Thread Number: 62831  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
A gorgeous new Whirlpool is coming my way!
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Post# 853897   11/27/2015 at 17:08 (1,087 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I couldn't resist any longer. From reading excellent reviews all over, to hearing from those on AW who now own Whirlpool's new dishwashers, KA, KM, and Maytag included, my curiosity and spark for something new struck me again. To be delivered on *hopefully* 12/04, a brand new WDT920SADE Whirlpool Gold dishwasher in black ice finish will be the new hot commodity in the household. This will be the first all stainless steel interior dishwasher I've owned, as well as the first hidden control panel as well, but I'm excited because of the beautiful design and look this machine has.

What about the Maytag-Voyager and the PowerClean you may ask? Well, I ADORE the PC, because it is in pristine condition and I worked my A-- off restoring it, and it works beautifully. I'd like to keep it that way, and not wear it out as a daily driver at its age of almost 15 years. Another reason is that I feel, while it does an exceptional job, the new detergents are designed for machines that utilize longer main wash times, to allow the enzymes to do their best. With the 12 minute MW on Normal in the PC, it can sometimes leave crud in a fully loaded silverware basket, even when loaded inside the rack. Sure, I could add the high temp option or use a heavier cycle, but I have this quirk that I'd much more prefer running a machine on its standard cycle for general everyday soil. Plus, more options/heavier cycles = more wear and tear, going back to the point about preserving my all time favorite dishwasher design. So it will be kept in the designated closet cubby spot for my "spare" dishwasher, so no elements will harm her. One day when I have a bigger kitchen or we build a house again like we did this one, I'll make sure there is a spot on both sides of the sink, one for the PC, one for the current daily driver. With the timeless sleek look of this PC and its black exterior, it will never look tacky in any kitchen.

The Maytag, while I also love its beautiful looks and flawless performance, will most likely be sold, as my biggest annoyance with that machine is the tiered upper rack. Nothing but wasted space in my opinion. I've been looking left and right on Craigslist and other sites for a comparable Point Voyager machine, a WP/KM/KA with similar colored racks that could be harvested for parts to combine into an ultimate dishwasher, but luck wasn't on my side, and the urge for something new and top of the line was much more powerful. It will still be a perfect machine for anyone who often washes tall pots and cookie sheets in their machine, and could care less what the rack layout is, and its quietness is another plus.

Back to the new WDT920, I've been thinking a lot about the new design now that there are numerous videos of the inner workings and countless praising reviews. My opinion of the manual filters has changed to where I would actually prefer it since they clean themselves well for the most part. If a piece of glass or something falls in, I'd rather not have to take the pump assembly apart. What I'm really drawn to with this machine is the silverware spray bar, which I feel is an excellent idea to address the issue of "dead spots" in the door. The numerous adjustments in both top and bottom racks are a nice addition; I've never had that in a machine growing up or that I've owned myself. The lower rack's rear row of tines tilts or closes down, and the front two rows can widen or narrow. The top rack has collapsing tines on both sides, and can adjust up or down a level. This also has the TotalCoverage spray arm with the alternating jet holes, which should be an interesting feature. The gearing is all underneath from what I can tell, and because they rotate so slowly with the rotation of the spray arm, they shouldn't bind or wear out easily. Seems alot more simple than the motorized arms, which I'm not a fan of. Other than that, the motor seems decent enough, larger than the lower end models, and the whole machine in general has a gorgeous look to it. I'm excited to get to load it up to the brim with all kinds of nasties.


Post# 853899 , Reply# 1   11/27/2015 at 17:34 (1,086 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Congrats Andrew! Can't wait to hear your observations on the new machine. Funny, I was just looking online at a WP dishwasher just like the one you picked, but it has front controls (I don't like top control dishwashers for some reason). It had the silverware basket spray too and I thought that was so cool!

I'm so excited for you. :-)

Post# 853913 , Reply# 2   11/27/2015 at 19:28 (1,086 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        

I was wondering if you can upload videos of it working on the inside when you get the dishwasher. Thank you.

Post# 853921 , Reply# 3   11/27/2015 at 21:00 (1,086 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I will do my best for sure! Hopefully I'll be able to borrow the GoPro again from my father in law.

Post# 853939 , Reply# 4   11/28/2015 at 00:23 (1,086 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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I have to agree with you on the tiered upper rack. I freaking LOVE my Maytag dishwasher and this is the ONLY thing I would change about it.

Can't wait to hear about this from you since you are the expert with dishwashers.

Post# 854033 , Reply# 5   11/28/2015 at 16:24 (1,086 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I've never liked hidden top control panels.  I was pleasantly surprised with my particular models' panel design and installation setup, my digital display is always visible and at a glance I can see how much time has elapsed from the beginning and how much time is left.  So I was pleased. 

