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Thread Number: 65525
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New! Speed Queen v. LG: nagging questions |
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| Post# 881302 , Reply# 4 5/18/2016 at 08:37 (2,893 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
After having my LG washer and dryer a year now, I will have to say that they are absolutely the best in washing and drying. I have the 3570's and they were rated quite well in Consumer Reports. I also have a Speed Queen top loader that I kicked to the curb, and I have not looked back. The SQ washer does well washing, but its a water hog, doesn't extract much water from the load, and oh yeah linting can be tad much. Its also not gentle on fabrics and they tend to wear out faster, in my experience,and the wash system is rather primitive. Not to mention the fact that the washer just loves to eat belts.
The LG's have been trouble free and very reliable as well. Rinsing has been superb with all loads. The final 2 minute spin spray in the final spin, and this is no slow spin either, high speed spin is used. This washer will amaze in the fact that with a good detergent, it will remove stains that you thought would never come out. I use the TurboWash feature for every load since I like to have the detergent recirculate and that every bit of it is used properly. The washer also extracts quite well and saves a tremendous amount of water compared to the SQ washer. I think you would be quite happy with them. I know I am. | ||
| Post# 881307 , Reply# 6 5/18/2016 at 09:32 (2,893 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio)) | ||
Mike | ||
| Post# 881309 , Reply# 8 5/18/2016 at 10:36 (2,893 days old) by mtn1584 (USA) | ||
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I've washed everything from Michael Kors Dress Shirts to expensive T-shirts in my Top Load SQ without any issues. I use slow agitation and spin speeds. Never ever an issue. Mike | ||
Post# 881310 , Reply# 9 5/18/2016 at 10:52 (2,893 days old) by henene4  (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Well, that is not the point. Any washer will be gentle if run on a gentle setting. But why should you wash everday clothing like T-Shirts on a gentle setting? What if I have something actually gentle? SQs are only 2-speed machines. There is nothing beyond gentle agitation. | ||
| Post# 881311 , Reply# 10 5/18/2016 at 10:57 (2,893 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio)) | ||
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Mike | ||
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Post# 881325 , Reply# 13 5/18/2016 at 13:43 (2,893 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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Just remember, that no matter what machine you read online reviews on, there are likely hundreds of happy users for every bad review. It is human nature to spend more time writing reviews when there is a grudge, then when a person is satisfied with something. The paralysis by analysis aided by the 'information' superhighway is a double edged sword.
I'd likely err towards the SQ myself even though I find their machines to be a bit crude. I'd never buy another top load machine so that decision is the easy one... Odds are that either LG or SQ you will be happy with what you buy. The SQ will probably be around longer though | ||
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Post# 881331 , Reply# 14 5/18/2016 at 14:11 (2,893 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I'm with Phil on this one: A front-loader is the way to go. Both LG and Speed Queen were on my short list back in August when I purchased a new laundry pair. Wound up going with Maytag Maxima 8100's and am very satisfied with them. They're built in the US and the parent company is American which is a bonus.
I had a top-load Speed Queen as a second washer and it was fun to use an old-school, traditional top-loader with a spin-drain...but a front-loader has been the daily driver in my laundry room since the mid-1980s. The SQ went to a family who really wanted to stick with a traditional top-loader. I think HE front-loaders excel in many areas: Cleaning, spinning, capacity, water and energy efficiency. | ||
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Post# 881334 , Reply# 15 5/18/2016 at 14:24 (2,893 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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I have owned and used an LG WM3170CW and matching electric dryer for a yr now. I have been very happy with these machines. but there was a learning curve. The new FL washers are very different from the FL's of 10 + yrs. ago. The capacity of the newer FL's is larger, so if you wash smaller loads of heavy items there is more of a possibility of loads that don't want to balance and spin. Also, the new FL's use less water than they used 10+ yrs ago.
