I was graciously given a heads-up as to this little gem on Craigslist, and I couldn't say no.  Because, you know.  Dishwasher. 

However, she did not start out as a gem.  When I loaded her into the car, an absolute cornucopia of terror of cobwebs awaited.  Vacuuming them out was like vacuuming silly string. 

Remember that scene in the pit with Indiana Jones and the snakes?  For me, that's spiders.  This thing sat in the back of the car all day at work, and I am convinced something will eat me on the drive to work tomorrow.

Because I couldn't stand to not get at and eradicate every...last...one, I took the front panel off.  All I can say is, ew...and high-five to whomever left the Jet Dry in the Rinse Glo dispenser.  It makes spectacular paint stripper.

Isn't she pretty?

Yes, she has the coveted Silver Shower, guaranteed to make you put back the open-sided silverware basket from another model.  But it's so delicious!

Start.  Start, Start.  Start here.  Dishes end up dry here.  You don't need to know the details; it's minimalist design.

Amazingly, she fired right up, with only some piddle from the drain valve (perpetually to be expected; our Westinghouse MW did the same thing).  I'll see what I can do with that.

The real bummer is that, for the first two wash segments, the fill is short, and the motor stops, except to drain.  It soldiers on normally once it hits the first main wash segment.  Sigh.  Timer issues.  I'll have to take it apart and see what's going on with the cams.  I suspect the contacts are okay, since it operates normally except for that part, and the bad behavior is fully reproducible.

Anyone got a timer lying around for one of these?  I'd love to purchase it from you.  :-)  If you ask RepairClinic, it says "huh?"

Greg--do you have any doctrine that references a part number on the timer?

This also has the aerated China/Crystal key, although the tube that runs down to the pump feed is squished flat most of the way, and kinked where it does a U-turn to aerate the water.  (Not that I care much.  China/Crystal is for wimps.  Real dishes like to be smacked around by that wash arm with all the holes on one side.)

The performance is spectacular--no yibbles, not even any grit in the cups on the top rack.  But with as much water as this machine uses, it danged sure better be yibble-free!

Look at that cord reel!  The D&M has one, but it just balls up the cord on one pulley.  Not GE!  It lays each portion into its own neat track.

The story on this was that it came from the estate of a gentleman's father.  The mother hated it, and if this timer mess-up is any indication, I see why.  Her hatred (and/or gentle care) resulted in a spotless, robin's egg-blue Plastisol interior, though--not so much as a nick, bubble, or discoloration--not even in the sump, and these first turbine-pump machines were notorious for dissolving away there.

Hey there!

The Duo-Lift racks are phenomenal--least PITA factor of any top-loader I've had.

The key is to remember that tall items are deceptive, and to be cautious when closing the lid, lest you end up vacuuming what's left of your wine goblet stems out of the sump.

Put them in the bottom rack?  Are you nuts?

The lack of sides in the bottom rack means lots more space and flexibility, and no saucer-hump means acres of open territory.  However, it also means no cushioning for items you wish you could place next to the wall.  Will they thump and clatter?  Hell yes, they will.

The little Power Shower is a hoot.  You can hear it swoosh-swooshing as it does its thing.  The scrubbing action in the top racks is phenomenal--even coated spatulas and turners come spectacularly clean, and there's lots of good places to secure plastics.  Everything light and floaty in the top rack emerged spotless, and where it started.

The Roto-Rack is about the same capacity-wise in the top (the racks on this really are tiny), but not spinning the dishes at 100 RPM over the spray means more time to bathe those puppies lovingly in copious (COPIOUS) amounts of water.

...before you all start placing bets, the Silver Shower *is* hooked up on this model.

Boy oh boy Nate, you sure got that right!  

As Mobile-Maids go, that is a damn fine example, it's got great style and I love all those buttons!   Very cool, CONGRATS!!!

It took me a few minutes to even guess the function, but am I correct in saying the silverware basket has it's own mini spray arm?   I've NEVER seen this before, what a unique feature!   Is this perhaps the reason behind the "Silver Shower" name?

