Norge Timeline, that is!!  

So, I managed to get back from the UK visit in one piece and still slightly sane but we're in the middle of bathroom renovations down in Ogden and it seems like winter decided to start  in earnest (we had a good foot of snow and the temperature dropped to a record low today).  But I knew there were two 'new' goodies waiting for me in the garage.  And a little cold weather was NOT going to stop me from playing with at least one of the new toys.   

I picked the Norge, thinking it may have been in need of less TLC than the ABC.  As usual, I was wrong... LOL

I tried to power up the machine and nothing seemed to happen until I remembered that pop-up out of balance switch, so I pressed it.... 

Well, still nothing happened... The motor buzzed and no motion was observed in the machine.  The Timeline had been set to the 'Wash' part of the cycle.  I pulled the plug and tried to move the control to 'Spin'.  It wouldn't budge.   Pulling the control out seemed to cut the power to the motor and pushing it back in again sent power but that was it.  

So, I figured this was a good place to start!

Yes, in my usual 'Never Think Things Through' approach, I took the Timeline cycle control unit off and took it apart.  Of course it was only AFTER I had removed all the wiring that I thought about looking for a wiring diagram...  Fortunately I have one still on the machine tub and I obtained the 1957 Norge washer manual from the manuals library.  

It's a fascinating unit - even I could figure out what it was supposed to do!   But, note that evidence of high heat melting on the back cover.  And note the evidence of arcing on the contact 'fingers'.... Methinks there has been a short somewhere and perhaps this was what caused the machine to be taken out of service.

But I was still troubled by the lack of movement of the selector knob...  After reading the doctrine, I figured out there was something wrong with this bar that moved an engagement gear on or off of the screw that the timer rides during operation.   My apologies for the poor picture quality - this was the best close-up I could get... 

And I noticed a lot of dried up goop on and around the spring-action mechanism, too.   Again, apologies for the awful picture... 

A good cleaning was in order... HINT: a bit of PB Blaster on a Q-Tip is a great way to remove gunk from sliding parts!

So, after adding some fresh lithium grease, I put the unit back together again... 

Miraculously, it worked!  I could now pull the control lever out and move the Timeline to wherever I wanted to on the control. 

Better still, the timer motor is still OK!   Note the date on the motor case... 

And here's another clue as to the age of the Norge (I know....awful picture)....

So, if the timer was made December 19th, 1955, I'm going to hazard a guess this Norge of mine is a 1956 model.  

Now, if the weather warms up next weekend, I'm going to have to try the motor again but after removing the drive belts.   I'm guessing I may have a 'stuck' pump.  Let's just hope it's not the transmission!

You'll be eaten and drunk- missy!

Nice detective work Paul, you're coming up to speed swiftly my young padawan!

So, I spent the past the week down in Ogden to help move the bathroom renovation project forward... It's probably going to be a few more weeks (or months... sigh) until that gets done and after a week without a fully functional bathroom, I felt a touch of the plague coming on so I bugged out to the more 'urban' setting of St-Lib this evening...  

But I had enough spare time to do some more tinkering with the Norge and the news is most encouraging!

Now, when I first tested the machine,  all I could make the motor do was buzz.  I knew something was stuck or seized, so I figured I'd try removing the belt.   

Eesh!  I could use this to rack up billiard balls.... 

I was able to access the main components and try to give them a spin manually...  

The transmission pulley turned smoothly.  The motor pulley turned smoothly.   The pump.... er.....

Well, as I suspected, it was frozen up but good.   Now, this is a first - I actually diagnosed a vintage washer issue correctly on the first go round!  LOL

I figured I had nothing to lose by removing it and inspecting it.

I didn't document each step here, but once I took the pump apart, I shot some PB Blaster into the shaft and I managed to loosen it.  

I knocked out the pump shaft... This is where I am not so sure I was doing the right thing - that washer or gasket and sleeve looked nothing like the pump bearing/bushing/sleeve components that I was able to reference in the Norge washer doctrine.   EEP!

I wasn't sure if there had been a leak that had caused the pump shaft to gum up or not.  I again figured I had nothing to lose by testing the pump casing with some water in it. 

Well, I was thrilled to observe that it 'held vater' and there were no apparent leaks from the pump shaft!  Looks like I might be ready for a test soon... 

