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Thread Number: 6485
Staber washing machines |
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Post# 130645 5/22/2006 at 18:54 (6,542 days old) by luxflairguy  (Wilmington NC) |
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I just ran across Staber washing machines today will surfing. Top loading horizontal axis. Very interesting. Anyone have one? Would like to learn more about them Greg | ||
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Post# 130721 , Reply# 2 5/23/2006 at 02:13 (6,541 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Wow... | ||
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Post# 130797 , Reply# 3 5/23/2006 at 11:46 (6,541 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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I was THIS close to buying one.......... Front and back drum supports and user-sevicable parts make this one potentially long-lasting! CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch's LINK | ||
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Post# 131326 , Reply# 7 5/26/2006 at 01:44 (6,538 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Steven,
having the bearings on both sides can, but need not make the machine more stable. I worked on an awful lot of Miele TL H-Axis machines which had spin vibration problems you wouldn't believe due to the two bearing set-up. They switched to the one bearing solution (sort of like some motorcycles) and the problems all went away... Bauknecht (before evil Whirlpool ate them) "solved" the problem with a clever self-centering design and good electronics. AEG solved the problem with cast iron frames and engineering precision...still, if an AEG TL H-Axis had repeated failures in the 1970's through early 90's, this was frequently the reason. I have no idea how good or bad these machines are, but I suspect that for someone "off-grid" they are a much better bet than the current range of European and Korean H-Axis. Mine has a 900 W motor and a set of condensors you could use to power half of LA. If their web-site info is to be believed, they get by with much less current demand. | ||
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Post# 131417 , Reply# 8 5/26/2006 at 21:26 (6,538 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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That's very interesting info about the two-bearing designs. The Staber is a very interesting design, worthy of praise in several areas, not the least of which is originality. The Staber has a number of drawbacks, as Toggs mentioned, the "user servicable" selling point is one of the biggest in my opinion. For the majority of washing machine purchasers, a good service and parts network is essential since most people have no idea what goes on inside of their toilet tank, refrigerator, vacuum, take your pick, let alone how to even begin replacing the bearings in their washer should they fail despite the claims of detailed instructions and telephone factory support. One of the other major drawbacks is the capacity. For the footprint of the washer, it has a surprisingly small capacity when compared with similar domestic laundry products. Add to that, the small opening to gain access to the wash-drum with a metal latch and rather sharp edges, etc. Their dispenser only takes liquid detergents and additives and this is possibly one of the loudest spinning machines I've ever witnessed. I believe this may be in part due to the fact that the drum isn't round, with all those angled sides it tends to reverberate inside the outer drum and cabinet. It was a very cool machine to experience in person and you really have to hand it to the company for having an original idea, making it and jumping into a fiercely competetive market dominated by a few giant manufacturers. The fact that they have had the fortitude to last this long is worth a tip of the hat! | ||
| Post# 131438 , Reply# 9 5/27/2006 at 07:31 (6,537 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
new model out | ||
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Post# 131450 , Reply# 10 5/27/2006 at 09:36 (6,537 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 131459 , Reply# 11 5/27/2006 at 12:21 (6,537 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 135266 , Reply# 13 6/12/2006 at 11:54 (6,521 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 135275 , Reply# 14 6/12/2006 at 13:12 (6,521 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Only 32 minutes?
1- To us that is what we want. It has been the *gold standard* for 50 years, here. 2- Heaters are nice, but again they are not what we are used to. 3- A fast spin is a nice time and energy saver, but adds wrinkles. if the dryer happens to set these wrinkle and you have to iron, you may end up using MORE energy, no? Methinks the American way is to make life convenient and TIME saving. [Time IS money said the ho.] Energy and water use be-damned!!!!!! (well it WAS anyway. LOL) | ||
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Post# 135281 , Reply# 15 6/12/2006 at 14:09 (6,521 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Toggles, IIRC, tumblewashers with very short cycles like the Speedqueen FLs for example, didn`t they get awful reviews for their cleaning ability ??? Even if you get along very well without a heater in a traditional toploader, in a "tumblewasher" with that little pool of hot water and that large amount of cold drum and clothes the lack of a heater to me just means poor design. As to spinspeeds, american dryers are quite good and cope well with poorly spun clothes. But as long as you use a dryer at all, there is no reason to be afraid of wrinkles. The heat of the dryer eases the fibers even if spun with 2800 rpm in a spindryer. My piont is that even a Whirlpool Duet seems a much better deal to me. | ||
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Post# 135637 , Reply# 18 6/14/2006 at 19:52 (6,519 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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| Post# 135667 , Reply# 19 6/14/2006 at 23:30 (6,518 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
The Staber uses no more or less electricity than any other frontloader without a heater. It wasn't developed for off-grid households, however it kinda found a market there. Staber has been trying to break into the commercial and domestic mainstream market, but their company is too small and their marketing too weak to beat out the big three. Pitching their wears to small eco-friendly niche catalogs targeted to tree huggers is one way they have tapped into a market. OTOH, they have appeared at several international cleaners and launderers trade shows only to be ignored. They are laying low, relying on word of mouth and niche marketing, and probably doing very well for themselves.
