Glad both my sister and I have 2017 sets! Employed the couldn't-be-easier lid switch hack on both washers. Wonder if the 2018s will have a neutral drain, as do SQ's in other parts of the globe?

Improvements I'd like to see on SQ top-loading washers:

1) Separate temperature for soak/prewash and main wash cycles. I like to soak loads of heavily-stained kitchen whites in lukewarm water, then wash in hot. Can't do that automatically with current SQs.

2) Detergent dispenser. This would come in handy when using the soak/prewash options. FAQ at the SQ website said, "Since the machine spins out water from soaking but does not rinse, there is enough detergent left in the clothes for the main wash."  Really?  Why, then, is there almost no detergent left in the rinse after the first spin of a regular cycle? Face it; one needs to return to the washer to add a second dose when machine advances to wash fill.

3) Timed bleach and fabric softener dispensers. Bleach should be added the last 4 minutes of the wash portion of a cycle; not during the soak/prewash or at the start of the cycle.  Those stain-eating enzymes in today's detergent need time to work before bleach is introduced.  Currently, you can't use fabric softener if you choose soak/prewash options because it will be dispensed into the main wash water.  Likewise, softener is wasted if you choose an automatic 2nd rinse, because it would have been dispensed during the first rinse.

Was impressed that SQ added cycle flexibility and other cycle-oriented features to their series 9 machines a couple of years ago.  Unfortunately, they didn't add the infrastructure (so to speak) to support those features.

Eugene, I have a possible solution to the detergent dispensing issue with using soak/prewash and then programmed to go into the main wash.  Maytag offered a solution back in the day when they first offered this feature.  What about using the FS dispenser as dispenser for liquid detergent for the main wash?  Although I'm not sure the FS cup could be removed for easy cleaning as was the case for Maytags.

I think John has already stated the new 2018 models will also do a neutral drain like is done in other parts of the globe.   

We are going to service training on these in the next two weeks and will report back what we learn.

I am hoping for neutral drain as we are running quit a few service calls on the current TL machines with out of balance and machine walking complaints when users use too much water for the load being washed and the load goes out of balance, this was always a big part of the vibration complaints we got with MT DC machines.

I do hope they do not go to a lid lock, consumers do not like lid locks.

I would like to see in the new TL washers, dual action agitators, neutral drain and slightly bigger holes in the bottom of the wash basket, Porcelain tops on W&Ds on high end models, and better dispensers for bleach and detergent and maybe detergent as Eugene mentioned.

Overall it will be interesting, I have said for years that I would never have any interest in owning a current SQ TL washer, it is simply too crude, it is better than a MTDC washer in several important aspects, but the class act is a SQ FL washer, the FL SQ has over twice the life expectancy and just does a much better job.

If the MT DC washer was still in production and offered a 5 year full warranty it would cost every bit of $1000.00

John L.

Bigger holes in the bottom of the tub diffidently improve performance in terms of getting rid of heavy sediment, but can be a mixed blessing as things like bobby pins can get through if they are too large.

When GE came out with the replacement for the FF washers they had huge holes in the bottom of the plastic wash basket, and compared to the FF spin drain [ and grit&lint redepositing machines ] these new neutral drain GE washers were a huge improvement, customers loved the fact they finally had lint and streak free clothing [ GE service manuals are full of comments about the problems they had with lint and streaking complaints they had with FF washers ] GE redesigned the hole pattern in their wash baskets in the late 60s to try and cope with this problem [ they ELIMINATED most of the holes the lower half of the basket side wall ] .

The dual action was the biggest improvement in conventional agitator washers in the history of agitator washers, they improved capacity, they improved turn over and best of all reduced clothing wear and damage. It goes without saying that the Load-Sensor agitator in DC MT washers was by far the best and most effective agitator MT ever put in an automatic washer.

Note; Pumkina I will be glad to answer some of your good questions if you put a name in your profile and a year you were born.

John L.

Hi Chet, I really dough that SQ TL washers will go to an impeller, But who knows, want to make a bet ?

I am not certain when GE went to the very large holes in the bottom of the plastic wash tub, but I have one [ super capacity dual action agitator ] now in the shop that we are restoring for the museum that has them, I guess you are correct if you think they did not have them at first, why don't you try to find out when they made this change and why? I never remember seeing an early one with small holes and we were putting transmissions in the early T models left and right, GE was giving out transmissions to anyone that would install them for the first 7 years of washer ownership.

I know they reverted to smaller holes because of pump clogging problems because the large holes allowed too much heavy sediment to settle into the tub drain hose and clog the drain pump.

Duel action agitators greatly improve turn over of large loads and therefore allow more laundry to be washed and increase water efficiency, CRs even called them the biggest advance in top loading washers in over 25 years in the early 80s.

