61 multimatic belts?


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Thread Number: 67672 / Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
61 multimatic belts?

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Post# 903926 10/22/2016 at 18:12 (2,741 days old) by sfh074 ( )
Checkrate/Likes Hi Guys. I am trying to replace belts on my '61 Frigidaire washer and did a search here to find if anyone else had asked this question before. I found a thread that talked about belts for the '59 or '60 multimatic and the belt part numbers mentioned ..... Lower Belt: 3L320 and Upper Belt: 3L280. I am working on a Frigidaire WIAR-61 and would love to know if these 2 belts would work on my '61 multimatic?? I have the 2-speed clutch system and the service manual I have only gives one part number for a 2-belt set. The number shown is "6563821, Belt SET". I want to replace the weathered belts, but of course I can't find belts by this original number. Can anyone confirm the alternative belt numbers mentioned above would work on my model? Also, did they have individual part numbers, or was this "belt set" number the only number listed? Perhaps if I had individual belt part numbers I could find cross-references for the belts I need? Any help appreciated. Thanks! View Full Size

Post# 903929 , Reply# 1 10/22/2016 at 19:32 (2,740 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *Frigidaire Belt Sets For Two Belt Washers* These belts were originally sold in matched pre-streached sets because you can't really adjust the tension of the belts individually, unfortunately if you can't find a fresh set of pre-streached belts you will have to try your luck with buying the closest thing and hope you can get it to work.

Post# 903959 , Reply# 2 10/23/2016 at 09:02 (2,740 days old) by TrainGuy (Key West, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *Always Try This* When trying to find Frigidaire parts on line, remember to add 530 before the part number. If you enter 5306563821, mypartshelf.com comes up with a new set for $36.74 in their Alabama warehouse. Good Luck! Rich

Post# 904216 , Reply# 3 10/25/2016 at 08:27 (2,738 days old) by sfh074 ( )
Checkrate/Likes *Big thank you* Thanks for the info Rich. Very helpful!

Post# 904808 , Reply# 4 10/30/2016 at 10:02 (2,733 days old) by TrainGuy (Key West, FL)
Checkrate/Likes *Checkin' In* Were you able to get the belts?

