Thread Number: 59700  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
KDS 18 Leak and Other Questions 		[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items
Post# 823233   5/13/2015 at 11:51 (2,884 days old) by saridout (Dallas)        

I finally got my KDS-18 installed last week, and have been running it and fixing what I can. I replaced the O-rings in the soap dispenser, which were leaking pretty badly and shorting out the bimetals. Now there is no water in the door at all, but I still have a small leak (two drips during last night's sani-cycle) appearing on the rubber flap above the kick panel. It felt like the bundle of wires had some moisture on it BELOW the door cavity, but the wires were dry as a bone inside the door. Are there any known weak spots in the tub seals that would lead to a leak here? See attached pic.


Other issues:

Plate warmer is not functioning. The timer kicks in and the light comes on for the plate warmer, but no fan comes on. I don't know if I should be able to feel any warmth under the machine from the heater, but there is none. Thoughts?

Odd sani-cycle behavior. After the rinse, the Sani light comes on and the machine emits a sound like there is a fine spray inside. It made this sound for about 8 minutes, during which I opened the machine and a great deal of steam puffed out. Then it cycled back to Rinse again. Is this normal? I thought the Sani was supposed to just be a hot rinse.

  View Full Size



Post# 823240 , Reply# 1   5/13/2015 at 13:28 (2,884 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
I can't speak to that leak

 chachp's profile picture

...but is it possible that the sound you hear during the Sani Cycle, that you think is a fine spray, is actually the heating element heating the water? 

 

When mine is heating the water you can hear what sounds a little like a hissing noise.  If you got a lot of steam and then the rinse started up I suspect that's what you were hearing.
Post# 823241 , Reply# 2   5/13/2015 at 13:33 (2,884 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Plate warmer

 turquoisedude's profile picture

I'm not that well-versed in KitchenAid dishwashers, but have you noticed the heater functioning during the dry phase of regular wash cycles?   If you can set the timer to the dry part of a regular wash cycle, try that to see if your heater is kicking in.  I'm not familiar with the 18 series machines, but if there's an 'energy saver' switch, check it to make sure it's not stuck and overriding the dry heater.  

 

That's all I got.... LOL 
Post# 823248 , Reply# 3   5/13/2015 at 14:42 (2,884 days old) by saridout (Dallas)        
Could be!

 "Fine spray" is the only way I could think of to describe it... I wasn't expecting the water getting hot to make a noise! Mystery solved :)


@turquoisedude: the KDS18 has a Plate Warmer button, but I can see no evidence that it does anything; no warmth in the tub that I can tell. I would assume that I'd be able to feel SOME heat radiating. There does seem to be an issue with the Energy Saver button. It has no action; when the washer door is locked, it becomes slack and the button just slides back and forth. I will investigate this further.

Post# 823257 , Reply# 4   5/13/2015 at 15:32 (2,884 days old) by saridout (Dallas)        
Just noticed...

 The manual says: "Selecting the Energy Saver button along with any of the 'wash and dry' cycles, will shut off the heating element during the dry portion of the cycle. The fan in the drying system will continue to operate. "

So theoretically, I should here a fan. All I hear during the dry/plate warm modes is the timer ticking.

Post# 823266 , Reply# 5   5/13/2015 at 16:18 (2,884 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Almost answered your own question!

 When the machine is in the dry portion of any cycle except the rinse and hold cycle, the fan should be running all the time.(The fan does sometimes turn on whle the r/h cycle is advancing to the off/reset position on some timers)As you said, the energy saver button simply shuts off the heating element. If the fan did not run and the element comes on, you should get some smell like a very hot electric heating element smell. There is an over heat protector on the dryer assembly which may be turning the heater off so maybe no smell.
I would pull the machine out and try to turn the blower by hand. If it turns that is one hurdle.then you should look to make sure that all the wiring to the blower motor is intact and not broken or that one of the crimp on connectors has not come apart. KA never really used great connectors and after this many years, any of them could have corroded enough to break off or lose their connection.
If all looks good then the motor itself may be shot. Again if it is the original, anything could have caused it to fail at this point.
Now, if the fan is stuck, and the motor is still actually good, the motor itself will shut off by thermal protection as well. You may be able to get the motor turning again by lubricating the bearing housings with some light oil like 3 in one for electric motors. It is non detergent and really light. The bearings are just brass bushings that absorb oil from the cotton wicking inside of the housings and are probably dried out. Try moving the blower wheel after a few minutes of soaking and you may get some more life out of the blower and motor.
Trying all these tricks is easiest if you remove the motor itself from the housing. It is held in with 2 screws and has keyhole slots to rotate the motor free of the housing.
You will need to check the little thermal protector with the two terminals on it that is screwed to the housing.If you know how to use an electrical test meter, it should show a closed condition at room temperature. If it does not, then it is open and the heater will not heat(assuming the heater is still actually good). You can test the heater using your ohm meter as well and should show a small resistance when you connect the leads across the heater element connections(2 tabs on two ceramic blocks with the supply wires removed.

