Thread Number: 69670
/ Tag: Modern Dryers
Miele 1215T / 1405 12 year update.
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|Post# 925873   3/9/2017 at 17:02 (828 days old) by UncleDave (California)  || |
After 12 years my miele 1215T and matching dryer have needed a total of two service calls.
This set has provided fantastic service – and a scan of the hours on her turned up 10,246 – at roughly an hour per cycles a fairly impressive amount of work.
First after about 5 years the washer has a stuck inlet solenoid, My trusty repair person showed up with the part and fixed the machine in about an hour and at that time programmed the rinse to add a bit more water than came standard. The bill came to about 250 if I recall between parts and labor.
Earlier this week service was dispatched again to address unhappy noises in the dryer, and a wobbly drum in spin mode, and I solicited some feedback on special needs that were vexing me regarding over sudsing despite a standard amount of soap.
The wobbly drum was affecting the spin cycle and preventing full RPM from being reached.
We discovered a blown shock, and while the guy was in the machine I had the brushes changed out and they were down to about 80%, and he replaced the two shocks. He tightened up the front plate and after service a previously squeaky machine was back to its like new turbine smoothness – impressive that a service could bring it back to the tightness of the original unit.
The dryer noise turned out to be the carbon brush rattling when hot and a replacement of that
was done on the spot.
The hypothesis on sudsing was that lack of full spin was fialing to extract the soapy residue leading t a buildup condition in the grooming towels over time – well see how this plays out in the next few week as they wash out any residual soap and the problem either rfixes itself or stay.
In search of a custom program to address the grooming towels the tech attached the latest Miele PC scan tool and despite several attempts and all the trickery he could muster he was not able to get the tool to talk to the washer – kind of a bummer in that one of the original sales jobs on the machine was is ability to upload a new or custom program.
A quickie hardware only breakdown of costs would be as follows.
5000 for the set originally delivered and setup including the splitter box I needed.
250 for first service
450 for second service (2 sets brushes, and shocks)
Once could argue that I didn’t “have” to replace the second shock, or have to replace the brushes but ignoring that while I was already in the machine is penny wise and pound foolish to me.
5700 -divide that by 10,246 loads and I get .55 cents a load from a hardware only perspective.
Compared to your standard FL Speed Queen set at a little over half the price this is expensive on a pure hardware level but that alone doesn’t tell the whole story.
Water, soap, energy saving aren’t in that number and are likely meaningful.
In a standard machine that doesn’t heat the water to as high a temp I would have to use bleach and or run a sanitizing empty load between work towels and home laundry, doubling the runs, and reducing the life of the material significantly so when one factors in all the upsides the cost becomes workable.
If I make it to 15K with no additional work the cost per load drops to .38 – if.
Overall I would rate this laundry system a 9 out of 10.
Exceptional performance, at reasonable costs, robust build quality, hampered only by lack of ongoing customization/connectivity is a downer.
Would I buy again – yes.
|Post# 925896 , Reply# 1   3/9/2017 at 20:17 (828 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
When had the shocks replaced on my Miele only one was worn, but tech said best to replace both at once regardless. Something about if one is going the other would eventually or whatever.
You can always keep the "good" shock as a spare in case of an emergency.
IIRC the 1200 series were the last of "real" Miele washers sold in USA, you should get many more years out of that set.
|Post# 925915 , Reply# 2   3/9/2017 at 22:19 (828 days old) by UncleDave (California)  || |
I agree with him shocks should be replaced in pairs.
I thought about keeping one as well, but even the good shock was hammered compared to the new one as it had been holding more that its own for a while.
As for the last real Mieles being 12XX's I get what you are saying.
Id like more control. Build quality seems as good as old school.
Problem is I couldn't buy new old gear at the time and had to settle with what I could get new.
The 1215T was head and shoulders above anything available when I purchased them and still more than many new machines can offer today.
I hope you are right about lifespan. Id like to get 15K hours at least.
|Post# 926015 , Reply# 3   3/10/2017 at 12:37 (827 days old) by bewitched (Italy)  || |
250$ for a water valve??? it's a steal not to mention the 450$ for a pair of shock absorbers and the carbon brushes. miele parts are certainly expensive but not so expensive. also 5000 $ for the washer is a out of this world price. the top of the line of Miele washers here cost about 2400€. not for all pockets for sure but it's half the price you paid your machine. perhaps i should move there and start a business repairing miele machines 😬
|Post# 926023 , Reply# 4   3/10/2017 at 13:32 (827 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
Sets parts prices based upon exchange rates (Euro to USD), shipping costs and so forth.
One can and has ordered parts from Europe or other sources directly and had Miele install. Long as the packages are still sealed and part new they have no problems. MieleUSA's will not install second hand or used parts, on that point they are most firm.
