Thread Number: 62164  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
modern washers and dryers rant
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Post# 847678   10/26/2015 at 09:50 (1,062 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        

Hello everybody. I am sick of the so called HE washers and dryers. They mold and mildew quickly! They will shake out of control and destroy themselves! They will ruin your clothes! The dryers don't dry! They are nothing more than irons with tumblers! LG and Samsung have no business making washers and dryers! Forget washing smelly sweaty gym clothes! They are the worst washers and dryers I have ever seen! If you want a real washer and dryer get a speed queen!

Post# 847681 , Reply# 1   10/26/2015 at 09:53 (1,062 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Stupid electronics!

The electronics will fail! They use so little water to clean anything! Who owns them? China?

Post# 847684 , Reply# 2   10/26/2015 at 10:16 (1,062 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
HE washers...

Hehe,will se what happens when I have my whirlpool cabrio fixed-it's an HE washplate type top load that many reviews saw is a pretty bad washer :) some say it is great though... will see once repair done and it is in use :)

Post# 847686 , Reply# 3   10/26/2015 at 10:52 (1,062 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

Psssssttttt! Go Vintage...



-- Dave

Post# 847688 , Reply# 4   10/26/2015 at 11:00 (1,062 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I completely agree!

I absolutely agree with you! LG and Samsung have no business making washers and dryers!

Post# 847733 , Reply# 5   10/26/2015 at 16:31 (1,061 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
I just bought a nice near mint set of GE Filter Flo's mostly because I've always wanted them! I have to agree that a lot of new washers have questionable reliability. Having used my Kenmore 28102 (Cabrio) for several months, I can def attest to it's cleaning performance. Granted not all of the HE's clean as well as this one...but I have no complaints and no regrets in buying it. There are plenty of older appliances with electronics that continue to chug along for years, but I get leary of them myself. That's why I picked the Hydrowave, because it has minimal electronics.

Unfortunately like I've said before, most people don't want an old appliance. Really it's been like that for decades. Housewives in the 1970's didn't want to use a washer from the 50's...they wanted a nice new Lady Kenmore ;-) Products have changed but consumer buying habits really haven't.

Post# 847746 , Reply# 6   10/26/2015 at 17:01 (1,061 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
lg and samsung

LG and Samsung have no business making washers and dryers! They fail from a few months to a few years! They will always destroy themselves! They are the worst washers and dryers I have ever seen!

Post# 847870 , Reply# 7   10/27/2015 at 02:34 (1,061 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Hey GELaundry4ever,

I wish I could be more diplomatic here, but you're basically repeating the same rant over and over again without really proposing any solutions. It's not even all that constructive.

I understand that HE washing is still in its infancy and the engineers are chewing on some serious issues as a result of consumer complaints.

So, let's stand back a bit and be more constructive, shall we?

Regarding the mold and mildew issue. A lot of this is due to user error. Mainly a front loading issue, Americans and Canadians have always traditionally been used to using top loaders, so they don't know to leave the door open on a front loader. Of course that causes a humid environment which leads to mold.

So, what did the engineers do to combat it? Well, We have Affresh for starters. We also have machine cleaning cycles explicitly designed to combat issues with this. (Not to mention people who seem to wash in cold water all the time and use lots of fabric softener, a recipie for disaster.)

Whirlpool introduced a machine smart enough to vent itself to dry itself out, so it doesn't have the issues with mold and mildew that neglected front loaders have. Heck, in some cases, it can even dry clothing that doesn't have a lot of moisture!

So, the engineers know that mold and mildew are problems and I can clearly see that they are taking steps to work towards making it less of an issue.

Onto your next point about them shaking out of control and destroying themselves. It did kind of miff me off that LG and Samsung did release rather expensive top loading HE machines that had a habit of spin sploding. In youtube videos where we see damaged machines, we can clearly see that the user was using a completely inappropriate cycle and spin speed for the load they were trying to do.

I'm now seeing machines with stickers on them warning against washing anything which can hold water, like rubber sheets and other such products. So, is it the fault of the manufacturer if the user doesn't know how to use the machine? Perhaps. Obviously, the machines should have some kind of safety system to prevent them from spin 'sploding. This could be easily implemented. I'm sure a class action lawsuit already has been filed.

More to the point, modern HE machines, especially ones from GE and Whirlpool don't really have spin sploding issues, which tells me that their engineers figured it out, while LG and Samsung are struggling with it. (LG has already redesigned their suspension system to make them less prone to it, so kudos to them!)

Will they ruin your clothes? Well, it all depends on the model and the user. There have been a few centre post HE style machines on the market that don't use enough water and have been known to damage fabrics. Then again, there have been a lot of conventional "Deep fill" top loaders which have also done the same. (i.e. Shredmores .. Heh.) Heck, my old 2004-era GE top loader would occasionally destroy or rip a comforter slip because I didn't select the right speed.

It does come down to user education and knowing their machine and knowing what settings to use. If someone uses the "Regular" cycle with delicate clothes, they deserve everything they get. If anything, washplate machines are easier on clothing than conventional agitator machines, especially when being used in a Non-HE fashion.

As for the Dryers not drying, I can attest differently. Unless you can cite proof, I can legitimately say that drying my comforter in a friends high capacity dryer actually cooked it because I was dumb enough to use the "Extra High" heat setting instead of something more appropriate. So, I don't believe this for a second.

I think that LG and Samsung have every right to continue to make appliances, but they are learning from their mistakes and are only improving as a result. Seeing them frequently change their product lineup and introduce different designs is a sign that they are ushering in improvements into their new models.

Take into contrast GE themselves, who had the same Filter-Flo design from 1964 right through to 1994. The design hadn't really changed much over that time. Samsung and LG have come further in 10 years than GE did in 30 years. (You did know that there's no such thing as a Microprocessor controlled Filter-Flo, right? GE didn't even have Microprocessor controlled machines until about 1996!)

Now you keep repeating that LG and Samsung are the worst washers and dryers you have ever seen, but are they the worst washers and dryers you have ever USED? Big difference. I have used a friends LG washer and dryer on occasion and they work just fine. I honestly don't think you have a right to form an opinion about them until you've actually done a few cycles with your own clothing. Heck, I don't either. (I have seen videos of the wash action, so I can form an opinion about that. I personally have used an LG front loader and thought it did a good job. :-) )

Actually, I'm kind of intrigued by LG's Waveforce system. I think it's kind of neat. Neat to watch and neat in concept as to how it works.

Also, in your second posts, "The electronics will fail!" .. Well, that's for time to tell. Maybe they'll last for 30 years or maybe they'll only last for five. So far a lot of people I know who own LG machines have had them for upwards of ten years without problems. All modern machines today have electronics in them, even my Huebsch washer. (My dryer doesn't, but the timer failed after 3 years, go figure.)

Lastly, "Who owns them? China?" is actually bordering on being a racist statement. Maybe some of the parts are manufactured in China, but Samsung and LG are both Korean companies and most of the components, from my understanding are manufactured in Korea, then shipped over here.

In all honesty, you can rail against LG and Samsung all you want, but in reality, what matters more is that you speak with your wallet. I'm sure there are GE and Whirlpool products which are inferior to Samsung and LG products... and vice versa!

So, while I might cause a flamewar by saying these things, I apologize if I do, the reality of it all is to stand back and stop focusing on the failures of these machines but rather see how the engineers refined them to improve on them.

I think your problem isn't so much with LG and Samsung but rather with just HE washing in general. GE and Whirlpool have come out with some absolute pieces of JUNK which don't clean clothing all that well at all because of the whole HE thing.

But again, the engineers are learning what works and what doesn't. They are listening to buyers and they know that buyers want the option for a deep water wash. In fact, I'm seeing it on more and more machines. GE and Whirlpool most noticeably. In fact, they're touting it as a "feature" when it was something we just all took for granted.

In saying that, buy one of these machines you hate so much, (Used) pit it against a conventional top loader and compare the two. Post the results in this channel instead of just ranting about something that doesn't have any substance. Then sell the machine later if you don't want it. (Or give it away to a charity.)

So, being the washer/dryer fetishists we are, (No, that's not sexual, look it up) we should be looking at the finer aspects of the machine rather than dismissing it. LG's spin splode? Well, buy a used machine and put it on your lawn and make it spin splode. :-) LG/Samsungs don't dry? Prove it. They don't clean? Put some really nasty laundry in the machines and see how they fare, making sure to make a point of enjoying the washing action. (Especially that Waveforce action.. wowwweee!)

I don't know if the mods will delete this post, but this is my rant to yours!

Post# 847884 , Reply# 8   10/27/2015 at 06:46 (1,061 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Well stated Bud! As much research as I've done in the last year since I really got into washing machines again, I've determined that most of the problem is user error. Honestly right now on the market I think most any machine is good...the bugs have been worked out of a lot of machines...really even in the last several months. WP's new HE impeller and HE agitator models really do look good and many improvements have come with them. Now GE's new machines too...fantastic from what I can see (I haven't tried them).

Biggest issue is getting people to understand how they work and reading the instructions. Unfortunately they days of when every machine basically did the same thing, are gone. Most of the people buying new machines now have been using the same type forever. Laundry isn't "fun" for them like it is for us here. They don't want to spend an hour reading the owners manual or understanding how their machine works. They just want to throw ALL their laundry in one load and have it come out sparkling clean. Really what they want is a 10 cu ft Speed Queen...LOL.

Post# 847885 , Reply# 9   10/27/2015 at 06:54 (1,061 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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Ugh. Please don't use (bordering) 'racist' as an economic argument. The race which designs and builds appliances is the HUMAN race.

They/we do so today under a different set of economic imperatives than in the 'vintage' days. To an aficionado, the results can vary from mildly disappointing to total POS.

Trust me. I worked for Dell in the transition days between 'make it bulletproof' to 'make it fail as shortly after warranty as possible'. I detest this economic philosophy as much as anyone but for the foreseeable future it's here to stay.

I'd say it IS possible to 'do more with less' but that's not going to be possible as long as the first corner they cut is engineering. Yes, raw graduates are cheap to hire. But as anyone knows who has worked around them, it takes more supervision to get usable work out of them than it would have taken to pay someone who knows what they're doing in the first place. And I feel VERY safe saying that the sharpest engineering graduates do NOT go into the appliance business any more than the sharpest medical graduates go to work for the VA.

Skipping a great deal of dissertation, you can't expect results comparable to vintage from a Walmart economy.

Post# 847894 , Reply# 10   10/27/2015 at 08:52 (1,061 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
Words of Wisdom

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Thank You Qualin!
I 2nd everything you said.

I hate LG and Samsung too. I think their machines are stupid and I don't like them encroaching on the US market. But that's my issue. My aunts have an LG laundry pair, and they work perfectly fine.

Word of the wise to Mr. GELaundryForever.
If you wan't to convince anyone in an argument, refrain from using words like "always" and "worst/best" and "ever."
Unless you're talking to the Trump/Carson crowd, you've totally lost people you're trying to persuade without good reasons and evidence.

Post# 847896 , Reply# 11   10/27/2015 at 09:09 (1,061 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
Housewives & Buying Habits, Post 847733 Reply #5:

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Like what was stated there, no housewife in the '80's would want a machine stuck in the '60's Peace Sign, 'Have A Nice Day', 'Hell No We Won't Go!' stickers and all!


But likewise, buying habits bought and brought a lot of welcome features to many a happy home--even with or without the necessary/unnecessary repairs...!


It is a tradition that needs to continue--and there should never be a deviation in quality or safety standards no matter where in the globe a product is built, used or bought...


Long Live!



-- Dave

Post# 847898 , Reply# 12   10/27/2015 at 09:18 (1,061 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Thanks Dave! ;-) It's weird how perceptions change (or really don't) over the years. I was born in the mid 70's and have only vague recollection of our life then. I do remember my mother LOVED Whirlpool appliances...but they weren't WP's from the 60's , they were brand new. Even as an older kid in the 80's I honestly can say I don't ever remember seeing an "old" washer anywhere. We lived in my grandmother's house and she had a new set of Kenmore's. Even back then the old folks complained about how awful new things were...and now we are saying how wonderful those "new" old things are in comparison to what we have now. LOL. It's just human nature I think...we have no say in how things are designed so we complain when something new comes out and it's not as good as what we had before. I don't see that changing.

Post# 847913 , Reply# 13   10/27/2015 at 10:41 (1,061 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
even if they work...

Even if they work, it makes no difference. Lg and Samsung need to stay out of it. HE washers don't clean! People have to run them thousands of times! HE dryers don't dry! They are tumbling irons! You have to run them thousands of times just to get clothes dry! What is most shocking is that my mom/\'s lg washer and matching dryer is 8 years old and going strong! But still! LG and Samsung need to stay away from washers and dryers and go back to electronics! That's all they're good for! Leave the washers and dryers to GE Whirlpool, Maytag, Speed Queen, and everybody else who know how to make washers and dryers properly, especially Speed queen! Speed Queen has very little to 0 complaints!

Post# 847917 , Reply# 14   10/27/2015 at 11:28 (1,061 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
aaaaand here's where you lose all credibilty from me:

johnb300m's profile picture
"What is most shocking is that my mom/\'s lg washer and matching dryer is 8 years old and going strong! But still! LG and Samsung need to stay away from washers and dryers and go back to electronics!"

Post# 847919 , Reply# 15   10/27/2015 at 11:49 (1,061 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

GELaundry4ever: It makes absolutely no matter to me if you dislike HE laundry equipment and particular brands.

I have only this to say: You are henceforth limited to one exclamation point per post.

Thank you.

Post# 847924 , Reply# 16   10/27/2015 at 12:27 (1,061 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Just my rant...

I am just ranting because it is true. It is stupid to put steam in a dryer! They make steam on their own! Dryers should dry, not iron!

Post# 847929 , Reply# 17   10/27/2015 at 12:52 (1,060 days old) by yoblount (TX)        

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"Just my rant..."

You are completely entitled to your opinions.

I, myself, love my HE washers and dryers. I have a Kenmore branded LG front loader and Samsung front loader w/ matching dryer. Love them both! This dryer is by far the best dryer I have ever owned.

My mother loves her Whirlpool Cabrio. It's going on 8-9 years old and never damaged any clothing. Always produces great results despite some of her questionable laundry habits. Only repair to this machine was replacement suspension rods last month because they were becoming loud.

New designs and engineering that are able to accomplish the job with fewer resources is a good thing in my book!

Post# 847931 , Reply# 18   10/27/2015 at 13:31 (1,060 days old) by mr_b ()        

It is a good thing that they don't employ the same engineering quality principals used in the development of washing machines to the development of aircraft and automobiles.

Post# 847935 , Reply# 19   10/27/2015 at 14:14 (1,060 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
'corse they don't...

No lives depend on the working or failing of washers, and they don't cost several tens of thousands of dollars, or even a few million...

Post# 847945 , Reply# 20   10/27/2015 at 15:09 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
washing quality

HE washers clean better? Yeah right! What do your clothes get washed in? Diarrhea? with all that leftover sludge!

Post# 847947 , Reply# 21   10/27/2015 at 15:16 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
build quality

The tubs are flimsy! The dispensers are cheap! There is no real motor - just a toy ones! They will rust out quickly! That is why they are the worst I have ever seen! They are just high tech toys! That's just what they are!

Post# 847949 , Reply# 22   10/27/2015 at 15:18 (1,060 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

Well, if you wash your laundry in that pure sludge (which is made up of probably less then 5% matter related to the human digestion system), you sure won't get clean clothes.

If you however use a machine correctly, you won't have to worry about sludge, dirt, mold, etc. and so forth...

Post# 847950 , Reply# 23   10/27/2015 at 15:22 (1,060 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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This post is quite entertaining! ;-)

Post# 847951 , Reply# 24   10/27/2015 at 15:22 (1,060 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Not fast enough to respond...

Cheap: maybe. But that is it: They are cheap, thus they are allowed to be cheap.
You know what: They HAVE dispensers. That is something they have ahead of old washers.
Toy motors: Well, you never even seen or thought about what a direct drive inverter motor can do. These things have power, and a way higher torque then some other traditional motors.

Post# 847962 , Reply# 25   10/27/2015 at 16:12 (1,060 days old) by yoblount (TX)        
Plastic tubs

yoblount's profile picture
I suppose one good thing about most modern washing machines using plastic outer tubs is not having to worry about them rusting out. No? :)

Post# 847963 , Reply# 26   10/27/2015 at 16:12 (1,060 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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GEE....the same could be said for some people.....

loud, obnoxious, rude, belligerent, opinionated, ain't worth a damn......

sort of alike a slinky, not good for much, yet brings a smile to your face to see one tumble down a flight of stairs...

thousands of machines built, barely 3 or 4 with issues on youtube.......doesn't change my mind from owning one...

besides, if they truly didn't work, wouldn't they all be returned!....

reason 673 as to why some people should never reproduce!....

Post# 847965 , Reply# 27   10/27/2015 at 16:26 (1,060 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

Quite zynical, but still enjoyable. Good job Martin!

Funny enough, I just had my mind walk around "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" and the Syrius Cybernetic Cooperation.
Some machines just never get their heads around humans.
And vise versa.

Post# 847972 , Reply# 28   10/27/2015 at 17:10 (1,060 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I think I've heard enough about HE washers ALL being pieces of junk, about "how dare GE stop making the FilterFlo, who do they think they are?, and about Whirlpool's dishwasher motors sounding like a GE Potscrubber to last me more than a life time. I feel like the half the threads on the forum have been those topics over the past few months. I'm all for enthusiasm and passion, but there's only so far a subject, or subjects, can go.

Just remember that for every new post created, an old one falls off, deleting what could be valuable information that has been covered in the past, all to create a separate rant about something that could have been added to an existing post.

Post# 847973 , Reply# 29   10/27/2015 at 17:24 (1,060 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I have to disagree with you. I have an LG made front load washer and dryer and like them very much. I replaced my 1995 model Maytag set with them and they are very nice. The do an excellent job cleaning and rinsing and hold a huge load of clothes or a king size feather comforter, which is why I bought it in the first place. It does take longer to do it's job, but spins the clothing out nearly dry and with no adverse effects to the clothing and no wear or lint. I liked my Maytag set, they were still the "real" Maytags, but these machines are great! I did buy the service contract with them, just in case. Time will tell I guess, but I like them very much so far. The washer will rinse up to 3 times extra for skin sensitive to soap and it has a "steam treat" setting that gets very hot. I consider it a step into the future.

Post# 847974 , Reply# 30   10/27/2015 at 17:29 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
The difference between real front loaders and HE

If you go to a Laundromat, the front loading washers fill up with water and wash your clothes like they should've been done! If you watch Harley's hangups modern washers and dryers, you will know what I'm talking about.


Post# 847975 , Reply# 31   10/27/2015 at 17:32 (1,060 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

I couldn't have agreed more. Our FL is now a year old and there are no smells or mold growing anywhere.

Post# 847977 , Reply# 32   10/27/2015 at 17:57 (1,060 days old) by aladude ()        

Adding nothing to the discussion since you seem to have your fingers firmly in your ears but I think I'll contribute anyway. Understand that we've been seeing quality appliances with electronic controls for decades now. There's actually a Maytag electronic stack from the 80s in my post history whose design is very dear to my heart. It's pretty unproductive of you to continue spamming the same posts over and over again; it doesn't contribute anything to the community but noise. Same goes for resurrecting archived threads only to add the same aforementioned replies. Maybe you should step back and take a breather.

Post# 847978 , Reply# 33   10/27/2015 at 17:57 (1,060 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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That said, I'll input on the subject what I've said before in the recent past...

I used to be against HE washers, as well as "resource-saving" dishwashers, for the longest time. I loved the machines I had grown up with, the Whirlpool PowerClean, the Maytag-Voyager I have, the KitchenAid Superba top loader from my childhood, the Lady Kenmore my grandmother had, etc. I couldn't bear the thought of those machines being altered to use less water and to work differently, because I felt there was no way they could get any better. I had an opinion against new machines and new technology because of what I had heard and what I had seen through videos, most of them being users that were unhappy with the machines. So of course, the worst was brought out. We all know that the first people to review a product are the ones unhappy with it, and we all know that the majority of our society couldn't care less about how their clothes or dishes are washed, so they're not likely to post a video of the machine properly working the way it was intended. That's why searching YouTube for videos of these machines is a bit of a chore, because you have to filter through the repair videos, and videos of the machines malfunctioning and hearing commentary from the user about what a "piece of crap" it is. It is those videos that I can no longer take seriously, because upon paying close attention you can usually deduce that it was user error or neglect in the first place, more often than an actual design flaw.

Anyway, moving on.. I had no right to have the opinion I had against newer machines because I had never taken the chance to experience them or learn about them. That changed just less than a year ago when my Maytag Bravos XL was brought into my home. Long story short, the one HE washer design that intrigued me and impressed me from what I had learned about it, through its design and engineering history, was Whirlpool's Oasis model, also known through its cousin Fisher&Paykel SmartDrive. A chance came up for me to buy a new machine, so I took the plunge. First few days was a learning curve, but almost a year later, I wouldn't go back to a normal top-loading washer for anything in the world. Despite the lower water levels this machine uses, I've had no reservations to pile clothes in to the brim of the basket, as filthy as they can be, and with no problem whatsoever (so long as the clothes are loosely piled around the basket, with just enough of a tiny "donut-hole" in the middle so that nothing will spread across the washplate during the presoaking spins) every load I've washed has been cleaner and more thoroughly rinsed than it would in my traditional Whirlpool. More so, the machine does an excellent job rolling over even the largest of loads when instructions are followed on loading, and the load is so nearly dry because of the spin speed that drying time is cut nearly in half. In all honesty, there's no more effort that has to be put into the process of doing laundry than there was with "traditional" machines, except this machine, to me, is much more fun to watch. I plan to keep this washer until it practically crumbles into the floor. Yes, there is a lot more plastic in machines these days than in decades before, and yes, I do feel there could be an improvement in the build quality of certain components, but overall I've fallen in love with the washer, and it has renewed a desire to try new technology and machines again, so much so that I actually would love to have a new Whirlpool or KitchenAid dishwasher, and even finally bought a brand new car that is designed and built better than the previous one I had that I was convinced couldn't be beat.

Yes, there are HE washing machines, dishwashers, dryers, etc., that have not done well. For example, despite their cosmetic similarities, the VMW version of the Whirlpool Cabrio and its Maytag and Kenmore clones is VASTLY different than the true Oasis design like my Maytag and @joeypete's Kenmore. The VMW's didn't fare as well, specifically from the lack of a recirculation pump and the lack of the direct drive inverter motor. TRUST ME, I'd choose the "toy" inverter motor, as you called it, over any other. I've been infinitely impressed at the sheer amount of torque and power this thing has without the need for gears or pulleys. The point is, there will always be the good and there will always be the bad. You can't round up an entire category of products into one pile and dismiss them as junk. It is perfectly fine to have passion and enthusiasm with opinions, and in my own opinion it's preferred because it makes debates here quite interesting, and I've learned so much myself in the time I've been here. But don't try to start these bashfests about things without at least trying them yourself or listening to others that have, and bring something more to the table than repeating rants that are nothing but vague insults and accusations that are not confirmed or factual.

Post# 847981 , Reply# 34   10/27/2015 at 18:00 (1,060 days old) by mjg0619 (Scranton, Pennsylvania)        

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To throw in my two cents, I personally prefer doing my laundry "old school". That is precisely why there is a Newton Maytag washing machine sitting in my laundry room.

With that being said, if I did not have access to that Maytag when the DD Whirlpool decided to take a dump, I would have strongly considered an LG front loader. I've had the opportunity to play with several different brands of HE washer through local friends and relatives and the LG machines, by far, are my favorite HE machines.

We are ALL entitled to our own opinion. However, we are NOT entitled to rant, rave, carry on like an infant, insult people or their preferences of laundry equipment.

I think it's high time certain people on this forum started to act their age instead of their shoe size!

Post# 847984 , Reply# 35   10/27/2015 at 18:04 (1,060 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        
GE's rant

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Due to a remodel I replaced my Duet stacked washer and dryer with stacked LG. The old Duet pair went a good home and are happily being used after I used them for about 10 years. The new LG are great machines. While I do not typically use cold wash I did experiment with it due to the multi motion capabilities of the direct drive motor. I was rather impressed with what the cold wash managed to do. The washer has a good selection of options and I use all of them.The boost heat sanitary is great for the cat beds and towels especially beach towels. The high speed spin really reduces dryer time. The dryer is gas and is fast. I have never had a load 'over dry'. The dryer runs a check to make sure that the vent is clear before it starts. A really innovative safety feature. The washer has a magnet catch option to keep the door slightly open when not in use. Did not have any kind of mold, odors, etc. with the Duet and have not had any with the LG. All in all, the innovation from virtually all of the front load manufacturers is to be praised. I have not desire to go back to the wash the whites first in the wringer and then progressively dirtier laundry that my Grandmother did with her Thor nor to the huge water users top loaders (other than at a WashIn). I have been using front load washers for over 20+ years and have no complaints. Also, there is no way I could use a reasonably sized top load in my kitchen laundry space. I did have an apartment size Kenmore top load with its matching 120V dryer mounted on a stand over it for a period of time but in the same space I now have large extremely capable and flexible LG machines. I do not find any problems with the capabilities or engineering of my LG machines.

Post# 847986 , Reply# 36   10/27/2015 at 18:19 (1,060 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        
Syrius Cybernetic Cooperation...

... made the elevators that led the Great Elevator Strike, right? Just last night I read something that made me think of Milliways Restaurant:-)

I agree with JoeyPete: "They don't want to spend an hour reading the owners manual or understanding how their machine works. They just want to throw ALL their laundry in one load and have it come out sparkling clean." However, I'd add that they want that to happen regardless of cycle and water temp settings. They are too stupid and/or intellectually lazy to realize that their choices and actions affect the outcome. I'm willing to bet that these are the same people whose car windows fog up because they have the HVAC controls set wrong given the weather and number of people in the car.

That said, manufacturers are hardly innocent victims struggling to do their best.
3 examples come to mind. No worries; I'll not repeat the accompanying rants;-)

1. I have difficulty believing that GE was unaware of the fact that their TL ultra-HE machines of 2010/11 did not actually clean clothes.

2. I've noticed that some manufacturers have taken to labelling cycles with verbiage I find cryptic and uninformative such as "active", "sports", "casual", etc. What is the point of doing this?

3. Dumbing down temps. If user washes something that needs hot water, correctly selects a cycle that claims to provide hot water but actually gives warm, it is NOT user error when the item does not get clean.

As for machines not being returned when they didn't work. I can't speak to that as I didn't have that option when I was saddled with an example of #1 from above. However, I "solved" the problem by washing literally everything twice. Both times with the extra rinse. First time with detergent, second time with nothing but a splash of vinegar in the wash cycle.

Just a personal opinion for clarity: Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that at least some manufacturers are slapping the label "HE" onto practically every washer so that label has kind of stopped saying anything. It might be helpful if you said specifically what washers you're talking about when you say "HE".


Post# 847987 , Reply# 37   10/27/2015 at 18:21 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Still not convinced?

Still not convinced? Here is another video for more proof.


Post# 847988 , Reply# 38   10/27/2015 at 18:29 (1,060 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
why do my sister in law wents that kind of washer

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why do my sister in law wents that particular kind of washer this i do not know they have a perfectly good direct drive 1993 kenmore washer that they could ask a tech to restore for them repaint change the agitator for an agitator with fabric sofner dispenser here is a pic of there actual washer and dryer its not the matchiong dryer to there washer but it do a better job than these cheap models that they would went to return and exchange before the first use sigh

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Post# 847989 , Reply# 39   10/27/2015 at 18:31 (1,060 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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That video, along with many of your posts, have not convinced me nor anyone here of anything, simply because there is still nothing to prove the insults and accusations you make about the broad subject of "HE" appliances. The person in that video went to an appliance store and took video of opening the lids. Okay. I can do that right now at the Lowe's five minutes away. But does that tell me how the machine will perform? Does that show me how the machine works? Can I take bags of my dirtiest laundry into Home Depot and wash it in the floor models? No, no, and no I cannot.

Again, everyone here is entitled to opinions, and what's more, we LOVE to have intelligent debates on the hows and whys of new machines vs. old machines and everything in between. What we DON'T love however, are the frequent threads being created with no intent but to slander against products without having personal experience with them and then insult anyone who has a different opinion and completely ignoring everyone else's input in the process. I, for one, am growing tired of it saturating the thread list.

Post# 848000 , Reply# 40   10/27/2015 at 19:11 (1,060 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I partly disagree with OP

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I can only attest to longevity of my HE FL washer (duet) which is going on 11 yrs old, but a lot of the new HE washers do clean well. I will admit I'm not a fan of the TL HE washers, even though they do look super cool! As for the longevity I'm sure we can all agree they won't last as long as vintage washers (relatively speaking), because some of the vintage ones did have issues! Honestly, I was expecting my Duet to be dead years ago. I was VERY UPSET at first when I saw how little water it used, but as I used it and got the feel for it, I went from hating it to loving it.

Post# 848001 , Reply# 41   10/27/2015 at 19:15 (1,060 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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Any one that has ever used one KNOWS this is the ONLY way to actually do laundry... None of that HE BS or fancy schmaltzy electronics. You can custom tailor the cycle to the garment and the soil level too!

Still these are a bit too modern to me. A good flat rock in a fast flowing stream rinses far better!

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Post# 848013 , Reply# 42   10/27/2015 at 19:57 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        

Even when used properly, they will fail at cleaning!


Post# 848014 , Reply# 43   10/27/2015 at 19:57 (1,060 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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and I thought I was the resident hothead around here!

I'm probably mellowing out as I get older or perhaps it is because I went to the dark side and used PODS in my non union Frigidaire DW.

OR perhaps I have a new home and lots of exciting things to dream about. Or keep watching the union made Goodman 96% AFUE furnace run trying to understand and marvel at the same time how a simple piece of PVC exhausts what little heat is not kept in the heat exchanger.

Or I'm prowling Ebay for more Speed Queen ads.

Or I'm trolling HVAC forums learning about 35/5/370V Capacitors and how to change them. OR learning about flame sensors, rollout valves, inducer motors, silicone nitride ignitors and the like.

Or I'm fussing over my overgrown yard with too much turf type fescue and not enough bluegrass. Or I'm trying to budget for a concrete driveway/sidewalk.

Between 1-3 AM I worry about Frig now that he has eschewed PODS and come back to the land of liquids.

Or I watch social guidance films on youtube and laugh my tail off at the naivety that seems so quaint now.

Or I'm researching Murphy's oil soap and if it will work on my laminate wood floor.

Or calling dad each day hoping his back pain is not as severe as it was the day before.

Et cetera...........

Post# 848017 , Reply# 44   10/27/2015 at 20:05 (1,060 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        
K-Mart underwear!

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Reading this thread is like a scene out of "Rain Man"...just sayin

Excuse me while I go open my dishwasher repeatedly while its running. :-D

Post# 848019 , Reply# 45   10/27/2015 at 20:09 (1,060 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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KMART sucks!

Post# 848030 , Reply# 46   10/27/2015 at 21:04 (1,060 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Hi, Ben!

Post# 848031 , Reply# 47   10/27/2015 at 21:06 (1,060 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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Hi frig!

Post# 848033 , Reply# 48   10/27/2015 at 21:24 (1,060 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        
Sam the Eagle has it summed up....

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Post# 848034 , Reply# 49   10/27/2015 at 21:25 (1,060 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        
it is what it it like I see it!

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your right.....he's got his finger stuck, but its not in his ears....

excuses and opinions are like assholes, every ones got one! any case, just blowing hot air!, out of either end!...

so guys, has any of this changed your minds?.....which do you dislike or leaving a bad taste in your mouth now, LG?, Samsung?, any HE machine?......or the OP?

don't get me wrong, we love a good debate over machines or anything laundry, look forward to reviews by a members getting a new toy, and the pros and cons they have experienced....that's the key word, experience.....about the only thing this one experienced is learning to surf YouTube...

not a village our there laying claim to this idiot....their too embarrassed!

Post# 848036 , Reply# 50   10/27/2015 at 21:57 (1,060 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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I don't normally comment on these stupid threads (no insult intended toward you Jerome), but Bruce, here's the deal and you used the phrase yourself. "I did buy the service contract with them, just in case." Let's see. The phrase "buy the service contract". Let's examine this "service contract" terminology, shall we? I don't know exactly when this "service contract" phrase came into existence but I know it wasn't around 40 or 50 years ago. If I recall correctly it's only appeared in the last 15 to 20 years or so and more so in just the last ten.

The companys selling these "contracts" are doing so because they can no longer guarantee that their products will last. Products such as washers, dryers, cars, lawn mowers and so forth are considered "durable goods" or at least they are supposed to be. Several decades ago these products were durable with quality built in and came with good guarantees. There was no "service contract", there was no need for a "service contract" and no one had ever heard of a "service contract". These contracts are offered because companys know these products are of low quality, there is little or no quality control on the line, there are no unions in Korea or China or where ever the hell this shit is made so no pride is built into the product to begin with. They know the product is most likely to fail.

The first crime is selling low quality products to an unknowing public to begin with. The second crime is selling "service contracts" on durable goods that are expensive, should last and should have a strong guarantee to begin with. The third crime is producing this junk, as it depletes our natural resources and pollutes our planet. There is no energy or resource savings in durable goods that needs constant attention or replacement. Why is there such an upsurge in interest in AW if people aren't tired of the new appliances that don't last?

There is no rebuttal to this debate. You ended any logical response to this statement with your "service contract" remark. Those two words proved the point. I'm not attacking you personally, Bruce. I'm trying to impress on people in this forum that these these energy star gadgets that break down frequently, use little water or supposedly perform other little feats of magic are not going to save the planet or save anyone any money in the long run. It's just corporate chicanery that many people have fallen for.

But, on a more personal note, it doesn't seem logical or economically sound to buy a new huge capacity washer and dryer just to wash a king sized comforter. Maybe try a smaller bed or try layering with regular sized blankets or quilts that will fit into a normal sized machine? And last of all, please quit saying, "Buy a front load washer and come into the 21st century", when others mention a vintage machine. People that are mentioning vintage machines are usually in the "Imperial" section, or they should be, and aren't interested in your front load/21st century comments.

Post# 848038 , Reply# 51   10/27/2015 at 21:58 (1,060 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 848040 , Reply# 52   10/27/2015 at 22:05 (1,060 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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This is the stupidest f'ing thread I've read on this site in years.

I motion the moderators to close.
And like others have said, it's taking up good educational space to outside and inside visitors alike.

Hubris and youtube videos, evidence they are not.

Post# 848042 , Reply# 53   10/27/2015 at 22:12 (1,060 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I'm not sure what is happening on this thread.

*logs out* *leaves to sip hot chocolate in the recliner*

Post# 848044 , Reply# 54   10/27/2015 at 22:26 (1,060 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Just a lot of crazies that refuse to accept we are in the 21st century is all that's going on.

Post# 848048 , Reply# 55   10/27/2015 at 22:43 (1,060 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Sears pushed service/maintenance contracts years ago ... 1960s?

Post# 848049 , Reply# 56   10/27/2015 at 22:44 (1,060 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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I didn't realize there were that many people that had forgot to check their calendars for the last 15 years. Go up to Pitcher. I think there's lots of front loaders down in those sink holes for ya.

Post# 848051 , Reply# 57   10/27/2015 at 22:44 (1,060 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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Well one of us is crazy and it's not you. :)

I do see Brian's point and he makes a good one.

One thing he forgot was the every shrinking warranties on appliances.

Let's see, I purchased my GE plastic fantastic in 1999. From the factory, 10 year warranty on the tranny, lifetime on inner and outer tub, and 5 year parts warranty. IIRC labor was NOT included.

Go look at GE now. Not one machine has a warranty longer than ONE paltry year.

Moved into my newly built home in April. Came with Frig icebox (ONE year warranty, period, even on the sealed system), Whirlpool smoothtop electric (ONE year warranty)and a Frig DW (ONE year warranty).

I think he's right, too many of us have been duped by corporate BS thinking that an extended "contract" means peace of mind. No what it means is you, the manufacturer, don't have the balls to stand behind the junk you make.

But we like the 45 wash cycles and the "sanitize" options now don't we? And don't forget 6 months same as cash and NO finance lol lol lol.

Right. Time for a wee bit of a dram and off to bed I go.

Post# 848059 , Reply# 58   10/27/2015 at 23:41 (1,060 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

though I disagree with some of the notions of the OP regarding HE washers,this thread did get me thinking about the advantages/disadvantages of various types of HE washers :)Now quite curious about the wash performance of the 2010 belt drive WP cabrio I bought($40)for repair-it is now on the workbench :)
GELandry4ever:time to get a washer collection started if possible -got any machines on a "get list" :)

Post# 848063 , Reply# 59   10/27/2015 at 23:55 (1,060 days old) by golittlesport (California)        
Good Lord, GE!

Why pop a gut over a machine you don't own? Why do you care what machines other people buy and use?

I have an LG front load pair and they are the best machines I have ever used. I work in a gym as a trainer and am on a sports team that practices twice a week. Believe me, I throw some very dirty, sweaty clothes at my machines and they come back perfect.

They breeze through quilted king size comforters, saving me big dry cleaning bills.

On what personal experience are you basing your hissy fit?

This is America and we are all free to choose whatever type and brand of washing machine and dryer that we want.

Post# 848064 , Reply# 60   10/28/2015 at 00:23 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
my mom's lg

My mom has an LG pair from 2007 and it runs flawlessly. With that being said, it may not last for 15 years. I may be lucky if the pair lasts 10 years. I guess my mom and I have been some of the lucky few who have had the pair for 8 years compared to the majority.

Post# 848066 , Reply# 61   10/28/2015 at 00:31 (1,060 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
my point is...

My point is that a lot of people have had numerous problems with HE washers and dryers, especially with LG and Samsung. I have done a huge load of sturdy cotton darks. and everything else for the most part. I just leave the delicate washes to my mom. When I am at her house, I take on the sturdy cottons. I use cotton/normal. The only thing that changes is the temperature and additive according to color. I always use high quality laundry detergent and fabric softener. I use bleach when I am dealing with whites. I have had no mold or mildew issues or electronics issues. But that doesn't mean that the majority will run smoothly and efficiently like the very few.

Post# 848070 , Reply# 62   10/28/2015 at 01:07 (1,060 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Why throw a tantrum about the "possibility" of them 'not lasting X years'? All man made products have an expiration date, some nearer than others. Trust me, I'd be willing to bet that there have been quite a number of GE FilterFlo's, Whirlpool PowerCleans, Speed Queens, etc., that bit the dust far sooner than they ever should have, and some less than 5 years at that. I'm no fanboy of LG, and most assuredly Samsung, as they clone their machines majorly from LG and the other companies, BUT they do have products that outstand others and turn out to be very well performing and very reliable machines. I know of two LG sets among friends and family that are over 10 years old and still haven't missed a beat. LG's front loaders more specifically have gained a nice reputation, and their design has been improved upon but not altered much in the past decade or so. So it isn't fair to write them off entirely.

Nor is it fair to write off an entire fleet of "HE" labeled machines just because of what you've heard from a few people and a handful of YouTube videos. You're right that "a lot of people have had numerous problems with HE washers and dryers", but there are also that many more people have have had great results from them and wouldn't trade them for a thing. As for the LG that your mom has that apparently has been running with no issues at all for 8 years, count that as a testament to how the company and the engineers were successful for something, instead of betting on its faults and counting down the days until it does fail just to try and prove the point that everything eventually breaks.

Post# 848075 , Reply# 63   10/28/2015 at 04:49 (1,060 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Wow, I reply to a rant and suddenly a thread explodes that would ordinarily have just a few replies. :-) So, I have to be careful on what I'm going to add here.

Whenever I'm about to make a post, I always ask myself, "Do I have something I can add to this thread that people might see value in? Is there new information I can put here that people might find useful?" .. If I can't answer yes to any of those questions, I don't post. I would like to urge the OP to ask himself those same questions before he posts and I'd like him to re-read his replies and ask himself, "When I made that reply, did I contribute anything?". If the answer is "Yes", ask yourself, "What was it?".

Further, we know that the OP doesn't like steam cleaning dryers. Have they actually used one? I have. They do work. It's a gimmick, but it's a neat gimmick. (Steam cleaning got me somewhat interested in Thermocoils and Thermoblocks. Read up on them.) Do they last? Not in hard water environments, but in a soft water environment they will.

Stepping back a bit, some of the technologies we've seen in older machines (Like steam cleaning in dryers) actually have been around since the 1960's with a portion of the cycle injecting water into the drum in the last few minutes of the cycle to "Steam" the clothes, de-wrinkling them in the process. Different methodology, but pretty much the same result.

Then I think back to the Kelvinator "Magic Minute", which was, in some ways, kind of the ancestor to HE style cleaning, by using less water to achieve a greater concentration of detergent for better cleaning power.

I admit, I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to gimmicks. I love reading about them. I wish I could see LG's waveforce cleaning my clothes or a Calypso machine chugging away in real life instead on Youtube. LG's direct drive mechanism is fascinating. (They must think it's built to last because it has a 10 year warranty. At least, on the machines in Canada anyway.)

I occasionally head out to Home Despot and look at the new machines, even if only out of curiousity. I admit that the "loose" suspension of modern top loading HE machines does put me off. (I can easily bang the tub against the side of the cabinet with my hand.) However, it makes me wonder if there is something else in the machine that ensures that the need for a stiff suspension isn't necessary anymore? I bet I could probably open up a thread just about that alone.

Regardless, the last thing I'd do is making a youtube video of me going around talking crap about machines, without actually doing laundry in them. I always think there's a reason why an engineer did something a certain way. Was it a cost savings measure or was it actually decent engineering to do it that way?

As much as I would absolutely love to have multiple sets of machines in my basement, my wonderful wife, (As tolerant and as patient as she is) won't let me.
Otherwise, if I could, I'd probably try out some of the neatest, gimmickyest (sp?) machines on the market.

So, I think that in the numerous number of replies in this thread, everything that has needed to be said has been said. Personal experiences speak volumes to me, more than someone just posting an opinion on a forum without ever having used those machines.

GELaundry4ever, if you really honestly think you yourself could design a better machine, do so. Start by learning how these machines work and figure out a better design. I remember reading an article about how automatic tumble drying hasn't really improved since the 1940's when the first machines were put on the market. Modern dryers are horrendously inefficent. If I could put all that waste heat back into my house without all the lint, I would.

This board is the perfect place to put forth technical questions about things. As well, your computer is connected to the most powerful network in the world. There are lots of service manuals on this site alone that could show you how to tear apart and put back together any machine of your choice.

When my parents 1963 Filter-Flo packed it in, (The outer tub was leaking) as a teenager, I tore down that entire machine completely. I could have replaced the outer tub, but my parents had already replaced it with an Inglis machine. I spent hours in the garage tearing that machine down to all the little bits, learning about how everything put together. (I thought the motor coupler was kind of neat!) That's kind of where my interest in washers started.

Now, in some ways, if it weren't for space, I'm tempted to pull apart a modern washer and attempt to repair it, then give it away to someone who needs it. There is a really good thread in here about someone who tried that with an older early 2000's GE top loader. Unfortunately, buying a new outer plastic tub cost nearly as much as what the washer was worth, but the thread was fascinating to read. :-)

Post# 848076 , Reply# 64   10/28/2015 at 05:05 (1,060 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

As a small little tidbit to the OP...

When I was looking at this leather motor coupler for the first time in my hands, I wondered, "This doesn't make any sense. Why would GE put something like this in their washers?"

(The older ones used leather straps, the newer ones used a design like what I posted in this URL) I originally thought it was a stupid idea because it just made things more complex and acted as a single point of failure.

I later learned that the reason why a motor coupler is needed was mainly for the absorbtion of vibration from the motor, to quiet down the machine.

The point I'm trying to drive forward is this...

If there is something you see that looks or seems like a stupid idea to you, there may have been a very good reason behind it or why an engineer did it that way.

The same goes for washplates, "loose" suspensions, HE style washing, plastic parts instead of metal parts or other such things.

I can't easily just say, "Samsung and LG should stick to making electronics!" because believe it or not, there is a lot of engineering that goes into making a machine. Hydraulic engineering, Mechanical engineering, Computer hardware and software engineering and so forth, with dozens if not hundreds of engineers and Quality Assurance testers making sure that their product isn't a steaming pile of crap, compared to the competition.

GELaundry4ever, you are an 18 hour drive away from the Alliance Factory in Ripon, WI, or about a 5 hour flight.. Assuming that your location information is correct. If I were you, I'd take the time to go for a factory tour. Once you understand everything that goes into a machine, perhaps you might have a bit more respect for the other manufacturers who have to make a competing product. Even if it is inferior, they still had to do as much engineering, if not moreso!


Post# 848081 , Reply# 65   10/28/2015 at 06:44 (1,060 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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I think we don't always on this forum understand that there are people participating here with limited skills in communication and/or limited in understanding things. That's why it's good to have some patience with some people. It's also a reason why threads can explode. Read between the lines and you might be able to see what's going on.

Post# 848086 , Reply# 66   10/28/2015 at 07:07 (1,060 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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There is indeed a wide variety of people and personalities in here and I def try to respect that. What irritates me is when people only listen to what they want to hear. Searching for videos or reviews that back up their claim that something sucks. Then someone like me, who posts videos and comments on how WELL a product works and I get ignored. It's really just a very narrow minded way of looking at things. I totally respect people liking older products, but to spend your life (what it seems) ranting about how awful new things are, just isn't mentally healthy.

There is a plethora of used washing machines out there to keep anyone who doesn't like new ones, happy. You say all new products suck? Then why did you buy a new Speed Queen? Because not all new products suck...pick what you want and zip it!

That's my last 2 cents on the topic ;-)

Post# 848094 , Reply# 67   10/28/2015 at 07:49 (1,060 days old) by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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OP said it was a "rant"...IN THE TITLE.
That to me is a sign not to expect a reasoned, well thought out rhetorical position on the pros and cons of blah blah blah.

Post# 848124 , Reply# 68   10/28/2015 at 10:28 (1,060 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Like a couple have already said, there's almost always a reason engineers do something a certain way.
I'm an engineer myself, and the final solutions that make it to the products on market, might very well be NOT the best solution. It might've been our 2nd or 3rd choice. Based on variables outside of our control or time/manufacturing constraints.
Another constraint on engineering, which happens all the MARKETING AND FINANCE.
The engineers might have a much more elegent solution to a problem, or a design, but they might be hamstrung to go a different way, because it might shave several pennies from the margins, or make manufacturing "too expensive."
In other industries besides aviation/heavy industrials....those marketing and price restrictions happen ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME.
I'm bogged down by them in fire safety (sleep well! :D )

Go look at the GE dishwashers on sale now. A majority of them have had the upper 3rd spray arm removed for a "sprinkler head." Likely due to cost cutting.
I'm pretty certain the engineers intended that spray arm to stay there. But were overruled by accounting to "boost margins."

My point is, like earlier stated, because you think something is STUPID on a product, there's likely a reason, or several reasons behind it.
And there's a good chance that engineer is NOT sleeping well because they don't like that solution either.


Post# 848130 , Reply# 69   10/28/2015 at 11:08 (1,060 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        
Good Point, Forloysius

I'm very aware that I sometimes fail to include a trivial detail that is nonetheless required to make everything else I said come together to make a coherent picture.

I started typing a response last night last night asking for clarification because it was clear to me that I was missing some piece of information that everyone else seemed to have. Then I realized I myself had no idea where the gap was so how could anyone else fill it in... so I didn't post.

My point: If someone posts something that makes no sense or appears contradictory it would be immensely helpful to state specifically where you see the breakdown in logic or what two specific pieces of information appear to contradict.

To just state that there's a problem doesn't tell the other person what he needs to explain or clarify in order to start making sense.

Just my 2 cents...


Post# 848140 , Reply# 70   10/28/2015 at 12:39 (1,059 days old) by Dewey643 ()        

I have to agree with beekeyknee in Reply number 50(Post 848036)! Enough said! Myself,I didn't buy a "service contract" with my new Speed Queen set. Why? Didn't need one!

Post# 848166 , Reply# 71   10/28/2015 at 15:33 (1,059 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I can understand your point.

I can understand your point, but from what I heard, Speed Queen is the only real new washer and dryer left. That's just what I have heard. I have yet to test the new ones out.

Post# 848169 , Reply# 72   10/28/2015 at 16:17 (1,059 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

Why are dryers even being brought into this? Every single dryer right now on the market does what it is intended to do without limits. WP still makes the top lint filter design which has been used for years. Dryers are simple machines which can pretty much last almost forever (even Samsung and LG). If the heating element shorts out, it's easy to replace as well. Dryer designs really haven't changed too much at all in the past years....

Post# 848176 , Reply# 73   10/28/2015 at 16:48 (1,059 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
True dat washerdude..however the LG dryer I used at my previous residence really wasn't that good. It would stop and the clothes would still be damp...I'd have to run it again. PITA! However my year old GE basic dryer has been flawless...and the design has been around for a long time.

Post# 848194 , Reply# 74   10/28/2015 at 17:49 (1,059 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
What about the quality of washers?

I understand that dryers may be simple machines, but this is especially for the matching washers. Why do they seem so flimsy except for Speed Queen these days? How do these new washers hold up? I have heard that the new ones are flimsy and cheap and that is just marketing hype. I have heard that they are designed to fail!

Post# 848213 , Reply# 75   10/28/2015 at 19:03 (1,059 days old) by Dewey643 ()        

GELaundry4ever,I have a new Speed Queen laundry pair and I love them. The new stuff,especially at the big box stores,are flimsy and cheaply constructed and yes,...they are designed to fail. The only REAL washer left IS Speed Queen,and they're built like a tank,...well worth the investment! Not to be brand bashing here,and that is not my intent,but one of the ladies at my bank bought one of the new Maytags, less than nine months,it has quit working. Started making strange noises and then quit. Not sure if she said it had to do with computer board or motor went bad,but it quit none the less! She is NOT happy after paying out a LOT of money on a washer brand that she thought was a good one! Ever since they bought the brand,WP has ruined the Maytag brand as well as their own, least that is what I have been hearing. Others,...mind you,...may have different experiences!

Post# 848226 , Reply# 76   10/28/2015 at 19:36 (1,059 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I don't blame you!

I don't blame you one bit! I have seen what these new ones do! Exception: Speed Queen!

Post# 848246 , Reply# 77   10/28/2015 at 21:21 (1,059 days old) by Dewey643 ()        

Yeah,...and IMO,you can't really blame the engineers who design the new HE machines,...they most likely have orders from the damn greedy bean counters in the front office to design and build them as cheap as possible,...again just my opinion. Thank heaven Speed Queen doesn't operate that way! WP,Kenmore,Maytag,and GE are NOT the companies they once were. Shareholders and the damn greedy bean counters in the front office are to blame for the bad designs! Again,...not trying to bash any company,but think about what has happened to those particular brands in the last five or so years. What about Electrolux and Frigidaire,...are they any good or are they as bad as WP,Kenmore,Maytag,and GE when it comes to current washing machine design?

Post# 848249 , Reply# 78   10/28/2015 at 21:42 (1,059 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
question what do you know about these new machines have we seen videos of these so call he top load no we have not and speed queen test there machines before they go on the market, i think there will be lots of search on craig list or use appliance store for vintage washer dryer sets this also includes ebay

Post# 848287 , Reply# 79   10/29/2015 at 05:02 (1,059 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

In the capitalist world, companies have to "lead by example". The company that makes the best product will sell the most of it. That's just a fact of life. If everyone sells a shoddy product, it won't take much for someone else to come in and eat their lunch. :-)

I think Alliance is doing that. They're expanding their factory because they can't keep up with the demand. If they eventually start outselling the large manufacturers, they'll start taking notice and they'll have to step up their game.

Keep in mind that when someone gets burned on a $1200-$2000 machine, they won't forget it and they'll start looking at another manufacturer. Maybe they'll even start asking questions on forums like these, or maybe they'll Google it.

There has to be a bottom to the whole cost cutting thing.

Big box stores don't want to sell stuff that doesn't make them money either, especially if consumers keep returning it. The LG Spinsplode scandal, I'm sure, cost the big box stores a lot of money. I'm sure their buyers had a word with them. A statement like, "We buy millions of dollars of your product every year. You will redesign it, or we'll stop buying it." carries a lot of weight!

Post# 848295 , Reply# 80   10/29/2015 at 07:40 (1,059 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
Yes it's all about competition. Alliance, as odd as it seems now, really is catering to a "niche" market now. A market that doesn't want anything fancy and modern. Granted their sales have taken off because of their reliability and probably due to the fact that there are still a lot of Americans (and Canadians) that want a top load machine with agitator. Actually that was why GE designed their new machines the way they did, because people still want that agitator!

A lot of the issues the HE machines have I think are pretty isolated and though not always, due to user error. Of course you always hear about those stories instead of the ones like mine that praise how well something works.

I'm not sure about Speed Queen, but most other manufacturers make their parts to be replaced not repaired. While reading up on my Filter-Flo there was an article from about when their "new" machines came out in the 90's and how the components could not longer be rebuilt. Basically you throw away a broken transmission and buy a new one. Honestly I'd be surprised if you could rebuild any of the components in a Speed Queen either....

Case in coworker just bought a new Samsung gas stove. She noticed that the burners did not change between medium setting and high setting. Her husband used to repair appliances so he knew that it needed to be adjusted. They have propane so he suspected it wasn't set right. So they call Samsung for a warranty repair and right of the bat they told them they would just send them a new stove. A NEW stove...they had theirs for like a week and that was the only thing wrong with it. They didn't want the expense of sending a repairman out to adjust the burners, instead just send a whole new unit. Samsung in particular (from what I've read) prefers just to give you a new ---- instead of repairing. Throw away products. I suspect if you call even GE or WP they would send someone to look at it. While great, it makes it clear how they think of their products. Kinda sad really.

But to be fair too, manufacturers do what their customers want. Everyone is in a hurry these days. Do you want to wait a week for someone to come and fix your dishwasher? Or do you want to go online to Sears, Home Depot, etc and just buy a new dishwasher and have it delivered within a day or 2. No one wants to wait for anything these days. I want it NOW!!

Post# 848314 , Reply# 81   10/29/2015 at 08:50 (1,059 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

washman's profile picture
A friggin washing machine should not be so complicated that poor results are from "user error".

User error, as a reason for something not working, can apply to a lot of things. Washing your darn clothes should not be one of them.

Post# 848317 , Reply# 82   10/29/2015 at 08:54 (1,059 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
I know huh? You can't really do "mindless" washing with HE machines...well the top load ones anyhow. Because they clean differently you have to really pay attention to how you load them and what the load consists of. Pain in the neck I know, but I truly think that's why some people have problems with them.

Another coworker of mine lives with her sister and she bought a new Samsung front loader (they had a pair of Neptunes before). Her sister wouldn't let her do her laundry until she showed her how to use the new machine. LOL. I thought that was funny. However FL's are more forgiving and I think a better choice for people who don't want to put much thought into doing laundry.

Post# 848329 , Reply# 83   10/29/2015 at 10:08 (1,059 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
throw away

johnb300m's profile picture
joeypete and qualin, you're 100% correct from what I've learned.
Home Depot and Lowe's don't want to sell products so bad, that customers will return them in large numbers. It eats at their profits, and causes lost customers.

In fact, an awesome salesman at the Naperville, IL Home Depot, told me that they've certainly had difficulty with LG and Samsung.
He said that tradition would be for companies like GE and Whirlpool to stock replacement parts for all their machines for about 7-10 years.
He said LG and Samsung stock NO parts, and they redesign most of them every 2 years.
So if you have a broken LG washer that's 3 years old, there's a good chance there are NO parts for it. LG will send you a new machine. IF they so choose to cover it.

So what Lowe's and Home Depot have had to do, is stockpile tons of parts with their in-house coverage services, so there's at least some parts availible for the most issue-prone components to satisfy their customers.

They LOVE selling the glitzy, high margin Samsung and LG stuff, especially because the companies throw TONS of marketing money at them. But as a business, GE and Whirlpool are by far still the better companies to deal with.

This actually happened to some friends with a 2yr old Samsung dishwasher. The drain motor died, and there were NO Samsung parts! The repair man had to find a similar after market drain pump.

Post# 848477 , Reply# 84   10/29/2015 at 22:00 (1,058 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
truth about HE washers

I am so sick of the high efficiency washers! You have to dump buckets of water to get anything remotely clean! You can't get clothes clean without water, let alone a cup or a few inches of water! Clothes are meant to be underwater when washing! Keep the feds out of my laundry room! Flimsy design! Modern washers are Chinese pieces of crap! I'm glad my dad has his 15 year old GE set and I wouldn't trade it for anything else. However, if it comes to that, it will be Speed Queen! They are real washers, not clothes fresheners like these so called high efficiency washers! The green movement is out of control!


