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Thread Number: 69369
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Front loader spin protocol |
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Post# 922353 , Reply# 1 2/19/2017 at 10:07 (2,614 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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 Jon, I have similar issues with my November 2011 duet. My guess is that the final spin is programmed to be extra sensitive because the final spin speed can be extra high. Interim spins between the washes and rinses don't reach as high a spin speed in my observation. I've also notice the Normal/Casual cycle has less spin issues, but I don't use that very often because of the lower water temps and lower amounts of water. | ||
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Post# 922367 , Reply# 2 2/19/2017 at 11:07 (2,614 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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yeah, some are programmed that way.....which may be the oddest thing, and in your case, the interim spins are basically a few seconds, no point in actually making sure its fully balanced, versus the final spin....
even my Neptunes, at least the 3000 series, claimed to monitor oversuds, long fill or drain times.....note: but ONLY during the first drain and rinse... any other time of the cycle, there is no monitoring or shut down for these issues.... and like you, no one would notice until an issue turned up, THEN Maytag would fess up, the claim is for only that part of the cycle.... one of those times, we learn things the hard way.... | ||
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Post# 922370 , Reply# 3 2/19/2017 at 11:13 (2,614 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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I noticed this sometimes on all the spins for my LG FL, but most especially on the final spin. What I don't understand is why the spins can't start out slow to evenly distribute the load and gradually increase to the max set spin speed? This is what the old FL's did, before they were controlled by computers. This constant hunting for a sweet spot to spin is really what finally prompted me to get rid of my LG FL. I just got tired of 90 to 120 min plus cycle times to wash a load. These excessive times to get the machine to spin are a complete waste of time, and I have to wonder how it is wearing out the pump, as the pump seems to operate during these sometimes 15 mins before the finicky machine decides, oh well I guess I'll spin now.
Eddie | ||
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Post# 922375 , Reply# 4 2/19/2017 at 11:21 (2,614 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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my Frigidaire FLer used to play with the last spin, which seemed like eternity to hit that sweet spot.....by that point, lucky if it got 2 minutes of spin in there......
not sure if its a factor, but since I increased the water level, there is usually two distribution tumbles for a few seconds, and then it takes off for a full 12 minute spin.... if I put it back to factory specs, it plays around again...there has to be something about it.... | ||
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Post# 922376 , Reply# 5 2/19/2017 at 11:21 (2,614 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 922382 , Reply# 6 2/19/2017 at 11:37 (2,614 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Whirlpool Stepped Spin | ||
| Post# 922392 , Reply# 7 2/19/2017 at 12:34 (2,614 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
What Bob said | ||
| Post# 922398 , Reply# 9 2/19/2017 at 12:54 (2,614 days old) by washerdude (Canada ) | ||
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Whirlpool Duet Tachometer Test (Not my unit but similar) | ||
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Post# 922417 , Reply# 11 2/19/2017 at 15:38 (2,614 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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 What Harley said.
With my 2008 Affinity, since it stupidly doesn't employ a spray rinse, it instead goes into a spin to extract water from its contents after main wash and subsequent rinses. Sometimes it will spin for a few seconds to extract enough water to make contents lighter and easier to balance for the full interim spin period. This makes sense.
What doesn't make any sense is what Harley described above. I can stand there monitoring the lengthy balancing act and quite often witness conditions where it should be satisfied enough to launch into high speed final spin, but instead it will slow down and attempt to rebalance, never hitting the same sweet spot it had squandered. This is extremely aggravating. | ||
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Post# 922423 , Reply# 12 2/19/2017 at 17:03 (2,614 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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"I can stand there monitoring the lengthy balancing act and quite often witness conditions where it should be satisfied enough to launch into high speed final spin, but instead it will slow down and attempt to rebalance, never hitting the same sweet spot it had squandered. This is extremely aggravating."
This is the same experience that I had more often than not with my LG FL. It would seemingly have found the "sweet spot" after endless hunting for it to begin to spin, and I'd think, at last! Then instead of ramping up for the final high speed spin, I'll be damned if it wouldn't stop, and start to redistribute again, sometimes resulting in another lengthly "hunt". And I always loaded per manual instructions, for mixed loads I would load larger or heavier items first, but it really didn't seem to make a difference. What's curious though is that single large items, like a king size comforter or bedspread, these loads just sailed through with nary a "hunt". I've owned several FL's before, a 87' White-Westinghouse, and 3 different Frigidaire FL's, from 99' thru 06', and NONE of these machines ever did this. It wasn't until I bought one of the newer generation Frigidaire FL's in 10' that I ever experienced this endless "spin hunt". They have been building these newer FL's now for at least 7 years or more. We can't be the only users that are noticeing this. It would seem like they could have found a solution for this annoyance by now. Eddie This post was last edited 02/19/2017 at 20:44 | ||
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Post# 922425 , Reply# 13 2/19/2017 at 17:22 (2,614 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As others have touched upon the series of stops and rebalancing then starting again for final spin seems to be a way of coping with two things; preventing deep creasing from prolonged spinning, and lightening wash load before main spin cycle.