No I have never seen them in commercial TL washers because they are so effective that manufactures do not want to encourage overloading and they are one additional thing that can wear out. [ top load washers are pretty much dead in commercial use now anyway ]

I can and almost always wash 10-12 pairs of my work jeans [ size 32W 34-36 I ] in a WP SC DD washer, A SQ will barely turn over this load and when I have tried loads like this you can see that some of the jeans are visibly beat up from the agitator and a standard large capacity MT [ well I won't go there ]

John L.

Cool Malcolm, well it looks like the clunky old transmission is gone, I would guess that the machine will operate more like a GE hydro-wave now.

Anyone that wants one of the old style SQ TLers better get off your ass and buy it fast.

We were warned a few months ago that the current TL washers were going to be in short supply toward the end of the year.

John L.

but I dream of Speed Queen really embracing top loader tradition, and bringing back the suds saver. I can even imagine the extra button on the touch panel: "Reuse Wash Water" or something like that.

While I dream the impossible dream, I might as well add the dream for old time colors. I'm so tired of current appliance colors, and yearn for, say, a bright, sunny yellow.

I've never seen a suds saver washer in person here in TN or AL either.  I remember reading about them in the Sears catalog but that's all.

Hi Barry, the new SQ TL washers will have neutral drain and will leave a lot less lint and crap in the clothing.

I don't know how anybody can look a a neutral drain TL perforated basket and think that all the dirty just drains THROUGH the clothing, LOOK at what is actually happening, the clothing is suspended in the water as the drain starts, the water level goes down slightly faster in the outer tub. 90% of the washer is leaving through the side holes of the wash basket carrying lint and  dirt with it. { this system is not perfect, but far better than the alternative ]

Same washer spin drain: everything starts spinning, clothes are heavier that water, clothes get pushed to the sides of the wash basket from centrifugal force, over 1/2 of all dirty water is forced under pressure THROUGH your clean clothing forcing your CLEAN clothing to become a gaint lint and grit filter.

This phenomenon has been proved again and again, every manufacturer that ever built Spin Drain TL Perforated Basket machines had problems with lint redisposing and streaking of clean clothing, you can read in the service manuals and see the things they did to the design of the machines to try to minimize this affect. [ you can read the thread hear about the guy in Pennsylvania with his linting problems that they had when his WP built DD washer stopped neutral draining, and how he solved the problem ]

Fact; every TL washer manufacturer who had a machine that was capable of doing a ND DID SO, the only reason SD washers were ever built is because they were CHEAPER to build as they did not have to do another complicated function. [ every TL washer built World Wide will soon be Neutral Drain 98.9% are ND now ]

Hi John, Suds-Savers where the water was stored in a separate tub really worked very well and made a lot of sense.

First since you would almost always start with HOT water you want it to cool somewhat for the next load or two, and having the water sit in the laundry tub for 20 minutes or longer really let the heavy soil settle in the bottom of the sink [ anyone that has ever used a SS can tell you that you always end rinsing this soil down the drain between every load.

Also the better WP-KM SS washers that had the great Self-Cleaning lint filters trapped a lot of lint during the wash and rinse parts of the cycle and automatically pumped this lint down the rinse drain hose, so it did not SAVE the lint.

These are great improvements on using the water over and over in a WW, people that had these WP. KM,  SS washers really loved them, which is part of the reason that WP-KM sold more than 90% of all the SS automatic washers ever sold. In the neighborhood I live in literally almost every house had a KM SS washer when I was a kid, and one neighbor after another was really upset when they eventually had to replace these washers and could not get another SS washer.

I think that most other manufactures only built and sold SS washers because Kenmore and Whirlpool forced them to because many customers wanted this feature.

When buying a new KM washer say in 1968, paying the $10 for the SS option saved enough money in the 8-12 years the washer was likley to last in a family of four essentially gave you a FREE AUTOMATIC washer compared to your poor neighbor with a Non-SS washer [ imagine if there was a $100 option on a new car in 1968 that saved enough money to pay you back the complete cost of owning the car, EVERYONE and their brother would have bought that $100 option. As with many thrifty educated people things like SS washers helped many consumers to become more wealthy than their neighbors.

John L.

Hi Chet

I would Like To see a GE FF do a neutral drain.

You are correct that a lid lock eliminates having a tub break and probably saves money building a machine although it often increases problems, the trash brands like WH and WCI started using lid locks early on.

I certainly do not agree with the rest of your analysis on spin drain vs Neutral Drain TL washer, and problem is you have no credibility as we don't have any idea if you have ever seen, worked on, or have any first hand knowledge about washing machines.

At this point it is up to you to prove your ideas as I have seen a few hundred real life examples to prove my points, including every major American manufacturer of TL washers putting this problem in print, and all of them trying to take steps to address consumer complaints about excessive linting related to trying to spin drain a washer full of water and clothing.