I have found that the Bulky cycle on my LG uses the most water. And because the max spin speed is limited to med. on the Bulky cycle there is never a problem with smaller loads that don't want to balance and spin readily. So I programmed my LG favorite cycle to the Bulky cycle. hot wash, normal soil level and Water Plus option. I get a fill up to the lip of the tub, every load comes out spotless and rinsed completely. I have never had any linting, tearing or unusual wear. On extra soiled white loads I add a pre wash option and I can't believe how clean even very soiled items come out. For example, we use old white tee shirts to dry the car after we wash it. These white shirts get filthy with black brake dust, which I've never before been successful in getting out . Not anymore, these wash up sparkling white. The only down side of the Bulky cycle is the med spin leaves the cloths more damp. To get around this I run a separate ex. high spin cycle at the end of the Bulky cycle to decrease the drying time. The matching dryer is the best I've ever used. There is one unusual quirk with the Normal Auto dry cycle. It automatically selects Energy Saving mode that reduces the temp. And you can't manually select high heat on the normal cycle. But there is a way around this that isn't explained in the owners manual. Just select the Anti-Bacterial option and voila you get high heat on the normal auto dry cycle for faster drying. I've also programmed this as my favorite dry cycle. Most loads are dry in about 35 mins., or less. And there is never any linting. The large capacity of these machines allows me to launder kingsize comforters and bedspreads, blankets and pillows with out needing to go to the laudromat. I like that there is an easliy accessable clean out for the pump filter. I make sure to dry off the inside of the door and the tub gasket after every load, have never had a problem with mold or a sour smell. And after a yr of an average of 5 loads a week there have been no problems with either the washer or the dryer. No unusal sounds, no rough seams in the tub, no polishing compound to clean out of the tub, no chewed up drive belts, no leaking, just dependable service. I did need to install water hammer arrestors on the inlet valves because our water pressure is high, but this was easily done and only cost an extra $20.00. I too prefer to buy American made products when possible. I couldn't justify the almost $2,000.00 for a SQ FL, and I needed a FL because of our extreme drought here in California. I did buy the set from my local Lowes, so those $ did help provide employment for persons in my community. All in all I would have to say that I have been happy with my choice to buy this LG set. Our power bill has decreased by about $8.00 to $10.00 a month due to less hot water usage and shorter dry times. whichis an added bonus. Eddie | ||
| Post# 881343 , Reply# 16 5/18/2016 at 15:26 (2,893 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
It seems to me that "green" detergents SHOULD work just fine in a front load machine, as long as it's a HE detergent, of course. No experience with front load machines, but it is not lost on me that the same people in favor of green detergents (both users and the companies that make the products) are also often very much in favor of front load machines. Thus it seems likely the detergents will work just fine.
As for powder detergent, there are those who argue it's a better choice. But there are people here who appear to seem to use nothing but liquids, although they more likely use Tide and the like. A front load machine with a heater might help a green detergent work better on difficult loads. | ||
| Post# 881373 , Reply# 17 5/18/2016 at 19:46 (2,893 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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Well........ +1 to mtn1584 -1 to henne4. Again. Search my vids on youtube. You can see regular and gentle agitation in action. I too prefer to buy US made whenever possible and practical. Hi Frig! | ||
| Post# 881410 , Reply# 20 5/19/2016 at 04:58 (2,892 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio)) | ||
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I thought | ||
| Post# 881414 , Reply# 21 5/19/2016 at 06:22 (2,892 days old) by brucelucenta () | ||
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LOL | ||
| Post# 881427 , Reply# 23 5/19/2016 at 09:35 (2,892 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK) | ||
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Post# 881428 , Reply# 24 5/19/2016 at 09:37 (2,892 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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I have a family member who suffers from multiple allergies and hay fever. My washer does not maintain 140 degrees over 30 minutes, however, my dryer does. We are managing just fine. | ||
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Post# 881429 , Reply# 25 5/19/2016 at 09:40 (2,892 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Allergies is not asthma. I have a hard time with my allergies, but asthma is like another level. If you ever saw somebody having an asthma attack, you know why you are carefull with such stuff. And again, no bad word about SQ, just that it is not the best option in this situation. | ||
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Post# 881431 , Reply# 26 5/19/2016 at 09:51 (2,892 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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It's also not the worst option and it works just fine. Ask yourself how did people manage in the past without allergen cycles? | ||
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Post# 881433 , Reply# 27 5/19/2016 at 10:00 (2,892 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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How do people manage with their constantly broken washers? Aka how do the live without SQ? They do. Thing is: Allergies are growing more and more common. Thus asthma has become a bigger problem. And, fun fact, over here, every washer ever had a cycle the acts as an Allergene cycle: A boilwash. And you're right, it is not the worst option. But, in this case, slightly worse. | ||
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Post# 881451 , Reply# 29 5/19/2016 at 12:57 (2,892 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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LG vs SQ Front Loaders. 
