Thread Number: 61294  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Maytag A606 sometimes doesn't spin without help 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 839455   9/3/2015 at 19:54 (3,155 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        

Replaced drive and pump belts.
Frequently, at the start of the spin, the large drive pulley is turning but the transmission and tub are not.
If I apply a twist to the agitator or push lightly on the transmission, the motor is able to take over, and the spin runs normally.
Is there a clutch that couples the drive pulley to the transmission?
If so, is it part of the brake assembly?




Post# 839506 , Reply# 1   9/4/2015 at 06:29 (3,155 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        
Wait for more knowledgeable analysis but---

 arbilab's profile picture
This sounds like the one-way clutch that couples the pulley to the basket when the motor reverses. My Maytags never did that so I can't say what can be done about it.

Post# 839510 , Reply# 2   9/4/2015 at 07:15 (3,155 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Sluggish Spinning MT Washer

 combo52's profile picture

Hi, be sure that the pump belt is very loose, if it is even slightly tightened the washer will not spin or agitate well. Also be sure the motor carriage is free to slide easily.

 

Beyond these items you may have a more serious problem with the top spin bearing and water seal assembly.
Post# 839579 , Reply# 3   9/4/2015 at 16:33 (3,154 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        

Thanks for the comments.

I'll check the pump belt for tightness. Could substitute the old pump belt or even try it without a pump belt to check the effect.

Is the clutch intended to slip while the tub is getting up to speed, or does it just lock the tub to the pulley, like a ratchet? It behaves like it's slipping, since it's applying almost enough torque to the tub to get it going.

Dave

Post# 839583 , Reply# 4   9/4/2015 at 17:32 (3,154 days old) by Kenmore71 (Minneapolis, MN)        

kenmore71's profile picture
Maytag washers do not have a spin clutch, per se. They have a special drive belt that is designed to slip during the spin cycle and this provides the necessary clutch action.

One thing not mentioned above that can also be an issue is motor carriage springs that, over the years, have given up some of their tension. This will affect how well the machine spins. The replacement of these springs along with new motor carriages glides and proper lubrication fix many a Maytag spin issue.

John's (combo52) comments are also possible, but I would check the motor carriage springs and glides first.

Post# 839651 , Reply# 5   9/5/2015 at 06:06 (3,154 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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The one-way clutch is only a 'clutch' in the sense it engages 100% in one direction and disengages ~100% in the other. Maytag belt and sliding motor provide the 'slip' as the tub comes up to speed. Cleaning the slider trolley/replacing the springs often restores sluggish spin but in those cases the large pulley would be spinning at the same (sluggish) speed as the basket. Yours spins but doesn't drive anything until you jigger it.

Post# 839812 , Reply# 6   9/6/2015 at 06:37 (3,153 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        

Yes, as Arbilab says, the motor is running, the large drive pulley is turning, but the transmission and tub are not moving at all until I give it light boost.

I don't see any belt slipping at the large pulley. (The old belt did slip at the large pulley.) There might be some slipping at the motor pulley, but the large pulley is turning at what looks like a normal speed.

But even if the speed of the pulley is too low, wouldn't the transmission and tub turn with it?

So, what's strange is that the one-way clutch that should be either "on" or "off" seems to be transmitting torque to the transmission and tub, but usually not enough torque. It doesn't take much extra torque to get it going, and sometimes the tub will start on its own. Once it starts moving, the spin appears to be normal.

Is the clutch like the ratchet in a socket wrench handle? Or does it involve some kind of friction coupling that could wear and slip?

Where is the clutch located? Is it part of the brake assembly?

Thanks very much for your comments and ideas.

Dave

Post# 839818 , Reply# 7   9/6/2015 at 08:21 (3,153 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Non spinning MT washer

 combo52's profile picture
There is no clutch in this washer. If you have to give it a push to get it going and you are sure the belts are adjusted property you probably have a tight top transmission bearing or other unusual problem in the drive line that will require major dissambly to fix.

Post# 839885 , Reply# 8   9/6/2015 at 20:21 (3,152 days old) by FEster (Lafayette La USA)        
Motor slides and belts is the first place I check.

 I've scored three perfectly good Maytags with nothing more wrong than trash jamming the slides. One jammed tight and couldn't get started without tripping the overload. The others wouldn't get tight enough and cooked a spot on the belt if allowed to run. One previous owner got very indignant when I told him how easy a fix it was, insinuating that I was lying because "he knew the motor was burnt". He smelled the belt I'm guessing. That machine is now my daily driver. That and the lid switch are the most common reasons people junk a maytag.

Post# 839901 , Reply# 9   9/6/2015 at 23:46 (3,152 days old) by Realvanman (Southern California)        
But the large pulley is turning

Even though the drum is not.

Wouldn't that mean that something is wrong between the large pulley and the drum? Like a failed overrunning clutch?

Keith

Post# 839941 , Reply# 10   9/7/2015 at 05:16 (3,152 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Yes a one-way/overrun clutch is like a ratchet in function. But imagine a ratchet spinning around 600RPM. Too noisy, too much wear. There are a couple other ways to do that. One is wrapping a spring around a shaft with one end connected to the pulley. When turned in the direction that tightens the coil, engages the shaft. Direction that loosens the coil disengages.

Yes they are subject to wear and eventual failure. Best I can tell they're almost never the first thing to quit in a legacy Maytag. I ran one until the motor quit but besides belts nothing else. Never having to service one, don't know the exact topology.

