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Thread Number: 63054
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
"Industrial Archaeology®" or How to tame wild Speed Queens |
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Post# 856307 12/12/2015 at 15:50 (3,048 days old) by Jetcone  (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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 Well today was a corner turner for the 1960 Speed Queen- yes I found a 1960 stamp on the transmission, and this tranny also has a stamp that says "Arc-cuate" !!!
First was a new technique for restoring not so bad rubber hoses. I have found the red high temp silicone rubber to be a life saver here. It sticks to rubber really well. When a hose is just cracking you can do this trick and get more life out of it. Heck the Easy has been going 2 years now with this and the '57 SQ has been running a year like this. It sure beats hunting for new "bendy" hoses - believe me !
This post was last edited 12/12/2015 at 16:09 | ||
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Post# 856310 , Reply# 1 12/12/2015 at 15:59 (3,048 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Next the necessary but incredibly messy tranny overhaul. First one has too clean the outside. We don't want any of that grit getting into the tranny itself ! This machine had sat in a factory where they had worked on the V2 rocket, satellites -gawd knows what else for the NSA so it had very strange dusts all around. These were removed scientifically.
These machines were loved its obvious but getting inside what is not so obvious is how past the due date the lubricants were!! To my surprise this tranny was the worst I've seen. When cleaning I thought some of the components in cast iron had come from bad moldings! There was these huge hunks of what looked like metal all around the castings. It was hard-solid too. But after 30 mins in the kerosene a hunk just fell off , then I discovered it was carbonized lube!! It was all around the journal bearings just where the heat is generated. It had blocked the oil port holes too which made the journal bearings run even hotter. I would suppose it would soon turn to carbon if I hadn't gone in to clean. And then the next step would be diamond!! Which Fred says would be worth more than I paid for them LOL !
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Post# 856311 , Reply# 2 12/12/2015 at 16:04 (3,048 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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next the yucky part. The part when one gets down and dirty. Where you wear the worst clothes, work outdoors and have to hand scrub and scrub and scrub in kerosene. What a mess !
You can see in the first photo two of the tranny bolts were loose! The tranny had been leaking for years out one end. The original oil looked clear , look at the threads on the bolts, you can see through the oil down to the threads. Not so when you get inside !! Not by a long shot. Here is where all the work was done, and as I have said before these are NOT sealed systems. Unlike the GE tranny where oil can look new after 60 years !! These trannys are exposed to atmosphere so the oil is churned with air for 60 years. That produces SLUDGE !! Pure and simple! So it all has to come off otherwise it will contaminate the new oil and break it down.
That sludge doesn't even pour off, I had to use a putty knife to get it off the components. | ||
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Post# 856312 , Reply# 3 12/12/2015 at 16:07 (3,048 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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3 hours of subbing and cleaning sludge
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Post# 856313 , Reply# 4 12/12/2015 at 16:08 (3,048 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Stay tuned to this channel | ||
| Post# 856315 , Reply# 5 12/12/2015 at 16:22 (3,048 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
Good Lord !!! | ||
| Post# 856317 , Reply# 6 12/12/2015 at 16:28 (3,048 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts) | ||
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Post# 856323 , Reply# 7 12/12/2015 at 17:25 (3,047 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia) |
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Great work | ||
| Post# 856324 , Reply# 8 12/12/2015 at 17:47 (3,047 days old) by A440 () | ||
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Wow! I can't get over that oil! Are you going to recycle it? This is going to be one beautiful set! Such great history! Thanks for the pictures so far!
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| Post# 856329 , Reply# 9 12/12/2015 at 18:12 (3,047 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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long live the arc-cuate 210! | ||
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Post# 856330 , Reply# 10 12/12/2015 at 18:14 (3,047 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 856346 , Reply# 12 12/12/2015 at 20:17 (3,047 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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| Post# 856360 , Reply# 13 12/12/2015 at 21:13 (3,047 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts) | ||
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RTV | ||
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Post# 856361 , Reply# 14 12/12/2015 at 21:17 (3,047 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Well LaVida my dad taught me to use kerosene for this kind of thing because it has a large molecule that is not absorbed by the skin so its a little safer. I wonder since your Varsol is up the ladder if it is lighter?
As far as film is concerned its not a problem for these slow transmissions.
But sticking valves, I wonder if the kerosene had dissolved some other part of the transmission to make the valves stick like that?
I am missing one thrust washer, must have gone down the drain!
Fred you'll like that stuff, most Auto Zone's carry it
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Post# 856452 , Reply# 17 12/13/2015 at 14:00 (3,047 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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I don't mind saying
What a bastard !