The German consumer magazin performs reliability tests when testing washing machines. That means 3 models of each type of washer tested have to go through a certain number of cycles (with laundry) to simulate a typical life span. So if 2 of 3 washers break down, explode or whatever in a narrow time frame, it`s certainly no coicidence, these washers are c**p.
While we don`t have SQ on the market and the LG models differ from the ones sold in the States I think to recall that LG frequently had problems in the reliability test. The SQ FL might be built like a tank and will probably work for a long time but it lacks an internal heater. The small amount of hot water used in a modern FL just isn`t enough to provide a real hot wash. Cold clothes, a huge solid stainless steel drum, the door glass and so on consume most of the heat immediately so you end up with a very warm wash at best. Not so good if allergies are of concern. The SQ FL can be programmed to a whooping numer of 5 rinses, but it lacks any kind of suds lock control. So again I would be leery about the SQ if I suffered from allergies. I think to recall Samsung has been much more reliable than LG if you consider a Korean washer. On a side note, while Europeans still talk about a boilwash the actual temperature dropped to about 90° C - 194° F or even less since FLs have moved to plastic detergent drawers, because the excessive steam would deform most plastics. That was long before the energy crisis. The term boilwash is still valid and alive. That temperature is still more than hot enough to kill e.coli typically found in skidmarks, dustmites and so on without the need for bleaching agents and it`s still safe for a lot of modern sturdy cotton and poyester fabrics. Even lycra in white sport socks can take it to some extent. Of course you have a lot more wear and tear compared to cold water and low quality items might bleed or shrink, but from personal experience and a learning curve I can tell most care tags today are underlabeled. | ||
| Post# 881454 , Reply# 30 5/19/2016 at 13:21 (2,892 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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Honestly I am not surprised by the ones that hold the SQ flag up high and how dare anyone criticize it. Its always the same ones that clutch the pearls and gasp in shock. I have to say that I do love to beat the hornets nest from time to time, its just too much fun! That said, its my opinion, my experience with my one speed wonder of a washer that happens to be a SQ top loader. And for your info, the Delicates cycle on the SQ washer is much like the Maytag Fabric Matic, where it will agitate briefly, then soak, the agitate again. One doesn't need 2 speeds with that set up. Plus I don't have "delicate" things in my wardrobe.
So, sure my LG washer won't last 10 to 20 years like maybe an SQ washer. That issue doesn't bother me at all. When it dies, I will get another and recycle the old washer. I am enjoying the lower water/sewage bills, lower electric bill and gas bill. When my water bill dropped by close to $100 a quarter and the power bill dropped from $60 a month down to $28, that makes me happy. Not everyone wants to have frottage with their SQ washer, I know I don't. | ||
| Post# 881493 , Reply# 32 5/19/2016 at 19:50 (2,892 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio)) | ||
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o come on nmassman44
heres my energy guide @ 6 loads a week,thats for my couple month old TL SQ, my electric bill has gone down since I got rid of those ENERGY STAR POS DUETS !oh & I have a well and it takes power for the pump too.
View Full Size
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| Post# 881501 , Reply# 33 5/19/2016 at 20:16 (2,892 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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In my case I have a SQ AWN311 that we bought in 2009. So my EnergyGuide is a tad higher in cost. The new SQ top loaders may use less, but the cycle that was used to get that is the Normal Eco cycle where there is a spray rinse and quite possibly dumbed down wash water temps. My electric bill reflects the dryer usage and the fact that the LG washer extracts much more water from the load compared to the SQ washer, thus the dryer runs less and dries faster.