As Ralph said, the Sheath heaters will give a sizzling sound when heating the water in the last rinse especially because it is pouring 1400 watts thru that water. As soon as it finishes filling for the final rinse, check your water level. It should be above the element and just a little bit of the way on to the bottom of the tank itself. The final fill is less than the main wash and rinses so do not expect to see it nearly as high as the top of the filter. If it is significantly lower, then you have a fill valve problem and this will affect all the fills and rinses on all the cycles. I don't have the fill chart handy to tell you how many qts each segment requires but somebody will probably chime in and let you know.
BTW, the machine DOES also delay for a short while in the final rinse fill even whn you don't select "Sani" cycle but will only delay for a short amount of time and then continue the cycle regardless of the water temp it sees at that time.

The small drips you saw, are not worriesome as the black rubber piece is called an evaporation channel and lets any small drips accumulate there to dry. If you are still seeing water above the galvanized panel where you showed the drip location, make sure that when you put the outer panel on that it sits in the little rounded out area of that channel. It will help seal the moisture out of the door cavity. Also, make sure that the rinse dispenser is not leaking from the gaskets in the tank or from the dispenser itself.

Hope this helps. Lots of little nagging things happen when machines are this old but it is fun and satisfying to find the problems and fix them.

Post# 823802 , Reply# 6   5/16/2015 at 23:23 (2,880 days old) by saridout (Dallas)        

Hey Steve! I knew you'd be a font of knowledge. We'll be pulling out the machine soon, since I hear that we put the wrong drain hose on it (corrugated plastic), and I'll test out your suggestions then. I'm going to run a load tomorrow and I'll check the fill levels and let you know how they look.

I'm glad to know that the drips aren't worrisome. So far, I'm having a lot of fun with the KDS18!

Post# 823879 , Reply# 7   5/17/2015 at 13:19 (2,880 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Drain hose worries!

 Funny you mentioned the corrugated hose..when we moved into our house there was a GE profile dishwasher that my wife absolutely hated. She only had to live with it for about a week before my Kitchenaids arrived from the old house back in NY.I put in the KDS18 and used the corrugated hose left from the GE and found that we always had water left in the sump. I even changed the drain valve just to be sure it wasn't the problem but it continued to leave the water. Stupid me! I changed the hose back to a 5/8" auto heater hose and the water drained batter than ever and worked like the machine had always worked. It is amazing how much resistance there is in those hoses.
Use what the factory says to use and there are usually no problems.

Ironically, Washer manufacturers are finding mold and crud building up in the corrugated drain hoses on the front loaders as well now. Something else to consider changing when there is a smell that cannot be isolated!

Post# 823896 , Reply# 8   5/17/2015 at 15:43 (2,880 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

I always thought that water was supposed to be in the sump to keep seals soft and block odors from coming through.

Post# 823920 , Reply# 9   5/17/2015 at 17:49 (2,880 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Correct!

 But usually not more than a very small amount, plus between cycle segments, you would want to get out as much of the dirty water as possible.

Post# 823926 , Reply# 10   5/17/2015 at 19:11 (2,879 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Wow, I didn't realize that. All my DW that I can remember as well as washer have had the corrugated hose. I will have to check it out.

Post# 823929 , Reply# 11   5/17/2015 at 19:30 (2,879 days old) by saridout (Dallas)        
Pew!

 I noticed after the last cycle that it was a little stinky inside, suspiciously like the garlic jar I washed on Friday. The washer was a really tight fit in the cabinets, so it may not come back out for a few weeks :/

Just ran a sani-cycle, and the final fill appears to be just above the edge where the filter breaks into a cone on top. Is that about right?

Post# 823933 , Reply# 12   5/17/2015 at 19:50 (2,879 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
I don't want to mislead you...

 Cuffs, but many dishwashers come with corrugated hoses and their drain cycles allow enough time to get the proper amount of water out in more than enough time. KA's always had the smooth walled hoses going all the way back. The drain period and rate of discharge are all figured in together and with the smooth hose and the time period given to hold open the drain valves, it should also be adequate to drain the machine properly. I would say go with what the machine came with from the factory and you should be fine!



Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      


Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members Click Here To Sign Up.



                     

automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
 Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals 		Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy