Thread Number: 72556
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Tell me more about this washer! |
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Post# 958615   9/22/2017 at 16:43 (2,379 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 958616 , Reply# 1   9/22/2017 at 16:47 (2,379 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 958622 , Reply# 2   9/22/2017 at 17:27 (2,379 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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Was part of Hotpoint, until Whirlpool aquired Hotpoint. Pretty basic, simple, cheap machines. Typical sealed tub (no bearing exchange possible), usual life span of 2-4 years. But for 200-300€ machines, pretty ok. Good wash and rinse perfomance, though on the slower and less flexible side. |
Post# 958623 , Reply# 3   9/22/2017 at 17:43 (2,379 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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They wash quite well but they’re made to a price and a very low one. They’re also rather noisy! |
Post# 958626 , Reply# 4   9/22/2017 at 18:31 (2,379 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 958632 , Reply# 5   9/22/2017 at 18:58 (2,379 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Indesit appliances are not sold in USA to best of ones knowledge. For a start there is that pesky 208v-240v at 50hz power problem.
Now you *might* find something on fleaPay, CL or whatever, lord knows have seen plenty of European laundry appliances in such places. But most if not all were brought to these shores by people who moved house and for reasons only known to them packed up their washers and or dryers as well. Only to find even with a voltage converter (if no 208v-240v power is available) the change in frequency to 60hz can be enough to cause machine either to malfunction or simply not work. IIRC many new electronic washing machines and dryers have internal sensors that are designed to limit damage from "improper" power sources. Thus running a washer that needs 50hz at 60hz can trigger such protections. Being as all this may you *can* have anything you wish shipped from Europe to the USA, long as you are willing to pay. It would have to go via freight and don't fancy the chances of it arriving totally undamaged. There is the other rub; if the machine does become damaged and or needs repair you may be on your own. Since Indesit isn't sold in USA there isn't an established parts/repair network. If you want a similar but less electronic Indesit washer, but something sold in USA, search out Malber washers and dryers of old. They were made by the same company (Merloni Elettrodomestici ), and occupied a similar market; BOL to MOL washers and dryers that were relatively durable (if not abused) for what they were. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indesit_Co... |
Post# 958634 , Reply# 6   9/22/2017 at 19:06 (2,379 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Would any of these come close to that machine (same manufacture) or a far cry?
www.eastwestintl.com/showprod.asp... The on board heaters with boil wash are extremely attractive. |
Post# 958637 , Reply# 8   9/22/2017 at 19:22 (2,379 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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First two are AEG units but made by Electrolux, and not of the Oko-Lavamat or Lavatherm of old like mine or those others have. You can purchase AEG units from places like this: alno-usa.com/appliances#aeg... Having looked inside my AEG washer it is made for 50hz/60hz power, you'd want to make sure any unit purchased is designed to run on North American 208v-240v at 60hz power. Have known the above linked website of old and seems they are geared to selling North American appliances modified for export to overseas. How they get there is another matter since company itself does not offer international shipping. My AEG Oko-Lavamat will do a boil wash, but rarely use that setting just as hardly bothered with same on the Miele. Have found using a good European detergent with bleach such as Persil (powder or Megaperls) gives excellent results at 140F or even 120F. Personally if it is a boil washing capable washer you're after, I'd go with an older Miele washer. There are plenty of them out there and often going for relative little money. Since Miele has an established parts/repair in USA you wouldn't be stuck if something goes wrong. Purchase a Candy unit from the above website may be all very well, but what happens when or if it needs repair/parts? |
Post# 958683 , Reply# 9   9/23/2017 at 05:10 (2,379 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Looking at the machines on offer at the East West International Company, it wouldn't surprise me if they have an Australian, Sout African or so trade partner. I guess it would make sense to import huge quantities from one country with 220V. A lot of the machines on that site, especially V-axis toploaders, are not available in Europe.
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Post# 958878 , Reply# 11   9/24/2017 at 10:00 (2,377 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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The site is geared with the intention of purchasing 230 volt appliances for those moving abroad. Some marine applications as well where 240 volts is present. The idea is you take them with you once they arrive. Also I think very large orders can be shipped internationally. However, some folks like those 3000 watt griddles and 2,400 watt hair dryers in their home ;) If any US folks ever try a real high wattage kettle, iron, or cooking appliance... you don't go back, thats for certain.
In any case I am thrilled that they offer stuff that you can't even get in Europe. I did not know that, but now that I do I feel blessed. Does anyone know who makes those Multi-star washers? |
Post# 958883 , Reply# 12   9/24/2017 at 11:06 (2,377 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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All over the USA; we have some here in NYC.
www.bondyexport.com/category/cata... Discovered them ages ago (maybe before joining this wonderful group or shortly afterwards) when seeking 220v washing machine. Best as one can tell these places all cater to overseas markets. That is as mentioned persons already in USA and moving house. It is *VERY dear to ship large appliances overseas. It almost always means via ship which involves tons of paperwork. Way around this of course is for diplomatic, military and corporate postings where someone else is picking up the moving tab. Then you often get a crate or something that you can pack up your household goods and the lot gets shipped overseas. This is also how all those wonderful European appliances we see on this side of pond end up. Though it was more common when people came by ship instead of air. From what one understands ocean liners offered generous cargo allowances for passengers. You could even bring back an automobile if that was up your street. At least one fantastic car went down with the Andrea Doria. www.bondyexport.com/planning-your... Am given to understand that those moving house to Israel often want American appliances, especially large capacity washing machines and dryers. This likely explains the Speed Queen appliances on offer. www.whodoyou.com/biz/1885... Indians seem to dominate this 220v electronics market, apparently there is also a large market for persons wishing to take such things back to India. www.desijacksonheights.com/applia... Do not know if any of these dealers sell appliances that will work in the USA and or even if they come with any sort of contractual warranty. The fact they are all 50hz alone means they aren't designed to work in USA. Wonder what Alliance Laundry would say if you did purchase one and it had problems. |
Post# 958899 , Reply# 13   9/24/2017 at 13:04 (2,377 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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Until today I can't understand why USA and 90% of Brazil uses 110V. 220V is way better for everything. It's safer, it's more reliable, It does things much faster and in some cases it saves electricity. |
Post# 958906 , Reply# 14   9/24/2017 at 14:02 (2,377 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 958918 , Reply# 15   9/24/2017 at 16:34 (2,377 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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As we've gone through at nearly every discussion about voltage; not all American homes/apartments have a "panel" with 220v power coming in, and upgrading (when possible) can be an expensive undertaking. Miele found this out for years trying to push their 220v washing machines with only limited success. A good portion of the time deal killer was the voltage. That and the perceived small capacity.
Here in NYC we have some of the oldest housing stock in the country. You have multi-family housing from our very best homes on Fifth Avenue to Lower East Side tenements that went up in the early part of last century, if not before. In many instances their electric capacity is what was installed to suit, and has not grown. Know plenty of persons living in apartments with around 80amp (2 twenty amp fuses, and two 15 amp) total amperage. Only reason fuse box was up graded to two twenty amps is one is for fridge (in kitchen), the other for AC (outlet near window). In many instances it isn't even just a matter of running more power from the main box in basement/meter. But rather increased supply must come in from the mains outside. That involves ConEdison, a licensed electrician, breaking up sidewalk, installing new panel in apartment, running the line up from basement...... Fast forward to today much new construction and major renovations are getting 220v lines because people are demanding washing machines and dryers. It is not always possible (or wanted) to run a gas line, so people go with electricity. Besides many of the "compact" European dryers do not come in gas anyway (Miele no longer sells gas dryers in USA), so again you are going to need 220v power. The other reason is one we've discussed before; post WWII much of Europe was rebuilding housing and infrastructure that was damaged. Decisions were made to go with 208v-240v at 50hz (yes, I know) power as the standard. As mod cons had not expanded greatly (and even if they had large numbers likely would have been damaged or destroyed during the war), it was easy to mandate that switch. Across the pond USA saw no damage to infrastructure and basically simply carried on. As the expansion of electricity continued to rural areas that didn't have they got the same service as elsewhere. Also as we've discussed one of the prime reasons for all that "high power" in European homes was for washing machines and dishwashers to heat their own water. American homes largely relied upon central hot water from a tank. Energy for heating could be provided by any of the "cheap" but (then) plentiful natural resources (coal, natural gas, oil), and or if you lived in certain areas where electricity was basically being given away. Long story short the die was cast and don't see it changing in any large way. People and or businesses that need 208v-240v power can usually get it if they wish. |
Post# 958930 , Reply# 17   9/24/2017 at 18:32 (2,377 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 958966 , Reply# 20   9/25/2017 at 03:38 (2,377 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@suberband:
"220V is safer?? Thomas, all things being equal, a shock from 240V to ground carries twice the amperage of a shock from 120V to ground. So 120V has the safety advantage. I don't see why 240V is more reliable than 120V." From a shock standpoint without GFCI/RCD, 240 volts tends to kill more often. Because of ohms law, any electricity flowing through the body will dissipate 4 times the heat at 240 volts than at 120 volts. Burns are more sever, and the higher current increases the odds of going into the "no let go" range. "The North American system is elegant, I think. 240V, as the potential difference between two 120V legs, is routinely supplied by the power company. Appliances needing less amperage can run on 120V, with less shock hazard than 240V. The problem is availability of 240V within buildings." In most cases the shock hazard is about the same for North American 240 because most shocks are line to ground giving only 120 volts across the body. One area where I can think of 240 volts being safer than 120 is during an open neutral event. At 240 volts an open neutral in North America will not cause over voltages, which have been known to cause fires. In countries with 230 volts single phase, that risk is eliminated within the structure's wiring. ......... 400 hertz. While that would result in much smaller transformers, the reactive losses of transmission lines will be far greater. Motors will much smaller as mentioned- but run faster, making a lot of applications require a gear box. From a paper I have, it mentioned 133Hz and other high frequencies back in the day were stalling the development of induction motors. I can copy and paste it here if ok with the site rules. |
Post# 958967 , Reply# 21   9/25/2017 at 03:40 (2,377 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 958968 , Reply# 22   9/25/2017 at 04:39 (2,377 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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There are three European designed models for the American market on Whirlpool's website:
www.whirlpool.com/laundry... www.whirlpool.com/laundry/washer... www.whirlpool.com/laundry/washer... There are matching heatpumt dryers for the first two models: www.whirlpool.com/laundry... www.whirlpool.com/laundry/dryers... |
Post# 958995 , Reply# 24   9/25/2017 at 06:25 (2,377 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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Very simply------MORE people are KILLED off 120V in the US than from other sources!!!!120V IS LETHAL---DON'T FORGET IT!!!!!! |
Post# 958997 , Reply# 25   9/25/2017 at 06:29 (2,377 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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Again for 400Hz-yes-transmission of this is less efficient than 50 or 60 Hz.If the facility uses the 400 Hz or "High Cycle" power as electricians call it-it is converted at the site.Older days motor gensets-newer SS converters. |
Post# 959024 , Reply# 29   9/25/2017 at 10:12 (2,376 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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The faulty range hood shows why grounding is so important, even with RCDs. |
Post# 959148 , Reply# 30   9/26/2017 at 00:15 (2,376 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Back when I worked for Goldstar (LG) in Alabama building TV's I made a connection across my heart from the test cable in my left hand to something live inside the TV with my right hand....they were plugged in on the assembly line with their backs off so we could adjust them. I was the color/tint guy and had to stick a clip inside to switch some things around. I blacked out for a second or two. I remember feeling the hair on my neck stand up. I was standing and the shock made me lean backwards which broke the "circuit". It made me feel weird after but it didn't hurt! I really think it caused a cardiac arrhythmia for a brief moment and knowing what I know about the heart now after working in cardiology for over 12 years. |
Post# 959152 , Reply# 31   9/26/2017 at 00:46 (2,376 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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400Hz vacuums-In the US its ProTeam,and NSS(National Super Service) come to mind for 400Hz aircraft vacuums. |
Post# 959212 , Reply# 34   9/26/2017 at 07:59 (2,376 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 959236 , Reply# 35   9/26/2017 at 10:15 (2,375 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 959239 , Reply# 36   9/26/2017 at 10:40 (2,375 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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Had 3 service calls on ours in 3 years time. |
Post# 959298 , Reply# 37   9/26/2017 at 15:58 (2,375 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 959300 , Reply# 38   9/26/2017 at 16:08 (2,375 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 960334 , Reply# 40   10/3/2017 at 00:54 (2,369 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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A circuit breaker cannot trip fast enough to save you--Common sense will!ANY of the power supply voltages discussed here are DANGEROUS and LETHAL. |
Post# 960352 , Reply# 42   10/3/2017 at 03:39 (2,369 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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I was perusing Shpock a boot sale app the other day and came across this Siemens Vario perfect washer.