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| Post# 135716 , Reply# 21 6/15/2006 at 09:29 (6,518 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Who's threatened? Boilwash lives across the pond. He probably is just going on what he is seeing and hearing and coming to some inaccurate conclusion, that and being strongly biased towards internal heaters in washers. Who's threatened? You had a good post about lifestyle up until the "Why" line. Keep it on the washers, please. | ||
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Post# 135765 , Reply# 22 6/15/2006 at 14:10 (6,518 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Hey, wait a minute..... | ||
| Post# 135769 , Reply# 23 6/15/2006 at 14:39 (6,518 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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One of the good things about the Staber is that there are very few electrical/computer components to it. I believe the timer is electro-mechanical, and I don't think there is a motor control board or fancy lid lock. It seems like it's the computer components of modern washers that give the problems, flashing error codes and needing a good hardboot to reset properly. The other thing that seems to tie up modern washers is the number of sensors on them, especially the spin/out of balance sensors and any oversudsing sensors. So the electronics are sensitive and the sensors are sensitive, and if you look at the machine funny, it might not work. I think the Staber solved all that by being a machine, not a computer, so it just does what it is meant to do and probably does it quite well. Seems to me that the problems that people have complained about have not been washability related, rather a mechanical problem that they didn't feel like they wanted to mess with (even tho' they were probably told they would have to do repairs themselves). That said, there is actually a strong case FOR the Staber... | ||
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Post# 135779 , Reply# 24 6/15/2006 at 15:56 (6,518 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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I like MY way better....
Bottom line, boys, is that on a 120v system a 15a wiring/circuit can carry 1,800w +/- MAX. On 240v the same 15a line/wiring/circuit can carry 3,600 watts, +/- max. *So you guys have heaters in the washer and we don't. (more powerful). *You guys have a *plug-and-play* [works on any circuit] electric dryers of 3,500 watts or less, IIRC. (less powerful) *our dryers have a dedicated 30a line (or use natural gas) so wa CAN go to the approximately 5,600w ours use (more powerful). Washers and dryers have evolved differently based on the evolution of other systems within our continents including analogous electrical systems and buildng techniques. We use a hot water fill in appliances in that our fossil-fueled hot-water heaters are more economical that heating water electrically. (we have had gas in larger cities since let's say 1870+/-. My understanding is that there are parts of Europe that did not see natural gas till the 1970's). Our hot water heaters, even electric ones are *on* constantly. (Less stress on the electrical grid. Our need for air conditioning in many regions is the stress on our electrical system). In Europe my understading is that there are very many instantaneous-demand heaters. (That may be a stress on the electrical system). Imagine if everyone were to shower at the same realtive time to get ready for work? I am not judging or criticizing or saying that one is better or worse than the other. Appliances has simply evolved based on other local preferences and ways IIRC all Euro appliances are (were?) generally 60 cm (24 inches)wide; makes remodeling a bit easier. Here we have 24" (60cm) DW-ers, 27" W&D (68.5cm); 30"(75 cm) cookers and refrigerators that are 24" (60cm) to 36"(90cm) wide. Like everything else in life, what you are used to is "the right way". Case in point. My aunt has been living here for 50 years having come from Europe @ 20 y.o. She likes her American window screens and central air-conditiong. She goes to visit relatives and tells us, if you open the windows you die of bugs (no screens) and street noise (including motorcycles) and dust. If you shut them you die of heat. Her European realtives come here and freak out over the supposed cost of cooling and the energy consumed. Both ways of thinking have merit. Again I am not judging. So let's not criticize each others' ways, but better let's expand our minds and see "how the other half lives". Love and understanding is like the ocean. Give someone who needs it a cup full, and there is still plenty to go around. (seemingly limitless). :-0 Ok I will stop preaching now. | ||