Post# 857084 , Reply# 6   12/17/2015 at 12:12 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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So...sad news. Actually this happened last Tuesday (a week and two days ago), but I a) have just been frustrated at the situation and didn't feel like ranting just yet, and b) have also been super busy..

Anywho, the dishwasher came in on the 8th. The guys pulled up in the truck, I walked out to greet them, and they rolled it back on the dolly, lowered the platform, and wheeled it into the garage. I was so excited because the box didn't have a single crushed corner or wrinkle, and when he cut the bottom lines and lifted it away, everything looked great. I quickly looked everything over, pleased that there wasn't a single scratch in view, and signed off on it. After they leave, I open the door and get my dolly out, tilt the dishwasher off the shipping base, and proceed to wheel it into the house. While I was bringing it in, the door kept trying to open on its own, but because WP puts that plastic bag like covering over the door, I figured the plastic was keeping the latch from fully locking. I get it into the kitchen, slip the plastic bag from over the door, and to my horror.....

Post# 857085 , Reply# 7   12/17/2015 at 12:13 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Post# 857086 , Reply# 8   12/17/2015 at 12:14 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Post# 857087 , Reply# 9   12/17/2015 at 12:14 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Post# 857088 , Reply# 10   12/17/2015 at 12:15 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Post# 857089 , Reply# 11   12/17/2015 at 12:22 (1,067 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Thanks awful Andrew, I'm so sorry. How could they not notice that before putting it in the box! Good grief....

Post# 857090 , Reply# 12   12/17/2015 at 12:23 (1,067 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

They tightend the heck out of that screw...

Post# 857093 , Reply# 13   12/17/2015 at 12:47 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Long story short, the right top corner of the door is crushed in, so much so that there is an indentation on the inner frame from the bolt on the corner of the door. The door can close but doesn't latch or fully seal. So, I called Goedecker's (ordered it from them because of the Black Friday price they had it for, and because it would be delivered faster than anywhere locally), and they were extremely apologetic, and had a replacement ordered right away. The only problem is there's really no way to rush a delivery on something like this, so I've yet to receive an ETA for the new one. For the time being, I've had the joy of getting to look at this brand new beauty just sit in our guest bedroom with a sad door.

But!! I'm trying to stay positive. So I do have thoughts on it so far, despite not being able to actually "use" it.

First off, the build quality is impressive, as it should be for a TOL appliance. This stainless steel is SOLID. Even more so than my grandfather's Kenmore Elite-Voyager. Doesn't make a ting or a hollow sound at all when you thump it or tap it with your knuckles, instead it's a solid "thunk". The insulation is nice a dense too, and it's all over, even the bottom. The two racks are very nice, the bottom has an adjustable row to widen the tines for large bowls and "bowl plates", and the rear row of tines will tilt or lay down of course for the TargetClean spray bars (formerly known as PowerScour/TurboZone). The TotalCoverage wash arm is interesting. The gears are inside, but it takes a lot of turning the gear by hand to make the other gears and the diverter bar even move a small amount, which means it takes quite a few rotations before the spray pattern changes. It looks so sleek and cool though, easily the nicest wash arm design I've seen, in my opinion, second only of course to the PowerClean's lightning bolt arm.

The upper rack is a breath of fresh air to me, after coming to despise the rack in the Voyager-Maytag. The two outer rows of tines will fold down, and the entire rack adjusts up or down just by lifting and locking into place; there are no levers or knobs to use. I probably won't adjust it that often, but the new mechanism is interesting. The upper wash arm is the same as all WP/KitchenAids, but looks sleek and simple, with plenty of fan jets, so there shouldn't be any coverage issues.

The silverware spray bar is by far my favorite feature. In my desperation to at least experience some part of the new machine, I took it out and brought it to the shower and used the hose to force water through it, where I was pleased to see how evenly distributed the jets are. The water also angles outward toward the door, directly to the silverware, which is a relief because at first look, it seems like the bar isn't positioned far enough over the basket. It should prove to be quite an improvement to the in-door silverware basket.

Post# 857095 , Reply# 14   12/17/2015 at 12:57 (1,067 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Sorry for the divided posts. The bulk-uploader compresses the pictures so much that they're a pixelated mess. Uploading them separately keeps their resolution intact.

I do have pictures of the interior and underside that I'll try to upload a little later on.

But yeah, something is just fishy about the whole thing. I wasn't a fan of the delivery guys at all. Just too nonchalant and in a hurry. But what gets me is that the box doesn't have any sign of crushing.