Also, I'd venture a guess that the "on" light was put there because many owners (or perhaps the designers?) were playing Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd or The Who so loud they couldn't tell if the dishwasher was operating or not.  LOL

Kevin

Hi Tom,

Well, that could explain it. Here's what it seems to do:

- Start - motor runs like you'd expect.
- Fill - short increment; not a full charge. Circulates briefly with barely enough to really do anything but cavitate.
- Stops. The sound of crickets chirping fills the air.
- Sits like a brick until the motor comes back to life to drain.
- Motor continues running. Fills; motor stops. Again, comes back to life to drain.
- Fills; more like a full charge. The motor never starts; then, really brief (but meaningful this time) circulation.

- Again, drains.
- The rest of the cycle resumes like you'd expect; the motor then remains on until the dry.

I guess I'm just used to the later turbine-pump machines, which, like a KitchenAid, never stop the motor until the cycle completes.  Never take anything for granted, I suppose!

It seems odd to dedicate so many water changes to line purges and futzing (harkening to mind the fabulous static overflow-rinse on the Kelvinators), but I guess it makes sense if the goal is to warm the tank and the line. It doesn't circulate but those thirty seconds you described with a full fill, which seems just enough to scatter debris, rather than accomplish much in the way of a prewash. The main wash afterward seems to consist of two long periods of circulation, the second triggering the covered detergent cup.

It may indeed be Functioning As Designed^TM--the schematic sheet is tucked away in the front, so I'll have a look and see if a cycle sequence is outlined there.

Thank you again--functional is always good news! 

Nate

Cool Find Nate, we have almost the exact machine about one year newer, I have always been meaning to getting around to playing with it.

GE DW Timers on the early models with the shaded pole motors were know for losing more and more of the motor running time often to the point of where the motor would barely run at all. Back in the days when there were a lot of these DWs around we must have changed a few hundred of these timers. I never tried to fix the timer but I think you could probably do so by filing and slightly bending the contacts for the motor operation. While you are correct that the cam is slightly worn or off center I think that the problem can be corrected by adjusting the contact pressure.

Yes I love your comments about the WONDERFUL Silver-Shower, this was truly one of the many silly gimmicks to make people think that this DW would outperform other models.

I never could figure out why GE put all the holes in one side of the lower wash arm, this was another crazy idea that was tried about once in the history of DW design. As the wash-arm revolved and a wall of water hit stuff it would toss items out of the rack, diffidently no place for wine glasses.

We had a family friend that had a basic built-in GE DW with this wash arm and seh said that it would throw silver-ware out of the SS basket.

Nice machine - love the green color and the fat-finger buttons.  You are very right about the GE upper racks, they were about the best designed with the KitchenAid running a close second.

I stripped one of these last summer, same features but a year or two older, it had the small oval buttons.  I should have replaced the turbine pump with a new style pump/motor to quiet it down a lot but then I'd have still been left with it's other faults.

I played with the silver shower sprayer for a while and no matter the water pressure I put to it, couldn't get it to turn on it's own.  I decided this was it's best use:

So, does the Mini-Wash option just run the Silver Shower?  (ducks and runs....)

Seriously Nate, that is one cool Mobile Maid.  Love the 2-speed system; this must have been one of the last to feature the much-loved Silver Shower wash arm.   Great find!!

In the rare event that eBay coughs up a TOL timer hairball, does anyone have the part number on this timer?  I'd love a spare, just in case my dinking-around endeavors result in more pudding than productivity.

Thanks, John!!  LOL, yes, this machine is a marvel of misguided engineering, but I can't argue with the results.  Last night included a monstrously dirty load with rice and pasta, and the GE nibbled it into bits and sent it down the drain.  It also sent a piece of very clean pasta up into a coffee mug, and from the results of yet another mug with hot cocoa residue, I can tell that the corners are a tough go for this unit.  No need to do the full peanut-butter monty in tall tumbers on this machine.  ;-)

I need to go foraging in the shed to see if I have an open-sided basket--last night's peanut-butter spoon test passed with flying colors, but there was one compartment that seemed a little underloved.

I'll take the timer out Sunday and sit down and have a look at it.  That's great to hear that this was a thing with these machines, and I'm also glad to hear that it's more contacts, less cams.  It'll be interesting to explore what's happening.