Post# 848481 , Reply# 85   10/29/2015 at 22:45 (1,058 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

How many different brands and models of high-efficiency washers have you used and tested to verify your claims?  How many buckets of water are you having to dump in to get the clothes underwater and attain some remoteness of clean?  You've had feds in your laundry room?  What did they do in there?  What did they say?

Post# 848482 , Reply# 86   10/29/2015 at 22:51 (1,058 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        

mayfan69's profile picture

LOVING the questions being thrown back at him Dadoes!




Post# 848484 , Reply# 87   10/29/2015 at 22:54 (1,058 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        
I smell a .....

johnb300m's profile picture

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Post# 848488 , Reply# 88   10/30/2015 at 00:07 (1,058 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
I've just come...

...back out of the kitchen, where I've opened my running dishwasher a lot in the last 1/2 hour. I do this to make sure that my dishes are still there at the end of the cycle. This thread is really interesting. Now I have to go downstairs and open my washer until it finishes its cycle. Amazingly, my clothes and dishes have never gone missing ever.

Post# 848535 , Reply# 89   10/30/2015 at 09:19 (1,058 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I have 1 HE washer.

I have a real HE front loader - one that does what it's supposed to do! The Feds keep changing water regulations! The HE top loaders just leave your clothes dirty! Theere videos of where these HE top loaders explode without warning! You have to dump several buckets of water, then agitate it yourself because there is too little water in there! The machine just barely vibrates your clothes! The Feds make us go green! Green isn't clean in the laundry room!


Post# 848544 , Reply# 90   10/30/2015 at 09:33 (1,058 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
You mean the hand crank HE top loaders. Yeah, mine is one of the new electric ones with a motor. :-/

Post# 848550 , Reply# 91   10/30/2015 at 10:01 (1,058 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

Yes, "user error" can apply to anything and unfortunately that includes washing your clothes when people do not know how to operate machinery correctly. I have an example to share of user error featuring a basic, old-fashioned agitator washer. No load sensing or selecting proper temp and speed for the user here.

Years ago a friend of my son's was staying with us. He literally packed our top loader full of clothes and neglected to change the water level from "minimum" where it had been set during the previous load. He then started the machine on the longest cycle.

You can imagine the results. Damaged clothes and I believe a damaged machine -- the transmission blew a year later on a five year old machine. He told us something was wrong with the washer -- complaining that only a few clothes were even wet when he took them out in knots and detergent was still sprinkled on the top of the load! I could have crowned him!

That was before the days of You Tube and iPhones, so he wasn't able to make a video of his experience. LOL

Post# 848552 , Reply# 92   10/30/2015 at 10:03 (1,058 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture

Much like the dishwashers we discussed on another thread, I would say that newer HE type washers are an adjustment for some from the high dillution top loaders of yore. 


When reading through the threads on this site you will see that other countries that have adopted HE machines much earlier than us are quite happy with their results. 


Anything we purchase has a different feel.  Some quality has been lost, some have improved.  Take cars for example.  In the 50s and 60s we had all metal bemouths that weighed close to three tons and had all the safety features of a toaster in the bathtub. Those cars could take a hit, kill all their occupants and still look good.  


Now we have a lot of plastic, aluminum, and fiberglass.  These cars are designed to crush, disipate energy away from the occupant cage and let the passangers survive instead of the car.


Which is better built?  Open to interpertation.  So are modern appliances worse than vintage?  In terms of durability, yes.  We all know that a washer used to last 20-25 years, now the average is seven.  Are electronics the doom of the industry, or do they help you customize, and better the performance?


Past generations had to boil their water in a tub in the  yard, scrub their clothes on a scrub board with home made lye soap and dry them on the fence regardless of the weather.   Thank God we have moved beyond that.  I remember my Grandmother, who never had an automatic washer until 1974, complaining that "That Norge uses too much water."  "I could do all my washing in that amount of water, now it takes all that for each load."  Times do change.


It can get frustrating that we can't have everything remain the same, but we have to make some movement to reserve or maintain our resources or the restrictions will be even worse for the next generation. 

Post# 848566 , Reply# 93   10/30/2015 at 10:51 (1,058 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture


I understand now.  You have not used any HE topload washers to get personal hands-on experience on how to make proper use of them.  You don't know for sure that buckets of water need to be added or how many buckets are required.  Your complaints are based only on what other people have said and what you've seen in videos made by other people who possibly were not loading the machine correctly or using the wrong cycle for the load type.  Have a great day!

Post# 848588 , Reply# 94   10/30/2015 at 11:50 (1,058 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I have yet to test the HE top loader!

I have yet to do a load in the HE top load washer! Something tells me that it is never going to get clothes clean! Clothes need water to dissolve laundry detergent, bleach and fabric softener depending what you're washing! Something ttells me that it's never going to work! less water plus less energy equals dingy/dirty clothes! I am sick and tired of the stupid auto temp! You are forced to use it on the electronic controlled washers or you will get an error code! Whites need hot water not tepid! Temp control is stupid! Impossible to wash whites in so-called hot water, even when bleach is used in the designated white load in the designated dispenser! You have to wash the same load several times in a HE top loader to get anything clean! What a waste of time, energy and water! Energy efficient my ass! This is ticking me off! This is why we have washers that don't wash! Excuse my language, but I am frustrated! I am going to get a 2010 or older modern washer with mechanical controls next time, or buy a brand new speed queen matched electric set!

Post# 848592 , Reply# 95   10/30/2015 at 11:55 (1,058 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I decide!

I decide what load size, water temperature, spin speed, and cycle I need, and still come out cleaner than these overrated HE top load washers! I decide! Not the machine! Top loaders trying to be front loaders! Fail!

Post# 848618 , Reply# 96   10/30/2015 at 13:06 (1,057 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture

Does your key board have one of these keys?

You inability to end a sentence without an exclamation point greatly undermines any (remaining) credibility that you may have left...

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Post# 848645 , Reply# 97   10/30/2015 at 14:38 (1,057 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I do research.

I research consumer reviews and they are true. There are numerous problems with most modern washers today. Here is an example a website with complaints..


Post# 848654 , Reply# 98   10/30/2015 at 15:01 (1,057 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
I do research.

kb0nes's profile picture

How many appliances do you read about that work fine and people are happy with??

Without knowing about the percentages of properly working machines, your "research" is DEEPLY flawed. Alas you don't seem to be concerned accuracy though as long as it sharpens the edge on your axe...

Post# 848658 , Reply# 99   10/30/2015 at 15:04 (1,057 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
I research consumer reviews and they are true.
What is your research method?  You have personally contacted the consumers who wrote the reviews?  You went to their homes, observed their laundry habits and methods?  You confirmed they are using the machines properly and never get even one clean item?

Or, you have built a test laboratory and have bought samples of several machines of various brands and models?  You have run numerous loads of different sizes and fabrics and garment types to confirm the machines always fail?  Hands-on testing is the only way to 100% confirm!

Post# 848661 , Reply# 100   10/30/2015 at 15:06 (1,057 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Online customer complaints and videos are NOT research.
They're qualitative data at best.

What YOU think is "stupid" is a great idea to someone else.

The majority of people today are MORONS when it comes to home appliances.
Sure, they can work an iphone....barely. But if you want to witness the "intelligence" of the general public with washing machines? Go sit in a laundromat.

If 80% of GE, Whirlpool and Samsung's customers are happy, then these companies are elated. A Maytag rep told my Home Depot guy that their new dishwashers have an 80% satisfaction rate. With the vast amounts of water, soap, soil and human abuse these machines have to go through on the open market, Maytag is THRILLED that 80% of sales are to happy owners. And that's for the modern, efficient dishwashers you rant about till you turn blue.

All your screeching is simply your qualitative opinion, and carries no weight compared to the scientific initial quality and endurance tests by and Consumer Reports.

There's an entire tresure trove of mechanically inclined appliance users, collectors and engieers on this site, and they're all saying the same things.
But you won't listen.

Check your ego at the door please, and LISTEN to what these people have to say.

Post# 848666 , Reply# 101   10/30/2015 at 15:19 (1,057 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        
So, yeah

joeypete's profile picture
I just did my weekly laundry in my "new" 1987 GE Filter-Flo washer and I love it and glad I have it now. However my clothes did NOT come out any cleaner than they did in my Kenmore 28102. Only difference was the amount of lint on my clothes was less because of the Filter-Flo. Cleaning performance was identical...and that is with whites too.

Post# 848695 , Reply# 102   10/30/2015 at 17:15 (1,057 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
consumer affairs

I read complaints about the HE appliances on The only brand that has very little, if not 0 complaints is speed queen!

Post# 848706 , Reply# 103   10/30/2015 at 17:52 (1,057 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
"I read complaints about the HE appliances on The only brand that has very little, if not 0 complaints is speed queen!"

This proves NOTHING!!

Do you make ANY consideration that there are thousands of times less Speed Queen machines out in the World???

Therefore assuming problems are equal between brands there should be a proportionate reduction of negative reviews.

Once again, using reviews on the Internet does not give an adequate sample to judge quality with any statistical accuracy.

Post# 848711 , Reply# 104   10/30/2015 at 18:05 (1,057 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

When you read online complaints, bear in mind that you are often reading the result of someone frustrated because a) something isn't working the way they expect (it could be faulty, it may be user error) or b) that they have been unable to contact the manufacturer/store/repairer.

That doesn't mean that ALL of that example model are faulty, just means that people, naturally, are more likely to shout when someone goes wrong and not when it sits in the corner quietly doing its business.

You also need to consider and re-read what you're writing - it seems that you're mainly complaining about HE top loaders with impellers, but that doesn't come across and gets people frustrated. Alternatively, you may have intended to post inflammatory comments in order to get an argument - I don't know.

One point I can certainly make is that I've been using h-axis washers since I was a small kid helping out, and have never once had one in the family that's gone mouldy or fallen apart with rust.

Post# 848717 , Reply# 105   10/30/2015 at 18:17 (1,057 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
front load

I can understand that front load washers tumble clothes through water. That is the only HE washer I will ever get if I want to use less water. if I want a HE top loader It will be GE with a glass, because it has a circulation pump that actually saturates clothes. I expect it to do the job the first time correctly, not 4 times.

Post# 849169 , Reply# 106   11/1/2015 at 19:37 (1,055 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
guess this Whirlpool Cabrio TOP LOAD HE washer blows any thoughts of not enough water out of the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oooooh LOOK!....a waterfall sprinkler to boot....

kudos to Gansky for the vid....

Post# 849172 , Reply# 107   11/1/2015 at 19:50 (1,055 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Had a look this morning at Lowe's at a few specimens of the Whirlpool touch-panel models.  They're quite nice and sleek.  Wish I could justify buying one for a test run.

Post# 849251 , Reply# 108   11/2/2015 at 09:42 (1,055 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
washer problem

I think somebody has a problem with their washer, because the cycle dial was broken.


Post# 849259 , Reply# 109   11/2/2015 at 11:16 (1,055 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

I think the person making that vid' would'a saved himself time & his breath, and gotten his machine to work, if he pushed the Power Button on the other side of that Timer Knob... (Is that what that other button is?) ( | )



-- Dave

Post# 849265 , Reply# 110   11/2/2015 at 11:44 (1,054 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
that's why you can't trust all the reviews and videos you see online.
At some point, a washer purchase is a blind-faith leap unless you have friends/family who have the exact washer/dryer you want, so you can try it first yourself.

Post# 849267 , Reply# 111   11/2/2015 at 11:50 (1,054 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
I've yet to see one of these "videos" posted that displays anything other than a user that has made no attempt to learn how to properly use their machine.

Maybe I should fight fire with fire by posting incessant YouTube links to videos of washers that ARE working correctly, to balance out all these negative lashings as of late.

Post# 849270 , Reply# 112   11/2/2015 at 12:12 (1,054 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
He probably is pressing the power button.  The video doesn't clearly show that side of the panel, but there's a musical chime in both instances immediately before the indicator lights turn on so something is triggering that to happen.

On the first attempt, he turns on the Power, cranks the dial, presses the Start button twice, then there's another click (Power button) and the lights turn off.

Second attempt, Power on, cranks the dial, then presses Start again and a couple of the other options buttons.

Post# 849271 , Reply# 113   11/2/2015 at 12:55 (1,054 days old) by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
Bogus trolling it would appear.
I am starting to wonder if some of these guys are paid for their efforts.
Destroying your competitors rep with cheap videos and false testimony spread through social media
would hardly be a surprising tactic given how effective it can be.
Happens with every new iphone released, a stupid cottage industry sets about creating a meme to try and sink it.

Post# 849294 , Reply# 114   11/2/2015 at 15:17 (1,054 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
what is lost, or one has failed to the 'credibility' of the person making the complaint of damaged goods.........

I have a neighbor complain on Angie's List about a repair guy, who smelled of smoke from a cigarette when he entered her home.....BUT, made no mention that she has about a dozen cats, all living inside, and you can smell THAT from the outside......I never enter the home, my eyes water too much!!!

like I said, 'CREDABILITY'.....

same could be said for individuals here, many have been seen, met other members......and yet some hide....those seem to be the ones who rant the most.....ironic?.....much help has been given me by other members, if I can't help that person, at least I try to help the next person along.....its give and take....

Post# 849337 , Reply# 115   11/2/2015 at 18:12 (1,054 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
This may be relevant to this post, and maybe not, but I find it interesting that you'll hear this kind of resistance and negativity with anything when it comes to a major change, whether it's cars, appliances, electronics, etc. I remember my Granddad telling me years ago as a kid about the changeover from the belt-drive design of the Whirlpool and Lady Kenmore to the Direct-Drive mechanism. He was close friends with a service technician at Sears, who at the time of the transition heard numerous complaints from salespeople, technicians, and customers alike, about why in the world Whirlpool (or Sears, for those who didn't realize who ACTUALLY made the machines) would ever abandon a design that worked so well for so long, and swearing that the new DD would never be reliable or be able to clean like the belt-drive Lady Ks. Little did they know, the DD design would spend the next 20+ years on the salesfloors of appliance stores in various styles and colors, and even longer in consumers' homes as they still are a common washing machine to find in laundry rooms today.

Granted, those people didn't have websites to jump on and scream from the mountain about their disappointment, nor did the ones who welcomed the change.

