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Thread Number: 6590
New Whirlpool Top Loader - UK- Info needed please |
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| Post# 133052 , Reply# 3 6/4/2006 at 06:27 (6,529 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK) | ||
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Mark - the US Whirlpool site has manuals for toploaders on there. Just click on any washer page,then click on the Guides & Literature tab. Hope this helps! Jon CLICK HERE TO GO TO lavamat_jon's LINK | ||
Post# 133063 , Reply# 4 6/4/2006 at 08:38 (6,528 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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Mark, I tried to find info on the UK site too and even looked at the freestanding range brochure. The heavy duty range doesn't have even detailed charts. I can guess though, with the type of control panel it is. The far left is the water level knob. Then in the center are soft pushbuttons--one side for the 5 wash/rinse temperature combinations and the other side the 4 wash/spin speed combinations--for a total of 9 buttons. Then of course, the right side has the timer dial. Probably similar to here. a 22 minute soak program, toward the end of that program is the 4 minute pre-wash program. They end up with a drain & spin. You then have to return to set the timer for the program you want. There's probably heav duty, permanent press/wrinkle free, and delicate/handwash/woolen. The automatic temperature control assures correct mix of hot & cold water on the warm setting to be about 95 to 104 degrees F over here. The col keeps temp from going below 65 or 75 degrees F here. Hot is directly what is supplied form you hot water tank/heater. On mine, if I have my heater set higher than 140 degrees, the accutemp regulates it at 140 degrees F. This is all guessing, but I'm pretty sure it's not too far off for any of this information.
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Post# 133221 , Reply# 8 6/5/2006 at 08:22 (6,527 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Post# 133302 , Reply# 10 6/5/2006 at 12:28 (6,527 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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the angle of a banana's 'bend' has to be within | ||
| Post# 133427 , Reply# 11 6/5/2006 at 16:32 (6,527 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 134865 , Reply# 12 6/10/2006 at 13:44 (6,522 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Hoovermatic, here is a link with the EU energyrating of a Whirlpool Toploader. Washperfomance G Energy Class G Drying Perfomance D Water Consumption 165 litres Just scroll down and see CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
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Post# 134875 , Reply# 13 6/10/2006 at 15:06 (6,522 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Is that the same
scale we use in Germany? I didn't know there even was a "G". Since "A" is the best, I assume "G" stands vor "G"-ottverdammt schlecht? Or "G"-odawful in English.... ???165 Litres of water??? Huh?? What I think about Whirlpool is no secret, but that is --- well, don't nobody never critize me for my opinion of that company 'gain after that! Or is this some sort of British scale which goes backwards to the rest of Europe? ???!!!??? | ||
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Post# 134877 , Reply# 14 6/10/2006 at 15:35 (6,522 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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It is exactly the same scale of course. I`m just a bit surprised about the fact, that a 630 rpm spin is not even rated that bad... CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
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Post# 134880 , Reply# 15 6/10/2006 at 16:09 (6,522 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Ok, now I believe it
Gah, Stefan - des koa i ned glauben...as my best friend here would say. Is it possible that this machine is so far away from the European norm that a realistic test is not possible? Or is it the result of the tremendous amount of water which would have to be heated for this beast...or... Never mind, just never mind. Anyone who buy this would have to think very seriously about what they were doing to the environment. You don't have to be a hysterical Green to realise that there is just no excuse for such wastefulness. | ||
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Post# 134891 , Reply# 16 6/10/2006 at 16:53 (6,522 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 134990 , Reply# 17 6/11/2006 at 03:32 (6,522 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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it would turn my stomach to know
I am still reeling from the water consumption. This explains why the power company and the water company in Colorado both were very happy to offer big sums of cash to anyone who bought a front loader the last few years. I knew there was a difference of 1:3 or 1:4 but this is the first time I really, intellectually (quiet in the cheap ranks!) understood it. This means a Unimatic running full blast with hot wash and warm rinse, overflowing its rinses like mad is still nearly three times as efficient as this, this, this... mir fehlen die Wörter. This is an atrocity and should be labeled with the "swine of the year" award. O, my paws and whiskers. And I bet Whirlpool isn't even the worst of the bunch... Just where do they think we are going to go when this planet is sick of us, to Venus? Oh, all things considered, maybe that's where we came from. (Don't call for the strait jacket folks, that was a joke. There was some speculation in the last decade that the Venusian atmosphere was similar to what global warming would do to ours...) | ||
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Post# 135090 , Reply# 19 6/11/2006 at 13:11 (6,521 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Wash performance rating of G. I wish more people in the US would realize just how much better a front loader is, but no we have some stubborn people who think water has to be everywhere. It just kills me, laughing hysterically, people on the other side of the pond are just clammeroring to have one of our washers--why, when the testing performance evidence is put right before them in black & white. Granted a top loader is good for some applications as well as a front loader is suprior in other applications. Peter, I haven't even used my max of 14 minutes wash in YEARS. I wouldn't have any tidy whites, tees, or socks left lol.