So far, silverware has stayed put (it's pretty heavy-gauge stuff that we have), but you can--as Greg noted once--hear the plates jumping.  I find that if I put fry pans and such in the bottom, they help lean onto and anchor other items that might be skybound.

If I can get the timer sorted, I'll get the new pump.  This one is okay, but I can hear the telltale fan clattering that only serves to underscore what's going to happen later.

Greg--I love that!  The first fridge with Silver Shower action!  I'm surprised, given the circumstances, that GE didn't offer it as a factory option.  ;-)  The functional equivalent of boobies on a bull.  Why not on a fridge? 

Interesting that you mention its inability to turn, since I've been spying on mine, and I don't think it's revolved.  I'll look again when I get home.  I could add an angled jet to assist, but deep down, you have to wonder how much you really care.

Paul--LOLOL!  Yes, you just put one item over the silverware basket, and the reduced fill sends a steady stream out of the Power Shower as well to act as a Filter-Flo.

Beautiful machine!

I've been wanting to find one of these in my never-ending search for top-loading dishwashers. Interesting how the user buttons for these machines have gone from minimalist styles where they were tiny little chrome cats' eyes to these big honking keys (much more ergonomically-correct) and do the same things. The china/crystal cycles on the old Pull-outs used to be achieved by an intentional partial fill which would soften the spray. I think the aeration is a neater solution when it works.

I think this model is just one year older than Robert's machine; in 1970 they turned it into a Versatronic and changed the Plastisol colors.

Thanks for all the pictures. Could you post a couple of shots of the interior around the dispensers?

1969

Thanks, Don--and thanks for the year confirmation, Ken!  Not sure whether this has anything to do with it or not, but I did notice a grease-penciled "69" under the front panel.

Cool!

Sure, Ken--I'll get some tonight or tomorrow and report back.  Let me know if you want any other close-ups.

Thank you for the great info--and I love your renderings!!

Since you know I'm going to be obsessive over this, here's a query--should the China/Crystal tube be flat-ish like it is, or should it be a fairly open tube?

It does a hard U-turn right at the pump output, and it's collapsed over time.  Not sure why they did the U-turn, unless someone worked on this machine and rotated the tube it feeds into around, and caused it to point the wrong way (possible).

Part of me wants to replace it and play.

(Once I get the timer fixed, of course.  No use polishing the hubcaps when the car won't start.)

LOL... too funny Nate, but also so true!

Kevin

Thank you!

In pic 1 of the dispenser shots, thank goodness that's a piece of crud on the Plastisol.  I almost succumbed to apoplexy when I saw that!

So, tonight, I took the timer out, to investigate the cams and contacts.

I know this is partially just a result of earlier technology, and that quick-connect terminal blocks came later, but I hope there's a hot seat in hell for whomever designed this.

By the way, here's the part number sticker for you future MM aficionados...

I call this design either the "sh-t sandwich" or "Sh-tSho," depending on how trademarkey you want to get about it.

The timer is a rat's nest of wires, with a stiff cardboard backer.  Be cautious and be careful with this backer; it must be intact, and not bent, or else you'll lose your detergent dispenser.  The cardboard keeps the rat's nest away from the dispenser actuator assembly...more on that later.

Take photos.  You can't put the wires back willy-nilly; they loop, and lie, and layer, and need to go back the way they went, so that your sh-t sandwich won't be too lumpy in the middle when it's time for reassembly.  A little photo documentation spares you a lot of frustration later on.  A CSI-worthy crapload of photo documentation may actually make this process almost pleasant.

See that long pin that runs through the shaft?  That's the actuator for the detergent dispenser.  The plastic arm on the other side (not pictured), also affixed to the shaft (with a speed nut--*stomps on grave of engineer*), triggers the RinseGlo dispenser.

The Total Betch^TM of this design is that there's a heat-set short pin to run the RinseGlo actuator arm, and this gawdawful (also heat-set) long pin to run the actuator.  Don't be hasty in diddling around; damage either pin, and you've got problems.  Do NOT get out the Dremel.  If I had the choice, I'd go for the RinseGlo pin again--if you screw up the long pin, you will have trouble interfacing with the magnetic detergent dispenser.

No, scratch that--if I had the choice, I'd use a NIB timer.

