Thread Number: 65455  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
CU Report on Washers, May, 2016
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Post# 880538   5/13/2016 at 07:32 (2,876 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Just saw the new issue. They did not test the Speed Queen FL at all. Would one of you who has a subscription please write them and let them know they should test this machine? Thank you.




Post# 880554 , Reply# 1   5/13/2016 at 10:05 (2,876 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
Actually they did test it but you have to go online to see the ratings. The ratings that they published was recommended models only. My thinking is that I pay plenty to get the magazine at home and they should print all of the ratings instead of doing what they do. They want to empty your wallet for an online subscription as well. I never used mine that much so I let it lapse and the emails I get from them is a tad much at times.

Post# 880562 , Reply# 2   5/13/2016 at 10:40 (2,876 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Stopped buying and mostly reading CR years ago.

launderess's profile picture
Also think it takes some darn cheek to ask for someone who has already paid for a subscription to pay again for online access. Worse all the good content is online including much of the deep reviews.

So what again are people who subscribe to the print issue paying for?


Post# 880573 , Reply# 3   5/13/2016 at 11:19 (2,876 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thanks, I did not know that, although I cannot imagine the SQ not being recommended. I just happened by the serials rack in the Sci, Tech and "Bidness" Reading Room and saw the new issue. Stupid them, they talked about the best Washer-Dryer Combination for your needs. Most of those whipper-snappers are too young to know the error of their terminology. The issue does pay tribute to the magazine's 80 anniversary this month.

I'll tell you something else, too. I pick up repair parts each Thursday as I have since 1981 and the SQ parts are FAR cheaper than comparable parts for other brands of washers and dryers, not to mention that they are made here in the USA.


Post# 880627 , Reply# 4   5/13/2016 at 17:07 (2,876 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
The new Speed Queen received a total score of 70 (top-scorers from Maytag, LG and Samsung received 80-85). Very Good for cleaning performance and energy efficiency. Excellent for water efficiency and gentleness to clothing. Rated only Good for capacity and noise. Resistance to vibration, Very Good.

They test using the Normal cycle at the highest soil-level setting, which timed in at 55 minutes---substantially shorter than all other front-loaders, which ranged from 70-110 minutes. I'd bet the farm that cleaning rating would jump to Excellent if the wash tumble was 20 minutes longer.

As for capacity, most of my loads would fit comfortably in the SQ's 3.42 cu.ft. drum---although I have to admit that the Maytag 8100's 4.5 cu. ft. drum is awesome when you wash queen-size comforters a lot, as I do. Also great for giant loads of bath linens. The top-rated Samsung has a 5.0 cu. ft. drum, but the machine won't fit through my early '60s laundry room doorway.

Back on point: It scored quite a bit higher than the previous SQ front-loader, but not quite high enough to put it in the top one-third of the ranking---which is usually what gets covered in their magazine.

If pressed to choose, I'd definitely drop the mag and keep the online version. (Let me save you the trouble: "Drop both! I wouldn't want either of the damn things!"). LOL!




This post was last edited 05/13/2016 at 18:10
Post# 880714 , Reply# 5   5/14/2016 at 07:53 (2,875 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Eugene, Thank you very much for sharing this information with us. I don't know what it is with size and washing machines. It's like engines in cars in the 60s. I thought that families were getting smaller. How could people need such huge washers? I wonder if the shorter cycle time is because the machine goes into spin so easily and does not have to fiddle-fart around trying to balance the load perfectly. The Speed Queen front loader will probably still be turning out clean clothes long after the plastic machines they liked so much have been recycled.

I still find it ironic with the way CU hated front loaders that front loaders are now the state of the art for laundry.

Oh, by the way, did they bother testing Mieles? Too small for their tastes, probably.

Thanks again.


Post# 880715 , Reply# 6   5/14/2016 at 09:01 (2,875 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I'll say it again, put in the damn heater!!!  Oh, but wait a minute, then it wouldn't be "Speed"y, just an ordinary Queen. 

 

My laundry is cleaned far easier, without interaction with me other than putting stuff in the machine, because of properly maintained temperatures--especially higher temps. 

 

Not ALL families are small.  Some are having 3 & 4 children again. 