Truth to tell, often with shipping to USA and exchange rates Miele's prices here aren't *that* bad. It depends on how much one is paying for the part. If lucky and getting spares dirt cheap, then it is a bargain. Otherwise it pays to sit down and do the sums.
What often can be a deal breaker is shipping anything from Europe to USA isn't cheap. Even with various "priority mail" flat rate services from various countries after the exchange rates are done you often are paying dear. Witness the person in another post paying 20 Euros ($21.27 USD) at todays exchange rates) to ship one small Miele detergent dispenser.
Also if the part in question is large and or will not fit in standard boxes costs will be dear. Small bits aren't so bad, but cannot imagine what it would cost to send a motor from Germany to USA.
|Post# 926024 , Reply# 5   3/10/2017 at 13:36 (827 days old) by henene4 (Germany)  || |
5000$ for the pair, and those prices are with labor, so pretty much on par with Germany.
Now that basicly everything that rends to wear out is replaced, the next thing that probably will go out and be the end of the machine will be the bearings. On these machines in the EU, bearings usualy last 15-25 years, so you could say you have something like 5 years, or maybe 10, left.
We'll see where Miele US will be then in terms of machines. Maybe they'll catch up to the W1/T1 generation.
|Post# 926029 , Reply# 6   3/10/2017 at 13:45 (827 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
Many Americans simply consider their washers too small.
Have seen almost new W30XX washers on sale locally (CL) and elsewhere at often give away prices. Advert copy or contact from seller often states "small capacity" as reason for selling. They want something bigger.
Miele ditched rather than work out the problems with their "giant" sized washing machines and dryers, so what they are left with is the (claimed) 2.52 cubic foot capacity of the W30XX series.
Meanwhile the likes of Samsung, Whirlpool and others offer washers at 3.5 cubic feet and above capacity.
|Post# 926042 , Reply# 7   3/10/2017 at 15:41 (827 days old) by UncleDave (California)  || |
Repair prices prices did indeed include parts and labor.
I'd say the machine are comparatively small, but I can do a whole queen sized bed with 4 shams in one go and do it every Sunday so in that regards its just big enough for me, and the load gets clean. My top loaders never cleaned as well.
If I didnt sort AND waited for Laundry day to do it all I probably wouldnt be happy with the size, but since I do I rarely to never need to run more than one load of any type.
I need to find a 50+ pound class machine for my work.
|Post# 926059 , Reply# 8   3/10/2017 at 17:39 (827 days old) by friscosudz (Kirkland, WA)  || |
Purchased my W1213 and T1415 set in 2008. It was a bit of a chore to locate them. Had to call around to several dealers. Most had already changed over to the next series that came pre-wired for 120V. I really wanted the 240V set with the extra heating power. I've moved 3 times since that purchase, and have brought them with us every time. The only thing I wish I could change would be to add "Spin Only" and "Rinse and Spin" cycle options.
My first real service call was a few months ago. Washer was making a loud banging noise when it went into a spin, irregardless of the load size or configuration. I was really afraid that the bearings were starting to go and that was causing the tub to wobble. When the tech came and took the front panel off, he noticed that the bracket that holds the button trap assembly had broken loose and that was banging against the face panel causing the noise. Took all of 2 screws to fix it. Back to good as new! I'm hoping to have the set for another 8-10 years at least. I'm afraid that when they finally give up the ghost I'll have to shuck out the $$ for the Little Giant set!
|Post# 926085 , Reply# 9   3/10/2017 at 18:45 (827 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
Like top loading washers for their speed and dealing light to moderately soiled laundry. Also for the ability to do a true full immersion soak.
OTOH front loaders overall still are streets ahead in terms of overall cleaning, so badly soiled laundry especially which is stained goes into those machines.
As one has often said it is possible to get a brilliant clean wash from either machine; just that top loaders require far more effort (pre-soaking or washing, hot wash, several rinses to ensure removal of all soap/detergent and soil residue.
|Post# 930201 , Reply# 10   4/2/2017 at 12:15 (804 days old) by UncleDave (California)  || |
|Post# 967083 , Reply# 11   11/9/2017 at 21:07 (583 days old) by UncleDave (California)  || |
Had another failure of the cold water inlet solenoid at 10946 cycles.
Well it was getting flaky but not yet totally failed I made the call to my trusty Miele guy Alex.
Seems that is the weakest link in this machine and good for " about " 5500 cycles.
It has three to four times the duty cycle of the hot valve which has yet to fail.
Fix same cost as original visit years ago 250.00 and Alex had the part in his truck, and showed up same day to boot he was in and out in about an hour. Pretty awesome for a 12 year old import machine.
Total long term costs are now 5950 for the pair divided by 10946 cycles and I get .54 cents a load - about a 1 cent drop from last compute even considering a respectably sized repair.