In any case, I used a long-stem lighter to heat the short RinseGlo pin and remove it (not PartialBetch, TotalBetch^TM) after I had the thrill of gently prying back the lips of the speed-nut to coax it of the (rusted!  Yay!) timer shaft.  Note:  If you do stuff that requires force to the timer shaft, be sure to support it on the other side, or somehow.  Remember, there are little gears you're pressing on.

You have to pick your poison; so long as those pins are in place, you won't be getting at the guts.  The wisdom of John L.'s field-service total replacement is now apparent, no?

With that out of the way (or with the timer in the trash can, the machine at the curb for recycling, and a cold beer in your hand, as you brood with a glazed look of frustration, and wonder if your mother was ever sincere about any mechanical inclination you possessed--or whether that was the Valium and vodka martinis talking), you can peek through the flip-side of the timer, and note where the little drive gear from the timer motor goes.  The hole it rests in has an identical twin not far away, and it can fit into either.  (Don't do what I did, and have to guess at it later, and try to Rubik's-cube it back in.) 

Remove the two screws that hold the timer motor stator--keep track of the position of the rotor, and the little electrical spade tab-o-lito that is sandwiched underneath the screw.  Take pictures.  (You don't have the short-term memory you thought you had, and remember what you just decided about your mechanical inclination.)

Now, stuff gets real.  Be gentle.  Straighten the tabs that secure the timer contact board, and gingerly free it.  (If you don't remove the stator, you won't be able to get at the last tab, and the contact board doesn't want to come out cock-eyed.  There are many, little, thin, delicate metal things riding on your finesse.)

If you stop now, as I did, and reinstall the timer dial so that you remember which way points north (hint: it's toward the motor assembly), you can see exactly what contacts do which function.  It's very easy to figure it out with a few passes--the heating element contact (middle, immediate right of the shaft) kicks on after powering the machine on, and persists until you run the timer knob back to "off," at which point it gently releases.  The motor is the next-most-frequently actuated contact.  Remember, though, that it won't be easy to guess until you hit the main wash segment.

Other contacts do other things, so you'll have to study them.  The most chatty contacts are the water and drain valve; if you run things through from the very beginning in slow-motion, you can figure it out.  The drain valve won't actuate during the beginning of the first segment, until the end, obviously.  The water valve will.  The drain valve will also be one of the last things that happens before the dry.

This is simpler to figure out on a GE, because that Sh-tSho^TM assembly means two things are not in play here--the rinse-aid and detergent dispensers.  Hooray!  Much simpler.  Well, in that respect, anyway.

I quickly figured out which contact was the motor, and studied its movement.  As the contacts follow the cam, small imperfections will cause the blades to move like sea kelp in the ocean's current (pause with me now to savor this, and feel the Zen--you'll need it in a second).  A true, pronounced change in the cam pattern will cause the contact to close decisively, and you'll hear the music-box clicks that accompany it.  Some contacts may close so firmly that the opposing finger flexes a little with it.  That's okay.

After studying the cam--which, in a GE, is not a set of fiberboard discs, but is a Bakelite(?) plastic wheel that looks like a music-box "record" indeed, I found that--in fact--GE put plateaus and valleys in concentric patterns that actually do correspond to the stupid/weird/innovative behavior that happens in the first two cycle segments.  And, accordingly, the contact for the motor follows the rhythm predictably.  The main wash starts a pattern in the disc that persists until the end of the dry, at which point the drain valve and motor bow out, and the only thing on till the end is the Calrod unit.

Why GE did this is beyond me, and I wonder if they revised the later timer to omit the stupid-dance; hence, the huge amount of replacements.  Or, maybe a combination of that, and the disc is wear-prone?  Hard to say.  Low-mileage as ours is, the contacts and cam disc were all in perfect shape, which verifies the seller's story that Mom had put a mob hit out on this machine, and glared at it from across the kitchen, while buffing dishes in the sink with a tea-towel.

Once forensics are complete (I kicked out a piece of insect chitinous body-trash and more spider webs--geez), reassemble the cam disc and shaft (making sure everything properly interlocks with the timer motor's drive gears, which are affixed to the other side of the assembly with rivets anyway); gently lay the contact board back, and make sure your timer pointer is back to "off."  This will help the followers settle back into the grooves, and prevent bending their sweet little dinguses.  Don't force things.  (And don't get a bigger hammer.)

