Thread Number: 60682  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Kenmore 80 series question/story
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Post# 833202   7/21/2015 at 22:18 (3,172 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        

stan's profile picture
So a friend of mine bought a used kenmore 80 series washer from a local appliance store.
Model 110.20802
Serial 20002990
She specifically wanted a washer with a warm rinse option, and liked that this machine offered that, and a second rinse option.
After hooking up and running a load, we noticed that while on warm/ warm the machine would not give warm rinse? Wash temp works for hot, warm, and cold, but only cold comes out for rinse, no matter where the temp switch is set.
The machine came with a 90 day warranty.
So I called the store, and they said a service tech would call back.. He did and talked to me!
He said that there was nothing wrong with the temp switch that I'll never get a warm rinse! I explained that the machine had 7 position temp switch, that included warm rinse, and that Whirlpool wouldn't put a 7 position temp switch on this model if only three positions could be used.
He maintained that I never get a warm rinse, with or without a new switch.
So here's my question.. Is there any truth to what he says?
And if I order a new switch.. I'm I correct that the part number for the temp switch is 661615.
Also anyone know the age of this machine?
Here's the best pic I can find of the control panel from anther machine


  View Full Size



Post# 833205 , Reply# 1   7/21/2015 at 22:34 (3,172 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
I thought

stan's profile picture
About the water inlet valve not having continuity, ect But incoming wash water changes from cold to warm to hot when you change the selector ?

Post# 833211 , Reply# 2   7/21/2015 at 23:58 (3,172 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

My mom has a series 80. IIRC the temp dial has 2 sets of identical temp selections: One with and one without ATC. here's an idea: Make sure you've selected NON-ATC warm/warm and turn OFF the cold valve. What does the washer do for the rinse?

 

My mom has never used the ATC. I don't use it because I've always preferred to be the one to decide my wash and rinse temps. The valves are right above the washer so it's actually easier to leave the dial set to warm/warm and adjust the temp using the valves. The only time the temp dial is changed is if one wants a different rinse temp and is afraid one'll get caught up in something and forget to change it. 

 

Jim 


Post# 833214 , Reply# 3   7/22/2015 at 02:06 (3,172 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Jim

stan's profile picture
I'll try that and see.
I just don't believe that Whirlpool put a seven position temp switch on that model if cold is the only option!
The service tech is trying to say that it was a "manufacture defect" that warm is printed on the control panel.
He really said that!


Post# 833222 , Reply# 4   7/22/2015 at 03:21 (3,172 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Spin spray?

mrb627's profile picture
This may be one of those machines where the warm rinse only applies to the final spin spray rather than the deep rinse. I would check for a service sheet in the console and/or the cycle grid for further information before ordering any parts.

Malcolm


Post# 833240 , Reply# 5   7/22/2015 at 07:07 (3,172 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Warn Rinse ?

combo52's profile picture

On some models like this the Warm rinse is only about 60-70 degrees F so the warm rinse setting will not be as warm as the warm wash setting. So the machine may be working correctly if your cold water is not below 60F it will only fill with cold water. [ of course there is absolutely no reason to rinse clothing in anything warmer than 60F water, it not good for the clothing, not good for the washer or the environment ]

 

Get a copy of the owners manual to see how this model is supposed to work, we can date the machine if you get me the correct serial #, the serial # always starts with a letter.

 

John L.


Post# 833252 , Reply# 6   7/22/2015 at 08:15 (3,172 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
this is the trick.....for the most part, who really checks the rinse temp, they set the machine and walk away, only to return to a tub of warm clothing to be removed.....and leave it at that.....

roughly about 2002 or so.....and without noticing, except for people like us......a WARM rinse is available, but note, it is the spray rinse of the last spin that is WARM, not the deep fill for the rinse!.....energy saving qualifications......