Nice try though. | ||
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Post# 881502 , Reply# 34 5/19/2016 at 20:18 (2,892 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 881536 , Reply# 39 5/20/2016 at 06:06 (2,891 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
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Post# 881537 , Reply# 40 5/20/2016 at 06:08 (2,891 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
| Post# 881598 , Reply# 45 5/20/2016 at 20:21 (2,891 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio)) | ||
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THANKS | ||
| Post# 881605 , Reply# 47 5/20/2016 at 22:35 (2,891 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
Every time I see a "SQ" post I roll my eyes and question why I even look through the thread at all. Nothing but stubbornness and refusal to accept that there are several manufacturers that produce great machines, and yes, that means that choosing other than Speed Queen can, in many ways, be the better option. No one is saying that someone can't have their preference with the brand, they're simply stating facts that show the pros and cons of using it. Water and energy use can't really be debated between a SQ top loader and a front loader, so I don't really understand the blatant ignorance and name calling that resides around the subject.
I myself wish the particular topic would stay over on the Imperial side in regards to its top load varieties, because the design hasn't changed in such a long time, and on top of that, it's always the anti-HE/modern washers/progress bandwagon that dominates any chance of a respectful and logical conversation about the subject. But that's just my honest opinion. | ||
| Post# 881624 , Reply# 50 5/21/2016 at 03:37 (2,890 days old) by Sbond22 (Grove City, Fl. USA) | ||
Reply #1 by henene4 | ||
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Post# 881636 , Reply# 52 5/21/2016 at 08:02 (2,890 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I'm not Anti-Modern, nor am I anti-progress. I've never yet read a single post from any vintage machine lover denigrating the progress made on enzymes. Just the opposite. HE TL are not 'progress' they are a failed attempt to produce a washer US consumers will 'accept' which uses very little energy and water. And they are absolutely trash. They don't clean as well as even the least expensive reversing FL on the market. Not even close. They're poorly made, using logic in a failed attempt to compensate for bad engineering and take far too long to do their work. It's not anti-modern, anti-progress to point out reality: Buy vintage or buy a modern FL.
Sheesh.
As to SQ and their pricing - well, gosh. They're the only TL manufacturer offering anything decent on the market and they do let you turn the HE shit off. Why shouldn't they sell their premium product at a profit?
None of this HE nonsense would be necessary if American consumers were willing to accept that other parts of the world have done an enormously better job of washing well with less water using logic controlled, well built FLs.
Our Thumper (and she's PANK!) is 58. Still washes perfectly. We've got two Maytag wringer washers from the early 1950's, ditto. Westy Slant Front dryer from the early fifties which, thanks to Greg, still drys with a vengance. Hell yes I expect my laundry appliances to last for decades. Anything else is poor design, bad engineering and the sort of arrogance which took Cadillac from Standard of the World to pregnant hippopotamuses on wheels. | ||
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Post# 881642 , Reply# 54 5/21/2016 at 08:51 (2,890 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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yes, | ||
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Post# 881696 , Reply# 60 5/21/2016 at 20:49 (2,890 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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You are right Henrick and everything you state here is clearly based on lots of personal and direct experiences. Thank you for your insightful elucidations. | ||
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Post# 881701 , Reply# 61 5/21/2016 at 21:46 (2,890 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Wear and tear I washed my jeans for nearly five years in a 1960's Miele in Germany and they lasted with no noticeable wear to the end. I've washed my jeans in a '58 Thumper (in Pank!) for six years now and they show no noticeable wear. Vectors aside, this whole discussion is pointless. Good clothing wears just as well in a vintage TL (except a Shredmore) as in a FL. | ||
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Post# 881720 , Reply# 62 5/22/2016 at 07:09 (2,889 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA) |
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Lint While ferreting out cheap clothes a TL probably can't help breaking some small fibers in good clothes. That would explain the observation that clothes washed in an FL leave less lint on the dryer screen. | ||
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Post# 881731 , Reply# 63 5/22/2016 at 09:40 (2,889 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I don't doubt There is some minimal distinction. Just, it's too small to matter. That there's a distinction to be made is clear - Frigidaire made it in their ads for Thumpers! decades ago.