When the contact board is on, hold it gently with your fingers until everything seats, and rotate the timer through a cycle to help everything settle in.  Then, hold it firmly after it feels like it "clunks" back into position, and rotate the dial through another cycle to be sure all the switches chatter and actuate.  If they don't, or if only one does, you're not aligned properly.  Try again.  (Gently.)

Bend the tabs back (GENTLY), and reinstall the timer motor (you DO remember which of the two seemingly identical holes it goes in, right?  Both will interface with the main drive gear, but only one is correct.  "Jehovah" in Latin is spelled with an "I," by the way.)

Be sure the motor is properly aligned, and that you didn't inadvertently omit the spade connector for the power.  You'll miss it later, I promise.  Take the time to get the alignment right, unless you long for the days of GE's semiautomatic dishwashing.

Now, heat the hell out of that pin, and get it back where it belongs.  The depth and such of the RinseGlo pin is not as mission-critical as the detergent-dispenser actuator, so again, I suggest you not screw with the detergent pin if you can help it.  The RinseGlo pin just has to be in enough to run the plastic arm, which has a groove extending all the way through it.

Slide the RinseGlo arm back on, and reaffix that stupid speed nut.  It just needs to be tight enough to stay; no need to sweat this, but go get a new one at Ace if you feel like a purist.  Again, remember the rule about applying force to the timer shaft!

Now, it's time to test your concentration skills.  GE has (mercifully) printed the color codes adjacent to all the terminals to help you.  But what it won't help you do is remember how to layer the wires as you reconnect them--go back to your detailed and plentiful photos to help with that.  You'll want to bury the longer wires with multiple terminals first, and loop them appropriately, before going after the lower-hanging fruit.

Remember that wire insulation colors change a little over the years, so what GE considered "white-brown" may now look pretty orange, which is a problem, because there's also "white-orange" and "white-red," all ready to screw you up (and over).  Photos, man.  Photos.

Check your work twice; there are no "leftover wires."  Now, take your finger and trip the little plastic arm for the detergent dispenser if it's cocked, so that it's in the "dumped" position (or, if it wasn't cocked before you got started, reward yourself with another beer). 

Reattach the cardboard backer insert the way Angelina Jolie rotates herself to maneuver through a laser array in a museum heist--do not bend anything.  If you compromise the integrity of the backer, you'll lose the one thing preventing the rat's nest from putting undue pressure on the detergent dispenser actuator assembly.  Rotate it to allow the timer shaft and pin to pass through; then, maneuver it back and forth to tuck each metal tab from the timer box through.  For the last tab, you'll have to be gentle, but firm.

Once it's back on, make sure your timer is back at "off," and reinstall the Sh-t Sandwich to the tank wall.  Be gentle here; stuff has to realign.  When you think you've got it, hold it there with your hand, and be sure that you can arm and release the dispenser consistently through timer rotations.  If you're good, reattach the screws.  Make sure the left-top one isn't super-tight, it just needs to be snug.  If you overtighten, your dispenser will not arm; it'll flop back whenever you try to raise and lock it.

(Aren't you sad you didn't get that top-load KitchenAid now?)

Once you're certain the dispensers operate consistently, test and be sure the cycle runs as you expect.  Or, if you're feeling lucky, reattach the front panel.  If you don't have three arms, I recommend you lay the machine on its back, or at least have a helper tilt it back and hold it.  Like the timer assembly, the front panel is a delicate shoehorning operation of dodging the handle castings while simultaneously stuffing the top of the panel fascia up under the edge of the handle chrome.  It's not fun to do in the vertical position, and you will dip into your jar of expletives if you try it.

Now, test your work.  If all goes well, it still works the way it did.  And if not, you can always try again, drink more, or use your dolly to move it out to the curb.

But look on the bright side -- it appears a Telechron rotor is driving that whole mess. 

Could you take it all apart again and check the RPM on it?  I might have a spare for you.

-- Shirl

Boy Nate that brings back memories of how many timers like this we changed, and yes timers with individual wires were fun to change out.

