Thread Number: 64919  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Sears Dears, the Lady needs your help
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Post# 875429   4/3/2016 at 08:21 (2,916 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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Well, after a week of wrangling and relocating, it was time, finally, for a test run. I have to say it's a hell of a lot easier to hook up this Lady than it is to early Filter Flo's with their g-damn inlet valves tucked up inside the machine with a f--cking cabinet strut in front of them. Amazing that CU missed this detail. So I set the Lady for the big-deal cycle with the Pre-Wash, hot water, etc. She came to life god bless her, filled and started to agitate on slow speed. The fill was VERY dribble-y, anything to be done about that? She filled all the way to the bottom of the basket guard; gave me a little concern, but I love it when LARGE means large ( I think I will name her "Large Marge"):


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Post# 875430 , Reply# 1   4/3/2016 at 08:26 (2,916 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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Agitation smooth and quiet! Did they do things on TOL's to make them quieter than their cheaper siblings? Seems to be a pattern.

 

One of the things I love about this particular model is that they went to the trouble of creating a gorgeous little pink jewel behind the clear cycle dial as a marker. When the panel light is lit, the jewel glows like an LED (somebody at the 1900 company was thinking about the future). Here's my first sign of trouble: after 6 minutes I noticed that we're still at the beginning of the Pre-Wash agitation period. Oh dear.


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Post# 875431 , Reply# 2   4/3/2016 at 08:32 (2,916 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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So I watched, fretted and waited and decided to move the dial manually to the neutral drain:


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Post# 875432 , Reply# 3   4/3/2016 at 08:44 (2,916 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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Something woke up! The machine did its neutral drain, which went very slowly (I'll have to check the hoses for clogs), but the machine went into the spin on its own and I could hear clicking sounds from the dial and it turned on its own. This machine has a stealthy safety switch; it makes no kind of clicking sound letting me know whether it's engaged or not. Must be one of those level-bubble switches.

 

Well, the timer continued to the end of the spin cycle and then the machine paused with a loud click and then a loud period of odd buzzing for a little more than a minute. Then the cycle dial moved again, into the beginning of the WASH period. At this point all went silent. No fill, no buzzing and after a couple of minutes I realized that I had a problem. The machine just stopped working. I moved the dial ahead manually to see if I could budge it into filling, but it had a fit and started to make agitation noises, but the agitator didn't do anyting. Finally, I moved the dial into the first SPIN portion of the cycle, and it continued, without a hitch, into the RINSE FILL, then it rinsed while it flushed out the detergent dispenser, drained, still flushing, and went into SPIN and turned itself OFF. Scratching my head. I'm going to try some of the other cycles today to see if I can diagnose the problem. At first I thought I had a bad timer motor, but it seems more likely, unfortunately, that I have a bad cycle controller. I had a video of the machine working, but I can't find it now. Will do another one.


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Post# 875433 , Reply# 4   4/3/2016 at 08:59 (2,916 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Interpret as you want

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At the end of the spin, I found this on the bottom of the tub.


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Post# 875434 , Reply# 5   4/3/2016 at 09:01 (2,916 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

Please keep us posted as to how the rest of the test cycle turns out. I'm trying to remember how long my grandmother had this machine and I'm blanking... At least 20 years, I'm pretty sure.

 

Jim


Post# 875436 , Reply# 6   4/3/2016 at 09:08 (2,916 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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Well one of those things on the bottom of the tub sure made this machine run by God's grace...!


-- Dave


Post# 875449 , Reply# 7   4/3/2016 at 10:17 (2,916 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)        
(Large gasp)

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um, um, ah.....God moves in mysterious ways.  I truly believe the divinity has shone upon you...... or at least this washer.

 

And that would scare the hell out of me.  lol



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Post# 875463 , Reply# 8   4/3/2016 at 11:58 (2,916 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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keep at it and let us know what else you discover that seems somewhat odd and out of place in functions......

the solenoid that allows the dispenser to flush can be loud at times.....

also the solenoids for the bleach/softener can vibrate....

slow drain can be a pump issue, or the by-pass valve mounted to the side of the tub may be worn, allowing water to re-enter the outter tub...




granted there was a time when GE filterflos were a pain to get at that fill valve....but their thought process was to allow the machine to be placed almost flush to a wall for installation.....granted we move machines a lot so its seems like a hassle, but for the regular person and install, once done, its forgotten until a hose needs replaced....

even some new machines have their valves recessed, which makes it difficult to get pliers around the connector....

also, some hoses have a 90 degree bend at the connector end with helps for some installs.....