A lot has to do with nostalgia and sentimental value in older designs. Most people don't like change and it takes a while to warm up to new ideas, and to accept that maybe there is a better solution than the beloved washer (or car, computer, whatever) that they've grown so accustomed and attached to. Of course, it's not at all fair to instantly dismiss or discredit something just because it's new or different, and you can't really form a solid opinion on it without first trying it out for yourself. Many times, I've heard countless negative comments and reviews on something, only to try it and fall in love. My prime example is the Cabrio-Bravos XL sitting in my laundry room now, but that also has applied to music, movies, cars, restaurants, etc. Maybe that makes me an "idiot sheep", maybe not. But I assure you that I'm not walking around in dirty, sludgy clothes, I've never had to pour a bucket of water into my washer, and my laundry room hasn't been torn apart by a runaway washing machine yet.

Post# 849427 , Reply# 116   11/3/2015 at 00:15 (1,054 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
I am not here to rant. I go by my own experiences and the main problem causing customers to become hatefull toward front loading washers is common stupidity AND ignorance because, if they would just sittheir asses down and READ the USE AND CARE INSTRUCTIONS,they'd know to leave the washer door ajar to eliminate ANY CHANCE OF MILDEW OR MOLD to grow, how to maintain the machine clearing out the button trap on a month to month basis, change the inlet and drain hoses every five years, Do not wash tems with oil base stains like auto fuel or motor oil OR put them in a clothes dryer. They'll catch on fire, using the correct wash and rinse cycles,spin speeds and temperatures not just cold wash/cold rinse.and NEVER OVERLOAD . Ive seen so many folks overload their sets and causing havoc in repairs. This is why so many of the idiots who insist on buying them just for recognition they're ritch, he bitches who complain they got ripped off. I have had Westinghouse, White Westinghouse, Easy, Kenmore/Whirlpool, Maytag Neptune/Maytag, Matag Neptune/Samsung, Philco of Italy, Asko, Sears Kenmore/Whirlpool, Sears Kenmore/LG, Montgomer Ward Signature/Westinghouse,Montgomery Ward/Frigidaire and Frigidaire/Electrolux brands since I began collecting them and am totally converted to LG as my favorite current manufacturer of ALL major appliances and audio video and media products. I could give a rats ass where they're made ( hopefully not in US , I visited the old Mansfield Westinghouse factories in 1973 and half the guys there were drunk or on Heroin. It completely changed my taste for American made appliances. Run down, broken line equipment and low life union employees.) due to past experiences receiving damaged merchandise at,Bernie and Harrys, I became a bit more familiar with rthe Maytag line and would stay on the floor and off the phone. The other two guys would be smoking their cigs and biting nails to the quick from angry customers they sold the Kelvinator, Gibson and Tappan products to. Id sell FRIGIDAIRE, Amana, Whirlpool and Maytag an stayed with them till GM slams car door on FRIGIDAIRE APPLIANCES was typed on our ticker tape machine.I went home and cried once I heard that not only did GM sell the best appliance maker but they kept the Dayton factories,just selling the brand name rights to WCI .
Bud, I agree with you. The rant begun here sounds like there may be a few Prejudiced people here that hate Asians. I don't understand it. I believe they're jealous. The only information ,other then hunreds of letters from my LG buyers I sold to,is my reading Consumer Reports,having my own five different models of LG appliances,mostly laundry,and repairs Ive seen and done, makes LG the most dependable,great performing,easy to use, easy to maintain, handsome and fun to watch appliances of today. Had the American manufacturers done their jobs with pride,not greed,we'd have been way ahead of everyone. Dont forget, Bendix made the first,original automatics. They were front loading and had the button catcher. The LGs are a bit similar but have a tilted tub and three,not for fins. They spin so fast and use less water. Had Proctor and Gamble done the right thing with HE detergents back when Tide came out, front loaders here wouldn't have been a "new idea". It amazes me how many people assume front loaders are a new invention. What are our schools teaching ????

Post# 849428 , Reply# 117   11/3/2015 at 00:15 (1,054 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

I have the same Kenmore 28102 JoeyPete has and I'm as impressed with it as he is. It's quiet, it cleans better then the nice old 90 direct drive Whirlpool I nursed along for years, and like said the clothes come out much dryer so they take less time to dry. It also holds a lot more clothes so it takes less loads and uses so much less water it saves me about 20 a month on my overpriced water bill.
We also bought the next years bigger dryer later and same thing, much larger then our old one, autodry actually works and saves power and time and can dry much more in one load saving time and money.
It also has the check to make sure the vent isn't blocked which killed the old dryer a few times when the hose got blocked.
Parts seem to be readily available and reasonable, just like my older set and I refuse to buy a extra warranty becuase its just extra profit for the seller as most things will get traded off or never break within the extended period so they push them instead of offering a longer warranty.
Sure some designs are junk, but some aren't and I did read reviews before I made my choice and the 28102 got the best reviews at its price point and its made by Whirlpool who I still like. I also bought mine as a demo from the Sears outlet store and saved a bunch more money and still got the full warranty.
And many here like some of the LG and Samsung machines depending on the model, just like any of the others.
If your mom's LG set works well and still works after quite a few years sounds like at least hers doesn't suck. Some manufacturers will make complete junk, then come out with something that's outstanding and great bang per buck, then go back to cheaper junk again so it pays to keep your options open before you make blanket statements.
I have a Sony HD Radio, they made it only a year or two, it sold for 100 bucks, and it turned out to be one of the most sensitive, best sounding HD radios ever made. They dropped it and went back to typical low quality radios after that but this one unit was a statement about how well one could be made and work.
It's probably 8 years old now, still works and sounds great and is worth as much or more then I paid for it as folks that are into radios seek them out.
I don't like most of what Sony makes, but they do make a winner now and then and I'll give it a shot.

Post# 849448 , Reply# 118   11/3/2015 at 02:40 (1,054 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
My issues with American brands of appliances is the cheap as,thin metal,nonporcelain,cheap ass paint jobs. I call the Whirpool and their affiliates " The rust buckets" they rust in months and are the most common brands you'll see less then a year old at, the local dumps here and in Florida I went to. Their customer service sucks and it looks like FP now makes their P.O.S. Cabrio s. The ELECTROLUX machines are also a joke however, their top loading full size stacked set has a nice ss tub and a nice lppk but,we know it's far from best. The GEs are questionable due to their current "FRIGIDAIRE FRIENDSHIP" . I'm certain that EL.will do away with many of the Louisville plants and,build new ones as needed. LG is a big company and their cs is great. I used to have many issues before but,they actually have improved ten fold. Parts readily available,fast reimbursement of warranty calls and great training if need be on new product service tech.

Post# 849487 , Reply# 119   11/3/2015 at 10:06 (1,054 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
only modern laundry machine worth buying

There is one brand of washer worth buying along with its sister dryer. I am never going to buy a high efficiency piece of garbage ever in my life.


Post# 849489 , Reply# 120   11/3/2015 at 10:12 (1,054 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
video of my lg

However, I have a video of my lg doing a full load of my dark clothes. Sorry for the poor quality video.


Post# 849491 , Reply# 121   11/3/2015 at 10:13 (1,054 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
One thing age has taught me.

iheartmaytag's profile picture

Never say Never.

Remember to have a salt shaker handy, as you never know when you may be forced to eat crow.


Post# 849492 , Reply# 122   11/3/2015 at 10:32 (1,054 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
nothing against anybody

I have nothing against anybody. I just think the design and build quality is questionable.

Post# 849579 , Reply# 123   11/3/2015 at 17:57 (1,053 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

The new GE HE toploaders only take 34 minutes now....whats to complain about that..


Post# 849718 , Reply# 124   11/4/2015 at 10:10 (1,053 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
I watched/read some of Reviewed's "great American washer" articles and vids. I gotta say, I'm impressed with these units. If I have to go top load due to space issues this winter, I'll definitely consider the mid-level GE washer, with the corkscrew post. These are looking nice! I think they'll sell well.

Post# 849723 , Reply# 125   11/4/2015 at 10:20 (1,053 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
I'm impressed with them as well. Thank god they didn't continue to use the upper corkscrew design from the past machines. This new one looks much more sleek, as does that new fabric softener dispenser.

I'd like to see what cycles and settings they used for that 34 minute wash time. The Bravos -can- run a Normal cycle in 49 minutes, but that's with the Spray Rinse setting, and with medium soil, so basically default eco settings. Most top loaders default to such a cycle, but I only even remotely trust one that has a recirculation pump. Mine will do a fresh water spray, then drain, then add water until it can recirculate without sucking air into the pump, and does that for a few minutes. Sure, everything gets saturated well, but I still only trust it for light loads where detergent dosage could be decreased. I've tested with such small loads and it rinsed exceptionally well, but for large or heavily soiled loads I'd be more comfortable with the normal rinses.

Still, 34 minutes is a full 15 minutes less, so it's impressive, so long as the cleaning and rinsing results are good.

Post# 862457 , Reply# 126   1/17/2016 at 23:28 (978 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
best buy

I went to Best Buy and I couldn't believe how cheap the appliances were built! I knew they were going explode into millions of pieces, especiall LG and Samsung. I saw nothing but new garbage! The washers had no tub brake, most of them had no agitator. These HE washers grind dirt into your clothes! I have read complaints and seen videos of these stupid machines! They only use 1 cup of water! Don't even think about washing construction clothes! All the dirt grinds into your clothes especially jeans and overalls! They explode in the first cycle! I will not any Chinese engineered garbage, ever! Total waste of money! I will only buy speed queen. The new washers everybody else sells will force you to run 2000 cycles which takes over a century to get more dirty! Clothes need agitation and water! That's it! No messing around!

Post# 862458 , Reply# 127   1/17/2016 at 23:34 (978 days old) by A440 ()        

You are very, very special to us! 

Thanks for your input and all you do!



Post# 862466 , Reply# 128   1/18/2016 at 01:55 (978 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I realize these newer machines aren't well built--but have you tried them?Yes,I will only buy SQ if I am going to buy new-meantime-will nurse my older machines along and shop for appliances at the Dixons Swap Shop!

Post# 862474 , Reply# 129   1/18/2016 at 03:57 (978 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

As much as I have always loved the old top load washing machines, I have to say that for performance, my new LG made front loading w&d is terrific. The washer takes longer to do a load of clothes, but the difference in time is not a real issue for me. It also does a lot more than my old machine and a better job of it without any wear what so ever on the clothes and virtually NO lint at all. This is unusual for me, since I have NEVER liked front loading washers until I broke down and got one because of the enormous capacity it has. After using it, I just don't think there is any comparison to any top loading machine at all. They all pale in comparison. Even the majestic speed queen top loader. I do believe that in another few years, top loading machines will be a memory like so many other things of the past.

Post# 862529 , Reply# 130   1/18/2016 at 10:28 (978 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
I know, how terrible. My washer explodes every day and I have to pick up all the little pieces and put them back together, it even explodes when I'm not washing anything that day! Using all that super glue and duct tape is expensive.

And silly me, I walk around all day with dirt ground into my clothes like a dummy. That crazy washing machine, I tell ya.

But I am still waiting for you to post those pictures of all the HE washers you own and have experience using. You must have quite the collection from the sounds of it.

Post# 862542 , Reply# 131   1/18/2016 at 11:20 (978 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

I've used an HE top loader and it most certainly does NOT grind dirt into my clothes, or explode. It does an excellent job at removing dirt and stains, provided the proper cycles and temperatures are used, and the machine is loaded properly. It's a Whirlpool Cabrio, and I've never seen clothes come out without being completely wet. I've used front loaders, newer and older, and again, none have failed to produce clean clothes. Maybe some of these newer washers don't operate the way we would expect them to, but they do their job. If I can have clean clothes while using ~1/2 the water of a traditional top loader, I'm all for it. We all have different opinions, and that's fine.

Post# 862543 , Reply# 132   1/18/2016 at 11:29 (978 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Fortunately, I don't have a HE top load.

Fortunately, I don't have a HE top load. I have a HE front load which it does what it should. I can tell you that the green movement is out of control! You can't wash clothes in 1 cup of water! I am dead serious. This is how much these HE top loaders fill. Energy star is a total lie! You have to run 2000 cycles just to get properly clean and dry clothes. What a waste of money, time, and resources. Water hogs are 2000 times better. All that energy star nonsense is just marketing. That's the truth, despite what you believe. HE washers that grind dirt into your clothes and dryers that bake them to where dirt will never come out. You have to buy more clothes after you throw dirty ones away. Again, total waste of money!

Post# 862550 , Reply# 133   1/18/2016 at 11:46 (977 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
Plot twist: Most modern front loaders use less water than HE top loaders.

"Fortunately, I don't have a HE top load".

Fortunately, your opinions on the subject are hereby irrelevant. Please return to your assigned seat.

Post# 862554 , Reply# 134   1/18/2016 at 12:18 (977 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
Energy Star

johnb300m's profile picture
OMG this s*&t is too funny.

If you do not have an HE top loader, Jerome, how do you know it takes 2000 cycles to clean 1 load of clothes?
The average cycle time is about 45 minutes. 2000 cycles would take 62.5 DAYS in a row. I'm guessing by (and I'm being conservative) that the load would be clean before the 45th day.
However, that is provided that your HE top loader does not completely explode before then :)

Seriously, where do you come up with these BS facts?

And did you study Energy Star criteria in Energy Management class in college like I did?
Huh? What? I can't hear you over the explosion of my 2015 front load washer!

Post# 862560 , Reply# 135   1/18/2016 at 12:48 (977 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
Look at it, exploding as we speak. All over the place.

And that pile of raggedy, ground-in dirty towels that are covered in 2000 cycles worth of mud and poop from this horrible HE washer. Covered in rips and tears and holes all over the place.

***actually in all seriousness there is one towel, under the light blue one on the right stack, that the seam is loose on, and has been for YEARS. That towel is as old as I am as it's from a set my mom bought when I was a baby. That damage was actually from all the runs through our KitchenAid Superba, Maytag Atlantis, and the Whirlpool VMW; the Bravos-Cabrio hasn't torn it a bit.

But you know..I must be wrong, since Jerome seems to know all about it.

*sits patiently, still waiting for him to post pictures of all the HE top loaders he has used himself*

Post# 862586 , Reply# 136   1/18/2016 at 14:30 (977 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
if I had my way...

If I had my way, I would destroy modern washers and dryers. Based on videos and reviews I have seen, it is justified. Reviews and videos are proof enough. The only modern washer and dryer worth having is speed queen. A lot of modern washers and dryers destroy themselves anyway. The videos and reviews are true. They are garbage and so is the manufacturer's customer service. Energy star is a total lie! If energy star didn't exist, we wouldn't have problems. Worthless cleaning and drying! Error codes! Cheap Chinese parts! ow dare the EPA ruinwashing machines completely! It's getting worse!