The real question we need to ask is this: Why do Americans put up with HE TL shit when there are two really good options out there? Option A: Stop pretending that water used for home laundry is hard to recycle. It's not. Option B: The least expensive European FL with on-board heating can wash rings around any TOL FL HE piece of shit sold in the US. Buy one.
The whole TL HE nonsense is an attempt to square a circle. It can't be done. The only way to get clothes really clean (and gently) with little water, energy and minimal use of non-biodegradable chemicals is in a FL or a TL with solid-tub.
American consumers need to accept this or stop bitching about dirty clothes which don't come clean. | ||
| Post# 881732 , Reply# 64 5/22/2016 at 10:00 (2,889 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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Say yes to America, Canada, and yes to Speed Queen! Union owned! Yes, by a Montreal teachers union! Union Yes! Keep high standard incomes and living alive in the great US of A, and Canada! | ||
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Post# 881738 , Reply# 65 5/22/2016 at 10:54 (2,889 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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It's indeed amazing how the American consumer gets those HE toploaders pushed down the throat while there are really good alternatives. I'm still flabbergasted that Whirlpool never brought an H-axis toploader on the market, while they have a patent for that design. Frontloader performance and toploader convenience.
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Post# 881739 , Reply# 66 5/22/2016 at 11:12 (2,889 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I always assumed that's why Whirlpool bought Bauknecht - so they could have the outstanding Philips H-Axis system for a Top Loader. Part of the problem is that America is technologically so far behind the rest of the western world on so much it's scary. Part of the problem is a rah-rah 'patriotism' in the US which makes it hard to introduce better technologies. Part of the problem is one which is even worse in Germany - the anti-phosphate bullshit. | ||
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Post# 881742 , Reply# 67 5/22/2016 at 11:56 (2,889 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 881743 , Reply# 68 5/22/2016 at 12:23 (2,889 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Louis, | ||
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Post# 881747 , Reply# 69 5/22/2016 at 13:02 (2,889 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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A pity indeed. Whirlpool's patent for the American market was filed in 1994, so I guess it's no longer valid. Other manufacturers could jump on that hole in the market now. There is ofcourse a Staber, but that is a bit of an awkward machine and there have been too many problems with them. It would help if a major brand would bring an H-axis toploader on the market.
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Post# 881748 , Reply# 70 5/22/2016 at 14:05 (2,889 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA) |
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Can you get a comforter into an H-axis toploader? | ||
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Post# 881751 , Reply# 71 5/22/2016 at 15:06 (2,889 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Comforter | ||
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Post# 881752 , Reply# 72 5/22/2016 at 15:12 (2,889 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA) |
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I was thinking it might be hard to get a comforter into the opening. | ||
| Post# 881753 , Reply# 73 5/22/2016 at 15:19 (2,889 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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Panthera, your list above (e.g., rah rah patriotism) seems quite reasonable.
Add to it a couple of other factors: -American mentality that has increasingly become about buy the cheapest thing possible. -Many American manufacturers apparently often don't want to release good products (either by considering new technology or plain old build quality) because its so much more profitable to make a piece of junk. (Detroit auto industry of years back being an excellent example of this.) | ||
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Post# 881754 , Reply# 74 5/22/2016 at 15:22 (2,889 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The Staber has a rather small opening indeed. In comparison European toploaders have a relative big opening in regard to the capacity. Here are a few pictures of an AEG toploader.
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Post# 881799 , Reply# 75 5/23/2016 at 10:34 (2,888 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Staber buys in Quite a lot of their parts. This is an added layer of expense (FSP parts cost so much it's frequently much cheaper to buy a new machine) so I imagine some of their systems are compromises. Pity - the only one I've ever actually seen in person was a bit older but looked good. Does anyone know with which model they switched to one bearing for the drum? Even Miele, who pioneered laser controlled bearing placement eventually gave up on the two-bearing H-Axis system. I suspect this was a big source of wear and tear on earlier Stabors. | ||
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Post# 881811 , Reply# 76 5/23/2016 at 13:05 (2,888 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Miele has indeed changed to the bearings on one side with their toploaders. But all other manufacturers (as far as I know them) have been using bearings on both sides. I have had several toploaders and have never had a bearings problem with them. AFAIK there are not excessive problems with toploaders with bearings on both sides.