If she were a car and each hour represented 60 miles an hour she'd have 656,760 miles on her.
This time the computer locked up and worked just fine, newer code.
|Post# 968937 , Reply# 12   11/19/2017 at 15:00 (573 days old) by Mieleman (Phoenix)  || |
I am the proud new (to me) owner of a very low hour (I believe) W1215/T1415 set. They were in a hi-end condo model, removed by purchaser, sold to a friend, who didn't move where he intended to install them, and now to me. They're VERY nice machines, quite an upgrade from the previoius LG FLs.
The on-line manuals are very specific with details, so maybe other owners can help me out here?
Washer Questions ...
1) Can one get the 'hour of use' display at home, or does the tech need to plug into them?
2) Four cycles sound very similar: Handwash, Woolen, Delicates, and Silks... how are they different? Have used Woolen for some polyester/wool slacks... mostly soak periods, very slow tumbling... worked great.
3) How is Sturdy different than Normal?
Interesting that not all cycles allow the extra rinse ('sensitive)... I guess Miele is smarter than the users at engineering our wash programs.
For the dryer options...
1) I understand the 'turbo' option turns on the heat immediately, rather than a slight delay?
2) 'Full Load' option: What does that do differently?
3) I assume the 'gentle' option uses lower heat?
4) The 'smooth' cycle'?
5) Is the Sturdy cycle a higher temperature than Normal?
I love the sound of the 1215 spooling up for the highest spin speed....
Thanks to any who can help educate me on the details!
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|Post# 968975 , Reply# 13   11/19/2017 at 19:39 (573 days old) by henene4 (Germany)  || |
On the washer:
1) Yes, one can. These menus you need to acess however contain options that could theoreticly brick your machine if you play about them and don't know what is what. Some options have the potential to lock you out of the settings menu without any chance of getting back in with a few pretty difficult and dangerous maneauvers. Most spin settings override out of balance control, so running these with a load might wreck machine, you and the room.
But here's the link to a full service manual for your machine (USE AT OWN RISK):
2) Delicates should be a gentle cycle supposed for synthetics. With prewash selected, perfect for curtains. High water levels, some agitation, no interim spins, 3 high rinses, short 3-step low speed final spin.
Woolens is for more sturdy woolens. More agitation and different spinning then Handwash.
Handwash is what should be equivalent to todays Wool\Handwash cycle by Miele.
Silks is a verry shot, even more gentle cycle then handwash with ultralow spin to prevent creasing.
3) From reading what "Sturdy" is described as, it sounds like it's the equivalent to the EU "Mischwäsche" (Mixed Load) or "Automatic" cycle. The manual says its for cotton and permanent press mixed loads.
If it is that, the cycle checks via absorbency behaviours wheather you are washing more cottons or more synthetics. Depending on that, the rinse and spin sequences are altered.
Not to be confused with "Automatic Plus" which further can alter the main wash rhythm depending on load recognition. That came out far later however.
I guess you are talking about cycles like the delicate cycles that do not allow extra rinses? Mieles thought was that more rinses meant longer overall cycle times which could harm such delicate loads.
Quite honestly, as the Wool cycle should interim spin, rinsing should be fine by default for most loads if the correct cycle was used. If you however wash super absorbent micrfibre items on delicates, or the spins in the wool cycle failed due to imbalance, just rerunning those cycles rinse portions should solve that.
On the dryer:
1) Turbo not only starts heating after a verry short sensing period (or none at all, not sure), but it dosen't taper the heat also. Normaly, every cycle starts out pretty hot and as the load dries, the temperature and heating power are slowly and slightly reduced; Turbo keeps that from happening.
2) I think the full load option was used to optimize sensing and efficency for test loads. Not sure how it effects dryness or temperature profiles, might even interfer with the reversing algorhythm.
3) Yes, gentle reduces heating power and temperature limits. One of the best gentle options out there IMO.
4) Short cycle for a small-ish load of cottons, linens or synthetics. Cycle applys heat for a certain amount of time or until a certain temperature has been reached and maintained for certain amount of time. In Germany, that cycle lasted 8 minutes I think. Takes out quite a few wrinkels from cotton that is supposed to be hang dried. The load will be warm, but still pretty much as damp as at the start of the cycle.
If there is a "Wool Finish", "Wool Fluff" or simmilarly called cycle on the dryer: That behaves similarly, just with lower temp and shorter duration. Gives wet woolens some relaxation after wash which makes them a tad softer.
5) The sturdy cycle should be the counter part to the washers cycle. Intended for mixed loads, supposed to give gentle and even drying for such loads. Barely used it on anything when we had the option, just took ages compared to the dedicated cycles for seperated fabrics.