To have warped the door and the frame to that extent, it had to have either been dropped, or backed into with a forklift or something. Who knows. I'm glad they're being so cooperative in making it right though. It's just a bummer to see a gorgeous machine like that just sitting there, haha. It's making my poor little Maytag seem so basic. Don't get me wrong, LOVE the Maytag, I just hate the racks.

Post# 857234 , Reply# 15   12/18/2015 at 05:38 (1,066 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Wow Andrew

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isn't it amazing the odds of something like this happening are so slim...and for it to happen to a dishwasher geek is crazy....
I can fully understand the relief not to see the tiered upper rack. I'm with you on that. That's the ONLY thing I hate about my Maytag, but I love everything else about it and I just work around it. I was, like you, very surprised of the solid feel it had - so I can imagine this to be even better. Glad you're able to get a replacement. Can't wait to hear how you like it when all this is over and it's finally installed. I'm sure the waiting is least you're too busy to worry much over the waiting.....

Post# 857247 , Reply# 16   12/18/2015 at 07:32 (1,066 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Happened to Me Too...

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Ordered a Bosch DW in Black. Supposed to be a ship-to-store order taking 3 days or less. Took over six weeks to get it. Got the machine, carton looked fine. Signed off on it. Unboxed, looked fine. Took it into the house and began install. Wasn't until it was connected, I noticed a dent on the lower left rear of the tub. Almost exactly the width of a fork-lift prong. Contacted the store and was told they couldn't help me, I had to deal with the manufacturer directly because it was a special order item to get them model in black.

Went ahead and installed it as is and it worked. But every time I opened it and saw the dent, I would cuss. Sold it on CL for a considerable loss and bought a Miele. Never looked back and never set foot in that appliance store again!

Good luck with your replacement!


Post# 857281 , Reply# 17   12/18/2015 at 10:53 (1,066 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Happened to me as well. I ordered my Bosch dryer online. Received it within a few days, box looked flawless... and after unpacking found two small scratches down to the metal. I called the store and they immediately refunded me $85.

During my internship at Whirlpool, one of the employees took me on a tour through the warehouse and was unpleasantly surprised to find six Duet washers stuck in a clamp lifter because its driver went to lunch and just left the machines hanging there. :(

Post# 857372 , Reply# 18   12/19/2015 at 02:43 (1,065 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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Let's see, the last time I bought an appliance was my Maytag dishwasher, and it was employee family discount...they asked where I wanted it delivered and it was sent to the Greenville Ohio Kitchenaid Mixer factory where family member works....they then opened the box and examined it before they signed off and took it back to their house, where I then went to pick it up.....

Back in 2005, when my Duet Pair was delivered, I did the same thing, opened the boxes in the garage...

I really have not bought very many appliances in my life since where you rent , they are usually already there.....

In my life, not counting the appliances that came with my house, I've bought 2 dishwashers,3 washing machines, 3 dryers

after seeing this post -for sure next purchase, I'm going to make sure it's triple checked before someone signs for it.

Post# 857374 , Reply# 19   12/19/2015 at 03:17 (1,065 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Still meaning to post the other pictures I have. Sorry about that. I'm going to definitely try tomorrow.

The delivery guys came today to pick it up. It seems to me it would have been more cost effective just to pick it up when the new one is delivered, but that's their business. I've been on the phone almost every other day trying to get an ETA for when the new one will be here. Apparently they had this replacement sent directly from Whirlpool, and are using a separate "specialty" shipper to send it straight from the warehouse to here. This delivery service doesn't use tracking numbers or anything, but I did get a call today confirming that Monday will be THE day for sure. Fingers crossed. This thing better be worth this 23 day headache.

Yes, definitely remember to triple check everything before signing. If you're anything less than satisfied, deny it or write "damaged" on the signature line. Most delivery guys will try to rush you and just drop and go but they are required to allow you to fully inspect, so don't let them pressure you in to a hurry. My mistake was not completely pulling that plastic bag off the door and actually opening the machine. I won't be overlooking that next time.

I'm hoping this will be my last appliance purchase for a good while. Granted, yes, the Bravos and this dishwasher were completely pleasure purchases because I had saved money, they weren't "needed", but still, with the hassle that the Bravos ended up being and all the struggle with getting it replaced, and then this, I'm just going to conclude that my terrible luck is not going to let up at all for anything, and the next major appliance will be because it's necessary, and I'll let my husband take care of the process. Maybe my bad luck and his good luck will balance out.

Post# 857496 , Reply# 20   12/20/2015 at 00:15 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Okay. Trying this again. When using the multiple uploads, the pictures look horribly grainy, even when clicking Full size. So I'll just do a handful individually.

First, LOVE the insulation on this thing. The padding is dense. I think the quilted texture looks quite nice, and may help with sound reduction? I'm not sure. But with all of this adhered padding, in addition to the blanket and the thick padding on the kick panel, it should be extremely quiet.