I do still need to get a new belt (one that is actually flexible would help, I'm sure...).   

Almost forgot, I did try reconnecting the timer that I tinkered with.   This time, with no stuck belt or pump, the motor ran smoothly and the Timeline advanced smoothly through fill, wash, spin, rinse, and dry phases of the cycle.  I heard the fill solenoids buzzing and no fuses (or neighbourhood transformers) blew so I think I'm in good shape here... 

I'll have to pull the fill valve and give it a good cleaning still, but I'm getting closer!

Nice progress, you're learning for sure!

Almost ready for a load of clothes!

Wow Paul, it looks like this washer saw little use, hopefully it will not give you too many problems.

The melted timer backs were a common problem on TLTs, Norge didn't really have a clutch so they would accelerate into spin quickly like a Frigidaire Unimatic. The problem was if something like the pump was stuck the motor stayed in the start winding too long and the timer was not over-built to withstand this.

As Bruce mentioned the pumps were diffidently a weak area, and your pump looks to be in almost new condition.

CRs gave Norge washers a best buy rating in the 50s for their good performance and lower price but the durably was terrible, many of these Norges only lasted a few years before people got tired of repairing them. I had a customer just a few months ago that still remembered her first AW  [ A Norge ] that she bought because of CRs rating, and she said she still distrusts CRs to this day because the washer lasted such a short period of time.

John L.

Just before heading down to Boston for the Great Big Story recording at Jon's, I found myself all alone in Ogden for a couple of days.  So, like any naughty boy I decided to do something that would get me in trouble later - I moved the Norge washer from the garage into the basement.  

I wanted to reinstall the pump and put on a new belt...  then this happened...  

Grumble....

Yes, Mr. Know-It-All here struck again...  I managed to strip the threads of one of the orignal nuts that were used to secure the pump to the sliding mechanism it lives on.  

However, before I managed that feat, I did get the belt back on long enough to test the washer - I was thrilled to see the machine agitate and spin!!  However, during those brief tests I very quickly realized that the belt was way too loose.  The funny thing about the Norge washer is that belt tension is adjusted by moving the pump on the sliding mounting plate I mentioned above.  I'm used to the GE and Whirlpool machines where moving the motor is how you slack or tighten the belt, I guess.  Well anyway, for someone who can't open a jar of mayonnaise I managed to strip the danged bolt and then had to saw it off to remove it...  

Further grumble...

It had been a pretty hectic weekend and I didn't feel much like driving all the way up to Magog to try and find a replacement bolt (both hardware stores in Stanstead are actually closed on Sunday!).  So, I figured this would be a good chance to inspect the water valve.

It was a good move... That valve was good and scaled up!

I also got to try out my new 'water valve reconditioning centre' in the basement.  What a difference having an extra set of taps makes.

After a good soaking in CLR, the valve seems to be doing just fine now.  Yay!

So with any luck, this coming weekend I'll be able to reinstall the pump and belt.  I may just get around to a water test, too... Stay tuned!!

I must have been channeling Bullwinkle.... LOL

Thanks, Todd!  I have to admit that it was a huge relief to see the machine agitate and spin when I did the 'loose belt' test; I'm guessing that I have a solid transmission in this machine.  If all goes according to plan this weekend, I hope to do some water testing. 

Phil - that link is all about one of Robert's machines I think.  It's been a frequent point of reference for me, trust me...  

If I'd really been thinking, I would have remembered to pick up the sheared bolt when we left Ogden early Monday morning and I would have been able to find a replacement this week... Grumble...

so good to see you now have a "water valve reconditioning centre" in place!

A necessary item in OUR game!

Unfortunately for me Phil was right about the speed queen center post, after two water tests the crack migrated to outside were we put the epoxy and so it is leaking water down the center post down onto my restored transmission! Back to the drawing board!

And the 1961 GE still has a few more weep holes I am chasing down! 

Recalcitrant machines all !!!

Geez, that's a shame, Jon.  I think I'll try to get the Norge tub out for inspection of the inner tub and drive shaft this weekend.  

I admit it, I planned this past weekend around the Norge.  I had a number of things to do still and I won't be getting back down to Ogden until the 12th of March again and I was determined to get them done. 