But the neat thing about these timers is that you can see most contacts with the timer assembled. You may even be able to see the arcing motor contacts as you manually turn the timer through a cycle and adjust them without taking the timer apart.

  One of the neat things about GE major appliances is that GE built nearly the entire appliance, including timers, motors, motor start relays, thermostats on refrigerators, defrost timers and on and on, even the electrical wire insulation in GE appliances often had GEs name on it.

  Overall it was probably a good thing that GE had the ability to do all this in house, but it also hurt them at times. Of course the flip side of this situation was companies like Maytag were so small that they had to buy all of their electrical parts from many vendors and often the worst part of MT appliances were the electrical parts.

  John L.

Kevin--It's still in the house.  "Primum non nocere," as they say.  It still works the same as before. :-)

Ralph--I'll get right on that.  Maybe you'd like to come to the Hogwarts School of Timercraft and have a go from my step-by-step guide, complete with snark?  :-)  Just think about the feelings you'll develop for that Miele... ;-)

John--I don't know how you didn't develop a twitch after having to do this so many times.  :-) Good grief!!  It was...very educational.  You're very right about the contact visibility, it's a really cool diagnostic, if you could get all the wires out of the way, and also not electrocute yourself trying (I still have fond memories of leaning over the backless control panel of that stupid '61 Kenmore I started with while the machine was running, and frying myself when I didn't think about contacting the timer terminals). 

A new pump's in order for this one--the fan chatter continueth.  Is this the right new module to order?  It says any dishwasher after 1970, but this arrangement looks pretty much like all the rest of the shaded-pole turbine-pump setups I've seen:

The new GE pump retrofit kit works...kind of.  Here's the thing:

- The hoses for the Silver Shower, Power Shower, and China/Crystal key are formed into the big hoses that connect the sump to the pump intake and the wash arm outlet.  So, you don't use the traditional takeout for the Power Shower that's capped off, although with some creative plumbing, you could.  Personally, I'd rescue a later turbine-pump machine and swap the sump and wash-arm output hoses and reroute the auxiliary wash arms to run off that outlet if I had my druthers.

- The pump is eeeeeeeever so slightly shorter than the old one.  This means that without some creative finagling, the hose to the wash arm won't quite go down far enough to seal well, and the hose from the sump is bowed-up slightly and barely clears the sump body.

- The motor hanger is a b-tch.  You'll have to fabricate your own, creatively, from what GE includes in the kit.  Nothing they have will work out of the box, and the old one won't fit the new motor/pump at all.

I'm going to do a full rework on this, because it weeps around the wash arm tube and a little bit above the sump tube.  I'm going to use the car ramps to get it up in the air, and run it with a full charge of water; you can only peek in the front of the unit underneath with the front panel off, and of course, all the leaks of interest are facing away from you.

While we enjoy the Roto-Rack for a bit ;-), I think my solution will be to use PVC to extend the port to the wash arm slightly, and JB Weld that extension onto the output.  Doinking with the hoses is not optimal, with all the cast-in bits, and silicone only promises to make either a mess that still leaks, or a situation that will be an unadulterated nightmare the next time take-aparts need to happen.

On the plus side, once the bugs get worked out, it's a worthy, if painful, upgrade.  When I started the machine for testing, I about died from shock--all you hear is the water!  Quiet is an understatement...and that's saying something with a machine that has no sound insulation to speak of!

I'll get lots of pics when I have the guts out, so you can see the secrets within.  The China/Crystal air tube is a real hoot--in GE's typical form, they made a connection that readily kinks, and worked that out by running a wire through the inside of the hose to try to keep a small passageway open.  Ingenious!  Diabolical.

You might also try one of those kink-preventing springs they have at auto parts stores; I've used them on a couple of GE washers. They come in a range of sizes, maybe one small enough for that tube. Would love to see some pictures of the insides of that timer if it hasn't been put back together already.

Good Luck.

Hi Nate, it sounds like you are having fun with this pump retrofit. there is a longer output hose that can be used when installing these newer style pumps in older DWs, if you would like I could send you one.

The air hose for the gentile wash is usually kinked in several places, as you discovered GE ran a small piece of wire through this hose so it doesn't kink enough to cause it not to work, it only needs a tiny opening to allow enough air through to cause the wash water to aerate.