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| Post# 135091 , Reply# 20 6/11/2006 at 13:35 (6,521 days old) by agiflow () | ||
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All part of living in a democracy. Thank goodness we still have choices...as it always should be. | ||
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Post# 135260 , Reply# 23 6/12/2006 at 10:16 (6,520 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Water Consumtion
Let`s not forget the Whirlpool is rated 8 kg and most of us Europeans think in 5 kg dimensions. So, 165 l : 8 kg = 20,6 l per kg 20,6 l x 5 kg = 103 l ,so it only doubles the water compared with a frontloader The average new 5kg Frontloader uses about 50 l, and we all know an extrarinse is almost indespensable to get good results. Some of our older Frontloaders without intermediate spins even used up to 140 l. But as a big fan of high temperatures and low powerbills I`d rather stay away from it. | ||
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Post# 135569 , Reply# 28 6/14/2006 at 10:47 (6,518 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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hey furry Kevin-the-bear,
I don't deny that TLs can get stuff clean (though this one sure seems to have its problems...) it is just that it bothers me to think of the water and energy being wasted compared to the same amount of cleaning available in a more efficient TL or FL. Certainly I am not consistent - although I stopped driving cars over here in Europe in 1989, and try not to do too much damage to the environment - I freely admit that if I had the opportunity, I would run vintage washers all day. Part of what bothers me is simply the lack of interest in the rest of the whole planet which - forgive me - so many English and American folks have. You don't have to be a hysterical Green to know that we are in deep trouble and it is going to get much worse before it gets any better. | ||
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Post# 135625 , Reply# 30 6/14/2006 at 18:09 (6,518 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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I can see *way* more energy waste in the building where I work than my toploader will ever cause. Several toploaders taken together would be a different situation ... but then there are lots more wasteful buildings out there, too. I wouldn't mind having a frontloader, for pillows and overstuffed bedspreads and such, and just to see what they can do. | ||
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Post# 135635 , Reply# 31 6/14/2006 at 19:16 (6,518 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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It makes a hell lot of a sense to conserve water in areas where is plenty of water. The more the dirt, chemicals and whatever in waste water is diluted with clean water the more you keep the sewage treatment plants busy. None of them can remove all of the unwanted stuff, so there is still more than enough work for nature to cope with, before you can drink the water again and the cycle is closed. The point is that conserving water means better quality of clean water at the end, even if pollution entry stays at the same level. | ||
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Post# 136716 , Reply# 33 6/19/2006 at 15:11 (6,513 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Ok, if ... then
Dan, if'n it really-o truly-o has to be a top loader, then there are a few things to take into consideration. 1) The mechanical abrasion is so much greater than in a FL that you just can not wash clothes very long. A gentle wash cycle is ok for 15 minutes, otherwise you should not go beyond 10-12 max. 2) Since the water temperature can't rise gradually, as it should for enzymes to work best, you need to pre-soak really dirty stuff for at least 20, better 40 minutes in water around 105°F. 3) Despite their obscene waste of water, TL do a very poor job of rinsing when there is over-sudsing. It is much better to use low-suds detergent and soft water (softened if you have to) then to overdose detergent to make up for hard water. A second or "deep rinse" is a very good idea. 4) The spin speeds of TLs are very low. If you are going to be running your clothes through a tumbler, than either get a spinner running at 1800RPM or so or at least hang the clothes up to dry for a few hours first. 5) TL are much better at balancing than FLs are, but they still benefit a lot from being balanced. 6) Whereas most FL in Europe have at least some ruidmentary "aqua stop" or some such protection, TLs don't. Always turn off the water hoses when you are done washing. 7) Do not overload. A FL can still do an ok job slightly overloaded...a TL needs turnover to clean adequately. 8) Borax, Washing Soda and oxygen bleach make an even greater difference in cleaning efficiency in Tls than in Fls - that super short washing cycle needs all the help it can get. Pre-treat, pre-soak and stuff can still come out clean. Not as 9) The total wash times in a TL are so much shorter than in a FL you can wash more efficiently. But the old rule still applies: Hottest first, then cooler. Hope this helps - I am still convinced a TL is a mistake, but since you asked, what the hell, might as well make the best of it. | ||