First, I had to find alternate bolts for the pump slide-mount and get the drive belt on.  

I had to run out to the local hardware store for some bolts and the first attempt to tension the belt wound up making it too tight to allow the motor to turn.  OOOPS!  It was easy enough to slacken this, fortunately. 

When I put the pump back on, I had noticed some cracking of the rubber around the end of the hose that connects the outer tub to the pump.  I thought a bit of colourful silicone would help.  

While the silicone set, I concentrated on giving 8 of 56 (I named the washer that based on its Borg lineage...LOL) a good wash and brush up. 

Gotta love 'kitchen washers' - what looked like corrosion was just grime.  

So, I did a couple of dry tests successfully, but would it hold vater??

Well, have a look at the video and see...   

I added some real drama to this one.  Hee Hee....

Yeah, you knew that was coming, right...

I did observe one issue - there seems to be a leak from the water valve.  Nothing big, but You-Know-Who has a zero tolerance for vintage washer leaks.  I may have not tightened things sufficiently when I cleaned the valve last week; if worst comes to worst, this isn't the thermostatic type of valve so I can swap it it with a newer one. 

And needless to say, I was pretty darn happy at how this project ended!

Now, anyone know where I can get a boot for the ABC??  LOL 

Great progress Paul, did you install new valve seats when you had the inlet valve apart, that inlet valve is a thermostatic valve.

I'm jealous! 

Love the text in the video.  This one deserves an Emmy!

Just wondering, was it an unofficial rule that all 1956 home appliances had to use copper-tinted trim?  It certainly seems that way.

lawrence

John - I didn't replace the valve seats, just cleaned them up.  I didn't think this was a thermostatic one; if I can't repair it, will it be possible to swap a non-thermostatic one?  Would I wind up with cold rinses like in the '56 Whirlpool?

Hi Paul, how many solenoids are on the valve? does this washer have a cold wash setting or rinse setting?

John, it has two solenoids and there are no cold wash or rinse options.  It's not the Luxury Line model for sure.

It would be a thermostatic inlet valve, if you put a standard inlet valve in this washer you would get hot and cold, no warm, you also need one with the correct flow restrictor for the timed fill to function properly, u sally around 3.3 gallons per minute fill rate.

My Norge needs a proper water valve as well, I have a modern generic one in it.  I used a small ball-valve to cut the water flow to proper rate as I've done with many solid-tub time fill washers.  The flow restrictors get old and worn and allow too much water through.  The ball valve works like a charm, but the temps are another story.

I don't like to post the first water tests (this from the maker of 'dropped speed changer' and 'Frigidaire overflow spin'....) but I took lots of video of the 'new' Norge, so here ya go!  It's a good view of the rinse part of the cycle, including the overflow rinse, and a spin, all with no narration or music.  Enjoy!

Well-spotted Phil;  it's the tune I call the 'Wile E Coyote' music... LOL 

I'm planning on bringing this one into the regular rotation - it's actually going to bring me one step closer to an all-50s machine laundry room.  Of course that is conditional on a slot opening up on the wall of washers in Ogden and fingers crossed, a space may just open up this March!

Wile E Coyote and his latest project... Hopefully this one won't have a catastrophic failure!

;-)

OK, so I'm blowing it a wee bit out of proportion....  

I spent the last week down in Ogden, hiding out with Canyon while they redo the floors and trim at the 'new' house in St-Liboire.  I was eager to put the Norge into a permanent slot in the Ogden Laundry, so I double-checked and changed the clamp connecting the tub fill hose and the water valve on the '56 Norge.   The good news is that the leak I had observed during the filming of the 'debut' was resolved.  

The bad news was that the Norge no longer wanted to spin...  I swear I could hear the Hotpoint mocking me from out in the garage.  

So, I did some digging.  The test I did was with a full tub of water. I noticed that when the washer started up in agitation, there was a short buzz from the motor but the washer would begin to agitate within 10 or 15 seconds. But when I tried to get '8 of 56' to spin, all I got was motor buzz...  I siphoned out the water and tried again.  The washer started to spin.  As is the case with me, I was already jumping to conclusions about what was wrong.   My first instinct was the belt tension.  For the heck of it, I tried taking the belt off to see what the motor did.  For spin and agitation, it started up immediately and seemed fine.  I tried to tighten the belt, ever so slightly and with an empty tub, I was able to get the washer to agitate and spin.  But when I filled the tub again - no dice. 