My older Miele has "graduated spin" cycle before the main for "Normal" cottons/linens. Here the machine does a series of short spins, stops, rebalances, then spins again. This machine however only has "electronic" controls coupled with a mechanical timer. Thus it can only attempt to redistribute a wash load "X" amount of times; then it will spin regardless even if that means the tub will whack itself to bits in process. Also with this older machine the pump/motor controls aren't as fine tuned as today's fully computer controlled washers. If too much water enters the sump at once best the machine can do is slow down spin while the pump chokes. Now the AEG Oko-Lavamat is a different beast. On any of the spins if the wash sends too much water down sump to cope, machine will slow and or stop spinning while activating a series of strong pulse pumps to clear the overflow. Once that is that things start up again. For final spin, yes, there are series of short spins, stop, redistribute, spin again, etc.. Then comes final spin and gradual ramp to whatever speed is selected. Watching the SQ front loaders at launderette first portion of final spin is a slow pulse spin. Here the machine seems to be more about redistributing the wash load and preventing hard creasing. Say this because these machines do not have pumps, but a dump valve. Thus in theory aren't bothered about too much water exiting drains at one time. Will agree it is maddening to have one short spin perfectly balanced, only to have the machine ramp down, redistribute, and then start up again with perhaps not so perfect results. A final thought: My old Miele is built to last and thus can cope (within reason) with spinning unbalanced loads. OTOH the AEG Oko-Lavamat is far less substantial and seems clearly designed to avoid unbalanced loads at all costs. | ||
| Post# 922486 , Reply# 14 2/20/2017 at 00:55 (2,613 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
accelerometers
I read not too long ago that WP's newest line of FLs (as well as Maytag) mostly use motor resistance feedback for sensing balance, as well as vibration control with a little accelerometer somewhere on the control board.
(Not sure it's on the motor board or the front console board). This gives the machine more feedback based on cabinet shaking and vibrations as opposed to simple motor strain input. I got a weak damper so my Maxima vibrates a tad more than it used to, which causes the machine to rebalance more often. But once it gets there, it's pretty smooth considering it's almost literal achilles heel. | ||
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Post# 922503 , Reply# 15 2/20/2017 at 05:26 (2,613 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
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Post# 922516 , Reply# 17 2/20/2017 at 08:09 (2,613 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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That is actually one inherent advantage of toploaders: You can deside the load balance. Just arrange the items in a blanced pattern, and they won't shift before spining occurs. | ||
| Post# 922560 , Reply# 18 2/20/2017 at 11:18 (2,613 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
problem solved
With my previous Frigidaire front loader I noticed occasionally that the first spin took a long time to balance. In fact, at times it would "time out" and go into first rinse without spinning. After that it mostly would go through rest of cycle without a hitch. Go figure.
