Thread Number: 71204
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
My 'Lady' has betrayed me!! |
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Post# 942436   6/8/2017 at 08:24 (2,505 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Specifically, its my '65 Lady Kenmore washer that is the daily driver in St-Lib...
Here's what happened at the end of a normal wash cycle today: the machine had drained and then went into spin. I heard the washer start to vibrate as it usually does, then suddenly it went quiet. I opened the lid to observe the spin (remembering to hold down the lid switch) but nothing happened. I removed the 'equivalent to a GE Combo spun' clothes and tried to rock the tub by hand. Nothing.
However, I could make the washer agitate by carefully positioning the timer at the Forbidden Suds Return position of the dial. Nice hack when you need to test agitation on these older Whirlpool/Inglis/Kenmore washers.
And it looked OK.
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Post# 942438 , Reply# 1   6/8/2017 at 08:26 (2,505 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 942441 , Reply# 2   6/8/2017 at 08:34 (2,505 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Now, as we all know I just LOVE to jump to conclusions about what the root cause of a problem is... I am trying to step back on this one and take careful note of the symptoms:
- Not spinning (DUH...LOL) - Tub cannot be easily turned by hand - No odd smells or signs of burning belt that might point to a locked transmission
Further observation: - After an attempted to spin, a gurgling sound can be heard in the tub and some water seems bubble up from the tub bottom.
So, I have a couple of potential causes, but I wanted to run them by the experts here... - Belt (I am pretty sure I replaced it when I overhauled the machine). Can a WP drive belt slip? - Bad spin solenoid on the wig-wag (Or perhaps just a bad connection) - Spin shaft lock up or bearing problem (however, bearings were redone back in 2013 - A pump issue - I am not sure if a locked/stalled/clogged pump could impact on the machine kicking into spin but I'm not going to dismiss it
I'm not sure I'll be able to take the Lady apart today. Any thoughts or suggestions are always welcome - I love this machine and I just HAVE to have a turquoise set in St-Lib (yes, I have the '59 Frigidaires, but I think I'd kill that washer PDQ under frequent use!) |
Post# 942443 , Reply# 3   6/8/2017 at 08:50 (2,505 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 942445 , Reply# 4   6/8/2017 at 08:59 (2,505 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 942468 , Reply# 5   6/8/2017 at 11:23 (2,505 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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Post# 942470 , Reply# 6   6/8/2017 at 11:31 (2,505 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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hello turqoise dude maybe until you have time to fix repair your turquoise lady kenmore washer you should put as a temp replacement your inglis washer pictured here in an exemple or your whilrpool washer this way it would give you time to do a good maitnance tune up on your lady kenmore washer as well just a suggestion here
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Post# 942484 , Reply# 7   6/8/2017 at 13:30 (2,505 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)   |   | |
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Pop the hood and see if the lid switch has come undone. That was the issue with my 65 which I love more than my luggage as Launderess would say, and which I own all because of your inspiration. Dead without it, I feel your pain.
Upon delivery, she wowld not spin, and then when I popped the hood and saw that lid switch was loose and laying the wrong way, I made it so that the machine would spin with the lid open, as I am a lid free guy. Hope that is the case with your baby--all that regular shaking on spin you mentioned gave me the idea. Good luck, good friend--and SOON! |
Post# 942506 , Reply# 8   6/8/2017 at 16:18 (2,505 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 942507 , Reply# 9   6/8/2017 at 16:28 (2,505 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I started with the lid switch, but also checked timer connections, then observed the solenoids as the machine was in agitate and spin modes. It turns out the cam bar is not engaging to spin, possibly because the cam bar lever is no longer firmly attached to the solenoid plunger. However, I'm not going to be doing any further work on this until Monday. I'd like to pull the washer out of the darned bathroom to have a wee bit more room to work with it, too.
And Pierre André has proved the point I've been trying to make with Hubby.... We NEED a spare washer and dryer set in St-Lib! The Inglis set would be good candidates, as would the '56 Whirlpool Imperials, for sure!!
