Thread Number: 59720  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Washer Spin Logic 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 823487   5/15/2015 at 03:22 (3,262 days old) by washer111 ()        

As many are aware, we have a Miele W5741 front loader as our daily driver.

Something that is really, really bugging me about this washer is the logic in the spins, on practically every load, unless washing very small (under 1/2) loads of light fabric, the machine is trying to spin at high-speed too soon, and as such, enters oversudsing protocol. It has not displayed the "too much detergent" alert, but this is something I fell shouldn't be happeneing

This happens on half-loads of towels (our usual weekly wash), half loads of cottons, as well as anything larger.

The pump has been cleaned out regularly and there are no restrictions in the drain pipe.
Machine is not being overloaded with detergent, usually about a half-dosage for most laundering (which falls around the half-three quarters mark), no excess suds in the wash or rinsing phases.

I'm not sure if there is any logic that could be altered regarding the spin.
Reducing the spin speed isn't of much help, since the problem begins just as the machine starts to speed up following the 'distribution phase,' prior to spinning. During this phase, the pump stops surging and pumps solidly. Trouble is, the machine decides to start increasing speed too soon, resulting in the water-locking I am describing.
(The machine seems to smart enough sense when the pump has gone dry, and will cycle the drain pump during the drain phases, each time as it begins to surge).

Can any other members with Miele washers comment on this? Is this a normal behavior, or is it possible there is a drain restriction I am not aware of?




Post# 823492 , Reply# 1   5/15/2015 at 04:58 (3,262 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
What is suds lock?

 I get over sudsing. Too much detergent and mechanical action causing suds to spew out of the machine. The machine you have will detect a rise in pressure, lower the speed and dilute the wash liquor etc.

Suds lock searches show a few bubbles at the window of the machine.

Is there some sort of lock up of the machine?
Does this happen with modern detergents?

As for the Miele, with the 7 I have owned in the past I have to say they were fond of making foam (especially with lighter towel loads) but the machine carried on to the end of the cycle.



Post# 823502 , Reply# 2   5/15/2015 at 06:32 (3,262 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Suds lock

 Suds lock occurs if a layer of water and foam build up between the outer tub and drum. As a result of the physical motion, it not only locks up the drain pump, but creates a lot of friction.

On your Miele: Sometime in the last few years, Miele updated the spin cycles. The first versions of these machines with the aggressive spin cycles sometimes even caused suds to come out of the drawer. As this could have happened on boilwashes, they fixed it with a softwareupdate as a matter of a safety issue. 2012 actually sounds like the time I recall.
AFAIK the detergent message only comes on if there is a suds lock detected during final spin. So, if after the pre-programmed rinse plus the suds-away rinse no improvement is given (that happens rarely), the washer shows a fault.

In your situation, I'd call Miele, tell them about your problem and say you heared about that software update. And most likely, they'll send you a technician out for free. If not, they most likely will do it for free if you go the route of "My machine isn't even that old and if it was there from the begining, you basicly have to do it for free". Just be nice and they'll help you.
The visit will basicly only be technician walking in, hooking up the optical connector to his laptop and to your machine. He will then transfer the changed software, check the machine for correct operation, print you the bill about his visit and leave. Matter of 15 minutes.

Post# 823503 , Reply# 3   5/15/2015 at 06:41 (3,262 days old) by washer111 ()        

Thanks Henene for the suggestion.

No, it isn't suds-locking. I've seen that happen, and absolutely know what that looks like in the machine (it has happened on some loads un-expectantly before!)

Will give Miele an inquiry, and see how that goes. Although, living in a rather remote area, this may not be feasible. If its a matter of silly software, then I'll just be sure to watch the detergent loads, so it doesn't whip up a nice batch of froth for the end of cycle.
After performing its 'corrective procedure' when it does detect suds (water) -lock, the spin following carries on fine, and without event.

What I may try in the meantime is maneuvering the drain, if possible to try and get a faster drain out of it. Check for twists in the drain, and so on.

Since we don't do any boil-washes, except for one or two items for the machine's semi-regular "maintenance wash," it isn't a safety issue. And we don't overload the detergent, so I'm not expecting a monster to emerge from the detergent drawer anytime soon :P

Post# 823595 , Reply# 4   5/15/2015 at 17:23 (3,262 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

I had this issue with our W3933, there is a vent hose on the top of the pump that was clogged.

Before the spin starts, the machine appears to drain all the water and does so until the tub empty's and air ends up in the pump.

The machine then start to spin, but because there is air in the pump and the vent is blocked, the extra water cant drain until after the pump fills with water again, which cant happen until the spin and pump stop. Then when the pump restarts it can clear more water. Ours was full of Bean bag beans, I have no idea how they got there as I'm not aware of owning anything that has them in there, but that's what was blocking the vent.

Its a bugger of a hose to get to without taking the side panel off the machine. I did ours with the top off and front open, but I lost lots of skin in the process and spent a good couple of hours swearing at it. In hindsight I should've just removed the panel and made it easy.

If you run the machine empty, does the problem occur?

Regards

Nathan

Post# 823600 , Reply# 5   5/15/2015 at 17:49 (3,261 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Yes, call Miele and ask for a software update. Reading comments on the German forum, it seems fairly common for Miele washers to accelerate too quickly... until a software revision is released eventually. I think even the W1 series already had a spin update.

Post# 823664 , Reply# 6   5/16/2015 at 01:55 (3,261 days old) by washer111 ()        
@brisnat81

 Thanks for the suggestion:

The machine does not exhibit the problem when empty. But perhaps the blockage in the pump you mention only becomes an issue when large quantities of water from cottons are being dealt with?


Post# 823673 , Reply# 7   5/16/2015 at 04:57 (3,261 days old) by krisirl ()        
Yes, call Miele

logixx is right - this is common on certain Miele's but a simple software update will rectify this. You may even get it for free.


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