Thread Number: 73256
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Are gas wall heaters safe? |
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Post# 967638 , Reply# 2   11/13/2017 at 02:18 (2,328 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Yes, wall heaters are very common here. We have one in our den. We also used to stay at a little beach cabin that had a double back-to-back unit. I don't remember the brand, but it was really old. It had a pair of "panel ray" type vertical tubes that radiated the heat. It kept that drafty cabin nice and toasty, and often we had to get up during the night and turn it way down, or off (no thermostat, just burner control knobs on the unit). IIRC each unit had a separate pilot, but they shared the same flue.
It takes quite a breeze to blow out a pilot. I wouldn't worry about the ceiling fan's effects. I prefer to place a small air circulator type fan on the floor in the corner of the room aimed straight up and set to its lowest speed. They're inexpensive and effective.
You do not want to use an electric heater if you have the option to heat with gas. Gas is far cheaper. And, if Southern California Gas says the heater is safe, it probably is. Gas companies will shut off or otherwise disable heaters and stoves if there's the slightest indication of a hazardous condition, and in your case the apartment management would have to correct the problem.
If you stayed in the hotel on some of the first cold nights of the season, there would be dust on the burner and other hot components due to lack of use, which would cause an unpleasant odor as it burns off, but with continued use there's no chance for dust to accumulate in that quantity, and there's no more smell.
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Post# 967660 , Reply# 3   11/13/2017 at 06:25 (2,327 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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I now vaguely remember these-in very old Hotel rooms we stayed in while traveling and some older home trailers. |
Post# 967709 , Reply# 7   11/13/2017 at 13:05 (2,327 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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I have one in the basement.....it works excellent...this one is ventless....which is
OK for living spaces, not bedrooms, those must be vented outside per code... I have the option for an electric added to the heating.....but I just stick with the gas section... only the gas fire is operated by thermostat....the internal fan is not, just off and on... this unit is convertible to LP is needed... not much different than the gas fireplace in the living room.....but that one is a sealed combustion, with a fan for forced air heat...optional Summer use for a fire without heat...this one has no thermostat for anything... |
Post# 967711 , Reply# 8   11/13/2017 at 13:09 (2,327 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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I have a ventless gas fireplace in my downstairs rec room. It has a safety sensor that shuts everything off if the oxygen level of the room starts to drop towards an unsafe level. It has never set off my carbon monoxide detector. I have a vented thru the roof gas Hearthstone in my living room, that looks like a little woodstove, but both work without power. When the wind is howling and it blows down the chimney, the safety on the Hearthstone shuts off everything.
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Post# 967915 , Reply# 12   11/14/2017 at 12:53 (2,326 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Yes, you'll get noise with the metal parts expanding and contracting (unless you're a light sleeper you'll get used to it), but the "woooomp" sound might be fixable. There's an adjustable mixture of air and gas going to the burner. The adjusters appear as openings on the tubing or iron sections of the supply line feeding the burner, which are usually safely accessible while the burner is lit. Adjust them all the way open and you'll probably get a roaring blue flame that may actually appear to be suspended in air above the burner. Close them all the way and you'll get an inefficient yellow flame that produces soot and CO. What you want is a quiet blue flame with a well-defined center (visualize the flame image on the panel of a vintage Maytag gas dryer).
However, some burners just make that "woooomp" sound regardless. Check to see what the flame on yours looks like, and if it's already appearing to be at optimum air & gas mixture (the So. Cal. Gas guy may have checked it and called it good), the sound of ignition may just be normal for it. |
Post# 967916 , Reply# 13   11/14/2017 at 12:56 (2,326 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)   |   | |
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Post# 967917 , Reply# 14   11/14/2017 at 13:32 (2,326 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)   |   | |
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I never knew of one that makes a lot of noise. I used to turn them down at bed-time and crank it up in the morning. Just a low flame overnight was all I needed. |
Post# 967943 , Reply# 16   11/14/2017 at 16:40 (2,326 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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If the unit is controlled by a thermostat, there's no option to decrease the flame. If it's not thermostatically controlled and just has knobs, then you can keep it on a low flame indefinitely and there won't be any cycling on and off.