Post# 862589 , Reply# 137   1/18/2016 at 14:45 (977 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

So, reviews are true?

Post# 862591 , Reply# 138   1/18/2016 at 15:02 (977 days old) by mjg0619 (Scranton, Pennsylvania)        

mjg0619's profile picture
If you really want to be a water hog, then I suggest you start doing all of your wash by hand. You'll use GALLONS upon GALLONS of water soaking, washing, scrubbing, rinsing, softening, and rinsing some more!

Jack up that water bill! Use all that gas or electricity to heat the water to whatever temperature your little heart desires! Burn off all that pent up energy scrubbing all those dried on spots off your tighty whities! THEN you can be environmentally friendly and hang your clothes out to dry!

(Over exaggerated use of exclamation marks done to make a point of just how ridiculous this whole thing is)

As a courtesy to our original poster, I've included some photographs of the items and methods he might want to brush up on. PLUS it will cost him less than ANY washing machine!

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 6         View Full Size
Post# 862592 , Reply# 139   1/18/2016 at 15:10 (977 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Videos are proof so perhaps someone with an HE toploader or frontloader can produce a video showing how much water is used for a full cycle, from dry clothes loaded to end of final spin, by directing the drain hose into a collection tub and then measuring out the collected water by an 8 oz. cup to confirm that the total is one 8 oz. cup.  :-)

Post# 862596 , Reply# 140   1/18/2016 at 15:46 (977 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
90% of the "videos" available to watch are from people who haven't a clue what they're doing with their machine in the first place, and are complaining about problems they clearly caused themselves by ignoring the user manual.

Reviews for most high efficiency machines are actually very high, and it's usually very easy to tell who is trolling just because they want something to complain about, or who obviously doesn't have any common sense and shouldn't be using the machine in the first place. It takes quite a bit of scrolling to find negative reviews that actually seem legitimate; i.e. ignoring people who use terms and phrases like "just a piece of junk" or "always/never".

There are a lot of people who prefer top loaders that use a lot of water, and there are a lot of people who love their top loaders and front loaders that use less, but for the most part there is respect from both sides with the understanding that both types of machines do their jobs and it's strictly a matter of personal preference. No one goes around name calling and bashing and trolling countless posts just to rant about the same thing over and over again.

Post# 862602 , Reply# 141   1/18/2016 at 16:16 (977 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
Online Reviews

johnb300m's profile picture
I cannot stress this enough. The vast majority of online reviews, like many others here have said, are full of CRAP.

I was heavily researching dishwashers/washers/dryers for months, and hardly found any machines with anything good to say.
HOWEVER, when you talk to technical people, smart people, associates at the stores, they will tell you that the actual reliability and satisfaction of these new products is very high. Like 80% plus.
THOSE are the people I choose to listen to.
Not some moron on Youtube railing on and on about his machine because he's an idiot.

ALSO, local water conditions have a huge effect on performance.

It's practically a law of physics that online reviews are almost purely complaints from angry people to vent.

Post# 862605 , Reply# 142   1/18/2016 at 16:32 (977 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
I always wondered if the 'SHORT BUS' was still I know where it stops.....

like a slinky, not really good for anything, yet brings a smile to your face to see one tumble down a flight of stairs!....

don't know about you guys, but looks like more than enough water to me.....

Post# 862629 , Reply# 143   1/18/2016 at 18:15 (977 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
Also, if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the new Cabrio design actually uses MORE water than the Oasis design did. At least it sure seems to, because it gradually adds water throughout the wash until their practically floating, and there is no longer a spray rinse. Even the water efficiency rating was lower than my Bravos XL. If I can find the real comparisons I'll post them.

Post# 862654 , Reply# 144   1/18/2016 at 19:40 (977 days old) by Gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

I'm used to all the water my SQ uses and that still looks like a lot of water to me! Barely 1 cup of water my @$$.

Post# 862665 , Reply# 145   1/18/2016 at 20:17 (977 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture

you need to realise that high efficency washers are here to stay, you might not like those kind of washers but by the time my mom and i will have replace or 2004 whirlpool duet set i have been doing research on the curent models 20015 2016 line of washer dryers and since my mom and i are looking to have a stack washer dryer planing on sticking with a front load washer if you went a non he washer you will have to look on craiglist for models dating 1950 to 1999 vintage and good old fashion direct drive washer dryer and learn how to restore them and do annual maitnance. Because maybe by next year 2017 there might not be many non he toploads on the market only he topload washers.

Post# 862824 , Reply# 146   1/19/2016 at 10:41 (977 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio))        
not sticking up but

glomain's profile picture
having a w/p duet pair since 2008 (which are now both pushed in a corner)they were the biggest pieces of crap I ever owned,error this error that & the dryer that had to be vacuumed every 2 months(cause of lint buildup)not to speak of the long drying cycles,im glad to have the speed queen set faster washes quick drying times & clean clothes,thats what their suppose to do,oh & the duets are for sale,any takers ? oh and by the way I have never needed a wash stick to push my clothes down into the water!(as seen in vid above)LOL

Post# 862874 , Reply# 147   1/19/2016 at 16:25 (976 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
stupid warranty and diagnostics!

The extended warranty is useless! I have heard complaints that technicians are rude. The consumer deals with rude customer service! I shouldn't have to buy a stupid extended warranty! What is the point of an extended warranty? The manufacturer blames the customer for not buying it! Appliance manufacturers are well known brands! You shouldn't have to buy the stupid extended warranty! Absolutely stupid! "You should've bought the extended warranty!" What kind of bs is that? Seriously? What is wrong with this picture? Washers and dryers that connect to the internet to dial out for help with service calls is the dumbest thing that has ever happened! It is designed to fail! It is the truth! The truth hurts.

Post# 862876 , Reply# 148   1/19/2016 at 16:29 (976 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Speed Queen for me!

I will only go with speed queen. Why? Because it actually washes like they should! They use decent amounts of water unlike these treehugger machines!

Post# 862886 , Reply# 149   1/19/2016 at 16:48 (976 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Times change

iheartmaytag's profile picture

Technology changes, we adapt.


Some feel that the wringer washer was the best in washing and water conservation.  Some still use these machines and are very happy with them.


There are some that would rather cook on a wood stove than a modern electric.  Others don't like hauling the wood and getting up an hour earlier each morning to boil water for their coffee (they don't like microwaves either).


What I found when I adopted a front load Maytag six years ago is:
1.  I am able to wash larger loads, thus fewer loads.

2.  The difference I notice in the cleanliness of my clothes is they are cleaner, less pretreating.

3.  I am using less water (almost 3,000 gallons a month less).

4.  I am using less detergent.


Rinsing, is up for debate, but I can add extra rinses; still sometimes feeling a good soak in the tub rinse would be better.


Longevity--I sincerely doubt todays electronic laden machines will live much beyond their planned life cycle.   


We either choose to adopt new technology, or we stay vintage.  There is nothing wrong with either option.


Now excuse me I have to stoke the fire and get Pa's supper ready before he brings the horses out of the field.


Post# 862898 , Reply# 150   1/19/2016 at 17:37 (976 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

I agree: To each his own. I prefer a modern front-loading HE washer---mine also happens to be a Maytag. Others would rather beat their clothes against a rock than use an HE washer. I get frustrated when people's rants are filled with inaccuracies, but such is life.

I realize I'm the fish out of water, here. AW was made by and for people into vintage machines. While I appreciate vintage appliances, I have no desire to own one, primarily because I haven't the skills/inclination to keep one working. The repairs/rebuilds undertaken by members are astounding; the collections magnificent---but I'll always be an observer when it comes to vintage appliances.

Post# 862903 , Reply# 151   1/19/2016 at 17:53 (976 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
jeez dude.....maybe try talking to a professional. All that stress and anger ain't healthy.
I'm already over the sale of GE Appliances to the Chinese.
I'll adapt, it's out of my hands.

Post# 862912 , Reply# 152   1/19/2016 at 18:19 (976 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
marketing trap

This person doesn't realize that's he's getting into a trap with these so-called washers. The flashy looks lured him in when he saw that promo.


Post# 862913 , Reply# 153   1/19/2016 at 18:20 (976 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture

Post# 862914 , Reply# 154   1/19/2016 at 18:22 (976 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
nothing but the truth

There was nothing but truth said. All washers and dryers of today are garbage! I would stick with washers and dryers with vintage electronics on it!


Post# 862916 , Reply# 155   1/19/2016 at 18:24 (976 days old) by Joeypete (Concord, NH)        
Hahahaha omg

joeypete's profile picture
Andrew too funny! My neighbor looks JUST like that. Every time I drive by my building I can see him in his unit on his computer. What he's looking at, I have no idea. Nor do I want to know lmao.

Post# 862937 , Reply# 156   1/19/2016 at 19:46 (976 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
I have to have one of those tiny little washers

iheartmaytag's profile picture

Where can I get one?

Are they floor demos?  How big a box would I need to sneek it out of the store if they refused to sell it to me?


What do you think the value of one would be?  Just planning if it would be grand theft, or simple shoplifting in case they won't sell. 

Post# 862956 , Reply# 157   1/19/2016 at 21:45 (976 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
"The carotid artery thickens with the stress of being right all the time."

Post# 863010 , Reply# 158   1/20/2016 at 06:02 (976 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I will go even further...

Abolish the EPA and all regulatory departments in the government, then make  appliances correctly, stoves that have pushbuttons, and knobs you don't have to push in to turn, electric outlets on the back splash, washers that use water and most especially dishwashers that use at least 15 gallons a load, peeing on dishes for 2 hours is silly, long live the 50 gallon a minute pressure of a vintage Kitchen Aid...I am the MOST anti green person you EVER met!!!AND MOST OF ALL, BAN A L L  Chinese imports, tell the American companies, Ok, you make it all here, or you don't sell it!

Post# 863016 , Reply# 159   1/20/2016 at 06:26 (976 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I would SECOND those motions!!!

Post# 863021 , Reply# 160   1/20/2016 at 07:12 (976 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Harley-- The local LG dealer has one sitting on the counter near the cash register. I'd steal it for you, but I'm still too young and pretty to go to jail, LOL

They are a super-cool little Susie Homemaker-type item. Have you checked e-bay?

Post# 863035 , Reply# 161   1/20/2016 at 09:21 (976 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture

times change back in the 1950 to 1999 non he toploads where good washers, but today in 2016 is an era for high efficency washers and over theyears models change so if you look at ge today line of models these are the models that are made today if you so went a non he washer then look on craiglist or used appliances stores like i said and buy vintage that you would have to restore or buy parts on sites like ebay and i am sure members on the site will agree with me that we can't stop progress i may live in canada but water in some us coutry you must pay for the water you use like a tax or pay a water bill

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Post# 863078 , Reply# 162   1/20/2016 at 14:20 (975 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
My 85

Kenmore 70 belt drive and 73 Lady Kenmore dryer wash just fine!!If they ever become completely worn out I might get a Speed Queen.I would love a front loader, but it will be a Westinghouse or a Bendix!!

Post# 863083 , Reply# 163   1/20/2016 at 14:46 (975 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
I just checked ebay

iheartmaytag's profile picture

There is one of the Tiny-Salesman sample LG machines listed for Buy it now $145. 


Don't have that kind of cash, Guess I'll have to steal one afterall. 

Post# 863103 , Reply# 164   1/20/2016 at 17:37 (975 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
guys, come to the realization....

your beating a dead horse....

theres a reason the 'block' feature was created, and unfortunately, this is one of them......

its give and take, and a lot of useful information......but note, the OP hasn't read one word of anything you guys have to say......

if you like a machine, let us know, if you don't, state your dislike, once and done, and move on......this is just turning into a run on sentence.....

wasn't there a thread in DL over this nonsense......

on to better viewing.....

Post# 863132 , Reply# 165   1/20/2016 at 19:08 (975 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
i think someone should ask robert to lock this thread

pierreandreply4's profile picture
i think a member who has access to the site pm system should pm or write to robert and request that this topic be lock before it turns into a flame war just being logical here

Post# 863147 , Reply# 166   1/20/2016 at 19:58 (975 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio))        

glomain's profile picture
said it all,i said what I had to say about MY he washer & dryer experience, & im done, let it rest & move on!!!!!!!!

Post# 863150 , Reply# 167   1/20/2016 at 20:13 (975 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

No reason to lock the thread or bother Robert about it. Ranting is only fun for the ranter if people react to it. Besides, how will we find out if Harley ever winds up stealing one of those toy LG washers if this thread gets locked? #freeharley

This post was last edited 01/20/2016 at 23:51
Post# 863192 , Reply# 168   1/21/2016 at 00:37 (975 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Can I add something?

Ok, some modern machines can be a POS, others can be much better than we expect.

The thing is, me got to be thankful we have washing machines.

I know a guy that just moved from Brazil and every night (including now by the way) he has to wash his uniform using a Brastemp Eggo (same The Laundry Alternative Eco Egg) because he simply can't have a full size washing machine yet and the machine the hotel has (Extended Stay America) Is a Speed Queen, but it's so nasty because of "lovely" guests he doesnt even want to get close to them.

And guess what. He's so happy with that tiny 0.2 cu. ft. capacity washer. He has something to do his laundry easier than by hand. one garment per load.

And then this guy squeezes his clothes by hand and hang them in the shower curtain to drip dry. He has to sleep with that awful sound of the water dripping from his jeans on a cast iron bathtub that looks like a can of sardines.

And i tell you more. This guy is me and exactly at this moment, 00:21 on Jan 21st 2016 what I would love to have is one of those The laundry alternative chinese made spin driers or that small twin tub they sell very cheap. because i leave work almost without feeling my legs so tired i get and I have to run 4 loads only to wash my uniform, sleep "roasting" with the furnace set to 80°F to dry the clothes for the next day and guess what. I'm not complaining.

And when i get my first paycheck, i have hundreds of other more important things to buy. a mattress, for example, because when I move to the apartment the company is renting for me I won't have any furniture. Luckily the apartment comes with stove, fridge and a dishwasher. Probably a POS BOL "el cheapo". and I'll love it because it will wash my dishes.

Someday I'll be able to get something better but for the moment, that's all i can have and I'm glad i can have this. Some people are so poor that they don't even have money to buy a box of Banquet frozen dinner or a ramen, did you know that? See how lucky I am? Today I left work and went to a restaurant called Pappadeaux just because i wanted to eat something different. When I arrived there I discovered they serve seafood, which I'm extremely allergic to. And guess who saved me. Yes, Albertson's and their huge aisle of frozen food.