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Post# 136717 , Reply# 34 6/19/2006 at 15:16 (6,513 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Glenn,
It is not a case of being a hysterical tree-hugger. It is something which, in your country once was held in high esteem: Waste not, want not. No, one TL will not kill dear mother earth. (I don't worry about her, red in tooth and claw she will solve the problem - us - soon enough). But why of why should we use double or triple the amount of water and chemicals and energy to achieve lower quality results than a modern Fl gives? Conservation is seen by many people in the US as being somehow a giving up of quality-of-life. Certainly it can be that way, but this is not such an issue. As for the ice melting, I believe even your country's scientist have finally acknowledged that this is not a good thing. What on earth did I do to push your buttons here? Why defend a wasteful lifestyle? Tell me, so I can apologize. | ||
| Post# 136718 , Reply# 35 6/19/2006 at 15:25 (6,513 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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And beware the sour towels! Was visiting over the weekend, and in the bathroom washing my hands, the towel had that tell-tale sour musty smell. I wandered about a bit and found the laundry room. My suspicions were confirmed - Kenmore. Why does it seem that all the non-laundry buff people I know who have WP/KM TL machines have sour towels?
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Post# 136736 , Reply# 37 6/19/2006 at 17:45 (6,513 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Interesting, I saw a post @ THS from someone claiming that a TL is not aggressive enough to clean clothes properly, that a FL is more aggressive/abrasive from the fabric slapping against the drum. The FL washer cleans via friction and the movement of the fibers rather than just swishing them around. Think of it like cleaning a bathroom fixture (sink,toilet,etc) and cleaning by filling the basin by just using a little bit of water and a scrub brush (FL washer) vs. filling the whole basin of water and sticking a food mixer in there to agitate the water (TL washer.) | ||
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Post# 136824 , Reply# 38 6/20/2006 at 03:23 (6,513 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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well nonsense
That is just plain silly. I have used both and there is no way on earth a FL comes even close to the mechanical action available in a (not overloaded) TL. With enough hot water, enough detergent, fast-acting enzymes, good oxygen bleach and not so full there is no turn-over, a TL can clean just as well as a FL - just faster. Faster, because of the increased mechanical action. The real question is whether the exhorbitant use of water, energy and chemicals is balanced by the savings in time. FLs clean better because they take longer, heat water more slowly (exactly what enzymes "want") and expose the clothes to higher concentrations of soil-releasing agents over a longer period of time. My mom's Unimatic used 1/3 the water of this Whirlpool thingamagummy and spun the clothes dry at nearly double the speed. They came out clean and sweet - and nearly dry. It ain't the TL/FL conflict, it is the rotten quality of the current traditional TLs... | ||
| Post# 136878 , Reply# 40 6/20/2006 at 12:13 (6,512 days old) by washboy2005 (UK) | ||
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Okay so maybe the whole top loader plan was a bad idea... Anyone reccomend the whirlpool duet (deamspaces in uk)?? | ||
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Post# 136918 , Reply# 41 6/20/2006 at 16:54 (6,512 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Daniel,
Stay away from European Whirlpool completely. Buy Miele, AEG, Electrolux - Better, restore an earlier UK machine. But modern Whirlpool and Bauknecht are just not worth the money. I have had very good performance out of my LG, but have heard nothing good about their service outside of Germany. Of course, if you have your heart set on a TL, then think of ways to maximise performance and minimise water use. I know folks in Colorado (serious water rationing) who reuse the wash water, (suds saver, but manually) going from the first very hot wash down to warm. Then the last rinse for the first rinse and so on. As someone pointed out a while back on another thread, if you only listen to your head, you won't be happy, either. (But at least your friends and neighbours over in green Germany will be rooting for you...) | ||