Post# 857498 , Reply# 21   12/20/2015 at 00:16 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Super excited to have a cable and spring suspension for the door. Definitely nicer than the little rubber friction pads they use on the plastic tub models. My Maytag has those, and I already had to replace them once because they eventually break off.

Post# 857499 , Reply# 22   12/20/2015 at 00:18 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Next, partial money shot, but I hadn't taken the packing and handle out yet. I don't think I got a picture of the interior as it's intended to be seen, but there will be plenty of time for that when the new one is here.

Post# 857500 , Reply# 23   12/20/2015 at 00:26 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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The new dispenser design. All TOL Maytags and KAs are using this new version as well. I've always liked the flip open design, but every manufacturer seems to be going with the sliding door. There is a rubber seal that can be felt under the cover, and you can see where the "top" of the cup is partially open for water to run down and collect to begin dissolving the contents. It definitely has a Bosch look to it, but it's growing on me. The prewash section can't be anymore than a tablespoon, but honestly I'm surprised new machines even have one with the push to use tablets and pacs. The Soak & Clean cycle instructions do say that adding prewash detergent will help though.

Post# 857501 , Reply# 24   12/20/2015 at 00:30 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I like the sturdiness of the racks. The lower has the adjustable front rows, and the collapsing/tilting rear row for the TargetClean spray. I tested each of my large soup plates (?) and it allows them to stand up without tipping, which should be nice. I've never had adjustable racks in any machines I've owned so it should be fun to test them out.

*funny note: I was pushing down on the door just so the rack would sit level. Because the door was warped so badly, the rack would always derail off the side when pulled out.

Post# 857502 , Reply# 25   12/20/2015 at 00:39 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Money shot of the tub bottom. There's something about the color blue they are using that is just gorgeous to me. Very clean and modern looking. And that wash arm is just fascinating to me. The holes do look bigger than I expected them to be. It's also quite heavy and balanced, which pleases me even more with regard to build quality.

I've had quite a change of heart over the past could of years for the removable filters. I mean, in all honesty, I've never been one to leave giant chunks of food on dishes in the first place. As long as I can load it to the brim with scraped but still filthy dishes, just as I do with the PowerClean and Voyager, and have clean dishes, I will be happy. I'm sure it will have no problem back flushing the filter, and compared to the early manuals for this design when it first came out, the instructions are that the filter only needs cleaning every 4 months or so if you scrape but don't rinse. That's a pretty decent indicator that they've worked out the kinks over the years.

Post# 857504 , Reply# 26   12/20/2015 at 00:51 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Now for the under business.

The motor is larger than I expected, but unless mistaken I'm pretty sure it's shaded pole. Rated .9 amps. At least it's not the same drain pump style induction motor that the BOL models have. I have to keep an open mind about its power though. The BPM motors in the Oasis and in most TL/FL HE washers are slimline and compact, but they dish out some major torque for their size. Perhaps this motor will prove that size isn't everything.

I'm digging this chunk of concrete on the bottom. Their claim is that it helps absorb sound and vibration and it seems to add to the sturdiness of the pump assembly. Also note that almost the entire tub bottom has padding adhered to it.

Post# 857506 , Reply# 27   12/20/2015 at 00:53 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Post# 857507 , Reply# 28   12/20/2015 at 00:53 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Post# 857508 , Reply# 29   12/20/2015 at 00:55 (1,064 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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And then this new style power connection box. Now there's a bolt close to the foot to unscrew, and then the whole box tilts out to give a little more flexibility when setting up the wiring.

Post# 857509 , Reply# 30   12/20/2015 at 00:57 (1,064 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Mine has the same detergent dispenser design.  I like this much better. 

Post# 857511 , Reply# 31   12/20/2015 at 01:17 (1,064 days old) by A440 ()        

Sorry to hear about your damage!  That always is a huge let down when you have been waiting so long to get to use your new machine.


Looks like a very well made machine.  It looks as though the design and casing is made by Whirlpool.  Everything else appears to be made in China.   Are the Pumps, electronic boards, etc. made by "Whirlpool of China"?  If not I can't get over that 1/2 of these new "American" machines made by Whirlpool are parts from China.  It all puts a spin on "Made in America" to me. 


I hope your replacement will be perfect. 


Post# 857526 , Reply# 32   12/20/2015 at 04:36 (1,064 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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Yeah I was just thinking about the Chinese aspect myself.  Looks good on the surface though!  I looked at an Elux at Lowes a while back and was surprised to see it was made in China.  I hope it holds up well for you Andrew.

Post# 857539 , Reply# 33   12/20/2015 at 07:00 (1,064 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Thanks for the detailed pictures! I must say American dishwashers sure look different externally than their European counterparts.