Darn, I'll have to haul some laundry to Ogden to do on the weekend... The '51 GE has been getting lonely since the Speed Queen arrived, so... LOL
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Post# 942572 , Reply# 10   6/8/2017 at 22:28 (2,505 days old) by barcoboy (Canada)   |   | |
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There might be multiple problems here. If the spin cam bar is not moving at all, it could be a problem with the solenoid itself or it is not getting power due to a broken wire or something other reason. But the machine shouldn't be trying to agitate at this point... it should be in neutral... so either the agitate cam bar is not fully moving to the neutral position, or there might be a transmission problem. Unless that is normal behavior for a '65 transmission when in neutral with no resistance on the agitator.
If you're able, shoot a video of the wig-wag when the machine is trying to shift into both agitate and spin. And if you want, you can always bring the machine down the road to me in Waterville! :-) |
Post# 942596 , Reply# 11   6/9/2017 at 01:48 (2,505 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 942627 , Reply# 12   6/9/2017 at 08:46 (2,504 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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barcoboy: the machine, unfortunately, is at the other house in St-Liboire... A total pain because it's in the bathroom, too
I'll be pulling the Lady out of the bathroom next week (possibly into the guest bedroom, temporarily) so I'll have more room to work. I'm also going to examine the Whirlpool and Inglis machines down in Ogden to see how the cam bars behave on working machines. And I'll go digging in the parts store there - I have at least 1 complete Whirlpool belt drive transmission plus a couple of wig wags. I'm going to try some more tests on the solenoids on the Lady K next week - still hoping it's not a bearing issue...
John, I'll definitely post about what I find - I'll wait until you are back from London to bug you.... (Say hi to Al for me, if you see him!!). I happen to have a spare bearing kit but I don't have the extractor/installation tool. I should be able to borrow one from a fellow in Stanstead, though.
What is throwing me at the moment is that the washer sounds like it is kicking into spin normally and then there is no other noise (no shrieks, groans, squeaks, wails, or other 'complaints'). My thought for the day is 'could the spin shaft have snapped or separated'....
Oh and guess who is NOT impressed with the current situation and whose first pronouncement on the matter was "We're getting a new washer".... No points if you guessed Canyon.
Now I am wondering if perhaps I shouldn't be hauling another washer back from Ogden next week... The Blackstone got exiled into the garage, so.... LOL
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Post# 942710 , Reply# 13   6/9/2017 at 18:35 (2,504 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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Post# 942725 , Reply# 14   6/9/2017 at 19:23 (2,504 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 943066 , Reply# 16   6/11/2017 at 18:46 (2,502 days old) by potatochips ( )   |   | |
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In a weird way I'm glad this happened to you as the SAME thing has happened to me too. I finally have time to fix it now! I'll text you Paul and hopefully we can find a fix in short order. |
Post# 943193 , Reply# 17   6/12/2017 at 15:27 (2,501 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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So on the weekend, I probably should have pulled out one of my other Whirlpool-type machines to observe exactly what happens when spin kicks in, but I contented myself with messing around with the transmission from the '67 Whirlpool that was the parts donor for much of the Inglis restoration. I observed what should happen during a spin by simply holding the spin solenoid plunger up so that the cam bar guide would 'hook' onto the spin cam bar. I observed the cam bar would pull back and hook into the basket shaft and the drive disc started to turn.
Today when I got back to St-Lib, I redid tests on the lid switch and the solenoids for both agitate and spin - all tested OK. I tried to manually lift the spin cam bar guide up to see if I could engage a simulated spin as I rotated the drive pulley, I got the spin cam bar to move forward however I noticed that it was very difficult to turn the pulley (and I do admit I am a wealking; a 7-year old could probably turn it, but I couldn't) I tried to keep the cam bar guide up until I got the cam bar to move back. Once this happened, I noticed the drive pulley was much easier to turn.
I can only think that there is something binding or sticking with the basket drive or perhaps the tub is stuck or jammed somehow.
John L, please let me know when you get back from London. I don't want to bother you while you are getting over jet lag!! My gut feeling is telling me to try taking the tub out. I'll likely have to do that if the transmission needs work anyway...
In the meantime, ssshh, don't tell Hubby but I think I will be getting a 'newer' washer as a backup. I have 1, perhaps 18 opportunities and I think I should act on them... LOL |
Post# 943206 , Reply# 18   6/12/2017 at 16:19 (2,501 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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Post# 943452 , Reply# 19   6/14/2017 at 15:49 (2,499 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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More like 'Plan 9 From Outer Space' LOL So, not to deviate too much from topic, I had the chance to nab this Frigidaire 1-18 from Phil so I grabbed it. It will need some work too... but this will be a whole new adventure with corresponding thread... In the meantime, I am thinking that I should probably try releasing the Lady K tub nut and perhaps drop out the transmission. I am still dithering a bit however...