Post# 905227 , Reply# 5 11/2/2016 at 21:44 (2,729 days old) by sfh074 ( )
Checkrate/Likes 7 *My curiosity got the best of me, about multi-matic belts!* Hi Rich, I did buy a set of belts but not from the seller you suggested. All of my searching here at AW.org for multi-matic belt replacement and adjusting returned a lot of people giving encouragement about working with these belts .... threads ending with the phrase "good luck!". However, I didn't find any threads where someone had tried to share their experience of working on multi-matic belt replacement or adjusting them. I saw the term "multi-tragic" used a lot and got to thinking, "Could it be new belts and/or tension adjusting causes people to refer to these machines as "tragic"?? I read lots of threads where this non-endearing term was used, and it sounded that work attempted on some of these machines ended in frustration. So this word, multi-tragic, got stuck in my head. I wanted to see firsthand why this particular washer mechanism received this name. I wanted to see if I could at least come up with a repeatable method of replacing and adjusting these belts, since it appears that the belts are at least one aspect that lends to this name calling. Detailed below is the rabbit hole I went down while replacing belts on my '61 multi-matic WIAR-61. If you like to read the ending first, I had a pleasant outcome. The Frigidaire gods must have had mercy on me. My main goal was to figure out how to buy generic replacement belts and understand what their role is in the overall mechanism ..... not just the obvious of transferring torque from the motor to the transmission. What I ended up finding is that the original design engineer, built in to these washers, a requirement for a long sustained belt slippage until the rotating mass gets up to full speed. But only the lower belt is to slip, not the top belt! Maybe this weird "function by design" has lead to the disparaging name. Firstly the belts: When I first created this thread, my original question was, did anyone know the generic belt sizes for each belt since the only part number I had to go on was a �belt set� part number. I finally found individual belt part numbers for each belt. After cross-referencing these numbers, I found the dimensions for each belt. The smaller top belt measures: Outside length = 28" 38 degree taper Top Width = 3/8" Thickness = 7/32" After putting all this together, a generic 3L series is an exact cross-section match and a "3L280" is the correct length. The larger lower belt measures: Outside length = 32" 38 degree taper Top Width = 3/8" Thickness = 7/32" So, a "3L320" is the correct shape and length. I also noticed that they come in different make-ups. 1.) Polyester Reinforced Cord with Rubber Coating and rubber body. 2.) Polyester Reinforced Cord with Fabric Covering and rubber body. 3.) Kevlar Cord with Rubber Coating and rubber body. I have read in several places that original belts were "pre-stretched" and part numbers show they were sold as a set. As a starting point, I measured my old belts and the top belt measured 28.24" and the lower belt measured 32.27", so both look to have stretched by a 1/4" over their lifespan. They look original to the machine, so perhaps 55 year old belts? What I have found as being the key, is the belt lengths. And only then, with correct tensioning, will you ever have any chance to get the mechanism to work properly. I think prestretching is a misnomer. The key really, is having the 2 belts as close to 28" and 32" as possible .... and here�s why .... both belts together, rotate on the same two axises. One axis .... the transmission, and the other axis .... the motor pulleys. If either one of the belts is longer or shorter than spec (even by a little bit), you'll never get the correct lower belt slippage, period. As for prestretch, they may have done that at the factory, but if you purchase belts that are as close to spec as possible, 28" and 32", you should be able to set lower belt slip and tension just fine. I went one step further. I bought belts with the Kevlar Cord to take out any "stretching" from the equation. The Kevlar cords should prevent any stretching over time. The belt numbers were 3L280K and 3L320K. But �if� they do stretch over time, this shouldn't matter. Just like the original poly belts, together they should stretch at the same rate. Like I said earlier, both of my old belts had grown by a 1/4�, and they still worked OK. So when buying new belts for your multi-matic, measure the lengths of both new belts by stretching out a tape measure on a flat surface and with a pencil, draw a mark on the side of the belt near the top. Carefully roll the belt on the tape measure starting at the pencil mark and ending at the mark. This will be the belt length. Do it a couple of times to make sure you did it consistently and get their exact measurements for both belts. If for some reason the belt lengths (28" and 32") turn out to be greater than or less than 1/16th of an inch for either belt, return it and get another belt. If not, installing it will just be a waste of your time and you will never get the needed lower belt slippage adjusted properly. My original Frigidaire belts (Frigidaire logos still faintly visible) did not appear to have any fabric covering on the V-groove side, but simply rubber with some of the inner cording showing through. I noticed that the service manual talked about the lower belt and how it is supposed to slip during transmission spin-up. This allows the motor to start and run constantly at normal rpm, while the rest of the mechanism is still accelerating. It details how a service technician is supposed to watch an in-line watt-meter to judge if the belts are properly tensioned. A reading is to be taken at initial start-up, again during acceleration and then a couple of minutes later after reaching max rpm. I am certain the lower belt slip was designed on purpose to allow slip during the acceleration process so the heavy (drum, water, clothes, transmission) mass could gain speed without slowing the motor. With a heavy load of clothes, max spin rpm can take 15 secs or more. What I have found is, if the belts are not tensioned correctly, the washer will either not run or slip during normal use. If too tight, the motor won't ever start to spin. Too loose, the belts slip and both the spin and wash cycle never get up to proper speeds, and the belts start to smell of hot rubber. Since I only have a clamp-on ammeter, (not sure where I could even get a watt-meter) I converted the "wattage" measurements shown in the service manual to what the amperage readings would be based on measured line voltage. I placed the ammeter around the L1 black wire where it enters the washer from the receptacle. With the washer in its upright position, I added a tub full of heavy blankets for added spinning mass. I also had tools ready to adjust the belt