I was a little miffed, but figured I should consult the doctrine... Fortunately I have the '57 Norge service literature from the board library.   I read the symptoms and cures thoroughly - and sure enough, the manual had a section on the motor describing the trouble I had encountered.  The suspected cause?  A weak capacitor.  

It made sense to me and had actually been one of my 'suspicions'... The start switch in the motor was another probable cause.

Well, I extracted the motor and took it to my faithful repair place in Magog last week to have both items checked.   Hopefully I'll have a repaired motor sometime over the long weekend and the Norge will be set into its rightful place in the Ogden Laundry. 

Of course, in the meantime, it's place is being kept ready by another, rarer machine of mine that miraculously fixed itself last week, no doubt as a consolation for not being able to play with the Norge.   Hint: the washer brand name begins with 'D'....

On Tuesday, I got the call from the motor place in Magog - the Emerson that drives the Norge had been fully serviced and was ready for pick-up.  Hubby took off for Brazil on Wednesday, so you can guess how fast I hit the road on Thursday to head back down to Ogden by way of the motor shop in Magog.  And on Friday, I reinstalled the motor... 

It worked like a charm.  Wonderful!  Marvelous!! (Careful, if you say 'Awful Nice' you will haunted by the ghost of Cole Porter or Ray Conniff, depending on who's available....)   Now where was I?  Oh yes, the Norge.   It agitated without the slightest hesitation.  It went into spin smoothly.  I tried it with water and without.  Didn't make a difference this time - that motor spun out a tubfull of water in the blink of an eye.  

BUT....

Yeah, we all saw THAT coming...    It seems the Timeline Cycle Control doesn't like me anymore.  When testing the repaired motor, the control stalled at the fill, wash, and spin phases of the cycle...  Oddly enough I could hear the timer motor running, but that Timeline was not a-budgin'.... 

I took the control out and opened it up again to investigate.   At first I thought the set screw that holds the screw-shaped drive gear was too loose and the screw drive was not contacting the timer carriage assembly where the contacts are.  

I was able to tighten it, no problem.  

I put the control back together again.  It still wouldn't advance.... 

I checked the gear that meshes with the timer motor to make sure it was making good contact.  

It was (and still is).... 

And it gets better... When the rear cover plate of the control is off, the timeline will advance.  The moment I put that cover back on, it stalls.   I also have no more photos as of this point 'cause I had a 'whoopsie' that sent my camera across the basement floor and I think it's finito... 

Camera problems aside, I am now stumped...  My first instinct was that perhaps the metal fingers of the carriage (a previous picture shown here) are pressing too tightly against the cover, but I feared that any adjustment to them would mean contacts to the fill solenoids, motor, tub brake, etc would no longer be made reliably.   But the other concern is that perhaps the screw drive itself is worn to the point that it just doesn't allow the carriage to move along it.  

I've taken that thing apart so many times, too, and I wonder if I've not inadvertently messed something up.  

Has anyone run into a situation like this before??  Canyon was no help whatsoever.... LOL

Well, that about sums up the weekend... LOL  

I was itching to get back down to Ogden to tinker with the Timeline cycle control and spent the better part of the day (and evening) on Friday doing just that.  I didn't have a lot to go on but the Norge service literature I do have made mention of greasing the mechanism several times, so I figured that would somewhere to start.  It started to feel like I was stuck in an endless cycle of dismantle, grease, re-assemble and test.  But each try got me a little closer and I learned a lot about these Timeline controls; hopefully this can be of assistance to another Norge owner.

I apologize in advance for the repeat postings of some photos and the poor close-ups, but the picture is needed to help explain what I discovered. 

First discovery - note the colour change of the drive shaft.  I had thought that was simply discoloration from old grease having dried on.  Nope.  It's actual wear.  

One of the issues '8 of 56' was having was the timer seemed to get stuck at the initial fill.  After heaven knows how many times taking the timer apart, I noticed that when the carriage was started on the lighter section of the screw drive, it would advance then get stuck.  I figured it had to be when the carriage hit the worn section of the drive and when I did further testing, I noticed that if I kept the carriage on the grey section of the drive, it would advance normally.   Well, it made sense to me...  