Post# 839952 , Reply# 11   9/7/2015 at 06:44 (3,152 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Non Spinning MT Washer

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If the large center pulley is turning fine and the water is pumping out [ this means the motor is spinning the correct direction for the washer to spin ]  something is broken in the transmission or drive-line, if it is not spinning it would be agitating even in reverse-spin direction.
Post# 839954 , Reply# 12   9/7/2015 at 06:50 (3,152 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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I'm with John, tight bearings, or transmission woes.
Post# 840236 , Reply# 13   9/8/2015 at 11:48 (3,151 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        
Location of clutch?

 I really appreciate all the great comments!

I ran a small load last night. The first spin required a little boost to get it going. The second spin started on its own. In both cases the spin got up to high speed quickly, in about a minute. (I think it's supposed to take about 2 minutes, but that probably applies to a heavier load.)

The motor is always rotating the right direction for spin. The large pulley turns at a good speed with no evidence of belt slipping, at the large pulley at least. No belt squeal. It appears that whatever couples the pulley to the drum/transmission is slipping, but once things start moving, there's enough torque to get up to speed quickly.

Is the coupling/clutch part of the brake assembly? It looks the brake assembly isn't too big a deal to replace.

We'll be running several loads over the next couple of days. I'll see if any other evidence shows up.

Thanks again,
Dave

Post# 840279 , Reply# 14   9/8/2015 at 17:34 (3,150 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        

After looking again at the comments, I have a basic question:

Suppose the mechanism that couples the large pulley to the tub/transmission is working perfectly. If something is creating a drag on the tub during spin, such as clothes jammed between the inner and outer tub, would that always show up as an overload on the motor and/or drive belt?

Or is there a limit to the torque provided by the mechanism coupling the pulley and tub/transmission, and if the drag is too high the coupling could slip?

Thanks,
Dave



Post# 840283 , Reply# 15   9/8/2015 at 17:58 (3,150 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
There is no pulley/tub/transmission coupler to slip. The *belt* slips as a clutch, typically at the motor pulley.  A piece of clothing gotten out between the basket and tub can cause drag.

Post# 840333 , Reply# 16   9/9/2015 at 00:05 (3,150 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Just my 2 cents, the OP indicates he can see the large pulley turning but the tub is not.  Which seems impossible to me unless somehow the large pulley is loose on the shaft.  A few years ago I had to put my oldest Maytag on the curb, the transmission was totally locked up.   Will your Maytag agitate?-A
Post# 840412 , Reply# 17   9/9/2015 at 12:01 (3,150 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        

I'm inclined to agree with combo52 and goatfarmer that something is broken in the transmission or driveline. There must be some mechanism that couples the drive pulley to the tub in spin, and it's not quite doing its job. That mechanism must also uncouple during agitate. I suppose the mechanism is located in the transmission.

The funny thing is that there still is some degree of coupling, in that sometimes spin will start on its own, or at least it will spin (and spin normally) with a little push. I would have expected if the coupling mechanism is broken, there would be no torque at all applied to the tub in spin.

The loose pulley theory suggested by alr2903 could also explain what I'm seeing, but it can't be completely loose, given that torque is transmitted. Spin, once it starts, appears normal, and agitate also appears normal.

I don't see how incorrect belt tension could cause the problem. In spin, I believe the tub and pulley should be locked together and anything else would be abnormal.

As always, many thanks to the commenters!
Dave



Post# 840530 , Reply# 18   9/10/2015 at 06:01 (3,149 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
I tried to post Dave's conclusion yesterday when the site bombed around 6am.

SOMEthing, whatever it's called and whereever it's located, used to couple the pulley to the tub in the spin direction. That something has reached its end of useful life.

All we're missing now is what/where that something is and what's involved renewing it. SOMEbody here definitely knows. It may not have come to their attention yet.

Post# 840732 , Reply# 19   9/11/2015 at 12:06 (3,148 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        
Service manuals or drawings

 I think Arbilab has summed it up well.

One other culprit might be excessive drag in the system, such as a failing bearing, brake not fully releasing, clothes stuck between the inner and outer tubs, etc. But it appears that our mystery coupling, if it's functioning properly, is either fully "on" or "off", and doesn't slip when subjected to extra load. So we're back to a problem in the coupling.

Does anyone know where I could find a service manual for the A606 (or similar, like A608), or maybe drawings that show how the innards work? Usually you can find just about anything on the internet, but these seem be an exception. The best I've done so far is a parts list with illustrations (actually for an A608).

Thanks again,
Dave

Post# 840758 , Reply# 20   9/11/2015 at 15:23 (3,147 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
our friend Brian gave us a great insight into rebuilding a transmission, this may help you in determining inside as to what may not be functioning....

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK
Post# 841169 , Reply# 21   9/14/2015 at 11:53 (3,145 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        
Brian's rebuild

 Wow, that's an amazing job Brian has done!
However, for some reason, I'm not seeing his photos. I just see the pic of the matching washer and dryer on each post. Is there a link or such that I'm not seeing?

Post# 869976 , Reply# 22   3/1/2016 at 11:57 (2,975 days old) by oldwidget (Connecticut)        
Update after 5+ months

 The washer has been in regular service and the failures to start spinning without help have gradually become less frequent. It now seems that the failures no longer occur. (Insert cautious optimism here.) I'll re-post if anything changes.


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