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Post# 943494 , Reply# 20   6/14/2017 at 20:19 (2,499 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
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Did you remove the front panel from the 1-18?
Now that we know the 1-18 is a leaker... Let me know how your new Liberator dishwasher performs (with a name like that name, it should feel at home in St-Lib!). I did test this one and it didn't leak! But it didn't do much to clean my dishes and I had a hard time loading the lower rack properly. Maybe I just couldn't figure how to load it correctly... I am not too experienced with impeller dishwashers! |
Post# 943614 , Reply# 21   6/15/2017 at 15:15 (2,498 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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So, back to Dr. Frankenstein's bathroom in St-Lib....
I had a good whine to John Lefever today and he suggested I should remove the tub cover at least to see if anything had gotten jammed in there. I was convinced I'd wind up removing the tub too... |
Post# 943615 , Reply# 22   6/15/2017 at 15:23 (2,498 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I'll be jiggered.... I got the Lady to spin again!!
So while this is wonderful news, I can't help but ask myself "Why?". It seems odd that a machine would just stop spinning in the midst of the final rinse spin, then I thought of something... John had said it was pretty unlikely that an article of clothing could get between the tubs (actually that must be near impossible with a Whirlpool-designed washer from what I could see); I can't help but wonder if the culprit might be dog hair... That overgrowed pup of ours sheds like the Abominbal Snowman in Fort Lauderdale and our clothes are always well-coated. Never mind what Canyon's blankets are like when I toss them into the Lady for a refresh. Is it possible that there was a dog hair clog?? I've seen dishwasher pump impellers get clogged with human hair (don't want to imagine the "How?"...) Could the dog hair residue from the wash/rinse water have caused this problem??
In the meantime, I'm reassembling the Lady and will try a full tub drain and spin.
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Post# 943623 , Reply# 23   6/15/2017 at 16:18 (2,498 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 943641 , Reply# 24   6/15/2017 at 19:39 (2,498 days old) by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio)   |   | |
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the lights only flickered a little here. I knew you must be OK! Bill |
Post# 943647 , Reply# 25   6/15/2017 at 21:01 (2,498 days old) by chaskelljr2 (Washington, D. C.)   |   | |
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Looks like someone's got their 1965 Lady back. Congratulations on the repair. What was causing it not to spin if you don't mind me asking? --Charles-- |
Post# 943673 , Reply# 26   6/15/2017 at 22:46 (2,498 days old) by barcoboy (Canada)   |   | |
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...but why is it still trying to agitate in neutral? Even at full speed spin, if you look at the blur of the bottom fins of the agitator in the last video, you can see them "moving" back and forth slightly, which means the spin speed of the agitator is not staying constant, but varying slightly.
Is this normal for this vintage of machine? I've never seen other videos where this happens, except for one video where the tub was spinning while the machine was agitating half full of water, right after the guy had changed the drive belt (assuming it was due to incorrectly re-installing/re-aligning the transmission). |
Post# 943704 , Reply# 27   6/16/2017 at 05:25 (2,498 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 943709 , Reply# 28   6/16/2017 at 06:32 (2,498 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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barcoboy - the Lady Kenmore has always seemed to have some agitator movement while spinning - come to think of it the Inglis and the '51 Kenmore agitators 'twitch' a little while draining. I'll now have to hook the '56 Whirlpool up again to see what it does... LOL
Charles - I still am not sure why the tub froze up on me. My gut feeling is telling me that I may need to redo the bearings... I'll keep an eye on it for sure.
John, could the grease in the bearings have dried up on me?? |
Post# 943727 , Reply# 29   6/16/2017 at 08:27 (2,497 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Small-load wash test this morning was a success. What exactly happened last week is still a mystery; not sure if I am happy or not about no longer needing to haul laundry down to Ogden. Life is tough...
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Post# 952307 , Reply# 30   8/9/2017 at 09:46 (2,443 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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So The Lovely Lady of St-Liboire has been running normally for nearly 2 months since the June spin hissy fit but today, after washing a bedspread, the poor dear went out of balance on the rinse spin, then as the spin came to an end, locked up on me again.