Post# 875486 , Reply# 9   4/3/2016 at 17:49 (2,915 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I'm wondering

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Whether some particular contact is either staying closed or open which should be the other way on one of the myriad solenoids, sensors or selector switches this beautiful machine has.

Lacking more specific knowledge of this machine, I'd start there checking the constant state and active state of each switch/sensor/solenoid. Oh, and cleaning all the contacts, too.

Hmm - is it possible the motor has a capacitor which is on it's last legs? Centrifigual switch assemblies did (and still do) much more on Whirlpool appliances than on GE. 

Beautiful girl, I must say.

Oh, and large should always mean large. Totally agree.

 


Post# 875488 , Reply# 10   4/3/2016 at 18:21 (2,915 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
HELP!

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I'm sorry, I've forgotten how to post videos on these forums. I have 4 of this machine working and I'm drawing a blank.


Post# 875489 , Reply# 11   4/3/2016 at 18:26 (2,915 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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Until I figure out how to post the videos, or somebody comes to the rescue, check out the condition of the agitator, the post underneath it and the shine on the tub. Whoever the user of this machine was, she/he/it took very good care of it.

 

I'm happy to report that all 3 dispensers work. When I choose the normal cycle it did shift from Normal to Slow speed agitation. The timer/control dial is a bit of a mystery. As you'll see in the videos cycle/timer motor control seems to work sporadically; I have to give it a nudge once in a while, but maybe the machine has been sitting in a basement for a long while and left unused. Spiders, mice and other agents of nature sometimes gum up the works and it may be that the machine will need some use to get it back to working order. That's how I was able finally to remove the agitator. It's a nice fantasy, at least.


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Post# 875496 , Reply# 12   4/3/2016 at 18:51 (2,915 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
Really cool washer Ken!

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Congrats one a really nice find, this machine seems to be in excellent cosmetic condition, NICE!

I have a few things to mention that might help:

1) The water is not supposed to fill that high up. If it is touching the bottom of the tub ring, something like a sock could go over the rim of the wash basket and into the outer tub. This level of water can also push water up higher on the center post and encourage the agitator shaft splines to rust. Typical water level on these is 1.25 to 1.5 inches above the last row of holes of the basket.

2) On the start up on Pre-wash, sometimes the very beginning of a cycle doesn't activate everything the timer, in your case perhaps the timer motor? I noticed in one of my KM dryers that if I try to use every second of a timed cycle, the heater won't come on for several minutes, whereas it comes on almost immediately if started further into the cycle.

3) Martin is right about the drain period. A side check valve could be failing which would cause a slow drain. I had a similar size machine recently that took its full two minutes to drain, wasn't finished draining, and started to spin with a couple inches of water still in the tub.

I am going to re-read the rest of your post now, but wanted to make these three comments before I study the rest.

Gordon


Post# 875508 , Reply# 13   4/3/2016 at 20:14 (2,915 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Ken, if this helps,  you have to post the video to YouTube first, then paste the link to that video into the thread.

 

Beauty of a machine - PentaFlex agitators rule!!


Post# 875798 , Reply# 14   4/6/2016 at 09:59 (2,913 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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Is the side-check valve responsible for the water that recirculates(or not)back into the washbasket through the detergent dispenser? It seems to keep the recirculation off for the Pre-Wash but I've noticed that the water continues to recirculate during all of the neutral drains which would and does slow down the emptying of the tub. Is this what's happening?


Post# 875801 , Reply# 15   4/6/2016 at 11:07 (2,913 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)        

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It sounds like the main dispenser solenoid valve may be stuck open.  This is the valve mounted on one of the transmission support arms. Because the dispenser and the valve uses USED water, instead of fresh water, any lint or gunk in the wash water goes through the dispenser system.  Over time that gunk can and does plug up these otherwise fun dispensers.  

 

If it were me, and it soon will be me who owns a triple dispenser TOL model, I will replumb the dispenser so it uses fresh water.

 

Otherwise, remove the back panel and with the machine unplugged, try operating the valve manually, to see if the flapper opens and closes as it should.