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Post# 881836 , Reply# 77 5/23/2016 at 18:22 (2,888 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney) |
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Euro top loaders are usually compact and designed to fit in tight spaces and be portable. Have they increased in capacity from the standard 4.5 to 5 kilos, to match larger front loaders? | ||
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Post# 881889 , Reply# 78 5/24/2016 at 01:55 (2,888 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Current Euro top loaders are rated up to 7 kg. They haven`t changed in size, they still fit into tight spaces, so I have my doubts about increased drum volumes. Guess most of the larger ratings are only accomplished by overloading coupled with endless wash times.
On Euro top loaders at least the older ones I know of, you could not leave the door ajar, which made them even more prone to stink and mold than any FL. I wonder if that has changed by now ? | ||
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Post# 881899 , Reply# 80 5/24/2016 at 05:30 (2,887 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The Brandt H-axis toploader was imported by Kleenmaid and was sold under that name too. It was rather expensive indeed, but overhere Brandt sells for an average price. Not only do they have toploader washing machines, but also washer/dryer combos. The washing machines are 40cm wide, the combo's 45cm.
All H-axis toploaders can be left open (with the lid up) to dry out, I never have seen one that needed to be closed after use. Not all of them have the possibility to be left ajar, but with a bit of imagination there are ways to do it. My AEG 220 can be left ajar when you leave the inner drum lids open, the outer lid can't be closed then. Same with my Philips, but that one had an second lid. If you left the inner lid open, you can't close both the other lids. This is to protect the machine from being operated when it's not closed properly. | ||
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Post# 881962 , Reply# 82 5/24/2016 at 16:12 (2,887 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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A few thoughts
Americans by and large have not liked H-Axis washers for domestic use. They didn't when Philco, Bendix, Westinghouse, Maytag, and several others made them and that opinion largely did not change over the years. American housewives made the move from wringer washers to top loaders that that largely was that.
American housewives largely have clung to doing laundry the way it has for ages; one day a week (or weeks or months)a "big wash" is done where all laundry is completed. For this you obviously need washers not only with large to great capacity but speedy cycles. Being a nation blessed with abundant natural resources for the most part unless clean and clear water was in short supply using vast amounts of it didn't bother most persons. This included heating it in central boilers/heaters for use in those aforementioned quick cycle washing machines. Maytag not only hastened their own demise by the disastrous introduction of Neptune washers, but that fiasco along with a few other ill timed washers being release turned legions off the idea of front loaders. American housewives and others simply were not told the truth about front loading washers; namely cycle times are longer (in exchange for more gentle treatment of washing), capacity is often smaller, the machine must be kept open when not in use to prevent mould/smells and so forth. Things went on in that H-axis washers require firm and stable flooring. The more you increase capacity and size of unit this becomes more true; it just is a simple matter of physics. This came as Americans were moving their laundries out of basements and onto ground and first floors if not above. Another shoe that had to drop was that unlike many parts of the world power supply to many American homes does not always have the 208v-240v routinely normal for Europe. With self heating either off the table and or having to take longer due to decreased voltage cycle times either had to increase or performance suffered. Americas love of chlorine bleach on laundry day is another problem. The stuff is corrosive With heavy and improper use likely to shorten a front loaders life span. Commercial/Laundromat machines are built to a different standard and more importantly can be repaired if not entirely rebuilt often onsite. Thus any damage to seals, bearings or whatever can be either avoided, delayed and then finally corrected. The maturity of top load design meant such washers were relatively inexpensive even for TOL models. H-axis washers by nature of design cost more which was something else Americans were not prepared to put up with. Smelly washing machines? You'll notice those complaints started coming when liquid detergents largely replaced powders. That in addition to the push for more low to cold water washing. Previously when at least one load was done per week in hot to boiling water using a oxygen bleach containing powdered detergent that was enough. So now consumers are expected to run a machine empty on a "clean" cycle which basically is nothing more than a version of a boil wash in order to keep it clean. Where is the energy savings in that? | ||
| Post# 881988 , Reply# 83 5/24/2016 at 17:28 (2,887 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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Where is the energy savings in that?