I quickly noticed this on a whirlpool I had at the time that came with the new house.....in that the rinse filled with cold.....yet the load was warm once they spun out.....

here a downside.....if your water heater is too far away from the machine, the spray will not be warm, by the time the hot water reaches the machine, the spray has shut off.....


same goes for some of the newer versions, at least a whirlpool I got to work on.....you could select a HOT wash, but it only fills for 60 seconds with hot, the rest is temp controlled WARM, not a true hot wash in my opinion......but for the average consumer, they are loading clothes and turning on the machine, adding detergents as it fills, they note hot water filling, proceed to close the lid, and go about their way....never noticing that it did not fill completely with hot water....stopping the machine and turning the timer completely around will not reset the setting....


sorry to say, but that machine is working properly.....not in the way you would think, but it is doing what it was designed to do.......saving energy, and giving you what you think to be a warm rinse....

your only other choice is to return it for an older version of this machine...I am going to guess something before 2000 for a true deep fill warm rinse.....

that is a well featured and beautiful machine just the same.....


Post# 833268 , Reply# 7   7/22/2015 at 10:16 (3,172 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Yep, pretty sure Malcolm and Yogi speak the truth. My TOL Kendaire does the same thing. If you choose a "warm" rinse you get the spray rinse (one) only. The deep rinse is still cold.

Post# 833280 , Reply# 8   7/22/2015 at 12:09 (3,172 days old) by thefixer ()        

Never heard of warm rinse being "spray only". I'd like to see the wiring diagram for that one. This is a 2000 model and warm rinse should be 75 degrees plus/minus 5 degrees. Warm rinse is ATC controlled regardless if you have selected WW in the ATC portion or NON-ATC portion of the temp switch. I think you either have a faulty temp switch or faulty timer. When ATC calls for the hot valve to come on, power is via ATC to timer contact 17 to temp switch D contact to hot water valve.

Post# 833291 , Reply# 9   7/22/2015 at 14:10 (3,172 days old) by thefixer ()        

See my previous post.

In addition to the possibility of a faulty temp switch or timer, there is also the possiblity of a faulty ATC board. You should check the operation of warm ATC wash fill. In ATC warm wash fill, the hot valve is on continuously and the ATC board cycles the cold valve to maintain proper temperature. In warm rinse fill, it's the opposite, the cold valve is on continuously and the hot valve is cycled. If the ATC isn't working, you will only get cold water in rinse fill. Simple to troubleshoot this problem with multimeter and wiring diagram in hand.



Post# 833294 , Reply# 10   7/22/2015 at 14:53 (3,172 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

I love to "insta-fact" when I have no real clue, BUT, Fixer, why couldn't the timer increment for the spray rinse energize both valves, and the timer increment for the deep rinse just energize the cold valve.

Post# 833302 , Reply# 11   7/22/2015 at 16:03 (3,172 days old) by thefixer ()        

That's just not how it's implemented in these direct drive machines. I know how they work, I have tons of wiring diagrams and timer charts for them and they all "basically" work the same. They use timer contact 13 to send power to the water level switch for spray rinse the same way timer contact 10 is used to send power for wash and rinse fill. The other timer contacts that are used to ultimately select water temperature are not changed between fill and spray functions. I don't recall ever seeing any that somehow perform a warm rinse spray yet only provide a cold rinse fill. I'd like to hear of a model number or wiring diagram that proves otherwise. I know for a fact that it doesn't work that way for the washer model in question. It should most definitely have a warm rinse fill when set to warm/warm. The spray function will probably just be cold since it really isn't on long enough for the thermistor and ATC to react and turn on the hot valve.

Post# 833306 , Reply# 12   7/22/2015 at 16:27 (3,172 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Thanks for the replies

stan's profile picture
I'll try and get over today and check what's been suggested so far!
And the double check that serial number, and get back here with results.
@thefixer.. Could it still be just as simple as a bad temp switch, or are you inclined to think it the other possible problems you've mentioned? What more likely?


Post# 833311 , Reply# 13   7/22/2015 at 16:57 (3,172 days old) by thefixer ()        

Well, you can eliminate the temp switch by unplugging it, make a suitable jumper out of a piece of wire and jump the tan/black wire to the brown/red wire. If you still don't get a warm rinse fill the problem is not the temp switch.