The wall unit in our den is a +/- 1980 replacement of the original, which was from the early-to-mid '60s. The old one used to make some serious noise as it heated up or cooled down. The current one will make some rapid ticking sounds immediately after it kicks in as some of the sheetmetal parts heat up, but that's about it. |
Post# 967945 , Reply# 17   11/14/2017 at 16:57 (2,326 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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The paternal grandparents had one with a blower, in the wall at one side of the double doorway between the front living room and middle kitchen/dining area. Dated to the 1950s most likely, or maybe 1960s. Thermostat across on the other side of the doorway. They typically had it running hot as hell ... somebody *always* promptly turned it off during the Christmas gathering. |
Post# 968041 , Reply# 18   11/15/2017 at 05:11 (2,325 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Gas wall heaters overhere have two pipes through the wall (actually two canals in one pipe). That is mandatory. It pulls air from outside and the combustions are vented back outside. So no gas fumes can get into the room where the heater is. Together with other safety features, they are quite safe. They are becoming very rare though with central heating etc.
Here's an older gas wall heater with such a pipe.
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Post# 968127 , Reply# 20   11/15/2017 at 15:16 (2,325 days old) by eronie (Flushing Michigan)   |   | |
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Gas stoves are not vented an nobody worrys about them go figure. |
Post# 968131 , Reply# 21   11/15/2017 at 15:46 (2,325 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 968149 , Reply# 23   11/15/2017 at 17:10 (2,325 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)   |   | |
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If it's natural gas, that "whoomp" should be fixable. But if it's LP gas, that is the way it ignites -- all of a sudden. We have LP gas fireplaces and they do that. Scared the heck out of me the first time I saw it. |
Post# 968159 , Reply# 24   11/15/2017 at 17:54 (2,325 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)   |   | |
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My grandfather in Mississippi had a couple of those gas heaters similar to the one John posted above. His were older models with fancier enclosures. For some reason, I thought they were scary when I was a little kid. Never saw them lit, as we were always there in the Summer. His house also had a fireplace. |
Post# 968632 , Reply# 26   11/17/2017 at 23:40 (2,323 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Yes, wall heaters are very common in California. As I recall, most of the flats we lived in SF in the 60's had no central heating, just one or more wall heaters, or, even more vintage, free-standing little metal heat boxes. It's a mild climate so it didn't really get all that cold most of the time. Most of them were simple on/off with no thermostat, although you could lower the flame a bit with the gas valve. Really old and funky heaters were recessed in the first floor of homes... the guts protruding into the crawl space or basement below. All that showed above was a floor grating. Woe to the sleepy kid who walks barefoot across a heater grate that has been on for a while! Most of these were turned on an off by a key, sometimes a couple of feet long.
I don't think ventless home heaters are legal in California. All the ones I've seen have flues. I recall there was a tragedy in Berkeley in the 80's where the Indian owner of an apartment building, who used to rent to young women from India (for not entirely above board reasons, "to work in his restaurant") didn't maintain the heaters. Apparently there was some roof work done and it blocked the flue for one apartment. Multiple deaths from CO poisoning, despite a record of complaints from the tenants about the heating. I've never seen a wall heater with a double flue like Louis describes. It's a very good idea, though, and prevents outside cold air from being sucked into the dwelling to feed the flame. The air for combustion comes from one of the dual flue pipes. I'm guessing the outer pipe space - the inner one being for exhaust. It serves another purpose - the incoming combustion air is pre-heated by the exhaust flow, making the heater all that more efficient. My current home, built in '41, has gas forced air heating, which looks like it was installed in the 60's or 70's. I think it replaced an older ducted central heating system - possibly passive - that can be identified by the asbestos wrapped ducting under the house. I gather that column also accommodated a flue for the gas range in the kitchen - they used to have them for the ovens - but the kitchen was remodeled probably around the time the forced air heating was installed, and the stove area turned into an alcove for the fridge and electric wall oven. And I think the old central heating system replaced an original single floor heater in the living/dining room area, which has since been turned into a return for the forced air. I had to do some work on the forced air system when I moved in... cleaned some of the ducting, and added 1" fiberglass insulation around all the ductwork in the crawl space. There are two floor returns, and I had to modify both to accept updated Filtrete air filters, including a long large rectangular cross section return duct. Used to be there'd be a loud tin can bang when the forced air shut off and the return shuddered. Now it's just a barely noticeable thump. |
Post# 968640 , Reply# 27   11/18/2017 at 02:30 (2,323 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 970070 , Reply# 29   11/26/2017 at 10:28 (2,314 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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If you can smell that musty insufficiently burnt natural gas odor, and you're getting CO alarms, then the flue may be blocked and you SHOULD shut off that heater until the flue can be completely checked.
