Thread Number: 66087
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
HE top loaders |
[Down to Last] |
|
Post# 886704 , Reply# 1   6/24/2016 at 07:42 (2,834 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 886711 , Reply# 2   6/24/2016 at 08:27 (2,834 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I think the key is having enough water in the machines for washing comforters. I washed my queen size comforter in my Kenmore 28102 (Cabrio). It didn't move around very well but would have, if there was more water. This was in the Deep Wash cycle which worked fine for thinner blankets, however. I've seen videos of the LG machines washing comforters and they do a better job...but the tub fills almost completely with water. The impeller is usually powerful enough to at least move the comforter through the water well to get it clean. I mean my comforter came out fine, but it go sort of tangled.
Having a taller agitator would have helped keep the comforter moving better. It's too bad Whirlpool abandoned the Cabrio design with agitator. |
Post# 886736 , Reply# 5   6/24/2016 at 11:05 (2,834 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 886763 , Reply# 7   6/24/2016 at 12:57 (2,834 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
I'm not sure which videos you're watching, but I do know the majority of the users who have primarily been posting videos have been prime examples of how not to use the machine. They either load improperly by piling everything in the center or they use a totally inappropriate cycle, so the purpose behind their video is to troll about how "awful the machine is" when really they haven't bothered to even read the quick start sticker on the lid, much less even opened the manual.
My Bravos XL (Oasis-Cabrio) does a fantastic job with loads of all types, and never once has tangled or damaged anything over the course of 1.5 years. It excels with towels especially as far as rollover, but has no problem with a load of mixed garments filled to the top of the tub, in fact, it does better with full loads than it does with smaller ones, which means I wash far fewer loads per month, and the dryer runs less. The one drawback I will note is that while it has a Bulky cycle, it's not the most effective with our king sized comforters, and really isn't with any load in general. The funny thing is that it uses TOO MUCH water, and the agitation is too aggressive, so the comforter/quilt instead gets rolled into a ball that gets rolled and spun around in the water, and because there is no short stroke agitation, it's nearly impossible to spin because of the huge wad of dead weight at one side of the tub. HOWEVER, if I use the Sheets cycle, I get much better and more balanced results. This cycle begins by filling through the detergent dispenser rather than the fill flume, so the comforter is soaked from the bottom which prevents giant air bubbles that would otherwise form if saturated from the top. It still uses much more water than normal cycles, but the agitation is programmed to prevent tangling of sheets by alternating long and short strokes, which also works beautifully for large blankets and the like. So long as the comforter or large item is loaded as though there is an invisible agitator post in the middle, you'll never have problems with tangling. |
Post# 887113 , Reply# 11   6/27/2016 at 05:24 (2,832 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
Like for real, correctly, over a long time? There are sure some lesser designs out there, but we have a pretty well known user here who uses one as a daily driver, so if he approves of the design, I'd trust that... |
Post# 887117 , Reply# 13   6/27/2016 at 07:30 (2,832 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Well luckily it seems that regular agitator washers are coming back to "normalcy" with the options to fill them completely..even WP has put the old trusted dual action agitator back in a couple models. So the options are getting greater, while keeping with regulations. I prefer an agitator but after using an impeller model I can attest that they work just fine in most situations. It's really a matter of opinion whether or not they work.
|
Post# 887121 , Reply# 14   6/27/2016 at 08:10 (2,831 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Matt-- The Immersion Care (Frigidaire) allowed the choice of letting the machine or the user set the water level. I found letting the washer opt to the level it wanted to for sheets worked best. Using more water, as one would intuitively do with a traditional top-loader, hinders rather than enhances the wash action.
