Thread Number: 65455
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
CU Report on Washers, May, 2016 |
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Post# 880538   5/13/2016 at 07:32 (2,876 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
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Just saw the new issue. They did not test the Speed Queen FL at all. Would one of you who has a subscription please write them and let them know they should test this machine? Thank you. |
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Post# 880554 , Reply# 1   5/13/2016 at 10:05 (2,876 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)   |   | |
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Actually they did test it but you have to go online to see the ratings. The ratings that they published was recommended models only. My thinking is that I pay plenty to get the magazine at home and they should print all of the ratings instead of doing what they do. They want to empty your wallet for an online subscription as well. I never used mine that much so I let it lapse and the emails I get from them is a tad much at times.
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Post# 880562 , Reply# 2   5/13/2016 at 10:40 (2,876 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 880627 , Reply# 4   5/13/2016 at 17:07 (2,876 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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The new Speed Queen received a total score of 70 (top-scorers from Maytag, LG and Samsung received 80-85). Very Good for cleaning performance and energy efficiency. Excellent for water efficiency and gentleness to clothing. Rated only Good for capacity and noise. Resistance to vibration, Very Good.
They test using the Normal cycle at the highest soil-level setting, which timed in at 55 minutes---substantially shorter than all other front-loaders, which ranged from 70-110 minutes. I'd bet the farm that cleaning rating would jump to Excellent if the wash tumble was 20 minutes longer. As for capacity, most of my loads would fit comfortably in the SQ's 3.42 cu.ft. drum---although I have to admit that the Maytag 8100's 4.5 cu. ft. drum is awesome when you wash queen-size comforters a lot, as I do. Also great for giant loads of bath linens. The top-rated Samsung has a 5.0 cu. ft. drum, but the machine won't fit through my early '60s laundry room doorway. Back on point: It scored quite a bit higher than the previous SQ front-loader, but not quite high enough to put it in the top one-third of the ranking---which is usually what gets covered in their magazine. If pressed to choose, I'd definitely drop the mag and keep the online version. (Let me save you the trouble: "Drop both! I wouldn't want either of the damn things!"). LOL! This post was last edited 05/13/2016 at 18:10 |
Post# 880715 , Reply# 6   5/14/2016 at 09:01 (2,875 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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I'll say it again, put in the damn heater!!! Oh, but wait a minute, then it wouldn't be "Speed"y, just an ordinary Queen.
My laundry is cleaned far easier, without interaction with me other than putting stuff in the machine, because of properly maintained temperatures--especially higher temps.
Not ALL families are small. Some are having 3 & 4 children again.
The bad thing about huge washers is it encourages poor laundry habits. Throw everything in for a family of 4 every 3-5 days. |
Post# 880747 , Reply# 7   5/14/2016 at 13:41 (2,875 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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I would buy a Speed Queen front-loader in a heartbeat if it had:
I'd bet the farm that big jump in cycle length (all of it added to the wash tumble) was to ensure excellent cleaning for CR's tests. The Normal cycle is the only one featuring such a large increase in time between Medium and Max soil settings. Most of my loads need only the 41 or 43-minute cycle; but it's nice to have the option of having it bumped to 75 minutes when dealing with very heavy soil or stains. Bob and I are of the same mind about internal water heaters: It's a deal-breaker. We experience unbeatable stain removal using the Sanitize cycle in combination with the steam function.
If SQ made those three changes, their machine would shoot to near the top of the ratings; I guarantee it.
Having said that, Alliance, whose bread and butter is the commercial industry probably couldn't give two hoots about Consumer Reports' ratings. People looking for the best build quality are going to give serious consideration to SQ regardless of any other shortcomings.
SQ was on my short list back in August (or was it September) when I was in the market for a new washer. In the end, I felt the Maytag had the best bang for the buck in the areas of performance and features. |
Post# 880765 , Reply# 8   5/14/2016 at 14:56 (2,875 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
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I don't think washer size is necessarily directly connected with size of family. I'd bet it has more to do with general Laundry Laziness--the average American hates laundry. (I know, this is totally foreign to us. LOL) They want to get it done with Fast. The more the washer holds, the better.