| Post# 137111 , Reply# 44 6/21/2006 at 15:11 (6,511 days old) by lavamat_jon (UK) | ||
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Well, in all honesty I find that I can still get washing on the line with all the loads I do by about 3pm; so I guess it really isn't an issue unless your washing line is in the shade for most of the day. Jon | ||
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Post# 137467 , Reply# 46 6/23/2006 at 07:57 (6,509 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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sunlight...scotland
Well, ok. I suppose my Scottish relations were hiding that with the circuit breakers the last time I was over. Seriously, some US dryers have higher temperatures than their euro-cousins. But this varies from brand to brand and model to model. Since I dry my silk shirts in my folk's US dryer back in the US regularly - and they have never been damaged yet - I don't think this need necessarily be a problem. The best thing to do is simply to get the info sheets and find out at what temperatures the clothes are dried. Whirlpools, by the way, run between 120-150°F and have "high" limiters at around 250-300°, but that is for emergency cuttoff. This is more or less the same as in European units. I am fascinated to hear of the wonderful Whirlpool quality, is that reality or just protest against my opinions...given the cost and hassle of repairs, I do hope you are right and I am wrong. Seriously, the only real difference between the two - apart from my personal impression that the US dryers dry with fewer wrinkles - is that the European units are frequently limited by the capacity of the condensing units...you can only remove so much moisture over a given span of time, so heating the air above a certain temperature will not improve drying times. | ||
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Post# 137522 , Reply# 48 6/23/2006 at 13:27 (6,509 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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can't argue that, Nathan,
the US Whirlpools are better than the European - but then, that is truly not saying very much. I guess I am just so spoiled by the quality of AEG, LG and Miele that I have no patience with stuff which, in the English speaking world - is seen as perfectly ok. Just a matter of focus, I guess. And, of course, lots of folks on this site (me included) loved the earlier machines (I might get snarky about the rollermatics, but I love the real GM products). I still have to remind myself anytime I see a new Frigidaire that it is not what I remember it as...and many here can't tell the differnce between my liking of vintage Whirlpool products and their current "white-goods". Yesterday I moderated an interesting seminar for top level managers on intercultural communication skills (big kudos here to Maytagbear for his research help) and one of the topics which a German marketing exec. raised (small fish, really - company just does a few billion Euro turnover annually) was the tremendous responsiveness the Chinese had shown to quality issues in the last two years. At this rate, his firm would soon be able to sell to all regions of the world, and not limit the Chinese finished goods to their US subsidiaries. That one kinda made me think... | ||
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Post# 138206 , Reply# 51 6/27/2006 at 03:22 (6,506 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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the majority of British people are environmentally concious
I guess it must just be my relations and friends in the British Isles, but do you really mean that? Or only relative to the Americans. Over here in Germany, we have the feeling that the UK will do anything they can to water down or hinder the implementation of environmentally friendly legislation. I am not trying to start another flame war here but am truly curious. Thanks Keven | ||
| Post# 138270 , Reply# 52 6/27/2006 at 13:06 (6,505 days old) by hoovermatic (UK) | ||
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UK will do anything they can to water down implementation of That's very interesting 'cos from what I am reading in the broadsheets, the boot is very much on the other foot. Amazing how perceptions are distorted in all aspects!! | ||
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Post# 138401 , Reply# 53 6/28/2006 at 04:34 (6,505 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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very true...