It would seem to be a relatively unused machine as its got no mould and is in lovely condition I have not tested it out yet as need to bring it home and put a UK plug on it as its got a German one as it was brought over by some military family who bought a house with a integrated washer so it has sat in a garage unused. Now the reason I got it was I like to have a spare washer around due to people I know who ask if I have one to sell/loan or to use while fixing theirs. So as you can see it is in its mother tongue but its so simple to use the only button I am not sure of is " Knitter schutz " Oh and for the grand sum of £20 Austin This post was last edited 10/03/2017 at 04:06 |
Post# 960353 , Reply# 43   10/3/2017 at 03:42 (2,369 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 960356 , Reply# 44   10/3/2017 at 03:53 (2,369 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 960404 , Reply# 45   10/3/2017 at 11:07 (2,368 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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"1) the change of a fire due to overload is much lower. (its more difficult to overload a 220V circuit)"
Thats what circuit breakers are for. They disconnect long before the wire itself is hot enough to start a fire. Second because 240 volt circuits can carry twice the power, they will run twice as many lights and/or receptacles. No electrician will limit a 3,600 watt residential circuit to 1,800. Also code requires 3va per foot minimum when determining how many general use circuits, so a 2,000sqft home could either be wired with 4 120 volt 15 amp circuits, 3 120 volt 20amp circuits OR 2 240 volt 15 amp circuits... "2) The shock itself is dangerous (or twice dangerous), but safety devices, like circuit breakers, DR, etc have a minimal (but existent) change to go off faster than 110V, exactly because of the higher voltage. So ok, the shock itself is worse, but it may last a fraction of second less. and it can be the difference between life and death." Typical shock currents are in the milli-amp range as well as fatal levels. 1 amp is considered very lethal. To trip any residential breaker you need to go above the handle rating, and to trip the breaker instantaneously you need at least 10 to 20x the handle rating. Which means if a person being shocked is passing 18 amps the breaker will probably never open, they would need to pass 25 amps to trip a 15 amp breaker in 60-90 seconds, and 150 to 300 amps to trip the breaker in a fraction of a second. 150 to 300amps for a fraction of a second passing through a person's body would cause severe, fatal burns. There is a graph I can post which shows the duration of shock vs magnitude the body can tolerate to a certain point. |
Post# 960408 , Reply# 46   10/3/2017 at 11:23 (2,368 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Here is the shock duration vs magnitude curve taken from IEC/TR-61200-413 report. Note that we are talking mill-amps, not amps and mill-seconds, not seconds. The various zones/bonds are explained in the next linked picture. In other words, just 1 amp for a fraction of a second will cause serve burns.
And here is the curve in color: www.google.com/searchQUES... |
Post# 960409 , Reply# 47   10/3/2017 at 11:25 (2,368 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 960411 , Reply# 48   10/3/2017 at 12:10 (2,368 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 960413 , Reply# 49   10/3/2017 at 12:21 (2,368 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 960469 , Reply# 50   10/3/2017 at 18:22 (2,368 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 960535 , Reply# 51   10/4/2017 at 05:25 (2,368 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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