It is amazing how quite these GE DWs are with these new motors, when they shift into drain the only sound you hear is the water splashing into the sink, you no longer have the roar of 600 watts of power being wasted with a motor that has a cooling fan so large that the fan uses almost as much energy keeping the motor cool as it does pumping water, LOL.

That would solve about seven different problems.  Thank you so much, John!  I'll send you a message on here shortly.

I'll reroute the Silver Shower and Power Shower feeds through the spare port on the pump.

These new pumps are just stunning.  When the drain opened, and the water just slurped out the unicouple, I was floored.  Plus, it doesn't weigh fifty pounds like the old one!!

That's great to know regarding the China/Crystal air feed.  Not that I'll ever use it, but it's fun to have, and know that it could work, if you really wanted it to.  :-)

The big, black, loud motor is a shaded pole.

Disadvantages: Inefficient, even by the standards of the 1960s.

Needs cooling (obviously). Lots of cooling.

Relatively low torque (though these are so powerful, that's not a problem, here)

Reverse is not possible (well, you could reverse the rotor, I suppose)

Advantages:

-Longest life expectancy of any motor (especially compared to 'digital motors').

-No capacitors to fail.

-No complicated electronics controls, (but plays very well with logic driven FETs and relais)

-Self-starting and, because the 'starting windings*' are always on (cause of the inefficiency for two reasons) automatically restarts when stalled.

-Apart from lubrication, no maintenance ever

-Far less complicated wiring

Though, to be honest, we've got a GE with a SIEMENS (the new style) motor which has been potscrubbing for decades with narry a problem. It's not as powerful a pump, and I have replaced the capacitor (no big deal) once, already. If memory serves (may not), it was a whopping 22mfd?

When I rebuild a GE Potscrubber and it has a shaded-pole, I don't trash it. When I rebuild a GE with a split-phase, I always replace the capacitor. Can't say there's any definite reason to switch out a working shaded-pole, nor is there enough reason to put one in as a replacement unless one is working on one of those pitiful Hotpoints which were intentionally castrated. That would be a reason.

 *I'm going to call them windings. If it makes you feel better, don't. Since, however, GE referenced them as such way back when, I'm cool with it.

Poor starting torque which caused service calls to unstick motor and pump, we have probably run about 600+ calls to do this over the years.

Loose cooling fans on motor shaft due to GEs cheap crimped fan attachment to motor shaft, 400+ service calls run by us.

Open motor winding's, probably due to how hot these motors run.

Bad bearings due to cheap sleeve type bearings used, new PSC motors all have ball bearing motors.

These GE Shaded pole DW motors were not any more powerful at pumping water than the replacement PSC pump and motors, in fact the SP motors did not run at a constant speed and often labored to keep running as the speed varied.

The only good thing about the GE SP DW pump motor was all the heat blowing around under the DW was great for drying up leaks from the drain valve trip shaft seal and main seal.

As to the durability of newer style motor go there in no comparison. I think we have only ever replaced about one or maybe two capacitors on the new style GE DW motors, there is NO reason these capacitors are likely to fail in 30-40 years.

When you look at our scrap motor pile there are almost never any new style washer or DW motors in it, 90% of the motors we recycle are split phase and a lot of these older GE SP DW motors.

John L.

Your vast knowledge and experience have helped me with problems (especially on GE vintage appliances) countless times over the years.

How interesting that we both noted torque and heat as problems with the general motor design. At this point, I automatically change out electrolytic capacitors on any vintage appliance - any built over 30 years ago are either already or will very soon be leaky as all get out.

Yup, this one was already chattering.  I was surprised I didn't have to un-stick this one, given how it had sat.

Let's recollect that they live forever, don't cause problems with electronic boards and relais and don't have starting capacitors to fail.

That's not nothing.

I like their newer vintage split-phase with capacitor start and power. The later versions (the Hotpoint, especially) just aren't as powerful.

Would it be possible to add a non-polarized film capacitor, across the motor winding to absorb the inductance from the motor when power is cut, limiting the spark across the timer contacts?  Like say a .047uf at 600VAC or higher?  1600VAC capacity might be best. 

This would save wear on the motor contacts.

Also for pitted contact repairs, a burnishing tool comes in handy.