tension springs. I should mention a couple of items about belt fitment. Since slippage is necessary on the lower belt, take 220 grit sandpaper and thoroughly clean the v-grooves that the lower belt will come in contact with. Mine had old belt rubber streaked across the groove faces. This took some doing but I ended up with smooth and shiny groove faces when done. If the upper belt pulleys have excessive rubber residue, do the same procedure, but mine already looked quite shiny and smooth. Next, take acetone and clean the v-grooves of the 4 pulleys, even if they look OK. Next, wipe the faces of the new belts with acetone as well. This will eliminate any possible oils, silicone, wax, release agents, etc that could be on the belts. Idea is to eliminate any hidden variables. When I first installed the new belts, I loosened the 4 motor bracket mounting screws and pulled the motor back to get the slack out of the belts and tightened the screws back. I then put the tension springs to the center holes. Next I ran 2 complete spin cycles to seat the new belts and break them in. So here goes, how to set proper belt(s) tension in 3 steps: 1.) At initial start-up on SPIN and the ammeter installed. The ammeter reading is taken for just the first couple of seconds at start of spin. It is easier to have someone who can start and stop the washer dial for you. The service manual says = 2000 - 2500 watts ...... converted to amps = 17 - 21 amps. If it exceeds 21 amps, or the motor will not start, the belts are too tight. Too loose, if under 17 amps. ** Adjust springs as needed to achieve a reading closer to 21 amps, but not too tight, so the motor will still start. In the next step we�ll adjust the springs a bit looser to achieve the necessary lower belt slip. * I should mention that you need to measure your line voltage first, and just divide the service manual power (wattage) specs with your line voltage for more accurate numbers. Line voltage at the receptacle read 119 volts for me, so my numbers needed for measuring step #1 were 17 - 21 amps. So measure the voltage coming into your home and adjust the numbers for your circumstance. 2.) As the mass continues to spin up, the lower belt "allowed slippage" is measured. You can actually see the lower belt slip until the rotating mass reaches near max rpm. The service manual says = 1050 - 850 watts ...... converted to amps = 8.8 - 7 amps. You'll have to start and stop the washer a few times to get the hang of when you really need to start looking for belt slippage AND the mechanism is still accelerating, to take this reading. If higher than 8.8, lower belt is too tight. If lower than 7, lower belt too loose. As anticipated, my lower belt was too tight so I stepped back, one spring at a time, one hole and try it again. Once I got readings that were within 7 - 8.8 amps, the tension should be set at this point. 3.) Lastly, once the mass is up to full speed, the normal running current is measured. Also can be measured during a washing cycle. The service manual says = 380 - 300 watts ...... converted for ammeter = 3 - 2.5 amps. If these numbers turn out to be slightly higher or lower for you, I would wait and recheck this measurement after doing several loads of laundry to allow the new belts to settle in. My initial reading on this step was 3.3 amps but after letting it run for awhile it came down and now reads 2.9 amps consistently. If you can�t get the readings needed in steps 2 and 3, re-adjust the motor bracket in or out as needed and start over on #1. After a few tries, I ended up with one spring in the next tighter hole and one spring in the next looser hole from centers. This arrangement of the 2 springs allowed for a start current of 19 amps, a spinning-up current of between 8.5 and 7.5 amps, and a normal running current of 2.9 amps. All within range of the 3 points of measurements. :) One note .... the belts on 2-speed multi-matics get equal tension, however the belts on the single speed models (like WDA-61 or 62) .... the lower belt is set to be slightly looser to obtain the correct reading of step #2. To adjust tension on the lower belt for the single speed models, simply re-adjust the motor bracket mounting screws to allow proper lower belt slippage and reading of step #2. Another note about the single speed models �. both belts are the same length. I think they are both 32� (need to verify) and Frigidaire sold them as a set under a single part number in 1959 thru 1961. However, they show the individual belt part number 7522200 on both the upper and lower for 1962-1964 multi-matics and quit selling them as a set. I bet this led to servicing problems when they stopped selling them as a set, since most people probably bought one belt to replace the one that wore out first. In the �62 service manual, there is a one sentence mention .... to always replace both belts at the same time. Rich pointed me to a web store that appeared to sell a belt "set" for about $47 with shipping. Thank you Rich for that! But my curiosity got the best of me and I wanted to experiment and perhaps figure out the belt mystery on the multi-matics. I ended up buying the Kevlar belts for $7 per belt and free shipping from eBay. Their lengths turned out to be exactly 28" and 32". I am convinced that the factory, back in the day, only sold the 2 belts as a set under a single part number for the simple reason to ensure that they could be adjusted. You also have to realize too as belts wear, the inner circumference of the belt gets bigger as rubber wears off the groove face and the cording continues to stretch, even if the belt was originally prestretched. If they had sold the belts individually, I think most people would simply buy one belt to replace the one that wore out first. Trying to adjust tension on one new belt and one heavily used belt would never work. Good luck working on your multi-matic!

Post# 905239 , Reply# 6 11/2/2016 at 23:09 (2,729 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)
Checkrate/Likes Wow! Thanks for your detailed post! I have 3 Multi-Matic washers, all single speed Deluxe models (I wish I could find a 1961 clamshell machine to match my DCIF-61 dryer) and while I had to open one of them to fix the transmisssion, I never replaced the belts or did put the machine into regular use. Hopefully, I will soon and I'll certainly check the starting and operating wattage with my wattmeter. I'll refer to your post if any readjustment is needed!

Post# 905271 , Reply# 7 11/3/2016 at 09:03 (2,729 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)
Checkrate/Likes *THANK YOU!!!!!* I have a 1963 Custom Imperial that needs MAJOR work, and possibly a whole lot more. I won't be getting to it for a long long time, but this thread shall prove essential, especially considering I've never worked on a Frigidaire before, much less a Multimatic. Dave

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