Post# 857541 , Reply# 34   12/20/2015 at 07:10 (1,064 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I wonder what will happen

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to this beautiful machine when it gets returned to Whirlpool? I wonder if they just trash the entire thing, or use parts? Such a waste if they trash it....

Oh, and Andrew, I'm like that too. My dishes do not get rinsed at all, and sometimes they are in there 3 days before the machine is on. But I don't put a plate in there that has servings of food or whatever on it. Like if someone eats, and they clean their plate with basically nothing left on it but a dirty plate, that goes straight in....there may be a crumb on it, but if there is any food left, it gets scraped off, then loaded.

Post# 857556 , Reply# 35   12/20/2015 at 11:03 (1,064 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Very nice. It looks as sturdy and tank-like as the GE Profile dw I just got.
I will say, WP's legs and rear wheels look much better.
The GE's feet threads weren't even made straight so the legs are crooked. No wheels.
They both seem to use the same VERY thin poly drain hose.
Seems very easy to crack and leak over time >:-{
Like this, my GE has all Chinese motors, but the optic sensor, door latch and diverter seem to be NA or EU.
I do know that GE makes all the arms, racks, tubs, panels, themselves.
Possibly the same for WP.
But all the parts that all manufacturers see as "commodities" now, like boards, motors, switches, harnesses, tubes, etc, are all bought from vendors now.

It IS interesting at least, that the GE main pump is a custom design.
I hunted it down at Johnson Electric's website and they have no stock equivalent. (Yes, a Chinese firm with an "American Name, becoming popular to thwart their source)
I'd imagine WP does the same in order to customize flow and pressure.

All in all, can't wait to see your test runs.
And can't wait to share about the GE when I finally move in.

Post# 857579 , Reply# 36   12/20/2015 at 17:22 (1,064 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I've never used Normal.  I'll opt. for the Sensor Cycle as first choice and it does quite well making adjustments based upon soil sensed and ensuing results.  Based upon previous conversations with you, I doubt you would ever have anything needing the Heavy Cycle.  I've been impressed with how well the 1-Hour cycle cleans--even oatmeal that's had a bowl with remnants sitting in there for 24 hours.  It's a huge improvement over my old machine's 30 minute cycle.  Plus I can opt. for heated dry too. I use my dry cycle a lot more.  Usually during some point of the dry cycle it has a little fan that comes on and stays on for an hour after cycle completion.  I almost get giddy because it reminds me of old KAs and RR Maytags.  Even concave tops of mugs, cups, and glasses emerge bone dry. And what really blew me away was the big dimple on my 6 quart KA mixer's bowl bottom (when facing down) is bone dry.  Never happened on my old machine. 

Post# 857594 , Reply# 37   12/20/2015 at 18:26 (1,063 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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The fan drying is the only thing I'm disappointed Whirlpool doesn't offer. There isn't a vent at all on this machine. There is a vent on the left side of the door but looking through it, there looks to be cables from what I can tell, so no way it's for carrying moist air from the tub. It won't be horribly missed though. Neither of my machines now have any sort of active venting, and I never use heated drying. I just prop the door open once the cycle is finished, and everything usually airs out over night.

I am eager to try the Sensor cycle on this though. And you're right, I doubt I'll need to use the Heavy cycle at all. Loads are typically fully packed and filthy, but nothing baked on. Usually just sauces and such that may be dried on for a few days.

I found it interesting looking at's opinion on this machine. They judge its cleaning power by how well it removes cheese that has been burned to a concrete char, and while they gave this machine an "okay" on cleaning, they gave an Electrolux a raving review, and the picture of the bowl and remaining burnt cheese they showed were very similar. I myself never put anything in that has been scorched to a crisp. That's what a little hot water and soap and a little soaking is for. Despite reviews by them and Consumer Reports, user reviews seem to rave about it. There is even a blog run by a lady that wrote an entire article about hers and how she's amazed that there's no need to rinse anything.

Another thing that I find interesting is the lack of a top-rack or bottom-rack wash only option. As a matter of fact it's not available on any Whirlpool models, or on the comparable Kenmore Elites with the same PowerWave spray arm and such. I guess that has become a premium KitchenAid feature or something, who knows.

Post# 857608 , Reply# 38   12/20/2015 at 19:52 (1,063 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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To my knowledge, mine is the first Kenmore Elite to offer both top rack and bottom rack only options. 

Post# 857668 , Reply# 39   12/21/2015 at 09:08 (1,063 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Appnut -

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I'm guessing Auto clean on my Maytag is the sensor cycle? That's all I use and it works great. Mine doesn't have a vent either, which I found ODD because I thought dishwashers needed a vent. If my dishwasher had a fan, I would LOVE that..I've never EVER used a dishwasher that had a fan. I never use the drying cycle either, I just prop the door open and let them dry on their own which is pretty fast.....With heated dry, there is always water left in gaps so I just never bothered with that.