I'm puzzled as to what did this a second time. I have a gut feeling the tub brake is 'sticking' somehow; I am not ruling out bearings but darn it, I redid them just 5 years ago (unless I did a really, really bad job of it...).
Is there something I am missing or overlooking?? Should I start picking a replacement washer for St-Lib?? LOL (There is a rebuilt '56 Whirlpool washer with matching dryer that is currently sitting idle in Ogden...) |
Post# 952317 , Reply# 31   8/9/2017 at 11:34 (2,443 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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Post# 952354 , Reply# 32   8/9/2017 at 15:49 (2,443 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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I love vintage appliances! They simply last forever, and are simple, compared to the appliances of today! I have a Lady Kenmore Portable Washer and Dryer I bought earlier this summer for $45.00 of of Craigslist. I did not spin or agitate when I tested it out, had a bad transmission? No. All I had to do was to add oil, and it began to agitate and spin again. One day I did a load of laundry in the Lady Kenmore Portable, and it still had water in the tub, and I was confused. Turns out the water pump went out The plastic pulley that screws in the water pump spindle stripped, and was free-spinning on the water pump spindle. I got a new water pump for the Lady Kenmore Portable, and installed it, but when I did a load of laundry in it, it began to leak water from the side of the tub, and the air dome is cracked:(, but at least it is fixable. I also need a new timer motor for the dryer, you can turn on the dryer, but you have remember to turn it off.
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Post# 952371 , Reply# 33   8/9/2017 at 17:40 (2,443 days old) by rpms (ontario canada)   |   | |
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Post# 952373 , Reply# 34   8/9/2017 at 17:55 (2,443 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 954369 , Reply# 35   8/24/2017 at 15:07 (2,428 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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In other words, I have taken over the upstairs guest bedroom in St-Lib to work on the non-spinning Lady Kenmore washer (no visitors until further notice, please)....
OK, so I was stumped by how this washer spun again for a short time, then quit. Unlike last time, I was unable to somehow trip the brake mechanism to get the tub to spin again. My theories were a badly damaged or broken plunger on the spin cam bar, a stuck or damaged basket drive, or...a bad transmission.
I figured I had to drop the transmission out in all cases, so I managed to move the Lady K from the bathroom into the bedroom and take her apart. This took me two days... I managed to hurt myself really badly tipping the machine on Tuesday. I need an assistant, daggnabit... LOL
The good news is that the transmission seems OK and I was able to make the spin cam bar plunger engage as it is supposed to.
However....
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Post# 954371 , Reply# 36   8/24/2017 at 15:13 (2,428 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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When I pulled out the transmission, the basket drive mechanism remained very convincingly in place...
Further, I could not budge that basket drive pulley. My guess is that when I did the re-bearing job, I did not seal or grease something properly and the subsequent abuse caused the basket drive tube to seize. I repeatedly kept saying a word that rhymes with 'duck' this afternoon. A lot...
I'll probably wind up replacing the basket drive tube (and I am guessing I'll need to redo the bearings...) but in the meantime, I am drawing a blank as to how remove the drive tube. I recall that Robert's '57 Lady K transmission had to be pounded out, taking drive tube and bearings with it, but I am wondering if this tube could somehow be salvaged if I can drive out carefully.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Post# 954380 , Reply# 38   8/24/2017 at 17:08 (2,428 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I thought I put in 'enough' oil, but I'm going to guess I didn't... I'll be letting the spin tube marinate in PB Blaster as soon as I can get some more, then I'll try Gordon's twist and pull technique.
The good news is I found a new bearing kit among my parts hoard in Ogden - like anyone will be surprised at that...
SO, who thinks I should bring the Blackstone to St-Lib as my 'backup' washer? LOL |
Post# 954387 , Reply# 40   8/24/2017 at 17:24 (2,428 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 956301 , Reply# 41   9/5/2017 at 16:56 (2,416 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Last Thursday, before I vanished down to Ogden for the long weekend, Phil came over to visit. With his help, we got the danged basket drive tube out of the Lady Kenmore washer. Getting old and weak sucks - I am grateful to have a friend like Phil!!
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Post# 956303 , Reply# 42   9/5/2017 at 17:07 (2,416 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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The good news - we didn't pound the bearings out along with the drive tube.
Having a fresh pair of eyes helped here - Phil noted the scarring on the upper section of the tube.