If you don't like and don't want to have a HE top loader, that's ok, your house, your money, your rules. No one has the right to dictate what you should or you shouldn't do with your money. Other people might love or hate He top loaders, other may prefer washing their clothes on a river. So what? It's not your live, it's not your business!

And yesterday i spent two hours at home depot looking their washers and dryers. I saw some scary things and other things I loved. For example, i loved the Samsung top loaders, at the same time I loved the LG front loader with a square door and the dispensers on the top and the mini washer built in the pedestal.

Someday I'll buy one of them with MY MONEY, because i worked for MY MONEY and I will buy what I WANT. The only person in this world that, up to a certain point, can tell me to get a different brand or model is MY HUSBAND Darryl.

You have a good night, troll.

Post# 863204 , Reply# 169   1/21/2016 at 03:40 (975 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia)        
my LG Turbodrum

twinniefan's profile picture
Well then I guess I MUST dispose of my 9 year old, (still working fine) LG Turbodrum, as it is made by those evil, job stealing South Koreans and I will spend $2,500 Aus dollars on a Speed Queen, because they are the ONLY washing machines which wash like washing machines!, if not I will by an Australian made?, made? well I would if there was still an Australian made machine as it would be better than the crappy 9 year old LG, while I am at it I must also dispose of the 6 year old LG Top mount fridge and replace it with a GE, oh wait! I HAD a GE SBS which lasted 5 years,(and cost me $3000,) and replaced it with the LG, what on Earth was I thinking!!!
Mate, if you don't like LG and Samsung, DON'T BUY THEM THEN!!!!
As far as I am aware the US is still a reasonably democratic society in which one is free to choose whatever white goods one wants.

Post# 863205 , Reply# 170   1/21/2016 at 04:15 (975 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I still say, much as I have like the many many many top load washers I have had down thru the years, the new LG made front load washer & dryer I have right now out performs all of them using less water and holding more clothing than any machine I have ever had. With the 3 extra rinse setting, things are always rinsed very well and very clean with the steam treat option too. All with virtually no lint and spun so dry, it takes little time to dry them. I really have no complains at all about them so far. I have a service contract with Sears until 2020 to cover any repairs they may need until then. Time will tell I guess. As I have said before, I have never liked front load machines up till now. I just think most top load machines are trying to do something that top loaders were not designed to do, wash with very little water. And speed queen top loaders use a lot of water to do the same thing as my front loader, only they do not hold as large a load of clothes or do it quite as effectively. So I made the only logical choice I could see and bought what I have now. Sure the washing takes longer, but with larger loads the time difference is unimportant to me. They sure do come out clean and fresh!

Post# 863221 , Reply# 171   1/21/2016 at 06:48 (975 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        
This is like...

joeypete's profile picture
...beating a dead horse. Completely subjective because after using HE washers both TL and FL I can attest that they do work. It's a matter of opinion, whether anyone wants to admit that or not. Some people just can't think out of the box and that's sad. I'm very happy with my 29 year old Filter Flo set but if it should die, I'm not worried about having to buy anything new. I've done enough research that I'm positive I could replace it with something new that cleans just as well or better. And it doesn't have to be a Speed Queen either. :-/

Post# 863293 , Reply# 172   1/21/2016 at 12:52 (974 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
Lighter fluid on the fire >:-)

johnb300m's profile picture
Just to stir the pot; I'll go and say it one more time.
I think Speed Queen is over-rated.

(hissssssssssssssssssssssssssssss) ;)

Virtually all my dwellings except the private townhouse I lived in, in college, were Speed Queen laundries.
And they were broken, all, the, fricken, time.
In fact, Coinmach, the service company, still owes me $5.00 in refunds which they never paid me, because their machines broke down on me and I'd have to re-do loads.
It got so bad, I decided to inconvenience myself and do my laundry exclusively at the in-town Maytag laundromat.
They were full of Orbital TLs and Neptune washers.
They must've had 50 machines for standard laundry. And I think I only ever saw 1 or 2 broken washers and dryers.
And NOOOOO Neptune washer there ever broke down to my knowledge.
Did they have better maintenance? Maybe. IDK.

I would never spend my money on a private Speed Queen.
But guess what? I realize they're still decent machines. Not my preference.
And this is 'Murica dammit. Feel free to buy what you like. Heck! They're American made so I support that!
But still, I think they're over rated. And that's my opinion. My experience. Nothing more. I know SQ machines have treated others out there far better than me.

After just a few months with my new [evil] Maytag 5100 pair, I'm firmly in Front Loader world now. They're awesome. (Knock on wood).
Everything is clean. It sips water. Well rinsed.
And I've never used a dryer that dries so quickly and evenly in my life.
Even the pockets in jeans! I can't believe it.

So there's my additional nugget of troll food :D

Post# 863353 , Reply# 173   1/21/2016 at 19:00 (974 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio))        

glomain's profile picture

Post# 863357 , Reply# 174   1/21/2016 at 19:04 (974 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
I think Speed Queen's are excellent washers...there's no question...excellent in terms of durability and old school-ness lol. Cleaning performance, they're really average. It's all about what you want in a washer. I had horrible experiences with the SQ FL'ers in an apartment I had. Granted most people don't know crap about proper washer usage but those damn things went out of balance all the time. Drove me nuts.

I respect everyone's opinion but aside from that, I always do my own research and evaluate my own past experiences when making decisions about anything. Some people just like to get on a soap box, really without any good stats to back up their statements.

Post# 863371 , Reply# 175   1/21/2016 at 19:37 (974 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio))        
no soap box here

glomain's profile picture
joe, if that was aimed at what I said,having bought a set of speed queens I can see the difference in a couple loads,i have always been a gm 1-18 lover,but what I have owned since 2008.,has not been that great.not an employee of alliance, but being 50 plus yrs old, its the best I can find to old school,& damn it doesn't display some stupid error or suds have a ge ff set & you say you love why whine about people that love real washers?

Post# 863374 , Reply# 176   1/21/2016 at 19:44 (974 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
Hahaha, no it wasn't aimed at you at all. I was referring to the thread creator who can't seem to get past this. :-/

I love old/new washers all the same. I have gone through 3 in 1.5 years...because I like to try everything. I'll keep my FF until it is no longer useable...meaning, if it breaks, I probably won't fix it. I have a feeling that won't be anytime soon.

I'd very much consider a SQ TL if/when that happens. I think they're great...just not the end-all.

Post# 863384 , Reply# 177   1/21/2016 at 20:01 (974 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio))        

glomain's profile picture
sorry thought you ment I was on the soap box,didnt understand why.have a good one !

Post# 863427 , Reply# 178   1/22/2016 at 04:51 (974 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

John-- so, we both have GE dishwashers and Maytag Maxima-line washers. I love my 8100. Next up: Which refrigerator are we buying, LOL?

Post# 863434 , Reply# 179   1/22/2016 at 06:14 (974 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
darn it

askolover's profile picture
This is the new episode and I'm out of popcorn! Why am I out of popcorn! I guess I'll just have to eat peanut M&M's instead!
Andrew I love that troll picture!

Post# 863486 , Reply# 180   1/22/2016 at 10:11 (974 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
It must be a midwest thing! Haha. You're right.
Well, right now I inherited a basic Kenmore fridge from the old owners, but it's only 1yr old. So I'm good on fridges for a while.
BUT, I am looking at a new range next year for xmas. The existing one is beat to hell.
I was looking at a GE range of course....but now I'm not so sure I want to give them money. Maybe I'll look at a Maytag range.

I WAS going to get a set of GE right-height laundry pairs, but....they never would've fit in my tiny, 1980s laundry room. So I had to get a set of stackable Maximas. Which I'm loving btw. No buyers remorse at all.

Post# 863766 , Reply# 181   1/24/2016 at 05:39 (972 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

"I always wondered if the 'SHORT BUS' was still I know where it stops....."


I've been wondering to myself if a short bus was ever in this picture.....

Post# 864284 , Reply# 182   1/27/2016 at 10:30 (969 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Speaking of going by reviews

mark_wpduet's profile picture
---thinking back to 2005 when I bought my Duet Pair - Good Lord, if I had gone by the reviews you would have thought I was asking for trouble buying this machine based on reviews back then and the talk on the gardenweb forum back then....and admittedly, year 2 I had the control board replaced, but now I'm going on year 11 and I don't regret buying it....

reviews help some, but some people who review these new appliances just don't know that the blank they are talking about - you can totally tell in the review too. Some of the reviews, however, do seem legit and the person seems to know a good bit about the machine they are reviewing (much more so than when I bought mine)

Post# 864291 , Reply# 183   1/27/2016 at 11:13 (969 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
AWO is easier found than in the past thanks to google.....

if people doing research for reviews were looking for an honest opinion of pros and cons, they would come here....not to boast AWO....

but you have to admit, there has been a lot of help offered by skilled and/or knowledgeable people here, more than you will find in any one persons first hand experience with something like a FLer....just saying....

but always found it best, no matter what your buying, to seek advice from a service tech more than a salesman....

and experience has told us, a majority of machines faults lie with user error more than anything else...

Post# 864300 , Reply# 184   1/27/2016 at 12:42 (968 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
what counts is not the reviews it depndes on or needs

pierreandreply4's profile picture
its not the reviews that counts we buy a washer dryer base on or dayly everyday needs

Post# 864336 , Reply# 185   1/27/2016 at 15:14 (968 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

... for that reason I'll buy the cheapest washer I can find.

It will fit my budget and no matter how bad it is, it will be much better than running 4 loads only to wash my uniform in the "egg".

Now matter how poor it extracts, it will be better than squeezing my hand.

No matter how small it is, it will wash a pair of jeans.

No matter how cheaply made it is, it will be better than using a nasty washer at the laundromat.

No matter how poor is the rinse, i can repeat the cycle if it happens to need an extra rinse.

I want to have the control over the machine.... I'll probably ending up by buying one of those 1 cu ft Haiers.

Post# 864338 , Reply# 186   1/27/2016 at 15:21 (968 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Thomas, you may want to consider one of the Avanti/Madea machines......1.7 or larger would suit your needs best.....and matching dryer.....

hooks to sink, and can convert to permanent hookups....

Post# 864370 , Reply# 187   1/27/2016 at 17:38 (968 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

washman's profile picture
+1 Norgeway except I would add........franchise Keaton's BBQ chicken so all of 'murica can taste the most flavorful unique chicken ever made.

Post# 864393 , Reply# 188   1/27/2016 at 19:40 (968 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Problem Per se Is *NOT* Modern Washers

launderess's profile picture
But the conflicting set of circumstances domestic laundry appliance makers find themselves having to cope.

On the one hand you have governments mandating energy efficiency which really comes down to water (heated) use. On the other you have consumers unwilling to pay premium prices for what would be TOL equipment.

Look at vintage top, front, and even semi-automatic washers from late as the 1970's and you'll often find build quality that would be very expensive to produce today. Especially with union factory labor.

Whirlpool and Electrolux alone between their own patents and those of the companies they have gobbled up have some of the best designs for washing machines and dryers the world has ever seen. Whirlpool could reintroduce Maytag's "Dependable Care" or their famous "Surgilator" washers with all the bells and whatnot of yesterday; but at what cost? That and increased government meddling regarding energy use has pretty much killed off or is killing traditional top loader market.

As to the question which is better top or H-Axis; that ship sailed decades ago. There are reasons commercial laundries going back to the last century if not before chose H-axis washing machines.

Thor/Hurley Machine Company, Maytag and others all had early "side loading" washing machines for the home.

Post# 864398 , Reply# 189   1/27/2016 at 20:21 (968 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
My idea is

If it doesn't have a mechanical timer, im not having it! LOL

Post# 864405 , Reply# 190   1/27/2016 at 20:57 (968 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

washman's profile picture
Well even I, as the absolutus something or another Speed Queen cheerleader have to concur that people in the end will buy what they want. For some FL is the only way to go (and I would consider a SQ FL if I had the need). Others really are happy with their TL HE machine. So be it. Some of us like old school machines like the SQ.

I'm happy with mine. So is my dad. So are a lot of people. Some want/need 29 cycles and endless options. So be it. Ranting to them about it won't cause them to toss their machine and go buy a 70's era Whirlpool. Or a GE for that matter.

Besides, I am a homeowner now and I have lots of other fish to fry so to speak. And I'm all about Goodman union made furnaces and Bradford-White union made water heaters. Not so hot on Frigidaire ice boxes and my jury is still out on the Whirlpool glass cooktop electric. Still playing with it.

And I still like A&H liquid as my daily driver.

Post# 864419 , Reply# 191   1/27/2016 at 23:10 (968 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        
Arm & Hammer

That and Xtra are the worst detergents I've ever used. Grew up using A&H and thought it was bad then, tried it recently and they intensified the scent x 5 or something and it gives me a screaming headache, has a nasty musky odor to it.

Looking back that was the reason our AmanaQueen didn't clean like I thought it should, and certainly not as well as my SQ does now.

Post# 864504 , Reply# 192   1/28/2016 at 13:19 (967 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Yogi, thanks for the advice. I'll look for them and if the price is good, i'll get them.
The thing is, i'll try to keep it as cheap as possible for now so, i don't care if it's new or used or automatic or semi automatic, as soon as it spins.

Later i'll replace it with a brand new TOL washer and dryer i choose.

Frankly speaking, i don't know why i have some kind of "love relationship" with that micro-haier. I've never used it and i bet it's not the best machine one can have (it's probably the worst ever) but it's super cute. Don't blame me, yes, we got to admit that machine is cute, so small, and it looks so fragile... but yes, it's the cutest washer ever, after the Electrolux mini silent (that one that hangs on the wall and it's one of the best washers I've ever had)

And after i get a decent washer, i can keep it as a souvenir... I can use it as a second washer or even as a laundry basket in the bathroom or a wastebasket in the kitchen! LOL

Post# 864555 , Reply# 193   1/28/2016 at 19:10 (967 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Patronus Absolutus, Ben.

Post# 864565 , Reply# 194   1/28/2016 at 20:07 (967 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

washman's profile picture
I knew it was something like that.

Hi Frig!

Post# 864598 , Reply# 195   1/29/2016 at 04:20 (967 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

In the end, nothing stays the same. Everything moves on, supposedly forward, although I wonder sometimes...

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