While I have no burning desire to own an impeller-based top-loader, manufacturers have improved and refined them since they were first introduced. The Immersion Care, typical of Frigidaire the past few years, is far behind the curve. There is no real spin between the wash and first rinse, making the use of chlorine bleach nearly impossible, and the rinses are not as effective as those in today's Whirlpool/Maytags, LG's and Samsung's. Although it kept the maximum spin speed down around 850 rpm, I was glad Frigidaire kept the excellent suspension system from their traditional front-loaders. They could spin a wildly unbalanced load like no other machine. Unfortunately, that is about the only positive thing that can be said about them, LOL. |
Post# 887140 , Reply# 15   6/27/2016 at 10:04 (2,831 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
then drawbacks. one step forward, two backward. |
Post# 887178 , Reply# 16   6/27/2016 at 15:21 (2,831 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
6    
Evidently, despite the bright, crisp, and damage free look of all my clothing, I'm apparently walking around in filth and despair, as is the conclusion I must come to because people who have never used or owned one of these machines tell me so. You guys must be taking some hefty vitamins to be able to telepathically see my filthy wardrobe without having ever set eyes upon me or my laundry. ;)
|
Post# 887180 , Reply# 17   6/27/2016 at 15:48 (2,831 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
How can you dare to claim any knowledge? I mean, it's not like you got video proof of the effective wash action, or such... Like, not at all... Wait a second... |
Post# 887181 , Reply# 18   6/27/2016 at 15:59 (2,831 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
6    
|
Post# 887195 , Reply# 19   6/27/2016 at 17:12 (2,831 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
I do like the Fisher&Paykels and the older Whirlpools like Andres has: both have taller impellers that seem to move clothes, towels, sheets etc. around just fine - save for comforters, which seem to be a challenge to most/all impeller washers.
The newer Whirlpools with the very flat impellers: I've seen so-so videos of them... The SamLsunG units that have impellers that are basically integrated into the base of the tub seem to require the load to be submerged in water (water savings?!) for rollover to take place. |
Post# 887207 , Reply# 20   6/27/2016 at 19:06 (2,831 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
Correction: I am glad Frigidaire kept the excellent suspension system from their traditional TOP-loaders for the Immersion Care models. Sorry for the confusion.
Andrew--- I know you are very particular about laundry so I completely trust you're getting great results from your HE top-loader. You've adopted the correct procedures to maximize performance. The only thing HE machines have in common with traditional washers is that they load from the top. |
Post# 887222 , Reply# 21   6/27/2016 at 21:32 (2,831 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
I think roughly 1/3 of our customers have HE top load washers one third have traditional top load washers and another third have a front loading washer. We get a lot of complaints about all three types and actually probably the most complaints about the front loading washers due to issues of smell etc.
Personally if I could only have one type I would have a front loading washer and do have front loading washers that I like, they are superior for washing large items coats and blankets etc. And a lot has to do with any machine is learning to work with it and use it properly and a lot of people don't use their front loading washers properly or their HE top loading washers for that matter.
It is interesting that even the very critical Consumer Reports does not have a strong preference for front loaders versus HE top loaders, so I really would conclude that both types of machines are highly satisfactory for users.
Last Thursday our delivery guys picked up a lovely LG front loading washer that was only 4 1/2 years old and the guy just hated it and bought a SQ top loading washer from us, In his house the washer was a long ways from the water heater and he said he was sick and tired of not being able to get a hot wash and tired of the smell from the LG washer. |
Post# 887275 , Reply# 24   6/28/2016 at 07:11 (2,831 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
The F&P is a great machine! Probably the best out there in terms of handling the items. Until WP changed the new Cabrio designs I would have gone to them too but honestly now I'd either get the F&P or the LG top loader. The LG does a really good job actually, especially when the TurboWash kicks in lol I don't know enough about the GE's to make an informed decision about them. It does appear though that the recirculating spray stays on most of the wash cycle, which would be a selling point for me. They are based on the F&P SmartDrive design too I believe.
|
Post# 887291 , Reply# 25   6/28/2016 at 08:20 (2,830 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
A front-loader has been the daily driver since 1987 and I've never once had a problem with mildew/smells/mold/gunk. I didn't even leave the door ajar 'til 1996. I do, however, wash in hot water several times a week, usually with some liquid chlorine bleach.