I did not document the re-bearing process of this washer when I did it, so I cannot be sure that the tube was not already scarred or discoloured when I re-installed it.
But what really caught Phil's eye was the 'ring o rust' on the center post. Funnily enough, it looks like it is about the same height as the discolouration on the basket drive tube... I am going to guess that this is where the sticking occured causing the lack of spin. However, I recall that the Inglis tube had a dark spot on it at about the same height.
So, I have to wonder why this happened. Is it possible there is some sort of a leak in the center post that got into the bearing and the drive tube? I'm going to give it a good cleaning tomorrow and I have some POR15 if needed.
Now the $64,000 question - is the bearing still OK? I will guess that I did not lubricate it properly... Also, I am thinking I should replace the basket drive tube - or can I just clean up the old one?
At least I know the LK can be repaired now. And I am starting to miss having at least 1 working washer in St-Lib.... LOL |
Post# 956306 , Reply# 43   9/5/2017 at 17:17 (2,416 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 958618 , Reply# 44   9/22/2017 at 17:06 (2,399 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Good news first! I got a new spin tube assembly (with drive pulley and brake yoke - bonus!!) and a new set of bearings. Thanks John!!
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Post# 958619 , Reply# 45   9/22/2017 at 17:07 (2,399 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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More good news, I rounded up the bearing installation tool.
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Post# 958620 , Reply# 46   9/22/2017 at 17:12 (2,399 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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However... I don't have the bearing extractor tool. I know a service technician in Stanstead who had one - he says he can't find it (and I believe him - his shop makes the expression "a dog's breakfast" sound neat and tidy).
Ffffffffffiddlesticks.
The search continues. Until then the laundry is being done in Ogden. Impromtu wash-in this weekend anyone??
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Post# 958624 , Reply# 47   9/22/2017 at 17:46 (2,399 days old) by potatochips ( )   |   | |
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I have an extractor, Paul! Would you like to borrow it? |
Post# 958628 , Reply# 48   9/22/2017 at 18:44 (2,399 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 958635 , Reply# 49   9/22/2017 at 19:13 (2,399 days old) by potatochips ( )   |   | |
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Sure thing Paul, I get home from work on Monday and I'll send it away! |
Post# 959461 , Reply# 52   9/27/2017 at 15:58 (2,394 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Mark, the upper bearing was scored leading me to believe that I made 2 big boo-boos: not replacing the spin tube and likely not applying enough lubricant... But some good news at last: I picked up the bearing extractor tool from a fellow who's father used to be in the appliance business! Better still I am probably going to be able to buy those tools at some point!!
So next week, Lady K will be under the knife. Lastly, I recall that the bearing installation process requires turbine oil and grease. I cannot for the life of me recall what kind of grease it was.... |
Post# 960395 , Reply# 53   10/3/2017 at 10:10 (2,388 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Lady K is resting after this morning's bearing extraction procedure. It was a success...
And for once, take note of this, I made the decision to replace BOTH bearings as I had the means to do so, even though the lower bearing did not seem to be so bad.
It's not a good picture, but look at how badly scored the upper bearing was! Lesson learned about not replacing the spin tube when one rebuilds a belt-drive Whirlpool/Kenmore/Inglis washer....
New bearings should be in shortly. |
Post# 960416 , Reply# 54   10/3/2017 at 13:12 (2,388 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Lady K is out of surgery and has regained her bearings....
I figured while the tub is out, it would be wise to clean up the center post and give it a coat of POR15. While that's drying, I'll see if I can muster up the strength to at least get the new spin tube and brake assembly onto the gearcase (thank you again, John!!!).
I just may be doing laundry in St-Lib again this week - good timing, too. Hubby arrives back from a conference in Japan tonight.
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Post# 960558 , Reply# 55   10/4/2017 at 11:40 (2,387 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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So I got the washer reassembled yesterday and when I tried it today....wait for it.... the dang-blasted thing wouldn't spin.
I have run into this before (about 3 times with the Inglis....) - so I tried previous 'remedies'. I made sure the clutch yoke spring was in the right place, made sure the drive belt was sufficiently tensioned, and loosened the gearcase mounts ever so slightly to realign the spin tube. None of the above seemed to do it.