I decided to remove the spin tube which looked like 3 easy Bolts ! Boy was I wrong ! Way harder than yesterday's job! Then I found a motor bolt had been over tightened It has split the lock washer !! So now the spin tube is out I'm gonna try putting On the commercial spin pulley and ramp up the Speed to 730!! Anybody know what the new spin belt size should be? I don't have any commercial doctrine on these machines. Jet | ||
| Post# 856455 , Reply# 18 12/13/2015 at 14:07 (3,047 days old) by LaVidaBoem () | ||
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Yes Sir, Mr. Jet Cone>> There were only two... 28 1/4 30 1/4
Let's hope the longer one is it. Both 1/2" width.
LaVidaBoem | ||
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Post# 856525 , Reply# 19 12/14/2015 at 07:37 (3,046 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Actually the domestic models | ||
| Post# 856539 , Reply# 20 12/14/2015 at 08:49 (3,046 days old) by LaVidaBoem () | ||
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Well, I tried... I only have a few reference books for those...
Let us know what it turns out to be, need to add that to the old 'noggin file system... LaVidaBoem | ||
| Post# 856540 , Reply# 21 12/14/2015 at 09:11 (3,046 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
Vida,
It's funny you should mention Varisol. Several years ago I restored my Grandmothers Singer 401 Slant-O-Matic sewing machine and the service manual recommended using Varisol to clean the machine with before beginning a complete tune-up. I started looking for Varisol and soon realized I was searching for a rare substance. I suppose this is only to be acquired at a specific location and for a substantial price? Brian CLICK HERE TO GO TO beekeyknee's LINK | ||
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Post# 856542 , Reply# 22 12/14/2015 at 09:21 (3,046 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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after talking to Bob Salem who is a wealth of information on Speed Queen he tells me the commercial belt should be a 24"-25" belt, that the exact size is not crucial because of the motor adjustment ability and that SQ belts should never never be tight, loose is the way.
So using the handy dandy "belt-0-matic" I was able to confirm what he told me today. Domestic machine, large pulley =6" small = 1 1/4" distance = 7 1/2" and small pulley speed is 1725. Large pulley (spin) is 630.
Commercial machine : spin pulley is 4 1/2" spin speed is 725 so a belt between 24-25 " is whats called for.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Jetcone's LINK | ||
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Post# 856548 , Reply# 25 12/14/2015 at 09:52 (3,046 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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I learned too that the belts have to be a bit loose for it to operate properly....
I also use Brake Parts Cleaner for many cleanup jobs, and for items you wouldn't think of getting wet.....it will dissolve grease and grime quickly, wash it away, and dry within seconds... fantastic work Jon......how I wish I could be there to watch all of this in person.... | ||
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Post# 856757 , Reply# 26 12/15/2015 at 16:47 (3,045 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Here is the filling of the 210° Arc-cuate Tranny | ||
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Post# 856758 , Reply# 27 12/15/2015 at 16:50 (3,045 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Last two days the job has been to address the spin tube bearings. Although they sounded great , when I discovered the amount of use the machine has seen I had my doubts as to the lubrication in them.
When I got the spin trunnion out all by itself I found the turning of the spin tube to be stiff. So in we go>>>>
Sure enough, the lubricant has dried out and cracked around the supply area, see #3. You can see where the lubricant has separated from the bearing race and is no longer supplying lubricant to the bearing.
That means its time to go!
This post was last edited 12/15/2015 at 19:07 | ||
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Post# 856759 , Reply# 28 12/15/2015 at 16:51 (3,045 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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When I whacked the spin tube out I found to my surprise heat stress on the upper tube section where it is with the bearing, that means the bearing has been running hot !
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Post# 856760 , Reply# 29 12/15/2015 at 16:53 (3,045 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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The water seal | ||
| Post# 856765 , Reply# 30 12/15/2015 at 17:12 (3,044 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Post# 856778 , Reply# 31 12/15/2015 at 18:51 (3,044 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Ooo | ||
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Post# 857034 , Reply# 32 12/17/2015 at 06:47 (3,043 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Rebuilding An Early SQ Washer Great job Jon, I have only ever torn one SQ this far apart.
Your final spin speed will be close to 800 RPMs with the 4 1/2" spin pulley.
That "heat stress " on the spin tube is from when they made the spin tube , the spin tube could never get that hot in operation or there would be no grease in the bearings at all and the seal assembly would have burned to ash, LOL.