Post# 875806 , Reply# 16   4/6/2016 at 11:20 (2,913 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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OK, but remember that the valve does remain closed during the pre-wash agitation period, as it should so it is operating properly during that interval. I will check it though.



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This post was last edited 04/06/2016 at 11:36
Post# 875811 , Reply# 17   4/6/2016 at 12:14 (2,913 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)        

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Yes, after reviewing your vid., it does seem sluggish.  Even the flow from the dispenser is not what one would expect.  It does sound like the valve is not the issue, but something larger.

 

1. check the tension of the belt.  If the belt is slipping, it may not be turning the pump as it should.

2. check the lint filter. It appears this machine was at a nunnery.  It could be plugged with more habit pins, ground up bits of crucifix, and lint from a bloody alter cloth.

3 It could be the pump needs replacement.

4. check the sump. If a wayward crucifix turned up in the tub, Heaven only knows whats stuck in the very bowels of this beast.  If the water level has always been this improperly high, something(s) may well have overflowed the tub rim and into the sump, restricting the flow.  You should be so fortunate to only need to empty that and your problem be solved.  If your lucky you'll find several gold nuggets and some condoms in there, in which case, ones suspicions of what goes on in a convent shall be confirmed, but at least you'll get paid for getting your hands dirty. 

5. Checking the hoses in general for clogs.

6. Adjust the water level so it doesn't fill so high in the future.  That can cause several problems.

7. Pray for forgiveness for even the slightest infractions.  I believe.... you've got a live one here. Make sure this puppy is plugged into a GFI outlet.  When the demons show their faces, you don't want to take a chance on getting the shock of your life.

 

 


Post# 875812 , Reply# 18   4/6/2016 at 12:21 (2,913 days old) by COLDSPOT66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

That dispenser valve should be closed during drain periods. IIRC it does flush during a rinse cycle and the first 2 or 4 minutes of a wash cycle. It does not flush during prewash. I think the valve has a spring that helps to keep the valve closed. Might be broken.

Post# 875868 , Reply# 19   4/6/2016 at 21:31 (2,912 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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You've given me a big punch list to follow.

 

I did a load of towels this evening and chose the COTTONS/WHITE cycle. No water entered the machine after several tries; I switched to the COTTONS/COLORED cycle and the machine began to fill. After nudging the cycle dial a couple of times, it seemed to proceed and the cycle dial advanced into slow agitation and then finished the cycle with one period of normal agitation. I timed the cycle motor intervals; it seems to move the dial ever 135 seconds. When I came back to the machine, expecting that it had completed the cycle (the dial had moved to OFF and the panel light was off) I opened the lid and found a full tub of crystal clear hot water. Everything seemed to have happened, but how I ended up with a full tub of water at the end of the cycle, I would have liked to have seen.

 

This glorious TOL is very beautiful and a lot of fun to play with, but I'm going to have to wait until I'm given permission to lift heavy stuff before I take a crack at it. Thanks to everyone for input, suggestions, help and encouragement.



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Post# 875922 , Reply# 20   4/7/2016 at 09:38 (2,912 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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the detergent dispenser gets its supply of water from a "J" tube connected to the main drain sump....there are a few configurations for this, but all the same in function....

the bleach/softener dispenser for some machines drain directly into the outter tub, and some models pipe it into that check valve to be distributed throughout the load...

I would venture into that check valve and pump for replacement options....

granted the dispenser flushes for about 2 minutes into the wash portion and during the agitation part of rinsing, any other time, it should be off....

keep us posted...


Post# 875927 , Reply# 21   4/7/2016 at 10:45 (2,912 days old) by MixGuy (St. Martinville, Louisiana)        
Is this not a 3 speed machine?

Does this machine have 3 agitate speeds? Custom Care button activate the third slower speed to agitate? This is my favorite Kenmore Model, my local catalog store had this model set up for demo with water and red, white and blue poker chips in the tub.


Post# 875935 , Reply# 22   4/7/2016 at 11:24 (2,912 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

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Martin,

 

I think you're right about the additive dispensers emptying into that check valve; it seems that the bluing that I've used to test the Bleach and Fabric Softener dispensers shows up first in the flow from the Detergent dispenser and judging from the loud banging solenoid sounds I've heard, both of those dispensers seem to work when the cycle dial is working. The Detergent dispenser flow remains reliably OFF during the pre-wash cycle; it's on at all other times during all the spin periods and all the other agitation periods so at least I know that the solenoid controlling that valve works positively during that period. And, BTW, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

 

What effect would/could the keys have on the control dial besides providing stops to force the user into setting the correct cycle? I'm wondering if there's some kind of problem that they're responsible for because, so far, every system on this machine(besides the cycle control BUT including the timer motor) can and does work when the control is working and the dial is moving automatically.