 

The bad thing about huge washers is it encourages poor laundry habits.  Throw everything in for a family of 4 every 3-5 days. 


Post# 880747 , Reply# 7   5/14/2016 at 13:41 (2,875 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I would buy a Speed Queen front-loader in a heartbeat if it had:

1) an internal water heater
2) the option for a very, very long wash tumble (60-70 minutes)
3) a 4.5 cu. ft. drum

There is absolutely no question that the SQ front-loader has the best build quality in the US. That's a given. John L. (and others) have also lauded the machine's serviceability. That's rare these days.  The great warranty inspires confidence in the product.

Alliance did a nice job of improving cycle flexibility--especially with the option of multiple extra rinses.

I have a Maytag 8100 and love, love, love it. It has a 4.5 cu. ft drum, but is only 27" wide; it has the footprint of a standard washer---a little deeper, maybe.

Interesting: Here are the times for the Normal Cycle
a) Light Soil = 41 minutes
b) Med. Soil = 44 minutes
c) Max Soil = 75 minutes

 

I'd bet the farm that big jump in cycle length (all of it added to the wash tumble) was to ensure excellent cleaning for CR's tests.  The Normal cycle is the only one featuring such a large increase in time between Medium and Max soil settings.  Most of my loads need only the 41 or 43-minute cycle; but it's nice to have the option of having it bumped to 75 minutes when dealing with very heavy soil or stains.

Bob and I are of the same mind about internal water heaters:  It's a deal-breaker.  We experience unbeatable stain removal using the Sanitize cycle in combination with the steam function.

 

If SQ made those three changes, their machine would shoot to near the top of the ratings; I guarantee it.

 

Having said that, Alliance, whose bread and butter is the commercial industry probably couldn't give two hoots about Consumer Reports' ratings. People looking for the best build quality are going to give serious consideration to SQ regardless of any other shortcomings. 

 

SQ was on my short list back in August (or was it September) when I was in the market for a new washer.  In the end, I felt the Maytag had the best bang for the buck in the areas of performance and features.


Post# 880765 , Reply# 8   5/14/2016 at 14:56 (2,875 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
I don't think washer size is necessarily directly connected with size of family. I'd bet it has more to do with general Laundry Laziness--the average American hates laundry. (I know, this is totally foreign to us. LOL) They want to get it done with Fast. The more the washer holds, the better.

And I suppose it's a selling point having big capacity so that large/bulky items can be done at home (e.g., comforters) that used to require a coin operated laundry.


Post# 880768 , Reply# 9   5/14/2016 at 15:07 (2,875 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>People looking for the best build quality are going to give serious consideration to SQ regardless of any other shortcomings.

I'm not in the market for a new washer, and likely may never have one. But I have to say: SQ quality is a HUGE selling point, or would be if I were in the market. Yes, it's fun having different appliances...but my feelings with washers of today is that they are...just appliances. There isn't the diversity or fun of washers of years gone by... So, with that in mind, I'd be inclined to buy quality and hope it lasts the duration.

Your mileage, of course, may vary...

But the heater issue is one area of concern. I am VERY impressed by the accounts of what an internal heater can do. At the same time, however, I'm not sure it would be that useful for what I need--I don't generate mountains of horribly stained clothes. Also detergent technology is improving--and it may reach a point where there will be no practical reason for super hot temperatures. Maybe, maybe not...



Post# 880796 , Reply# 10   5/14/2016 at 18:05 (2,875 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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@Frigilux - It's interesting that you point out the increase in time on the max soil setting on your Maxima. My Bravos XL does the same thing; Light, Medium, and Heavy soil settings are only a few minutes apart, but the Extra Heavy setting adds 30 minutes more, making the max time for the normal cycle 1:30*. The biggest difference I've noted is that while the agitation period isn't increased much at all, the presoaking/recirculating phase is much, much longer, so I typically just leave the normal cycle set at Extra Heavy because I feel the clothes get their cleanest and the detergent does its best work with that extra soaking. That jump in time isn't there for any other cycles, just like your Maxima. I had never thought about the correlation between that and CR's testing methods before you mentioned it!! The more you know...haha

*for those who I know will put their over-inflated 2 cents in (anti-HE and YouTube trolls specifically): I am well aware of the amount of time the cycle takes, and I'm well aware of the time spent "just spinning and spraying", because that's exactly what I want the machine to do, for the very reason that all that "spinning and spraying" is actually doing a tremendous amount of work by soaking and pretreating heavy stains in concentrated detergent, which is why my clothes do, in fact, come out brilliantly and gently cleaned with only a "cup" of water. Cheers!