I took the entire gearcase out to make sure it was seated correctly. That resulted in a weak, stuttery spin that is shown in the video attached:
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Post# 960559 , Reply# 56   10/4/2017 at 11:49 (2,387 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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It seems as if something is just not 'catching' as evidenced by the video taken of the basket drive slipping...
So, the $64,000 question is 'why'... Something that is bugging me is the fibre plate (shown on a newer basket drive assembly here but not the drive installed in the machine). The old basket drive brake plate was securely riveted to the brake plate (and forgive me, I am presuming the fibre disc is a brake) and I seem to hear something turning with a very slight scraping noise when I try to engage spin. Other observation, the basket drive pulley got fairly warm during the brief attempts I've made to get the washer to spin.
What could be going wrong here? Is some kind of adjustment to the brake assembly needed?
Should I bring the Blackstone back from Ogden so I have a working washer for the winter months??
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Post# 960563 , Reply# 57   10/4/2017 at 12:14 (2,387 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 960712 , Reply# 60   10/5/2017 at 07:31 (2,386 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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James, I remember seeing the sanding down of the tee-bearing on another restoration (by John when I got my '56 Whirlpool Imperial) but in that case, we had swapped transmissions and I think we just replaced the spin tube. With the Lady K, I got the complete basket drive assembly, so I wasn't sure that I'd need to do this.
Alan, I had been reviewing the Whirlpool/Kenmore service literature I have and I wondered if the basket clutch shaft needed some adjustment - I am just not sure how I'm going to get a ruler in there to measure the clearance.... LOL
So after groceries, I'll take another look-see.
Thanks for the suggestions!!!
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Post# 960739 , Reply# 61   10/5/2017 at 10:03 (2,386 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Great suggestions on checking the T bearing, as well as the clutch to pulley clearance. The sounds from the video suggest that the clutch continues to slip just enough to not fully grab on the spin pulley.
Another thought I had was to check which spin cam bar you have installed. When Whirlpool went to the smaller clutch around 1970 for the quick brake, the springs were stiffened as well, causing issues for the earlier non-hardened cam bars. The instruction sheet I have for a few NOS replacement basket drives come with a replacement hardened cam bar in case the basket drive is used on a pre-1970 machine. Ben |
Post# 960746 , Reply# 62   10/5/2017 at 11:37 (2,386 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Ben, I think you've hit the nail on the head.... The basket drive 'kit' included a new cam bar, but me, being me, thought, "Well mine ain't broke..." It probably won't hurt to swap it. I didn't have an instruction sheet with my basket drive kit - darn it.
So guess who's pulling the Lady's gearcase out (again) this afternoon? LOL |
Post# 960755 , Reply# 63   10/5/2017 at 12:23 (2,386 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)   |   | |
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I took a picture of the instructions for the new basket drive kit I had when I did my rebuild. I ended up just replacing the spin tube on the old basket drive and kept the kit as a spare but thought the instructions would help someone down the road. CLICK HERE TO GO TO 114jwh's LINK
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Post# 960757 , Reply# 64   10/5/2017 at 12:32 (2,386 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)   |   | |
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If you are taking the gearcase out anyway, check the t-bearing just in case. The bearing sits inside the spintube so even if you are replacing the whole basket drive, you still have a new spin tube. Good Luck Paul! Hope the 2nd time is the charm :) |
Post# 960768 , Reply# 65   10/5/2017 at 13:13 (2,386 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Thanks James! Since everything is out again I'll check it again.
I am pretty much convinced the new spin cam bar is going to do it... note the 'bump' in the middle of the new bar. I feel confident that this will raise the yoke assembly sufficiently to 'grab' the new style basket drive. I just hope I can securely attach the new rivet to the spin plunger!
So, one really does learn something new every day. Lessons learned here: when a part comes with 'accesories', install them and when in doubt -ask questions!
Now, who's still betting on the Blackstone (and there is a 1-18 wild card...)?
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Post# 960771 , Reply# 66   10/5/2017 at 13:17 (2,386 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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Post# 960840 , Reply# 67   10/5/2017 at 18:46 (2,386 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Paul, the bump in the middle only helps the cam bar stay in either the spin or neutral position, it does not contact the clutch control shaft.
It is not the tee bearing that needs sanding etc, do be sure the TB is properly supported on the agitator shaft, there are three different styles of TBs I don't know which yours has.