Post# 857684 , Reply# 40   12/21/2015 at 10:42 (1,063 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

The pumps are no longer made by Askoll? On my Kenmore all the pumps are made by Askoll and those are made in Mexico. By the looks of that pump it just looks like a generic model.

Post# 857793 , Reply# 41   12/22/2015 at 01:20 (1,062 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Well today has been an awesome day!! The dishwasher got here right at noon, as expected, and it was even strapped in its box onto two pallets to keep it stable. I appreciated the extra thought to make sure it got here in perfect shape, and it did. :)

I spent quite a while making sure every thing possible was leveled, centered, and installed perfectly, and proceeded to cook homemade chicken alfredo for the husband and my friend who is here for a couple of days, and already washed every dish I dirtied except the big stainless steel skillet in a maiden run: Sensor cycle with no options and no heat dry. Estimated display time was 2:35 but it ended up being around 2:10 or so, and everything was spotless and the stainless interior sparkled like jewelry!! :)

I have pictures, but with all the hecticness I couldn't take as many as I wanted, and right now I'm on my phone so I'll upload and give many more details tomorrow. Bottom line for now: I am beyond impressed!!! The machine is gorgeous, inside and out, all my dishes fit beautifully, some better than both the Maytag and the PowerClean, it is UNBELIEVABLY quiet, but when you press your ear on the door you can hear a good deal of water action going on. The load washed wasn't fully packed but had enough to make use of space, and we made sure to leave them filthy. At the end, not a spot was found, and the filter was clean as when it was new out of the box. :)

I do have one concern that I just discovered, however, that I was hoping to get some input from those that have this removable filter design Whirlpool/Kenmore/KitchenAid: when I removed the filter, there was water remaining in the sump about halfway full, just above the optical sensor. I'm not sure if that means water is back flowing through the check valve because of how far it has to go to the drain, or if it's possibly just water draining from dishes/the tub and wash arms and such and collecting in the sump. Then again, it could be that I'm not used to being able to see the absolute bottom of a dishwasher so easily, and it's a normal amount of residual water. Most dishwasher until now have always been closed systems that required tools to disassemble, but upon taking apart machines like the Point Voyager or the dreaded GE Nautilus we had, there has always been a good amount of water that is just hidden by the sump grate and such. So, my question is how much water is normally left in the filter sump after a wash? The water seems crystal clear, and the dishes were clean so I'm sure there's no real issue, but I just want to be sure before I go through pulling it back out to route the hose a different way. Thank you so much for any help!

Post# 857806 , Reply# 42   12/22/2015 at 05:45 (1,062 days old) by NObr ()        

Hey Andrew, Hoe is the performance of your dishwasher. I am planning to buy a new one as my old one got damaged while we moved to Toronto. I am planning to go to Best Brand Appliances in Toronto, I've seen their website ( ) and they seem to have a variety of items. Which dishwasher would you suggest? We are a family of and would be using the dishwasher almost every day. Please help me on this.

Post# 857854 , Reply# 43   12/22/2015 at 12:05 (1,062 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        
Water in the sump

Water in the sump is normal. It keeps it there to prevent the seals from drying out and cracking. When we got our Kenmore 15113, I was very worried that there was something wrong too, but then again, there's a little door in the drain line where it connects to the sump which would prevent back flow. IMO, this is normal, nothing to worry about. P.S Congratulations on the new dishwasher! Just by reading that post I can tell you are very pleased with it! Keep us updated on it!

Post# 858176 , Reply# 44   12/24/2015 at 13:54 (1,060 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

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The water in the sump is like said above, to keep seals from cracking.  My manual also said that it was to keep the sensor wet.


My Kitchenaid doesn't have a "sensor cycle" but the sensor operates on all cycles except the one hour wash.  So Heavy, Normal and Light the sensor is operational.


Great that your new dishwasher arrived in time to give it a holiday workout.



I must be the only one, but I actually liked the tiered rack on my Maytags.  You could put a cookie sheet, or cutting board on one side on the bottom rack, but still get your tall glasses on the top rack on the other side.

Neither of the Maytags I had had adjustable racks to this feature came in handy.




Post# 858179 , Reply# 45   12/24/2015 at 14:23 (1,060 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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You're not the only one - I like tiered racks as well. :)

Post# 858236 , Reply# 46   12/24/2015 at 22:34 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Picture time!!!!

Hope everyone is having a nice holiday so far. :) I figure since we've done a bunch of family stuff today and now we're waiting to go to Waffle House at midnight with my husband's family (a tradition for some reason, I don't ask questions), this would be a perfect time to finally sit down and post photos and first impressions thus far.