And I suppose it's a selling point having big capacity so that large/bulky items can be done at home (e.g., comforters) that used to require a coin operated laundry. |
Post# 880768 , Reply# 9   5/14/2016 at 15:07 (2,875 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
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>People looking for the best build quality are going to give serious consideration to SQ regardless of any other shortcomings.
I'm not in the market for a new washer, and likely may never have one. But I have to say: SQ quality is a HUGE selling point, or would be if I were in the market. Yes, it's fun having different appliances...but my feelings with washers of today is that they are...just appliances. There isn't the diversity or fun of washers of years gone by... So, with that in mind, I'd be inclined to buy quality and hope it lasts the duration. Your mileage, of course, may vary... But the heater issue is one area of concern. I am VERY impressed by the accounts of what an internal heater can do. At the same time, however, I'm not sure it would be that useful for what I need--I don't generate mountains of horribly stained clothes. Also detergent technology is improving--and it may reach a point where there will be no practical reason for super hot temperatures. Maybe, maybe not... |
Post# 880796 , Reply# 10   5/14/2016 at 18:05 (2,875 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
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@Frigilux - It's interesting that you point out the increase in time on the max soil setting on your Maxima. My Bravos XL does the same thing; Light, Medium, and Heavy soil settings are only a few minutes apart, but the Extra Heavy setting adds 30 minutes more, making the max time for the normal cycle 1:30*. The biggest difference I've noted is that while the agitation period isn't increased much at all, the presoaking/recirculating phase is much, much longer, so I typically just leave the normal cycle set at Extra Heavy because I feel the clothes get their cleanest and the detergent does its best work with that extra soaking. That jump in time isn't there for any other cycles, just like your Maxima. I had never thought about the correlation between that and CR's testing methods before you mentioned it!! The more you know...haha
*for those who I know will put their over-inflated 2 cents in (anti-HE and YouTube trolls specifically): I am well aware of the amount of time the cycle takes, and I'm well aware of the time spent "just spinning and spraying", because that's exactly what I want the machine to do, for the very reason that all that "spinning and spraying" is actually doing a tremendous amount of work by soaking and pretreating heavy stains in concentrated detergent, which is why my clothes do, in fact, come out brilliantly and gently cleaned with only a "cup" of water. Cheers! |
Post# 880802 , Reply# 11   5/14/2016 at 18:32 (2,875 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)   |   | |
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Speed Queen DOES produce a front loader that HAS an internal heater BUT only for the Chinese market would you believe!
Why? I have no idea. I downloaded the Parts Manual and it shows a specific model number for the heater model. I even asked Speed Queen which market this was for and they said the Chinese domestic market in 240 volt. It's a pity they won't offer that model here in Australia. Leon |
Post# 880967 , Reply# 13   5/16/2016 at 00:23 (2,873 days old) by ilovewindex (Tualitan OR)   |   | |
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Post# 880968 , Reply# 14   5/16/2016 at 00:23 (2,873 days old) by ilovewindex (Tualitan OR)   |   | |
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Post# 880969 , Reply# 15   5/16/2016 at 00:30 (2,873 days old) by ilovewindex (Tualitan OR)   |   | |
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Post# 880970 , Reply# 16   5/16/2016 at 00:32 (2,873 days old) by ilovewindex (Tualitan OR)   |   | |
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Post# 880979 , Reply# 17   5/16/2016 at 04:03 (2,873 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Post# 881114 , Reply# 19   5/17/2016 at 05:00 (2,872 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Post# 881160 , Reply# 20   5/17/2016 at 09:30 (2,872 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
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I have to admit CR lost me many years ago--probably about 1990. I was interested in audio equipment, and rather appalled by the way they seemed to think it was all the same. IIRC, they even bashed Sony ES (premium Sony line) because it didn't measure any better than the entry level Sony. Um...did anyone think about trying Sony ES under real world conditions? That is, actually using it in a living room to play a recording?