Sadly, this is so. There is a tendency in Germany, Italy, France, the BeNeLux and so on to see the UK as dragging their feet and being intentionally obstructionist. Partly, this is because of Margaret Thatcher. And partly because of the shameful way the German and UK governments actively worked to destroy the reputations of vets and scientists who warned against Mad Cow Disease. Nearly all European politicians are corrupt, greedy pigs whose only interest is in enriching themselves at the cost of the people whom they ostensibly serve. But the UK and Germany have been cursed with agricultural sectors which yield an unholy influence in Brussels even worse than most countries. Of course, now I suppose someone from the UK will write in that this is all wrong and BSE was just a myth... | ||
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Post# 138405 , Reply# 54 6/28/2006 at 06:18 (6,505 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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No, No, No
I will write from the UK and say "get off you soapbox" all of us here from the UK have a brain, from what I see in print, use it well....discussions are fine, you just seem to have loads of bags of potato chips on your shoulders, particlarly around UK stuff!!!! Chocolate pound cake in the Kenwood, and smoothies ready to go!!!! 
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Post# 138406 , Reply# 55 6/28/2006 at 06:38 (6,505 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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no actually not - just
Everytime I post anything remotely suggesting that some aspect of life in the UK not be quite at wonderful as the Board of Tourism implies it is I get back a billion bashing flaming e-mails...most suggesting, well, never mind. By all means make the smoothies, I'll stop by my aunt's little isle and see if'n she has any of the 20 year old single malt lying around and we can convince each other of our moral righteousness. | ||
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Post# 138485 , Reply# 57 6/28/2006 at 11:51 (6,504 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Paul,
You are right, of course. Guess my age is showing, or the fact that I just read her first autobiography a few weeks ago. I can not say I like the way she reduced the North of England to bitter poverty nor the way she dealt with the unions. At the same time, I would be hard put to come up with a better answer to the truly pressing problems which confronted her. | ||
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Post# 139165 , Reply# 59 7/1/2006 at 04:21 (6,502 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Drainage!!
Mark I`ve seen a device mentioned on here (cant find the thread) where you can link a large bore drain pipe into a small one, looks like a megga tall pipe with a vent and the washer pipe sits mid way as usual, allows the volume of water to run through but not overflow etc.... Guys can you point us to the thread or explain???? Mark I think you could certainly rig something up here as well!! Last year at the convention I used Scotts new Sears Kenmore TOL washer, five speeds , multi rinse etc, was really impressed, I`m not sure if the fast speed is the same as the Whirlpool here, if it is it may be a little to fast for everyday but the rollover was fab, have a look, Mike CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK | ||
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Post# 139206 , Reply# 60 7/1/2006 at 09:29 (6,501 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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if you really can't solve the problem
but still want a top-loader, there is a simple solution. Get a sink which has the same or greater capacity as the washer. Hook the sink to your drains (don't forget some sort of easily cleaned trap. Lint is lint is lint.) Hook the washer up to drain directly into the sink. Of course the sink will fill quite rapidly, but will also, itself, drain at the rate your system can tolerate. This way you can have your cake and eat it, too. | ||
| Post# 139686 , Reply# 61 7/3/2006 at 01:59 (6,500 days old) by hoovermatic (UK) | ||
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I solved the drainage problem with by draining the machine into an old Belfast/Butler style sink - worked a treat and I could put the plug in and save some of the rinse water for the garden when I needed to! | ||
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Post# 139867 , Reply# 62 7/3/2006 at 18:48 (6,499 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Paul, that is great | ||
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Post# 140437 , Reply# 64 7/5/2006 at 23:51 (6,497 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Thanks, | ||
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