The class action lawsuit against Whirlpool was for a design defect that apparently allowed mildew and mold to develop in unseen areas. That has been rectified in newer models, from what I've read. The Maytag doesn't prompt one to run the Clean Washer cycle as did the 2010 Frigidaire. I've used the Clean Washer cycle only twice in the year I've had it. No problems, so far. I leave the dispenser open a bit as well as the door. Maybe I'm just lucky. |
Post# 887714 , Reply# 26   7/1/2016 at 15:58 (2,827 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
from WP, saying that all FL washers manufactured from 2001 to I can't remember the exact dates, but my Duet fell within those years, and it was some sort of recall. My machine is on it's 12th year and not a single hint of a smell. I absolutely love my machine. I also trust that (even though I have never had an HE TL) that Andrew knows what he's talking about. If he says he likes the machine, it's a good machine. I think because HE TL's have improved drastically compared to when they first came out.
|
Post# 887715 , Reply# 27   7/1/2016 at 16:22 (2,827 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
'So long as the comforter or large item is loaded as though there is an invisible agitator post in the middle, you'll never have problems with tangling....'
The key to getting good performance out of these HE TLs is too follow the rules exactly to the letter. They're marginal performers, at best, so any deviation from the 'best practice' will result in poor cleaning. |
Post# 887724 , Reply# 28   7/1/2016 at 17:10 (2,827 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
maybe "I won't mention his name" is washing all his clothes on the bulky cycle in deep water. |
Post# 887774 , Reply# 29   7/2/2016 at 06:19 (2,827 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I think the statement you made is the most true. "The only thing HE machines have in common with traditional washers is that they load from the top." |
Post# 887832 , Reply# 31   7/2/2016 at 13:50 (2,826 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
I don't feel sorry for front load owners who say "they are sick & tired of not being able to get a hot wash." They're the ignorant ones who don't know to buy a model with a heater. In fact, models without heaters should no longer be sold. There are cycles and options on those models that do engage the heater to supplement or boost water temp in the washer. THAT'S why I will use s front loader over an He top loader. Even the He top loader with heat and steam cannot get a hot as front loaders. |
Post# 887849 , Reply# 33   7/2/2016 at 15:29 (2,826 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
out of curiosity - would an HE TL washer with a built in heater not get as hot as a FL with a built in heater? - this shows how much I know. I didn't realize any HE TL washer even had a heater at all. But if they do, isn't a heating element a heating element? Maybe HE FL washers have to use a little more water, thus it takes longer to heat, thus not getting as hot? I'm just guessing. I've never used an HE TL washer myself.
|
Post# 887852 , Reply# 34   7/2/2016 at 16:10 (2,826 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
There were/are many HE toploaders with heating elements. Oasis, Cabrio, and Bravos models over the years. I find four current Maytag/Whirlpool models have heating, and I imagine some Samsung and/or LG. Whirlpool WTW8700E parts list shows an element, #20 on page 6. WTW8500D WTW8510F MVWB855D The TOL Neptune TL FAV9800 had a heating element. I've rarely seen them in the wild so apparently didn't sell well, probably too expensive. Calypsos unfortunately do not. They'd be perfect if so. |
Post# 887867 , Reply# 35   7/2/2016 at 17:45 (2,826 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
HE top loaders can get hot as well. Their cycles times, however, may reflect how long it takes to heat a large amount of water up. Some manufacturers will also drastically limit the amount of clothes the Sani cycle can wash. Here's LG's Allergene cycle with default settings on the large top loader.
(c) AutistiVision on YouTube
View Full Size
|
Post# 887894 , Reply# 36   7/2/2016 at 21:49 (2,826 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
The BravOasis I have fills with only hot as long as a cycle other than Normal is used. Even the Bulky cycle will use true hot tap when selected.
@vacerator - I actually never use the Bulky cycle for anything. Uses too much water, and the agitation is too aggressive, so it's ironically counterproductive to how well the other cycles perform. My machine is one step below the TOL model, with the only difference being that mine doesn't have the heating element. Looking back, I should have thrown in the small difference in cost to upgrade, but I really don't miss it because my laundry room is a few feet away from where the water heater is in the garage on the other side of the wall, so my hot washes are always adequate. Also. I haven't posted much, but we're in Brisbane Australia until the end of July and THIS is what we have to live with. If you want to talk about horrible HE/impeller top loaders, THIS machine is the one you're looking for. The dryer isn't much better. I thought it might be condenser, but it's merely a traditional that doesn't vent out, and instead makes the room humid and the walls drip. Blegh. But, it's still better than not having a machine in our apartment at all, so I can't complain. |
Post# 887902 , Reply# 37   7/3/2016 at 00:10 (2,826 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 887917 , Reply# 38   7/3/2016 at 07:31 (2,826 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
I got a really good deal on a closeout model LG at Lowes, less than $375, so I couldn't pass it up. My curiosity had the better of me for some time with the front-control models and I finally gave in.