Although I still thumb through CR at the library sometimes... One other issue: times change. We now have the Internet. While I suppose there is something to be said, say, for CR's testing program of detergents, I personally find more value in real world experiences. Yes, there may be people who don't know what they are talking about. Also "your milage may vary." And all that. But when I read something credible (here, for example), about a laundry product, I take it seriously. |
Post# 881162 , Reply# 21   5/17/2016 at 09:40 (2,872 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Has dumbed down to the point of uselessness. They were always biased, case in point - GE Filterflo was the best cleaning washer available for pet owners and they blasted it off the market simply because they could. Once, though, they actually took their reading public seriously. Today? Worthless trash. There's more useful information to be found here than in the entire last 30 years of CR. |
Post# 881190 , Reply# 22   5/17/2016 at 12:40 (2,872 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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that SQ makes a washer with a built in heater in for the Chinese market. Then you had pointed out that they are 240 volts? I forget the voltage numbers here in the USA. I know regular outlets are 110V, then you have the range/oven which is 240 or 220? I can't remember, same with the dryer. No one would have to worry about wash times with built in heaters if we have the 220 or 240 V connection for our washers. I'm the same with my Duet's built in heater. I would get a new SQ in a nano second for my next washer if it had a built in heater. When the outside of the clothes washer gets as hot as a dishwasher, you KNOW those clothes are getting clean.
And there was a topic a while back where the discussion turned into heaters in washers will be a thing of the past and will eventually be phased out because of the energy usage and detergent technology and the push the get folks to use cold water. There were people in the discussion who believed this would be the case. |
Post# 881191 , Reply# 23   5/17/2016 at 12:41 (2,872 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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It's interesting there's only a difference of 3 minutes between "light" and "normal soil", but ten times that is added for "heavy". I'll have to see what the difference is on my machines.
Question: Do you think an 60-70 minute wash tumble would have more benefit than doing a pre-wash, then main (heavy) wash? If so, why?
Is detergent technology such that it can release soils and keep it suspended for that entire hour long wash time?
What about wear caused to the clothes by tumbling for that long (if that extended cycle is used regularly)?
Granted I rarely generate really dirty or stained clothes, but a 60-70 minute main wash just seems excessive to me.
To stay on topic, I haven't looked at CU for a few years now. I had a subscription a few years ago, but found, for the most part, I had little interest in the items they were reporting on.
I'd love to have a new SQ FL washer, but with the line up I have below, I can't exactly justify spending the $$$ for one.
Kevin
P.S on heaters... I now have 2 washers with built-in heaters, a Kenmore He5t and Maysung (Samtag?) Neptune 9700 (about 3 months now). But on average I only use the heater in the He5t a couple times a year. So far I've only used the heater in the Samtag once during it's first cycle to clean it. After continuous tumbling and heating for nearly an hour, I got bored, figuring that was long enough, cancelled the cycle and reset it to rinse & spin. FYI... just to bore you, this is my "daily driver" line up (L to R KM He5t, KM He3, Maysung 9700, LG WM1832).
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Post# 881217 , Reply# 24   5/17/2016 at 15:55 (2,872 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 881228 , Reply# 26   5/17/2016 at 17:03 (2,872 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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*Do not wash in dirty water*
For generations and still largely true today a pre-wash or soak then wash will give better results than one long wash cycle. Granted this is for mainly whites/colourfast loads that are badly soiled stained. Granted modern detergents are vastly improved over soap in many aspects on wash day. This is especially true of anti-soil redeposit properties; but still long wash cycles give dirt a chance to land back on fabrics. Of course the benefit of using a cold or cool pre-wash or soak before a main hot wash is the removal of certain soils (such as protein)that would be set/cooked into fabrics by the high temperature of main wash. Historically and perhaps even today commercial laundries had several changes of water. This often accounts for the "whiter than white" results of their laundry. |
Post# 881237 , Reply# 27   5/17/2016 at 18:22 (2,872 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
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Launderess's talk about prewash reminded me of something...