Since the uploader isn't a fan of the photos from the iPhone 6S, I imagine because of size, I'm going to try bulk uploading a few at a time, and then the ones that need more detail will get uploaded solo.

First up, just photos of the machine in general. This is in-between a night of homemade chili and breakfast/lunch dishes, so I tried to get shots of both racks and the interior and exterior. And a couple of puppy Jamey are thrown in. :) The finish on this beautiful machine has a great reflection to it.

A side note: The handle bar on this is quite hefty. I mean, I'm talking could-be-a-weapon-in-a-zombie-apocalypse material. Unfortunately, try as I may, I couldn't get the left side to completely sit flush. I'm not sure if it's the handle or if the front panel is ever so slightly off, though by sight it looks perfect, but the only way it can be noticed is if you look directly down the front of the machine. From just looking though, it looks just fine. After the ordeal of getting it, I was not about to make a fuss over such a small detail when the rest of the machine has turned out beautifully.

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Post# 858237 , Reply# 47   12/24/2015 at 22:39 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Now for high resolution single photos.

I'm loving these "premium rack glides". It's not ball bearings, but it almost feels like it. There is no wiggle to the rack when pulling it in and out, and the glides themselves are quite sturdy. The height adjuster is also nice, though I usually will probably leave it in the high position anyway, unless there happens to be a huge pitcher or something needing washed up there.

Post# 858238 , Reply# 48   12/24/2015 at 22:42 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Another cool feature that is new to me, the rack stops now flip open for removing the rack. No more struggling with those stupid plastic clips that produce plastic shavings everytime they're popped out. They have a nice solid "thunk" when opened and closed, another plus to the "feel" of the build quality of this machine.

Post# 858240 , Reply# 49   12/24/2015 at 22:50 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Here we have the inside of the TotalCoverage spray arm. There are three gears that I can see, but only one that protrudes far enough in the middle to rotate against the stationary pinion. It takes around 15-20 rotations before the spray jets change, from what I can hear by pressing my ear against the door. This thing is so dead silent that in order to tell what's going on, you have to sit directly in front with no ambient noise whatsoever.

What is interesting is that when the lower arm is active, its speed varies. For the first ~20 rotations you'll hear one rhythm, and then suddenly the rhythm will slightly speed up and you'll hear a more aggressive spray against the door. From putting the arm against the water faucet and from what can be seen from WP's demo, it looks like the majority of spray jets are open at one time, so I'm thinking that when it speeds up slightly, it's concentrating down to a handful of jets for a time, which sends more pressure to the outmost holes, which are the main drive for rotation.

Post# 858241 , Reply# 50   12/24/2015 at 22:57 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Here we have the nice "electric blue" display. It has a nice glow that emits from the underside of the counter when it's running. Honestly, I have no complaints about 2.5 hours on a Normal cycle. I think the Voyager had almost that same cycle time, but there was also no time display. I think having a display is what makes people more aware of the long durations in the first place.

Then there is the mega "put all your burnt on crockery and soak it out" cycle. By default it's about 7.5 hours, with all available options, 8:15. Keep in mind, this cycle prewashes for nearly five hours, but most of it is soaking. And keeping the water just warm enough for any prewash detergent to work/soils to melt. I can't see myself needing this ever, but one day I may try and give it every filthy thing imaginable to test it out.

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Post# 858244 , Reply# 51   12/24/2015 at 23:15 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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And that's all I have for now. Other thoughts, let's see...

Again, the silence of this thing. It's quiet enough that it's hard to tell it's on, and yet has just the perfect noise level when you sit in front of it that you know there is some decent water movement inside. With no dishes at all, when you press your ear to the door it sounds like the water is beating the crap out of the interior, and both arms seem to have a nice rotation speed, around the same as a Voyager or PowerClean.

Also, despite the motor "rating" of 22 min. on, 10 min. off, there is no pausing that I can hear aside from typical sensing pauses. It runs continuously, and is only off when draining or filling of course. It shifts the diverter valve every five minutes or so at first, and then longer in-between during the main wash and final rinse. The pattern under normal settings seems to be Upper-TurboZone-Lower-Silverware Spray, pausing at the TurboZone and Silverware for around 5-6 seconds in-between each shift. I'm wondering if the ratings on these motors are for "dry" running only, as in if they were just plugged in naked straight from the factory and run full throttle. Evidently, Whirlpool has possibly engineered it with better cooling/lower intensity/what-have-you that allows it to run longer, but it seems to have plenty of pressure, so I'm not complaining. If it does its job well, what's to gripe?