Well, there would be energy savings for those washers with a Clean cycle if one did all actual laundry in tap cold water!
But yes, the logic here does make me wonder. Part of it is that I'd cringe at the thought of routinely running a washer empty just to clean it. Even if I KNEW in that particular case it would actually come out ahead in energy savings. It seems more reasonable to just regularly wash in warmer water. Thus the machine should stay cleaner, and one's laundry benefits. To be fair, however, the washer makers have to create something for a wide market, including "I'll stuff it until nothing can move, then add two more shirts, and hit 'Cold Wash'" users. Miracles can't happen with performance in cold water, but if the washer does start really reeking, well, people are likely to notice, and not like it... Thus the Clean cycle presumably fixes that reeking washer problem, and even may help make that cold water abusers laundry come out a bit better, since the machine will be kept cleaner than would be the case otherwise. | ||
| Post# 881992 , Reply# 85 5/24/2016 at 17:56 (2,887 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK) | ||
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.
The idea that FL machines are smell prone is a powerful meme in this country. Just yesterday I was talking to an old friend on the phone he mentioned having bought a new GE laundry pair for $500 total. I said, "I don't have to ask if that is a FL washer cause I already know." He answered, "ya those are expensive and smell bad." Anecdotal yes, but this is from my 'clean freak' friend, and so says to me there is a lot of PR that needs to happen for FL machines to dominate the US landscape as TLers have since forever. | ||
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Post# 881993 , Reply# 86 5/24/2016 at 17:57 (2,887 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Cleaning dryer's cabinet
When my repairman was here once working on the WP portable asked him about cleaning out the cabinet of the matching dryer. He said it wasn't necessary and to leave things as they were.
OTOH have seen members doing just his and found all sorts of lint and God only knows what else. That being said if one understands correctly long as a dryer is properly designed and vented there shouldn't be any lint inside the cabinet. What is see is the dust and fluff that gets sucked in during operation. | ||
| Post# 882004 , Reply# 88 5/24/2016 at 20:27 (2,887 days old) by glomain (tuscarawas cnty. (eastern ohio)) | ||
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washman | ||
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Post# 882019 , Reply# 89 5/24/2016 at 22:31 (2,887 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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washman, While I disagree with you on global warming - it's an established fact - there's quite a bit of truth in what you're saying. I remember being lectured (endlessly) back home in Germany on my immoderate use of water and energy and (heavens above!) stainless steel for having a dishwasher and tumble-dryer. The horror of it. And every single one of those who lectured me smoked like freight trains. I'm the only person on the left politically whom I knew in the 1980s and early '90s who did not smoke. Americans need to man up, grow a pair of balls and make a choice: Either good FLs or good Tls, but all this cold water, non-phosphate detergent washing is worthless. It doesn't work. At.All. Sadly, as the 'fabric softener' cycles show, HE TLs COULD actually be made to clean by simply reprogramming their microprocessor. Somebody should make an effort to figure out how to do it, how to make 'hot' really 'hot' again, high water levels and an end to the stupid, never works anyway, load sensing. First thing we did in our over 100 year old house was to get rid of the 6liter toilets and put the real ones back in. Just how the hell does a toilet save water when you have to flush it three times? Answer: It doesn't. | ||
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Post# 882031 , Reply# 91 5/25/2016 at 00:53 (2,887 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Impeller top loading washing machines | ||
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Post# 882070 , Reply# 92 5/25/2016 at 08:21 (2,886 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Laundress, You're right about the wash plate systems. I've seen them work fairly well in compact models, but those used lots of water and good design, two things the HE TLs are totally missing.
Toilets: Same topic, really. I know some of the newest models (including one of the cheapest on the market, a Homeless Despot brand) have top ratings. Great. It's 2016. How long did we have to put up with the awful ones? Even when they cost a fortune? You do not always get what you pay for, not when everything on the market is worthless shit.