Post# 880802 , Reply# 11   5/14/2016 at 18:32 (2,875 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Internal heater's on FL Speed Queen's

mayfan69's profile picture
Speed Queen DOES produce a front loader that HAS an internal heater BUT only for the Chinese market would you believe!

Why? I have no idea.

I downloaded the Parts Manual and it shows a specific model number for the heater model.

I even asked Speed Queen which market this was for and they said the Chinese domestic market in 240 volt.

It's a pity they won't offer that model here in Australia.

Leon


Post# 880810 , Reply# 12   5/14/2016 at 19:11 (2,875 days old) by washman (o)        
I'd certainly consider one

But being a new homeowner with other expenses right now and the TL running just fine, I cannot justify getting another washer.

That being said, if the TL grew legs and walked out, got stolen, or caught fire and burned up, would I get a SQ FL. Certainly.

Hi frig!


Post# 880967 , Reply# 13   5/16/2016 at 00:23 (2,873 days old) by ilovewindex (Tualitan OR)        

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Post# 880979 , Reply# 17   5/16/2016 at 04:03 (2,873 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Jeff-- CR is pretty strict with their copyrights, so we are not supposed to post anything from their magazine or website. Don't be surprised if the four posts above disappear. You are still within the window of time to delete them yourself.

Post# 880980 , Reply# 18   5/16/2016 at 04:22 (2,873 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I have read consumer reports for years now. I personally think they are rather bias about products and have never gotten much help from buying what they recommend. If you look at washers through all the years, they have recommending many that proved to not last very long, such as the Norge machines back in the 50's. In some cases they have been right on, such as through the 60's and 70's rating Maytag washers as the best. But they down rated many machines that were pretty good machines and should have been much higher in rating and up rated machines that were not very good. I think now, it is all about energy and water consumption. So any rating you see has to do mostly with that. The only top loading washer I can see that actually washes and rinses the clothes properly is the speed queen and they down rate it because it uses too much water. The magazine seems pretty useless to me now. As far as how long one will last, that is purely judged by the past and many are too new to make a useful judgement of that, since they change all the time.
When I bought the LG made Kenmore set I have now, it was because I needed something that would hold a king sized feather comforter and it does wash and dry it effectively. So far I have had no issues with either machine, but I consider that lucky. I think these days that with front loaders it is a crap shoot as to how long one will last or how many problems you may have with it. I would probably never buy a top loader again, considering how they are designed to wash clothes now. Speed Queen is the only one left that seems to actually wash and rinse the way a traditional top loader was designed to work and only then, if you select a deep rinse or fabric softener option. I guess all the others just barely get the clothes wet.


Post# 881114 , Reply# 19   5/17/2016 at 05:00 (2,872 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Hi, Ben! Believe me, those homeowner costs never stop. Plan to tuck away several thousand dollars every year for upkeep/replacement. I bet you'd fall in love with a SQ front-load pair when the time comes to replace your top-loader.


Post# 881160 , Reply# 20   5/17/2016 at 09:30 (2,872 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
I have to admit CR lost me many years ago--probably about 1990. I was interested in audio equipment, and rather appalled by the way they seemed to think it was all the same. IIRC, they even bashed Sony ES (premium Sony line) because it didn't measure any better than the entry level Sony. Um...did anyone think about trying Sony ES under real world conditions? That is, actually using it in a living room to play a recording?

Although I still thumb through CR at the library sometimes...

One other issue: times change. We now have the Internet. While I suppose there is something to be said, say, for CR's testing program of detergents, I personally find more value in real world experiences. Yes, there may be people who don't know what they are talking about. Also "your milage may vary." And all that. But when I read something credible (here, for example), about a laundry product, I take it seriously.


Post# 881162 , Reply# 21   5/17/2016 at 09:40 (2,872 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
CR

panthera's profile picture

Has dumbed down to the point of uselessness. They were always biased, case in point - GE Filterflo was the best cleaning washer available for pet owners and they blasted it off the market simply because they could.