Post# 833315 , Reply# 14   7/22/2015 at 17:35 (3,172 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Here with it now

stan's profile picture
Model is 100. 20802990
Ser is ck 3566663

So far it wash fills with warm on either ATC or non.
While filling on warm, I turned the hot valve off and fill changed to cold..
That as far as I've gone so far. Waiting for it to spray rinse on WW and see what that is. I'll runs the hot valve to the sink next to the washer just before and see what temp it sprays..
To be continued LOL


Post# 833316 , Reply# 15   7/22/2015 at 17:51 (3,172 days old) by thefixer ()        

Yep, 2000 model as indicated by model number. Serial number narrows it down to being built in August of 2000.

Post# 833328 , Reply# 16   7/22/2015 at 19:54 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
So

stan's profile picture
Making sure that hot was readily avIlable for the the first spray rinse after washing, I noticed that it didn't do one? It only did a spray rinse at the end of the rinse cycle and it was cold ?


Post# 833329 , Reply# 17   7/22/2015 at 20:07 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

That's normal as there is no spray during spin after wash cycle, there is only a spray during final spin after rinse cycle. You need to focus on why there is no warm rinse fill and not worry about spray temperature. As I said, the spray isn't likely long enough for the ATC to call for the hot valve to cycle. I would jump out the temp switch as I suggested to rule that out as the problem.

Post# 833335 , Reply# 18   7/22/2015 at 20:59 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Thanks Fixer

stan's profile picture
Ive learned a lot here. Mainly that there is a definite reason that there is a 7 position temp switch, despite what the service tech was trying to wiggle out of
I've have a 80 series different model that dose do a spray rinse after wash, and if WW is selected it sprays warm. Mines a model 2382100.
Have another friend with a older 70 series and she has HW temp option!
I'll be back with the results on this one!
Thanks again


Post# 833338 , Reply# 19   7/22/2015 at 21:17 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

Did you mean 110.23822100 ? Yes, that model shows spray rinse for both wash and rinse spin cycles but it does not have ATC which is why you get instant warm spray. In warm setting, both hot and cold valves are turned on continuously and instantly, no waiting for ATC to react. BTW, that machine was made in 2003 (introduced in 2001).

Post# 833341 , Reply# 20   7/22/2015 at 21:28 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Yes

stan's profile picture
That's the correct model.
Serial number cm5293993
Thought I bought it in 2000? Is there a difference in load capacity between the two?


Post# 833343 , Reply# 21   7/22/2015 at 21:30 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Hers looks like

stan's profile picture
It has a bigger tub than mine ?

Post# 833344 , Reply# 22   7/22/2015 at 21:38 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

Actually, it was manufactured in December of 2002 but the code in the model number indicates it's a 2003 model. The only way to know the capacity is to have the original sales literature or you have to manually measure the basket.

Cubic feet equals depth x 3.14 x radius squared divided by 1728 (measurements in inches)


Post# 833349 , Reply# 23   7/22/2015 at 22:16 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Correction! Sorry Fixer

stan's profile picture
Model number on my machine is 110. 32832100
Serial number CM5293993


Post# 833379 , Reply# 24   7/23/2015 at 06:08 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

That model number does not come up at all at the Sears parts site.

Post# 833411 , Reply# 25   7/23/2015 at 11:14 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Here a pic of my washers

stan's profile picture
Tag

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Post# 833412 , Reply# 26   7/23/2015 at 11:16 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
Sorry I

stan's profile picture
Transposed!
Im embarrassed


Post# 833415 , Reply# 27   7/23/2015 at 11:34 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

Same wiring diagram and timer chart as the first number you gave.

Post# 833419 , Reply# 28   7/23/2015 at 12:22 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

Yogitunes wrote "roughly about 2002 or so.....and without noticing, except for people like us......a WARM rinse is available, but note, it is the spray rinse of the last spin that is WARM, not the deep fill for the rinse!"