Did you try inserting the new spin Tube in the bearings once you got the bearings installed in the center-post?, it should insert easily and turn easily as well as move in and out.
If you like call me before you reassemble the machine so you don't have to do it a third time.
John L. |
Post# 960890 , Reply# 68   10/6/2017 at 06:48 (2,385 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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John, I'll be calling you this weekend for sure!
The good news - the spin tube did turn freely in the new bearings and pops out easily (3 times now.... LOL)
My dilemma now is that I cut off the spin cam plunger rivet to be able to change the cam bar (and full disclosure - I swear that the clutch yoke assembly moves higher with the new spin cam bar) - there was a new rivet included with the cam bar, but I'm up the creek as to how to attach the new rivet.
I'll load the Blackstone into the station wagon, nonetheless.... LOL
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Post# 960899 , Reply# 69   10/6/2017 at 08:22 (2,385 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)   |   | |
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It's just a tension clip/fastener you push onto the replacement cotter pin. A small nut driver can be used to push it onto the pin. It's pretty tight going on so it will hold and not vibrate off. |
Post# 960901 , Reply# 70   10/6/2017 at 08:56 (2,385 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 960908 , Reply# 71   10/6/2017 at 09:58 (2,385 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 962153 , Reply# 73   10/12/2017 at 14:08 (2,379 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Or "the further suffering of the Lady"...
The good news - found a 'speed nut' that worked with the new cam bar rivet. If anyone runs into this issue, it is a 1/8-inch diameter.
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Post# 962154 , Reply# 74   10/12/2017 at 14:19 (2,379 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Short answer.... not quite.
Upon reinstallation of the tub, and after the new cam bar rivet was secured, I did get the washer to spin. However, it was noisy as hell and the belt looked like it was getting chewed up. Not good.
I found the tub was binding when I tried to turn it by hand. Well, as Mark described above, I tried loosening the gearcase mounts to re-align the spin tube and agitator shaft (standard Whirlpool procedure). I also slackened the belt slightly. This resulted in no spin.
After I convinced Canyon I was not speaking in tongues, I tried further loosening of the gearcase mounting bolts, as suggested in the Whirlpool doctrine. Well, I got the basket turning a little easier. Spin was slllloooooowwww however.
The last thing I tried this afternoon was to adjust the nut on the basket clutch shaft. The machine seemed to be running a lot quieter but the tub started to spin, then spun out....
One thing I did notice was that when I did the initial noisy spin test, when I shut the machine off the tub came to a screeching halt, which it never, ever did before.
I am guessing there is some further adjustment needed here - my gut feeling is saying basket clutch shaft nut but if there is something I am overlooking, please do let me know. I am at the point where A: I'd like the guest bedroom back, B: I'd like the Kenmore working again, and C: I really, really need some kind of a functioning washer in St-Lib.
Rant over.... carry on... |
Post# 962157 , Reply# 75   10/12/2017 at 14:33 (2,379 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Post# 962159 , Reply# 76   10/12/2017 at 14:50 (2,379 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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I don't think so, but ya never know.... I haven't observed any trouble with the motor during agitation (like overheating or shorting). The wig-wag has tested fine and I have seen the cam plungers for spin and agitation pull up.
I have to get back to Ogden tomorrow, but when I get back, I think I'd better dive into that 1-18 in the garage!!
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Post# 962201 , Reply# 78   10/12/2017 at 19:52 (2,379 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 962254 , Reply# 80   10/13/2017 at 07:04 (2,378 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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That something somewhere is not sitting correctly - it makes sense that the bearing is a likely cause of the spin issues.
However, I really want a working washer in the house in St-Lib (where I don't have the choice of 9 mostly-working vintage washers like I do in Ogden!) so I think the Lady is going into 'dry dock' for a spell.
John, if you do come visit, please let me know - I'd welcome your assistance at this point. I think I may be getting too old and weak for this washer restoration stuff alone!!
And full disclosure, why I need a working washer so badly in St-Lib: as of November, I'm entering into a foray into the world of antiques, vintage and collectible items - as a potential store co-owner! But more on that later. In the meantime, I've got to take a run at a WC8 Frigidaire washer sitting in the garage in St-Lib next week.