Once, though, they actually took their reading public seriously. Today? Worthless trash.

There's more useful information to be found here than in the entire last 30 years of CR.


Post# 881190 , Reply# 22   5/17/2016 at 12:40 (2,872 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
That's Interesting

mark_wpduet's profile picture
that SQ makes a washer with a built in heater in for the Chinese market. Then you had pointed out that they are 240 volts? I forget the voltage numbers here in the USA. I know regular outlets are 110V, then you have the range/oven which is 240 or 220? I can't remember, same with the dryer. No one would have to worry about wash times with built in heaters if we have the 220 or 240 V connection for our washers. I'm the same with my Duet's built in heater. I would get a new SQ in a nano second for my next washer if it had a built in heater. When the outside of the clothes washer gets as hot as a dishwasher, you KNOW those clothes are getting clean.

And there was a topic a while back where the discussion turned into heaters in washers will be a thing of the past and will eventually be phased out because of the energy usage and detergent technology and the push the get folks to use cold water. There were people in the discussion who believed this would be the case.


Post# 881191 , Reply# 23   5/17/2016 at 12:41 (2,872 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
option for a very, very long wash tumble (60-70 minutes)

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

It's interesting there's only a difference of 3 minutes between "light" and "normal soil", but ten times that is added for "heavy".   I'll have to see what the difference is on my machines.

 

Question: Do you think an 60-70 minute wash tumble would have more benefit than doing a pre-wash, then main (heavy) wash?   If so, why?

 

Is detergent technology such that it can release soils and keep it suspended for that entire hour long wash time?

 

What about wear caused to the clothes by tumbling for that long (if that extended cycle is used regularly)?

 

Granted I rarely generate really dirty or stained clothes, but a 60-70 minute main wash just seems excessive to me.

 

To stay on topic, I haven't looked at CU for a few years now.  I had a subscription a few years ago, but found, for the most part, I had little interest in the items they were reporting on.   

 

I'd love to have a new SQ FL washer, but with the line up I have below, I can't exactly justify spending the $$$ for one.

 

Kevin

 

P.S on heaters... I now have 2 washers with built-in heaters, a Kenmore He5t and Maysung (Samtag?) Neptune 9700 (about 3 months now).   But on average I only use the heater in the He5t a couple times a year.   So far I've only used the heater in the Samtag once during it's first cycle to clean it.   After continuous tumbling and heating for nearly an hour, I got bored, figuring that was long enough, cancelled the cycle and reset it to rinse & spin.    FYI... just to bore you, this is my "daily driver" line up (L to R KM He5t, KM He3, Maysung 9700, LG WM1832).

 


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Post# 881217 , Reply# 24   5/17/2016 at 15:55 (2,872 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Speed Queen also make heated versions of the new models for the European market. Heater rating is 4.8 kW.

Post# 881225 , Reply# 25   5/17/2016 at 16:22 (2,872 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)        
1 hour wash tumble

Both of my Mieles have an option for approximately one hour wash tumble. It's called Extended on the W4840, and Intensive on the Little Giant. The manuals recommend it for "laundry with normal to heavy soiling or stains". Without the option it's more like 1/2 hour. I use the long tumble almost all the time, because I see better results with it. Haven't noticed excessive wear on textiles.


Post# 881228 , Reply# 26   5/17/2016 at 17:03 (2,872 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Pre-wash + Wash Or One Long Wash

launderess's profile picture
*Do not wash in dirty water*


For generations and still largely true today a pre-wash or soak then wash will give better results than one long wash cycle. Granted this is for mainly whites/colourfast loads that are badly soiled stained.

Granted modern detergents are vastly improved over soap in many aspects on wash day. This is especially true of anti-soil redeposit properties; but still long wash cycles give dirt a chance to land back on fabrics.

Of course the benefit of using a cold or cool pre-wash or soak before a main hot wash is the removal of certain soils (such as protein)that would be set/cooked into fabrics by the high temperature of main wash.

Historically and perhaps even today commercial laundries had several changes of water. This often accounts for the "whiter than white" results of their laundry.