I've been using this washer for about four months now and have to say that with no modifications, no water level cheats, I've been pretty impressed with the capabilities of the LG. Bulky bedding, small to giant loads have been no trouble and with proper detergent use, the rinsing has been very adequate.
Of course, I've played with the water level and washing cycles and have found that more water isn't necessarily better. Smaller loads tend to float and get little or no agitating and larger loads get agitated but not as aggressively as when the "logic" is allowed to run it's course. |
Post# 887924 , Reply# 40   7/3/2016 at 07:51 (2,825 days old) by Washerkid (Boynton Beach, Florida)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
how any clothes get clean in an HE top loader with only a pint of water and no agitator. The clothes seem to be much more wrinkled as well. |
Post# 887929 , Reply# 41   7/3/2016 at 08:20 (2,825 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 887933 , Reply# 42   7/3/2016 at 08:30 (2,825 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Gansky-- I love the look of your LG. Reminds one of the earliest top-loaders with controls along the front edge-- Maytag, Whirlpool, Frigidaire and Blackstone come to mind. |
Post# 887936 , Reply# 43   7/3/2016 at 08:41 (2,825 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Don't use a pint of water, or anything close to it, in fact they use more water than most FL washer cycles, so if its MORE water you want you guys should be trying out these interesting washers.
We have had several Samsung and LG TL HE washers come through the shop in the last few years and we have always resold them after a lot of testing and playing with them and they do a pretty good job overall.
I do think with HE TL washers it is more important to select the correct cycle for what you are washing and sort the clothing for best results, FL washers are more forgiving about what you throw in a load.
Greg I am glad you are having fun with your new washer, I will be interested in hearing a full report, is the one you got Chinese or Korean manufactured ? |
Post# 887938 , Reply# 44   7/3/2016 at 08:58 (2,825 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 887945 , Reply# 46   7/3/2016 at 11:30 (2,825 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I'm enjoying this thread. For the most part, it has confirmed what I have believed all along: plain old physics suggests that a front loader, using gravity and a comparatively small amount of water, keeps the dirty laundry moving and soil emulsified and suspended without a lot of idiotic mechanisms and BS. Even better if the machine has an internal heater.
These arguments also connect to a previous thread that indicates that Americans have a strong preference for anything Top-Loading, most probably because that's what their parents had. I know one friend who's no dummy who chose an inadequate contemporary Top-Loader because "that little porthole that I'm supposed to stoop down to load and unload the machine would drive me crazy". I think for most consumers you put the clothes in the machine, add the prescribed products, push the button and at the end you've got clean clothes. I don't think most people these days really care if their laundry is as clean as it could be.
To paraphrase Crystal Allen: " If you throw a blouse into a working washing machine, what's to keep it from getting done?"
I must admit, even though I collect and covet all my vintage Top-Loaders, I use them less and less as daily drivers, especially now that I have the Miele hooked up and working. It's superior in every way except capacity, although, for my needs, there are very few loads that need to be done in the 1-18 and it's beginning to show signs of age. I can load the Miele with laundry and all the additives needed and walk away from it knowing that in 24 short hours (kidding) my laundry will be as clean and as damp-dried as can be.
|
Post# 887952 , Reply# 47   7/3/2016 at 12:25 (2,825 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 887965 , Reply# 48   7/3/2016 at 14:17 (2,825 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 888008 , Reply# 50   7/3/2016 at 22:51 (2,825 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
All I can say is my LG made front loader holds more than any washer I have ever had and cleans it magnificently with no lint, sediment or wear to the items being washed and spins it nearly dry. |
Post# 888011 , Reply# 51   7/4/2016 at 00:22 (2,825 days old) by Murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
|
Post# 888047 , Reply# 52   7/4/2016 at 08:28 (2,824 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
That was part of the reason of getting a Filter Flo because I have 2 cats and lots of hair! That thing collects most of the hair/lint even before it goes in the dryer. I got better results from the Kenmore 28102 with that than the LG front loader I used for 2 years. It didn't get rid of the hair very well at all.
|