Can't wait to see and hear this machine in operation next time I am up there. | ||
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Post# 857043 , Reply# 33 12/17/2015 at 07:40 (3,043 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Thats what I was thinking John! That heat stress looked deep | ||
| Post# 857049 , Reply# 34 12/17/2015 at 08:28 (3,043 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
As usual... | ||
| Post# 857059 , Reply# 35 12/17/2015 at 09:41 (3,043 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK) | ||
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A rebuild/restore thread, thumbs up and thank you! It has been my thought, born of experience, that when a mechanical device "realizes" it's being worked on all manner of stuff lines up and breaks while the breakin' is good. Given your extensive experience I wonder how you have learned to cope with this fundamental law of Contraptions? | ||
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Post# 857102 , Reply# 36 12/17/2015 at 13:47 (3,043 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Well Robert what I've noticed more so is this I find two kinds of machines. One that really doesn't want to come back, that is the beast to restore. The other is one the does want to come back. On those all the nuts just pop apart no forcing, all seals are good or come off easy to replace. Those are the joy to work on by a wide margin. The Philco Hula-Matic was dying to come back, in fact I've never worked on an easier machine , I was amazed at how well the mechanics stood up because that machine was once in a home and then it appeared to me be have been a garage machine due to the type of grease build up in the tub and Hula-tator.
I only force the ones that don't want to come back if they are rare examples of something.
The one that beat me was the Launderall, it didn't want to come back, once I got it actually running dry it caught fire and had to be hauled out of the basement, smoking' and choking' the house up. I have one very recalcitrant machine in my stable, its the Lady Kenmore Combination that John & I have been trying to save for 30 years !! I get her up and running and something else breaks, so she's up on the docket for the winter , right after this speed queen. It's now do or die time for her!
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Post# 857124 , Reply# 37 12/17/2015 at 14:57 (3,043 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Post# 857419 , Reply# 38 12/19/2015 at 15:37 (3,041 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Okay Dr. Frigidaire makes Speed Queen progress today
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Post# 857420 , Reply# 39 12/19/2015 at 15:39 (3,041 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Next they get my special secret lubrication plus they get packed with puréed cherries for long high temp life!
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Post# 857421 , Reply# 40 12/19/2015 at 15:41 (3,041 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Now the base gets a thorough cleaning Since we've taken it down this far -- why not !
Yes, it was cleaned with kerosene.
View Full Size
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Post# 857424 , Reply# 41 12/19/2015 at 15:43 (3,041 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Finally for today If you want easy servicing later on always ream out things. It makes it so much easier, so I grabbed my 3/8 16 reamer !
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Post# 857425 , Reply# 42 12/19/2015 at 15:50 (3,041 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Thank you everyone for tuning in! I think there will be a small break over the holidays, as Santa's Elves are now busy busy.
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Post# 857601 , Reply# 43 12/20/2015 at 19:11 (3,039 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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well that machine was boring a hole in my mind today, I had to go down and tinker.
I ended up: 1) putting the center plate and spin tube back together 2) reattaching the 3 centering springs 3) cleaning and reattaching the 3 dampers 4) reassembling the whole spin tube 5) cleaning and lubing the 4 adjustable legs.
View Full Size
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Post# 861060 , Reply# 44 1/10/2016 at 15:12 (3,019 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Today's Job Rebuild the motor/fluid drive.
Bob Salem and I were debating over New Years , we noticed how when you open the fluid drive from its hermetic seal that you ALWAYS need to top up the fluid drive oil ! Sometimes the plug is so tight you have to block the F/D in aVise, and use a LONG handled wrench just to get it open.
Where does the fluid go? Does it go?
The first picture shows just how much I got out of the FD = 6.0 ozs.
And we now know how much the original charge should be. Thanks to ebay I found a bottle of old used FD/FLUID with the quantity. Most SQ doctrine does not tell you how much the charge should be. It should be 7 1/2 ozs. !
You'll see it was down 1 1/2 ozs. ! Not a speck on the outside, the F/D was bone dry. It must burn up inside and turn to carbon because the oil is cloudy. That's my guess.
I topped it off with Zoom spout oil, its very close in viscosity, it's a tad thicker but then the oil in the FD is 60 years old and it would have broken down some so Zoom spout is a good match.
Next motor contacts cleaned, motor bearings lubed - they needed it! F/D bearing lubed for smooth sliding operation. Solenoid cleaned of external grease, it snaps real nice & smooth now. No chattering. Now the whole shebang is ready to put back together.
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Post# 861110 , Reply# 45 1/10/2016 at 19:49 (3,018 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Great Job! | ||
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