From what I know so far, I'm impressed. The machine is gorgeous inside and out, has everything I've ever wanted as far as cycles and loading accommodations (though the lack of Top Rack Only and Rinse Only cycles is odd, but it doesn't concern me), and seems well built to last quite a while. I'm planning to put it through rigorous testing with the next several loads, but I'm much more confident now after "seeing" it work.

My biggest concern is the longevity of the diverter valve system. It seems like a lot of shifting for each cycle, but they've also been using this system for a while now in all their brands, except Maytag of course. Maybe they've worked out bugs and it will prove to be a reliable little mechanism.

Post# 858245 , Reply# 52   12/24/2015 at 23:24 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Last thing I promise...

This is the current water level in the sump. I know there will always be water, and should always be water, left over, but I expected it to be just above the lower "ring" the the filter sits into. That's what it appears to be in repair videos/cleaning tutorials I've found trying to get the correct idea.

It's probably perfectly fine and normal, but I just wanted to be 100% sure so I'm not having to worry that dirty wash water is back tracking into the clean rinse. Again, I'm sure there is always this much water or more left over in a PowerClean/Voyager/any dishwasher without a removable filter system, but it's almost completely out of sight. Perhaps I'm just not accustomed to seeing the absolute bottom of the machine to where all the water is centralized.

Bottomline: I just REALLY don't want to have to pull it back out after getting it installed perfectly level and symmetrical, haha. Again, because of the distance needed for the hose to reach the drain, the drain hose itself had to be detached from the loop brackets on the left side, but I did push the hose up the side as far as possible to still create any loop at all, and I know it probably goes 1.5-2 ft up from the floor, just not as high as the loop bracket would have it. The PC and Voyager never had a problem with draining or backflow with this setup, and the hose makes it's full arch over the top of the cabinet interior and loops down to the drain.

Post# 858251 , Reply# 53   12/25/2015 at 00:04 (1,059 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Fascinating stuff. Great posts!
I'm impressed by your description of the forceful action from those tiny pumps.
That silverware spray bar is impressive.
But the fact that you had to install your own metal grab bar is pretty crappy.
But it seems like it has other great aspects to balance it out.

Post# 858252 , Reply# 54   12/25/2015 at 00:13 (1,059 days old) by A440 ()        

Looks very nice!  Sounds like a great machine.

Love the puppy picture!  So cute.


Post# 858256 , Reply# 55   12/25/2015 at 01:08 (1,059 days old) by Midcentnurse (Lake Charles, La)        

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Congrats on an awesome new machine 😍 that's interesting to think about longer wash times on new machines to work better with new detergents. I notice that in things progressing together. I wonder how our early 90s frigidaire is liking new detergents. It cleans well enough though.
A switch for upper rack only is essential for me though. I was thinking about the new GE artistry series. I wanted SS but we have white now and it works and the GE has a SS handle.. Anyone else have any experience with the artistry series?
Merry Christmas from 75 degree Louisiana! 😛

Post# 858272 , Reply# 56   12/25/2015 at 07:06 (1,059 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

That amount of water seems perfectly fine.
Though I still don't get why on earth one would have a 100 percent exposed optical sensor. It's probably the most sensitive part about the whole machine!

Post# 858280 , Reply# 57   12/25/2015 at 08:33 (1,059 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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And clean!!!

Wasn't a full load by any means, and I didn't want it all sitting for much longer since we'll be gone all day, but the plates had some decent dried on chili slime, with spoons to match. This was just Normal cycle with no options, but there isn't a speck left on anything. The door is spotless, silverware clean, and the filter, which is surprising to me, is clean as a whistle. I expected at least a speck of pepper or two, but no. There is also a little less water left in the sump this time, just about a quarter way up the optical sensor, but I also propped the door open right after the clean light came on, so I'm thinking less water drained down into the sump and more evaporated up and out. So I'm thinking there is no cause for concern at all.

One thing to note that surprised me was how quickly the detergent cup popped open. I don't think it was even two minutes into the first fill that I heard that muffled clunk-snap sound. I opened the door a couple minutes after just for curiousness, and the pac was nearly dissolved already. I like that a lot actually, because my concern with the PowerClean was that the detergent wasn't getting enough time to work.

Now, after the holidays my plan is for us to cook like crazy and really test it out, so I'll have to give plenty of photo updates! :P

Merry Christmas!

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Post# 858317 , Reply# 58   12/25/2015 at 15:37 (1,059 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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It should have waited about 5-8 minutes into the prewash before it decided to dispense the detergent.  That actually indicated very light soil., which based upon what I saw of the load, didn't surprise me.  Any of that was hardly having the dishwasher do more than think ho hum, very boring.  Very light soil. 

Post# 858333 , Reply# 59   12/25/2015 at 18:04 (1,058 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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How long (roughly) did the cycle last?

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