This post was last edited 10/13/2017 at 07:57 |
Post# 971546 , Reply# 82   12/4/2017 at 18:38 (2,326 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)   |   | |
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Post# 971551 , Reply# 83   12/4/2017 at 19:13 (2,326 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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No, I decided to take a break back in October - we were about to leave on vacation and a certain Hubby was voicing concerns about the two non-working vintage washers in the St-Lib house so I moved the '66 Blackstone in to fill in for the Lady K. (Full disclosure, a 1978 Frigidaire Crown 1-18 is the other vintage washer giving me grief at this house)
I am going to get my sorry behind in gear on this after the Christmas season, though. I've gotten a lot of great advice as to what could be wrong and I am confident I'll get my turquoise Lady back into service again! If not, John Lefever will be getting a plane ticket in the New Year.... LOL |
Post# 971753 , Reply# 84   12/5/2017 at 16:23 (2,325 days old) by StrongEnough78 (California)   |   | |
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Post# 980572 , Reply# 85   1/30/2018 at 09:47 (2,269 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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It's a New Year and most resolutions still apply at this point in January, so I thought I should take another peek at my stubborn Lady K. The washer got more or less reassembled and shifted down to the basement back in October just before we left for a vacation in India. November was not a good one for Chris (his mother passed away) and I was actually helping run an antique store for a friend. Then came the holidaze... So 'The Naughty Lady of St-Liboire' just sat in the basement until today.
So on to today's findings.... When I tested the reassembled machine, I eventually got it to spin but as with previous tests, the spin was sluggish. So I thought I'd see what happened when the washer tub was out of the machine. This time, the spin tube began to turn immediately and it looks like it was running pretty fast....
So now I can't help but wonder if the drag I am seeing with the tub back in the machine could be due to a bad basket drive block... That's my first thought. I also wonder if there could be an issue with a misaligned centre post. I say that because this washer has seemed prone to getting out of balance since I redid the bearings the first time around and it did so a couple of times last summer before the darn thing stopped spinning. Am I off base here?
John L, I've got guest rooms ready in both houses... |
Post# 980605 , Reply# 86   1/30/2018 at 14:35 (2,269 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 980747 , Reply# 87   1/31/2018 at 13:38 (2,268 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Will probably be on my headstone...
So I figured I had nothing to lose by removing the gearcase from the Lady. The binding issue was still eating at me; examining the new basket drive and brake I was troubled by this new, thicker-looking brake pad.
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Post# 980748 , Reply# 88   1/31/2018 at 13:41 (2,268 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Now, one of the many suggestions which had been made was to adjust the height of the basket clutch shaft. It took a few tries...
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Post# 980750 , Reply# 89   1/31/2018 at 13:51 (2,268 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Holy crow.... It seems to be spinning more or less normally!!
I did 3 successive agitate and spin tests and all went well. The belt did not get chewed up (any more at least...) and stayed at a normal temperature. I think we're good to go here...
Now, I do still have a couple of things to do before any serious testing. I have to reinstall the three gearcase brackets and I have to make darned sure the pump hoses and drain sump trap have been firmly reattached. I figure I will do a bucket test of the machine before I go nuts and haul the Lady back up to the bathroom alcove. Of course I will have to haul the '66 Blackstone back down to the basement. Sigh... I need more washer and dryer hookups in St-Lib. But we won't tell Hubby....
So, I think I may be ready to swap drain pumps on the 56 Norge Timeline - and a brand new pump should be waiting for me in Vermont this weekend. Stay tuned - turquoisedude may just have his groove back! |
Post# 980755 , Reply# 90   1/31/2018 at 14:20 (2,268 days old) by ken (NYS)   |   | |
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Post# 980773 , Reply# 91   1/31/2018 at 17:04 (2,268 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 980774 , Reply# 92   1/31/2018 at 17:07 (2,268 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 980787 , Reply# 93   1/31/2018 at 19:46 (2,268 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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OMDDBJ !!!!!!!!!
So glad that's sorted out. Out of all the Kenmore Line, that model in that colour is my Favorite looking model. My next would be the '59 Touch Tab auto rapid advance timer. Last would be the 57 or 58 with the Prego RotoSwirl. Love Kenmore/Whirlpool. Always a go to especially for the sound. Do you still have the Electra coldspot66 and I got for ya ? I have dwindled so much I have a "Empty Nest " with only 5 machines. : ) |
Post# 980795 , Reply# 94   1/31/2018 at 21:03 (2,268 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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