Now the current LG front loader I have is a different story -- NEVER any long balancing times, even with a king comforter (which used to drive the Frigidaire insane on every spin.) The new LG has what it calls the "True-Balance" system. It starts out spinning slow, rumbling a bit with a not-so-perfect balance situation, and then magically adjusts somehow and spins like a top. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it is very effective. Some here have complained about the older generation LGs taking forever to spin and long cycle times, but it seems like LG figured it out, because my new one is great. My usual go-to normal cycle, with an extra rinse selected, takes about 45 minutes with two spin-spray rinses and two deep rinses. I'm happy. | ||
| Post# 922566 , Reply# 19 2/20/2017 at 11:37 (2,613 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK) | ||
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Is it too far a leap to say for all intents and purposes the best FL machine is the one with the best computer/programming? And then to simply accept the fact that the machine is built to last around 10 years but not to worry as tech will have improved enough by such time as to make it's replacement essentially appropriate anyway? When I was looking to buy a new set 2 years ago and started a thread here in which I posted updates on my search, and one of our German members made this very argument...don't worry about decades long longevity as that is no longer the big issue, "future proofing" is. And that is best done targeting a date approx a decade hence. Hanging onto the machine significantly later being counter productive as the wash technology of that future time will by then have advanced enough to more than justify the replacement/upgrading. This post was last edited 02/20/2017 at 13:03 | ||
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Post# 922574 , Reply# 20 2/20/2017 at 11:56 (2,613 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Rich
I'm happy for you that your LG with True Balance works so well! My LG that was purchased in 2015 was supposed to have True Balance too, but alas my experience wasn't the same as your's, at least with most loads. But with large, single item loads like comforters and bedspreads it sailed thru the cycle without hesitation. And the only cycle that ever finished quickly was the Speed Wash, the next fastest was Bulky with a single item about 55-60 mins., all others took at least 90 to 120 mins and sometimes even more, and this was without any extra rinses or options other than Water Plus, which was essential to use. Otherwise, it would tumble at the beginning of the wash portion for several mins, with every thing looking dry, especially if I selected heavy soil level, which I gave up on right away. On heavy soil level it would, and I kid you not, tumble for 30 mins. with everything almost completely dry. How was anything supposed to get clean that way? But normal soil level eventually got fairly saturated with
Water Plus option, and the clothes did get clean, but just took too long for me. Maybe there was something wrong with mine? Anyway, its a moot point now because I got rid of it. And I am in no way trying to say that you are wrong! Your experience just doesn't match mine. Eddie This post was last edited 02/20/2017 at 13:02 | ||
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Post# 922617 , Reply# 21 2/20/2017 at 14:32 (2,613 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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It wouldn't be so annoying if, during the futile balancing act, I could pause the machine and get in there to do my own re-distribution. Unfortunately, my Affinity keeps the door locked for something like three minutes after hitting the pause button. Sorry, but I'd rather let it keep trying during those three minutes than wait there while it does nothing.
I really don't understand the logic. If the basket has stopped moving, unlock the goddamned door then! | ||
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Post# 922677 , Reply# 25 2/20/2017 at 17:42 (2,613 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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I loved FL's before they started making the way they are now. I'll probably never buy another one because the the "spin hunt" nonsense. The old, simple, electro-mechanical controlled FL's like the Westinghouse and Frigidaire's were really very good machines and they still were conservation friendly because they used less water than a TL.
Eddie | ||
| Post# 922709 , Reply# 27 2/20/2017 at 19:47 (2,612 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
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Hey Eddie
I didn't realize your LG was a newer machine. Mine is a 3570 with the turbo wash, which recirculates and sprays the water on the load as it tumbles in wash and deep rinse. It really drenches everything good even though it uses a low water level in wash. Some cycles, like towels and bulky, use a deeper water level, but I can't manually select a deeper fill.
I'm thrilled with my machine in all respects. I especially like it spraying water in the spin cycle for a spin-spray rinse. I've never seen a front load washer do that before. Sorry your experience with the brand has not been as good. | ||
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Post# 922713 , Reply# 28 2/20/2017 at 20:11 (2,612 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Post# 922746 , Reply# 30 2/20/2017 at 23:17 (2,612 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Quite a few variables Are involved in setting up a successful spin-dry. Longevity of the washer. Avoiding 'resonance' points. Flooring. Noise. Wear and tear on the clothes. Maximum water extraction. Cost/Utility factors - heavy-duty suspension/bearings/various sensors/high-quality programming. Time considerations.
Of all these, time considerations are the least expensive to 'sacrifice' in the interest of the other considerations. By giving the machine more time to set up a well-balanced spin, one can save the expense of higher-quality components/better programming (software set up for each individual machine's characteristics, for example).
We are asking a lot of these machines - and we don't want to pay what they would cost if they were set up to run a quick final spin.
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| Post# 922797 , Reply# 32 2/21/2017 at 04:51 (2,612 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
My Duet 
same thing!! Final spin (doesn't always) but often takes a while to balance enough to fill it is safe to continue.
Regarding interim spins though - I've noticed the past few years that once in a while, my Duet doesn't reach normal interim spin speed, it's like it's a couple of hundred RPM's off. It's almost like it gave up trying to balance the load and just compromised with a slower interim spin. Weird. | ||
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Post# 922802 , Reply# 33 2/21/2017 at 06:08 (2,612 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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 My Asko is a little more persnickety than my Miele is. The Miele does this gradual increase and allows the pump to catch up for a second before it ramps up another notch. The Asko sometimes appears perfectly balanced to me but it "thinks" it isn't an will try to balance again...and at other times it looks to be very wonky but will go into full spin anyway...go figure! | ||
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