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Post# 882077 , Reply# 93 5/25/2016 at 09:29 (2,886 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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I have only limited experience with those new extremly water stingy toilets in the States, but I really cannot understand the complaints about increased water use if one has to flush twice under certain conditions.
I mean how often a day do people usually wipe their butts vs how often it`s just # 1 to flush? I suppose at the end of the day the water bill is still considerably lower with a modern toilet even if one has to flush twice or even more on certain occations. | ||
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Post# 882083 , Reply# 95 5/25/2016 at 10:03 (2,886 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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So you call enviromentalists communists? | ||
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Post# 882098 , Reply# 96 5/25/2016 at 11:33 (2,886 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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In advance of possibly aquiring a wringer washer
Have been doing the off loads of linens using tubs and a mangle, and have to say there is something to using lots of water for washing.
My whites certainly looked a bit brighter and things smelled fresher. Am thinking it is because one is lifting laundry out of water rather than allowing it to drain through. That and used enough water to make a tree hugger sit down and weep. *LOL* Did discover all the laundry products one has had problems with over sudsing and or rinsing did fine via the tub method. Even (vintage)Biz presented no problems. Know this because after mangling put things through the spin dryer to get out the rest of water. What came out was clear..... | ||
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Post# 882102 , Reply# 97 5/25/2016 at 13:01 (2,886 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Environmentalists are not communists, But I sat through too many idiot lectures back home in Munich from 'Greens' who drove 180 on the Autobahn, ate meat and smoked cigarettes about how my dishwasher and tumble-dryer were 'destroying' the planet earth to have any patience with the holier than that bullshit of too many environmentalists. Especially the German greens who stabbed gay men in the back all through the '80s and '90s, courting our votes but never doing SHIT to advance our cause. There's a reason I stuck in out in the SPD all those years.
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| Post# 882131 , Reply# 98 5/25/2016 at 16:09 (2,886 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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>Am thinking it is because one is lifting laundry out of water rather than allowing it to drain through.
I'm not an expert, but I have to think lifting laundry out would work better... As much as I like the old BD Kenmores, one thing that gets me about that design is the neutral drain. It seems like you just spent 10 minutes removing all the crud from the clothes, just to potentially redeposit it on the clothes as the wash water drains through the clothes. Although I will admit in practice the best washer I've used the last 10 years was classic WP BD. Although that "best" is partly due to the nature of the competition. It probably doesn't take much to compete with a WCI Frigidaire. And both BD machines I used in the last 10 years at different times probably had good lint filtering, which probably helps. | ||
| Post# 882138 , Reply# 99 5/25/2016 at 16:25 (2,886 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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>My whites certainly looked a bit brighter and things smelled fresher.
The "smelled fresher" part raises one interesting thought... I have zero experience with front load machines, past what they have in the coin operated laundry. (And it's been a good while since I went to a coin operated laundry. Not quite my goal of "never again", but it's been a few years.) But...it seems like the arguments I mostly hear about modern front load washers (and also detergents used in cooler/cold water) talks mostly about stain removal. Understandable, because it does give a reference about something easily visible. But what about freshness? Interestingly, I recall one person here--I think it was Danemodsandy--who noted an increase in freshness going from WP DD to classic Maytag... More practically, it's more of an issue for me than stain removal. I don't have huge loads of terribly stained laundry these days. Most of what I need, in fact, is freshening. Indeed, I find myself doing what I'd never have thought possible 10 years ago: I'm using Tide somewhat regularly. Not because it fights stains, but because unscented Tide seems to get stuff fresher than unscented All. At least in my laundry room. | ||
| Post# 882326 , Reply# 102 5/27/2016 at 02:05 (2,885 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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Thanks, Olav!
Aldi is out--no locations in my area, although if I ever go someplace there is an Aldi I'll probably check it out, including the detergent aisle. Kirkland is possibility in my area. Years back, I heard of a local animal clinic that used some type of Kirkland (a powder is all I recall), and apparently did extremely well even on their nightmare loads. | ||
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Post# 882593 , Reply# 103 5/29/2016 at 04:13 (2,882 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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