Post# 881237 , Reply# 27   5/17/2016 at 18:22 (2,872 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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Launderess's talk about prewash reminded me of something...

One point in favor of heaters is the claim that they can help stains that might be set by heat. Some with relevant experience say that slow heating of the water means the stain goes bye-bye before the temperature hits a point where it's hot enough to set the stain.

But...more than once, while dreaming of Speed Queen, it seems to me that a prewash can fix the problem if one is faced with stains that might be set by heat, and a desire for hot water. A prewash to fix the stains up, and then a thorough wash. Of course, one uses more water this way... But in my case, most of what I need is just freshening. I don't have little kids generating mountains of "Oh @#$@#$! What did they do to this shirt!?!?" loads of laundry...

Another reason I'd really like a heater for, however, is sanitizing of laundry.


Post# 881246 , Reply# 28   5/17/2016 at 19:09 (2,872 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

When I had my Lady Shredmore, and even the Fridgemore without heater, I always did a cool/tepid prewash or presoak for badly stained whites/kitchen towels/napkins.  Now, I simply wash in hot or Sanitize; select stain treat with steam  and that heats the water from luke warm to 130 or 155 degrees, which ever I prefer.  I even had very badly bloody stained pair of kakhis and all I did was do the same above, but only  heat to warm.  Detergent for these types of loads is always Tide He with Bleach Alternative.  Even I was impressed with the slacks because they'd sat stained for over a week.  Only once in the nearly 5 years I've had the Duet have I needed a prewash. 


Post# 881281 , Reply# 29   5/18/2016 at 04:54 (2,871 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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One long wash vs. prewash + wash:  For me, it comes down to the amount and type of soil you're dealing with.  If it's a load of muddy gardening clothes, then a prewash is certainly in order.  For loads of heavily-stained kitchen whites, I've found a long profile wash (gradual heating of water from warm to very hot) works great.  I use liquid chlorine bleach on those loads, so an extra rinse must be added.  

 

My previous machine (a Frigidaire front-loader) had a prewash option, but it couldn't be used in conjunction with a profile wash (Sanitize cycle).  Better results were had using the Sanitize cycle alone.  The new washer, a Maytag 8100 has no prewash option, although one can select Rinse/Spin cycle in lieu of that.

 

Tumble washing in a front-loader is very gentle.  I've had no problems with excessive wear to fabrics using a very long (60-70 minutes) wash.  The top-loading impeller-based Frigidaire Immersion Care washer's 65-minute wash (using Stain Treat/heaviest soil level), on the other hand, was absolutely brutal to fabrics.  

 


Post# 881303 , Reply# 30   5/18/2016 at 09:01 (2,871 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
A few answers

panthera's profile picture

Voltages in the US (as in Europe) are all over the map.

The nominal US household current is 120/240 single/split φ .

But we run at 127/254 in our end of Cheyenne. Nearby, a much larger city runs 130 regularly while the county in between runs at 117 (and, according to their spokesidiot, is going to stay there).

Europe settled on a 400v 3φ system, with 230V for low amp. consumers, but with tolerances that can put it way below or way above (bigclive talks about that). This harmonization brought the 220V of mainland Europe and the 230 of the UK into line. Theoretically.

 

Many vintage European FL tumbled the clothes for well over 120 minutes between the pre-wash and the main wash before doing rinses and spins. They didn't wear the clothes out. The detergents were specifically made to keep soil in suspension for longer wash periods.

 

A wash cycle which goes from cold to 45 or 50 or 60 degrees (C) with a slow build up to 45 works very well with enzymes, including today's 'cold' wash enzymes (which still don't do shit in cold water - the reason cold water washing is useless).

 

Protein based stains 'set' quickly in warmer water, as Laundress has explained.

 

There's not a reason on earth the typical US 240V 30 Amp outlet couldn't be used for a heated washing machine using enough water to actually clean and we'd all be better off if they'd throw out the totally failed HE TL design.

 

Too little water, too cold of a temperature and you have dirty clothes and filthy mold, slime and microbe infested machines.

 

Oh, and speaking as a German for a minute, oxygen bleach can clean many stains we believe can only be removed using chlorine bleach in the US.

 




This post was last edited 05/18/2016 at 09:28

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