Maytag even put in their advertising how much cleaner your clothing will be when they were promoting their Norge-Tag washers compared their DC machines, because the way the NT spun and drained out the dirty water as it was not spun out though the clothing nearly as much.

One of my favorite signs here at work says,

                                           I Would Agree With You, But Then We Would Both Be Wrong

John L.

As far as I know they are still in business.

www.staber.com/washingmachines...

If you're putting stickers on products that say "Do not spin dry dogs, cats, birds..." then your problem is the legal system. An element of stupidity has inhabited any group or generation you'd care to name. For every email you receive that bitches about having to cut two zip-ties, there are many you don't hear from who understand why the zip-ties need to be there.

"People of my generation are often more swayed by emotion than logic and facts by comparison to previous generations." This is actually far more true of Baby Boomers than Generation Z.

Certainly we can find common ground in this: Disdain for the next generation has always existed.

Is a great warranty on a home washer, and I give MT credit for responding to the heavy challenge that SQ is causing MT.

WP-MT should offer a standard 5 Y P&L warranty on ALL W&Ds costing over $800 if they really want to respond to SQs challenge.

I feel that is time for a major manufacturer like WP to launch a campaign emphasizing quality home appliances like WP did in the early 70s, doing so is the only way WP can stand up to the on slot of foreign appliances, WP has the infrastructure to do this.

More than anything else consumers want their major appliances to work and not need expensive early repairs and replacement.

John L.

 Personally Whirlpool should offer the 5 year on all their none BOL models. 

I'd rather see it on the whole line.

If they need to market something cheap with shorter warranty, it seems like they have brand names which they can use (e.g., Roper).

Hi Robert, for one thing no manufacturer would ever offer a choice on such a thing, for another explain how a SD works better under ANY laundry or water condition ?

For the 100th time. NO WASHER MANUFACTURER WHOSE MACHINE COULD DO A NEUTRAL DRAIN DID NOT USE A NEUTRAL DRAIN, now or ever.

John L

Reply #89: Who---besides the military, possibly---would have the money to install a bunch of new SQ top-loaders, then remove them less than two months later over the issue of capacity? Is it possible there was something else either the users or owner did not like about the machines?

And save some money, BUT they found out fast as customers returned the new machines and complained up a storm.

When you are the worlds largest washer builder with far more repeat customers than ANY other brand, they could not get away with selling an inferior poor performing product.

Interestingly Maytag had one of the lowest repeat sales rates of he big washer builders back in the 70s-80s. Of the hundreds of MT DC washers we hauled out of homes I have only ever had about 3 customers that wanted another MT washer, they were usually impressed with long they had lasted but they were always ready for something that was larger in capacity and performed better. [ And I never had a customer that wished they had kept the old MT after they got their new WP or SQ top load washer ]

We were taking back early DD washers and giving customers BD ND machines till WP came up with a very clever fix in 1985.

John L.

I think WP went with an initial SD design on their early DD washers to save money.  I think John as eluded to that.

I have no idea what one has to do with the other, Reusing wash water was done long before Phosphate detergents were ever invented and have also been used long since phosphates were gone from laundry detergents, phosphates have been gone from detergents for more than 30 years.

John L.

Patrick, I agree with you about how DD WP made washers are reminiscent of Frigidaires.  When I went to buy my Lady Shredmore October 1986, Sears had the TOL ebony electronic control panel pair connected.  Salesman turned it on so I could see how it washed.  The rollover and how it sucked clothes down to the base immediately had me thinking, that looks just like a Unimatic washing. 

The only ones that ever had water fill levels up on the glass were the early bolt down Bendix washers and the 55-63 WH compact 25" wide models. All the others including all combos the WL was always low enough to open the the door at any time during the cycle without spliage.

While total water use on early FL models was not much less than early TL automatics you have to keep in mind that they still saved a lot of hot water, detergent and other laundry additives because the wash fill was only 1/3 to 1/2 of what the wash fill was in a TL machine.

You could also wash more clothing in a 1959 and later full sized WH FL washer than about any other machine especially the solid tub and MT washers in these tests, so the total water usage figures don't tell the whole story.

John L.

They all changed into full dry mode within one minute, several also started heating up the load in the final spin cycles to speed things up, some also gave a final hot rinse if the wash temperature had had been set to hot.

The new SQ FL washers are not only the best built automatic washers ever sold for home use in the US [ IMEO ] And you can now adjust the water level with a simple switch setting on the main control board, you can turn up the WL about 2" in 1/2" increments.

John L.

agiflow2:  Correct me if I am wrong but does any washer maker other than Speed Queen offer a top loader where you can get straight hot tap water ?