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Post# 135820 , Reply# 25 6/15/2006 at 17:47 (6,518 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Post# 135852 , Reply# 26 6/15/2006 at 18:26 (6,518 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Toggles, you are so right and I`ve enjoyed your preaching. Things just developed differently due to different conditions. In Europe, let`s better say in Germany the large majority of todays homes have gas- or oil-fired water heaters just like you guys have. (Constantly on). Instantaneous Gas heaters are not very popular here and electicity is quite expensive. So you would only find these water heaters in older buildings where modernization cost had to be keept down. I think the reason for us haveing cold fills only is because cold water slowly heatet up doesen`t set stains. Of course I understand that a heater in a washer like we have is simply not possible or desireable with a 120V system or for a traditional Toploader. But as a low Wattage booster just in a so called HE machine it surely would do a good job. Didnt`t mean to be a smart-ass, it`s just that we have about 50 years of experience with the "revolving drum" overhere and I still think the Staber might be disappointing with performance, though it could certainly be a sturdy, good machine. | ||
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Post# 135862 , Reply# 27 6/15/2006 at 19:09 (6,518 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 135868 , Reply# 28 6/15/2006 at 19:23 (6,518 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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If water heaters are a stress on the European electrical system, is that why people in ......don't like to shower? If this is the case I'd say it's a a carryover from when bathing was thought to be unhealthy before hot water (and central heating) was plentiful and easy. Getting wet and a draft was thought to cause a cold. Today we know that part of it is from touching the bridge of your nose by your eyes with contaminated hands. (germ entry point). Europeans are not so fussy with natural body smells. Just an accepted part of nature. But then again they accepts food spoilage as normal too and don't accept half the sh*t we put into our *foods*. Perhaps they know a thing or two. Cultural imperatives are learned. As I once said, a beautiful voluptuous stylish French young ladu in a beautiful red dress and a nice hairdo and face turned MY head, (yes MY head). [Who freikin' says miracles don't happen? HA!] So far so good. She lifted her arms (in a spaghetti strap dress to light a cigarette, and her fingers were yellowed, her teeth were black and missing and there was a jungle in her armpits. Not so good to us. Not a thing wrong there. It's all what you come to expect as normal. Again a number of facors are involved in every little bit of culture and societal norms that evolve. My hunch is that over the smell of wine and cigarettes B.O. is barely noticable. (LOL) Sorry to digress. | ||
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Post# 136022 , Reply# 30 6/16/2006 at 11:02 (6,517 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 136025 , Reply# 31 6/16/2006 at 11:32 (6,517 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Working in a function with the public I can say that most of my fellow countrymen are bathing every day and using deodorant as well. I don't think water heaters are putting stress on the electrical system, overhere in the Netherlands most water heaters are gas heaters or integrated in the central heating system. In Germany some people have on demand electrical water heaters, but that is no problem for their electrical system, although some of them go up to 27 kW. I'm surprised that that young French lady had a jungle under her arms. Even I shave there. As a matter of fact today I bought a new body hair trimmer and shaver. 
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Post# 136029 , Reply# 32 6/16/2006 at 11:42 (6,517 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 136031 , Reply# 33 6/16/2006 at 11:44 (6,517 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 136033 , Reply# 34 6/16/2006 at 11:49 (6,517 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 136034 , Reply# 35 6/16/2006 at 11:51 (6,517 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Don't tempt me. | ||
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Post# 136041 , Reply# 36 6/16/2006 at 12:04 (6,517 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 136054 , Reply# 37 6/16/2006 at 13:16 (6,517 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Post# 136070 , Reply# 38 6/16/2006 at 14:33 (6,517 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 136074 , Reply# 39 6/16/2006 at 14:43 (6,517 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 136078 , Reply# 40 6/16/2006 at 15:04 (6,517 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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| Post# 136105 , Reply# 41 6/16/2006 at 19:51 (6,517 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 136119 , Reply# 42 6/16/2006 at 22:22 (6,516 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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But it's hard to talk about washing machines without talking about personal hygiene - After all, that is why people HAVE washing machines. I always wondered why European machines like Miele were supposed to be so good with the long boil washes - to make up for the lack of showers? Foraloysis, you are right about Areva being French, but I am puzzled - In their "Energy Experts" video they say "We live in a world of energy, energy to feed ourselves, heat ourselves, move from place to place, and communicate". Notice they don't mention "Clean ourselves". I'm glad your people do shower, I had coworkers in an office who didn't. Good thing Sam's Club had a good deal on Oust. | ||
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