I finally did come across this in model 110.24812200 That model came out in 2002. This warm rinse spray only was used in some models but it's not like they started using it and all models after did as well. There are many models after that one that don't use it. I only see it in some models that do not use ATC or bi-metal switches. For the models that use it, you have to look for timer contact 11-B which is in line with the hot water solenoid after the temp switch. It may be listed as "hot water", "cold only" or "warm spray" on the timer charts. Very tricky! Never noticed that before. Thanks for sharing that info.

That cold rinse fill/warm spray does not apply however to the washer in question. That washer should have a full warm rinse fill.


Post# 833420 , Reply# 29   7/23/2015 at 12:31 (3,171 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Hybrid?

mrb627's profile picture
Since the machine was purchased used, it is possible that the head unit doesn't match the base of the machine. Perhaps the seller built one working machine out of two or more donors.

Malcolm


Post# 833423 , Reply# 30   7/23/2015 at 13:14 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

On the models that are affected by this limited warm rinse function, the manual actually does tell you about it, but who reads those things?

From the manual for a Whirlpool Estate model with limited warm rinse:

On models with Warm/Warm temperature selection, the warm
wash will be followed by an energy saving cold rinse followed
by warm spray rinses. This saves energy while providing the
same rinse performance


Post# 833443 , Reply# 31   7/23/2015 at 16:08 (3,171 days old) by stan (Napa CA)        
As

stan's profile picture
I mentioned above.. I've learned a lot here on this thread about Kenmore/ Whirlpool top loaders! I had thought that try all functioned pretty much the same, and until this machine, didn't know they had a ACT, or that there was a model that did a different spray rinse other than what was selected.
I think "think" being the operative term here.. That I've narrowed it down to a bad temp switch.
So I'll order the switch for her and give it a go. I'm I correct that the part # for the switch is 661.615?
Thanks fixer!


Post# 833450 , Reply# 32   7/23/2015 at 17:12 (3,171 days old) by thefixer ()        

The correct part number is 661615. What did you do to determine for sure that the temp switch is the problem?

Post# 833471 , Reply# 33   7/23/2015 at 19:53 (3,170 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
one other unique feature to some of these machines, was the timer knob that could be turned in either direction, just like the dryer...

the only advantage was there was no damage should the user accidentally try to turn it backwards....

although came in handy if you wanted to extend the wash time, rather than turn the timer completely around......or if you passed your setting...


Post# 833583 , Reply# 34   7/24/2015 at 11:32 (3,170 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        
I used to own this washer..............

Bought one brand new in 2001, and left in my townhouse when I moved in 2003. I bought the same model again for our new house.

Stan,
I hate to break this to you, BUT the warm rinse was never as warm as the wash temp. If you select manual warm / warm, or ATC warm / warm...you will NEVER, and I repeat NEVER get a warm rinse.....you will get TEPID at best!!!

Save your money, it's going to act exactly the same way it does now....Probably the third best washer I"ve owned .

1.Speed Queen AWN542
2.1991 GE Filter Flo
3.Kenmore 90 Series Direct Drive

Take care,
MIKE


Post# 833590 , Reply# 35   7/24/2015 at 12:42 (3,170 days old) by thefixer ()        

Well, there's a relatively simple way to fix that with a slight modification of wiring inside the control panel.

The reason they aren't the same is because in warm wash fill, the hot water is on continuously while the cold is cycled to satisfy the ATC. In warm rinse fill, the cold water is on continuously while the hot is cycled to satisfy the ATC. Rinse fill is ATC controlled regardless if temp switch is in WW ATC or WW NON-ATC.


Post# 833628 , Reply# 36   7/24/2015 at 16:52 (3,170 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        
Super Capacity Plus

Sears advertised these machines as 3.2 cubic foot capacity.
The ELITE model panels stated KING SIZE CAPACITY....while the Kenmore Models said Super Capacity Plus......
Hope this helps.
Mike


Post# 833630 , Reply# 37   7/24/2015 at 16:54 (3,170 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        
Triple Action Agitator

This is what Sears called your agitator!


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