I also greased that drive screw very well and this seemed to help.  

In my further tests, I still noticed that the Timeline was not working consistently when the contact plate had been re-installed.  I had already discovered that the screw drive shaft had to be held in place tightly enough for the carriage to 'bite' the threads but not so tight as to prevent the shaft itself from turning.  I had overtightened the set screw on the right side of the housing so the shaft was binding on it.  I also figured that the drive screw shaft was not true...  I think that I probably bent the shaft when I reinstalled-removed-reinstalled the knob for the carriage. So with a slightly wobbly screw shaft, I figured there wasn't going to be much that I could do.  

I'm pleased to say that I managed to adjust the shaft so that there is just a bit of play.  And if I'd looked carefully, I would have noticed that the set screw that holds the shaft in place could be adjusted with an Allen key...  

I made the adjustments with the timer motor running and when I heard the carriage was binding (the timer motor changed pitch) I used the Allen key to loosen the set screw.  Bit by bit, I seemed to find the right spot for it.  After multiple tests out of the washer, the cycle control seemed to be operating with the contact plate in place. I was never happier to hear the clunk of the contacts as they moved along!

And here's something to beware of in Timeline cycle controls.... Those screws on the lower section of the carriage should be good and tight, but the screw directly above the control bar should be just tight enough to hold the carriage firmly.  I believe I had tightened this screw just a wee bit too much and with the slight wobble on the screw drive, it was getting the carriage stuck while the machine was in the Wash portion of the cycle.  

I also greased the housing where the carriage made contact to make sure it would move smoothly.

I did several tests and I was very happy to see that the washer no longer got stuck at the 6-minute mark of the wash cycle.  I only did two full-cycle dry test with all the components connected again, but I was able to get through the wash cycle both times.  

So that's it for now.... I ran out of steam and needed a break (I went garage-saling) so I'll probably do a real wash test only this coming weekend.  

My concern is that I may still have some trouble with the initial fill - the water pressure in Ogden is not terrific and I do have some difficulty with the time-fill machines getting enough water in them.  However there is an adjustment that can be made using that fan-like lever on the left side of the cycle control (see the photo in the previous reply).  This sets a stop position for the timer control bar to allow the carriage to run for a shorter or longer period during the initial fill.  I'll need to play with that and hope I don't position the carriage at the unworn spot of the drive shaft... 

But even more importantly, I now have to decide where to slot the Norge in the Ogden laundry.  That means it may take the place of the Blackstone or the Inglis.  The Dominion jumped into the slot I had freed for the Norge (because I thought I had actually sold the Maytag A702 but that deal fell through).   

Oh, I'm going to be tossing and turning all night this week over this.... LOL 

Interesting timer control in that, isn't it?  I've not had any trouble with mine so we'll keep speaking in hushed tones so as not to startle it :-)  I've been lucky so far...

It's wonderful how far you've come since you first found us here, your courage and stamina to keep plugging away at these vintage treasures is inspiring.  

Keep us posted on your wash-load tests, I'm sure they'll do just fine now.

I did manage to run a full-load test with the Norge on the weekend.  The timer stalled on me during fill and the first few minutes of the wash part of the cycle.  However, by manually advancing the control to about the infamous 6-minute mark on the timeline, the carriage seemed to engage and the rest of the cycle completed automatically.  

I also noted that the washer did not use warm water for the rinse; it was hot.  This however uncovered a plumbing snafu caused by the contractor who redid our bathroom...  For some reason, the way he plumbed in the cold water line to the laundry tub/washer connections there is some kind of siphoning going on that sucks hot water out of the heater tank and sends it down the cold line to the washers!!  Contractors....Eesh!  He's been informed and I know where he lives... LOL

In the meantime, I'm planning another Norge rescue mission - stay tuned!

Yep, get yer Viking helment and come visit... LOL

Oh, thanks Eddie... Just sprayed the computer screen with coffee...  Oh, well, at least no weeds will grow on it this summer...  LOL

You'll need a Norge ball in Ogden!

YES!  I can just imagine how many accidents would be caused as people drove down Alice Miller's Hill staring and asking, "What the HELL is that?" .... LOL