One point in favor of heaters is the claim that they can help stains that might be set by heat. Some with relevant experience say that slow heating of the water means the stain goes bye-bye before the temperature hits a point where it's hot enough to set the stain. But...more than once, while dreaming of Speed Queen, it seems to me that a prewash can fix the problem if one is faced with stains that might be set by heat, and a desire for hot water. A prewash to fix the stains up, and then a thorough wash. Of course, one uses more water this way... But in my case, most of what I need is just freshening. I don't have little kids generating mountains of "Oh @#$@#$! What did they do to this shirt!?!?" loads of laundry... Another reason I'd really like a heater for, however, is sanitizing of laundry. |
Post# 881246 , Reply# 28   5/17/2016 at 19:09 (2,872 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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When I had my Lady Shredmore, and even the Fridgemore without heater, I always did a cool/tepid prewash or presoak for badly stained whites/kitchen towels/napkins. Now, I simply wash in hot or Sanitize; select stain treat with steam and that heats the water from luke warm to 130 or 155 degrees, which ever I prefer. I even had very badly bloody stained pair of kakhis and all I did was do the same above, but only heat to warm. Detergent for these types of loads is always Tide He with Bleach Alternative. Even I was impressed with the slacks because they'd sat stained for over a week. Only once in the nearly 5 years I've had the Duet have I needed a prewash. |
Post# 881281 , Reply# 29   5/18/2016 at 04:54 (2,871 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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One long wash vs. prewash + wash: For me, it comes down to the amount and type of soil you're dealing with. If it's a load of muddy gardening clothes, then a prewash is certainly in order. For loads of heavily-stained kitchen whites, I've found a long profile wash (gradual heating of water from warm to very hot) works great. I use liquid chlorine bleach on those loads, so an extra rinse must be added.
My previous machine (a Frigidaire front-loader) had a prewash option, but it couldn't be used in conjunction with a profile wash (Sanitize cycle). Better results were had using the Sanitize cycle alone. The new washer, a Maytag 8100 has no prewash option, although one can select Rinse/Spin cycle in lieu of that.
Tumble washing in a front-loader is very gentle. I've had no problems with excessive wear to fabrics using a very long (60-70 minutes) wash. The top-loading impeller-based Frigidaire Immersion Care washer's 65-minute wash (using Stain Treat/heaviest soil level), on the other hand, was absolutely brutal to fabrics.
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Post# 881303 , Reply# 30   5/18/2016 at 09:01 (2,871 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Voltages in the US (as in Europe) are all over the map. The nominal US household current is 120/240 single/split φ . But we run at 127/254 in our end of Cheyenne. Nearby, a much larger city runs 130 regularly while the county in between runs at 117 (and, according to their spokesidiot, is going to stay there). Europe settled on a 400v 3φ system, with 230V for low amp. consumers, but with tolerances that can put it way below or way above (bigclive talks about that). This harmonization brought the 220V of mainland Europe and the 230 of the UK into line. Theoretically.
Many vintage European FL tumbled the clothes for well over 120 minutes between the pre-wash and the main wash before doing rinses and spins. They didn't wear the clothes out. The detergents were specifically made to keep soil in suspension for longer wash periods.
A wash cycle which goes from cold to 45 or 50 or 60 degrees (C) with a slow build up to 45 works very well with enzymes, including today's 'cold' wash enzymes (which still don't do shit in cold water - the reason cold water washing is useless).
Protein based stains 'set' quickly in warmer water, as Laundress has explained.
There's not a reason on earth the typical US 240V 30 Amp outlet couldn't be used for a heated washing machine using enough water to actually clean and we'd all be better off if they'd throw out the totally failed HE TL design.
Too little water, too cold of a temperature and you have dirty clothes and filthy mold, slime and microbe infested machines.
Oh, and speaking as a German for a minute, oxygen bleach can clean many stains we believe can only be removed using chlorine bleach in the US.
This post was last edited 05/18/2016 at 09:28 |