Thread Number: 72457  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Samsung PowerFoam/EcoBubble
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Post# 957502   9/14/2017 at 08:59 (375 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)        

So, Samsung is advertising better stain removal and better results at lower washing temperatures with their PowerFoam (for US) and EcoBubble (Europe and probably the rest of the world)

It creates a foam before the water has submerged the clothes with water (looks pretty much like something that usually would cause a suds lock). Since I grew up with the "foam doesn't mean cleaner clothes" concept I'm wondering why..?

What's everyone's thoughts on this?




Post# 957503 , Reply# 1   9/14/2017 at 09:19 (375 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

The idea was that the foam would mean disolved detergent and quicker saturation.

In theory, that's a sond concept.

They used a recirculation pump designed to mix water and detergent and added distribution tumbles.

However they didn't use the recirculation pump in the more logical and effective way of spraying the clothes.

It helped, but wasn't "the thing".

Now, Hotpoint with their "Direct Injection" tehnology basicly copied that. Electrolux took the whole thing one step further by using 3 pumps in total (drain, recirculation, mixing), which appears to work really well.

See here:

Post# 957519 , Reply# 2   9/14/2017 at 11:15 (375 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)        

Yeah I think the way AEG does it makes more sense.. Thanks for the video! It was interesting :) 

Post# 957543 , Reply# 3   9/14/2017 at 14:18 (375 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
AEG Lavamat 8000

rolls_rapide's profile picture
That recirculation jet looks decidedly weak.

Why don't manufacturers use decent strength pumps?

Post# 957547 , Reply# 4   9/14/2017 at 15:02 (375 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
For what?

All that is doing is adding water flow. Gravity and tumbling cause enough pressure anyways.

Post# 957549 , Reply# 5   9/14/2017 at 15:22 (375 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
The Miele W1 machines look as though they have a much more powerful recirculation jet.

Post# 957550 , Reply# 6   9/14/2017 at 15:23 (375 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

Just a different angle and outlet nozzle shape, doubt there is much pressure difference.

Post# 957551 , Reply# 7   9/14/2017 at 15:27 (375 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I wonder what the wash results and time saving would be if manufacturers fitted a dishwasher recirculating pump to washing machines...?

Post# 957574 , Reply# 8   9/14/2017 at 18:33 (375 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
I currently...

Have a Samsung eco bubble machine.

This is my second one (the first one - the top of the range 12kg one with a colour screen; broke in 7 months).

The bubble thing is a gimmick in my opinion. Yes the Sasmungs clean very well (but so did my LG steam washer).

One thing though, living in a very soft water area like I do, I have to be VERY judicious with detergent dosage (as on this eco bubble I have, unlike the first one I had, you can't turn the eco bubble function off).

Post# 957605 , Reply# 9   9/15/2017 at 02:58 (374 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I like Panasonic's system: dump some water anf detergent into thw outer tub, spin the drum - foam and mostly dissolved detergent. The disadvantage, however, is that Panasonic has to use a motorized sump valve to prevent detergent from being pushed into the drain pump area.

Some manufacturers premix detergent with water and spray that onto the clothes (TOL Whirlpool US and Panasonic in Asia, for example).

Post# 957615 , Reply# 10   9/15/2017 at 04:54 (374 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Motorized sump valve

Don't think so. I mean, we had one for a short period (VG4-generation). The recirculation pump is attached to the drain pump filter housing, so water will be pulled through there anyways.

Post# 957630 , Reply# 11   9/15/2017 at 06:46 (374 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
The motorised sump valve was only used on the Chinese made, top-end Panasonics.

I'm sure that the Vestel (Turkey) Panasonics had an open sump.

The Gorenje (Slovenia) Panasonics certainly have an open sump. The way they operate is to flush the detergent from the drawer, to the tub, whilst a long continuous tumble takes place, water filling all the time. When the water level is achieved, a distribution speed tumble allows the detergent to be mixed. Normal tumbles back and forth for several minutes. After a short time, the recirculation pump activates for 30 seconds, with normal tumbling. Then it goes back to normal tumbling alone. This pattern repeats a few times, whilst the water is cold.

When temperature is reached (30 or 40 deg C), the recirculation pump activates again a couple more times, but in this case the pump stays on for a couple of minutes at a time.

The recirculation pump appears not to activate with 60 deg temps.

Post# 957650 , Reply# 12   9/15/2017 at 11:32 (374 days old) by Maytag85 (SoCal )        

maytag85's profile picture
My Maytag does not need a power bubble feature, it has a Power Fin agitator instead.

Post# 957652 , Reply# 13   9/15/2017 at 11:56 (374 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Personally, I am not a fan of foam generation - I think it is detrimental to the wash action.

I do like the concept of mixing the detergent in the tub though. Whether the detergent foams up or not, largely depends upon the type of detergent and manufacturer.

I've found ACDO and Daz '65 Yrs' powders, and 2017 Aldi Almat tablets to be low foaming.

Lidl's Formil powder is quite foamy, along with Tesco Bio tablets, and Aldi's 2015 Almat tablets.

I've found Surf 'White' liquid to be hellishly sudsy even with a spot of the stuff.

Ariel liquid and Persil liquid seem to be less sudsy.

Post# 957657 , Reply# 14   9/15/2017 at 12:25 (374 days old) by Maytag85 (SoCal )        

maytag85's profile picture
There is something called "Rosalie's Zero Suds" and I heard it works quite well. I don't know how much it costs, but it must work well. I don't use a lot of detergent in my Maytag, but if something is heavily soiled, I use a little more, but not much. Sometimes there will be a lot of suds at the beginning of the wash cycle, but at the end before the first spin, all of the suds will be gone (the soil in clothes can eat up the suds)

Post# 957662 , Reply# 15   9/15/2017 at 13:13 (374 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Suds/foam is mostly air, yes?  Doesn't logically follow that it has much cleaning power.

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