 

Yes, Russell, this is that model and I've seen the extra-slow speed work when I've pressed the CUSTOM CARE key. One of the nice things about this purchase in that the nuns or the little old lady who owned this machine saved all of the paperwork so I was able to read everything from cover to cover while I waited for help getting it off of the truck and into the basement. Those options keys make sense and are somewhat useful.

 

I think this machine also has a complicated mixing inlet valve that is being affected by whatever the big problem is. I love the idea of the nuns and finding more religious artifacts preserved in the machine. Maybe I'll write a script for "Indiana Jones and the Lady (Kenmore) in White".

 

In this latest short video the machine is successfully shifting from NORMAL to SLOW agitation speed in the middle of the wash period. It does this without a hitch whenever the control dial is moving on its own, either after nudging or on the rare times it starts up from the beginning. I can tell because I'll either hear the familiar clicking sounds I hear on other automatics, or not:

 



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Post# 875947 , Reply# 23   4/7/2016 at 12:00 (2,912 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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interesting.....'heavy duty' is missing from the one control panel.....it by-passed the step-down agitation speed at the 4/6 minute mark.....high speed washing at all times...

in place it has the 'cold rinse' option.....I would have thought all rinses would have been cold unless a warm rinse was selected...


thanks for the wishes Ken.....we will hook up one day and view all the 'Alien' movies....maybe a weekend wash-in/video event?


Post# 875955 , Reply# 24   4/7/2016 at 12:59 (2,912 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>I think this machine also has a complicated mixing inlet valve that is being affected by whatever the big problem is.

As I commented on the thread talking about finding this washer, my mother had one. One of the few breakdowns that machine had was the inlet valve. Charmingly, it broke with the cold water inlet open... And, predictably, that was the evening the handle on the cold water tap decided it was time to snap off... It was thrilling adventure resetting the washer to drain endlessly, while trying to find a way of getting the water to shut off. At least, the clothes were well rinsed. (And thankfully no flood!)

That aside...the valve was expensive to replace. Even the repairman was stunned. (I hate to say it, but I later wondered, due to a news story, if he didn't scam us. Although now I have to think that the valve probably was more expensive.) I also recall someone was stunned that we fixed due to the cost. The repair was probably quite a bit cheaper than a new machine, but, of course, there was that argument of "well, a 20 year old washer, and you might as well just cough up 2, 3 hundred more and get something new with warranty!" The "throw away when it breaks" attitude existed ca. 1990 as well as today.

It's also fun seeing the slowdown video. I had no idea (at least consciously) until recently that the machine did anything but run at "normal" until the end of the cycle. Interesting to find out otherwise, and now that I think of it, I can remember the sound of the washer changing when the speed dropped...

I have to admit mixed feelings about the LK. On one level, it is a washer I'd really, really, really like to have. Partly because of personal history, and partly because it is one of the more interesting machine from a collector view. BUT I find myself disliking the complexity, which can create problems--when things Go Wrong they may Go Really Horribly Wrong. It's also probably not the best washer for the Laundry Room Control Freak, although I suppose it's better than that TOL Maytag. At least, the LK does allow some control. (I even remember the "Selective Dialing" button--my mother would use that to shorten some cycle times.)


Post# 876038 , Reply# 25   4/7/2016 at 17:07 (2,912 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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Not sure if this repair method would work, but it might be worth a try...

Get a picture of a brand new Kia and hang up in the laundry room. Tell the LK "If you don't behave, you might become one of these!"

Sometimes, threats--even empty ones--can get action...


Post# 876041 , Reply# 26   4/7/2016 at 17:38 (2,911 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)        

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LordKenmore  , I think this holier-than-thou washer, that apparently came from a nunnery, is territory for your divine providence.   I question not your words and theology.  

All I ask and pray, is that I not be bestowed with similar washer that is so possessed by unknown spirits.


Post# 876121 , Reply# 27   4/8/2016 at 08:34 (2,911 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Best of luck with getting your Lady fixed up bajaspuma. I always admired this model in the Sear's catalog. A


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