problem with rollover even with heavy loads, so I think this design really depends on what agitator and tub it is paired with. The indexing has always been a fun quirk to me, and it seems like it keeps everything balanced as well.

I think a lot of people have the wrong impression of the indexing in these machines. It seems that some have the idea that the agitator is oscillating in place and the load and tub are spinning around it, which would indeed cause a huge tangle. Realistically, the agitator is also turning with the tub, and if you were a "fly on the basket" and were looking at the agitator from the point of view of the moving tub during operation, the agitator would be oscillating back and forth to the same points in relation to the tub just as it looks in a machine where the tub is braked in place.




Post# 816584 , Reply# 32   3/30/2015 at 16:27 (3,285 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
Found one video of this agitator's wash action. I'm surprised that with as advanced a control board as this machine has, it only has the single-piece agitator and the small tub. I can see how those slanted vanes could help push clothes down in a way, Yogi, seeing it in action.





Post# 816588 , Reply# 33   3/30/2015 at 16:45 (3,285 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>To put it quite simply you have gone from one of the worst Tl designs EVER to possibly the BEST.
Enjoy your Whirlpool and the freedom from that horrid excuse of a washer. You and your clothes will be much happier.

That thought had occurred to me. I was quite happy to see a DD appear, frankly. I am not sure I'd consider a DD the "best ever." Of the washers I've used, I think actually the best I've used is a BD Kenmore.

But...the WP DD is probably the best for the current circumstances. A BD is 30+ years old now, and had my landlady snagged one, it would likely be a tired wreck. With luck, this DD should cause me zero trouble, and if something does go wrong, they are supposedly quite easy to work on.

Past this, this one seems clean. I am not thinking cosmetics, I am thinking about the inside of the machine. There is a slight scent of detergent, but that is all. This is a big deal: about the time the Frigidaire appeared, the first option tried was a Hotpoint from elsewhere on the property. That Hotpoint had been used on nothing but cold water for at least 2 years. It REEKED of mold/mildew. I spent at least a couple of nights running that thing with warm water (water heater is 120 degrees), detergent, bleach, endless soaking/agitation (I still remember working at the computer, hearing the machine pause, and I'd race out to reset the timer to get more wash time). And...after that...it still positively reeked. Maybe I could have done something, but when the Frigidaire appeared, I decided I'd swap machines just to have something that would work.

I am also relieved the DD is a top load. I don't think a front load machine would work well in that laundry room.


Post# 816591 , Reply# 34   3/30/2015 at 16:59 (3,285 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>That is a pretty well featured model. I wouldn't drag it to the curb just yet. It might just need a new belt to resolve your spin issue. And there is an array of agitators that will fit it.

I have contemplated keeping it around as a second machine...but we'll see. Ultimately, not my machine, not my decision, and I suspect my landlady will want it gone to keep things "tidy." But we'll see what happens.

We already had one battle over that washer. She wanted to pull that Frigidaire the day the new appliances were delivered. But the installation had to wait for a number of reasons, and past that--based on bitter past experience (note my comments about that Hotpoint that reeked of mold above)--I wanted to make sure the new machine works the way it should before the old machine goes.



Post# 816592 , Reply# 35   3/30/2015 at 17:02 (3,285 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>not that their considered the greatest, my MIL has a Kenmore version since 2002, and still running strong, it has a dual action agitator matched to it...surviving this long without a single repair, knocking on wood!

Haven't I read someone theorize that Frigidaire machines either ended up very short lived, or else lasted and lasted?

This one I've been using is about 20 years old, although no idea how heavily used it was. Originally owned by an older retired woman, and then there was a known spell when her house was only lived in a few weeks a year. So...it could be relatively low mileage unit.


Post# 816595 , Reply# 36   3/30/2015 at 17:10 (3,285 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>Hers has never had a problem with rollover even with heavy loads, so I think this design really depends on what agitator and tub it is paired with.

The agitator choice probably makes a huge difference. The Frigidaire I used years back didn't--as I recall--work as well with rollover. At least, it was more temperamental with loading/water level. It was probably a lower end unit, and it might well have had a poor agitator design.

Then, again, maybe I've merely adjusted after all this time, and know what to do automatically without thinking.

Or else there might be some quirk specimen to specimen.


Post# 816597 , Reply# 37   3/30/2015 at 17:28 (3,285 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
WP washer - A couple tips for you John

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

John we have the exact same WP washer at my work for shop towels, etc.  Yes it's a basic "2 knob wonder" but it works well.   I rigged the lid switch so it will always run, lid open or closed.   I did this by opening the control panel and adding a jumper wire to (between) the wires for the lid switch.   Another option could be to add a toggle switch to the back of the control panel and connect it to the lid switch wires in the same way so the bypass is switchable, not permanent. 

 

I also drilled out the hot water side of the inlet valve to produce a much better flow.   If it were my own personal machine I would have used an even larger drill bit than I did (see the link).

 

So far the machine has proved to be a workhorse as well.   One weekend a year or so ago we worked a weekend for a special project and I ran 26 loads through that machine in a 14 hour period!

 

Also, a quick tip.   Do NOT use the "low" water level for any reason!   The level is SO low that the uber fast agitation splashes the water up and over the top of the tub and down the inside of the cabinet!   I found the floor wet around the washer a few times.

 

I hope all this helps!

Kevin



CLICK HERE TO GO TO RevvinKevin's LINK

Post# 816607 , Reply# 38   3/30/2015 at 18:22 (3,285 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Yes, Kevin, what you say helps. I am particularly glad to know about the low level water problem. (What was WP thinking?!?)

Modifying the inlet valve is an option I'll keep in mind. At this point, it's not a relevant issue--the laundry room's hot water supply doesn't work--all hot water comes in by bucket. (One test that washer needed to pass, in fact, was whether the washer would work if water was added directly, not by inlet valve. I didn't expect a problem, but in this era of mechanisms to dumb down temperatures, water levels, etc, I figure it doesn't hurt to be paranoid.) Eventually, the plumbing might get fixed, and at that point, a modification might be in order.

I have also contemplated bypassing the lid switch, but haven't decided. We'll see how I feel when it goes into service, I suppose. Part of me would like to do it, but then there would be the probable need to reverse the bypass job when I reach the point of moving on. No idea when that might happen, but I suspect that washer will be here longer than I will be.


Post# 818133 , Reply# 39   4/8/2015 at 16:48 (3,276 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
Washer & Dryer now in service

lordkenmore's profile picture
I finally got around to installing the washer last week. But now the washer is in service.

I won't pass judgment until I've used it more. That said, things seem to be going well. Shredmore or not, there are no huge gaping holes in any clothing yet. LOL

But I can already identify one irritation: I don't like the approach of using one dial to set both time and temperature approach. Time and temperature are two separate settings. Even worse, perhaps, the cold water has the shortest time. Ummm...haven't I heard that when using tap cold water, the agitation time needs to increase to compensate for the lower temperature? (Of course, it's probably other issues at work. Whirlpool probably doesn't want to seem "energy insensitive". They want to avoid: "What are they thinking? 10 minutes of hot water, and then it goes RIGHT DOWN THE DRAIN? And they give you 18 minutes of time with cold water?!?")

In any case, I wish WP had put a separate switch. I don't know anything about washer production, but surely that couldn't cost much. Of course, this could be one of those "make it look cheap, so the customer will cough up the money to move up to the next machine" moves...

Although I suppose that the single knob system probably works well enough for most people most of the time...


Post# 818134 , Reply# 40   4/8/2015 at 16:53 (3,276 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
Oh...yes, as for the Frigidaire... It is lingering in a corner, and I've heard no plans to remove it. I am guessing it won't happen any time soon, if at all, due to the need to get a vehicle that can haul it off. We'll see. I hope the Frigidaire does stay because it does have a true delicate cycle. Just in case, I am on a washing binge to wash up stuff like blankets, etc.

Post# 818154 , Reply# 41   4/8/2015 at 18:57 (3,276 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        
Single Control

dadoes's profile picture
 
Easy enough to reset the timer to the desired wash time after filling is done.



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