I'd let the landlord know there is a potentially fatal problem with that heater. I'd also call the gas company and/or a HVAC company to come out and diagnose and fix it. If the landlord doesn't fix it, pay someone to do it and then deduct the cost from your next rent payment. This is California and you have a right that the rental unit you are paying for is habitable. It's state law. A defective heater that is the sole source of heat for that unit renders that unit not habitable. A properly set up and maintained wall heater should not emit any odors, nor should it set off a CO alarm! |
Post# 970088 , Reply# 30   11/26/2017 at 12:21 (2,314 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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My sister went from a regular wood burning fire place to converting it to a gas one--and maybe while at least once there was a log burning in it, or maybe it was never used for wood--I'm very forgetful, here!--she complained that the piping & valves emitted a lot of leaks, enough that the work had to be done over, and then the thing after one or two tries became never again ever used (a rather expensive investment) since no one could tolerate the odor, or still winced over the CO-2, or moreover, the fire hazardous-potential...
Oh, but then, the nuisance of having to clean out my fireplace & not wanting the furnace on & relying on it & having to bunk the entire night in the den caused my old fashioned fireplace to also fall into eternal disuse, right down to a bunch of logs somebody threw away down my block to have been picked up after I promised to stop by them one night after work to toss them in the trunk of my car, or perhaps go after them w/ my daughter's wagon--they were right by a light pole, she & would pass by while riding her bike, she can finally ride w/o the training wheels! So natural gas has to be carefully piped in & installed "by the service of experts" to be safe, to the point where only the water heater in my folks' house ever used it... The furnace was oil and is STILL 'natural crude oil', while everything else there is electric... -- Dave |
Post# 970099 , Reply# 33   11/26/2017 at 14:07 (2,314 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Call your utility company and they will come out and do an inspection, free of charge to see if there is a gas leak. And many times if its an easy fix, they will take care of it on the spot. Otherwise, they will issue a report that you can provide to your landlord.
When I rented, almost every place I lived in had a gas heater of this type. One apartment that I lived in had a small gas heater that sat by itself on the floor, rather than being wall mounted. It was vented, but it was so old that it didn’t even have a pilot light, let alone a thermostat. I had to turn on the gas valve slightly and immediatley light it with a match. If I didn’t light it quick enough it would kind of jump off the floor when I lit it. The only problem I had was that if I forgot to turn it off before I went to bed it would get hot as hell. But this was a huge apt. over a 5 car garage, uninsulated, and that little gas space heater kept it nice and toasty. The winter I lived there was one of the coldest in our counties history, getting down to 15 degrees at night, which is hella cold here in my neck of the woods. Eddie This post was last edited 11/26/2017 at 14:38 |
Post# 970105 , Reply# 34   11/26/2017 at 15:02 (2,314 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Thomas, you're over-reacting to the concept of gas-powered anything.
I'm betting some birds found the the cap on your flue to be a nice toasty location to set up shop with constant warmth provided by the pilot flame.
I don't think So Cal Gas will check the flue for you, though. They're in the gas business and that's all they care about. Whether your gas appliances are properly vented is your problem -- or in this case, your manager's or landlord's.
For many decades people have used gas for cooking, heating (that includes water), and drying laundry. If it was as dangerous as you incorrectly think, it would have been outlawed long ago.
It might only cost you as much as a month's worth of electric heating to have the flue inspected and cleaned. Gas is safe, clean burning, and cheap. That's why it's used in most home and business heating applications.
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Post# 970119 , Reply# 35   11/26/2017 at 16:24 (2,314 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Ralph is spot on with that.
Thomas, your landlord has not made your rental unit habitable. A malfunctioning furnace that repeatedly sets off CO alarms is dangerous and potentially lethal. I don't think any court of law would question the need to have that fixed at the landlord's expense. If the landlord won't do it, you have an implicit right to have the repairs done and deduct them from your rent. And maybe if the landlord refuses to cooperate, a judge could sentence them to stay in your apartment in the coldest part of the winter with the gas heat turned on? (Like a judge did to a slumlord in NYC some years back...)
California law regarding these matters is pretty inclusive, but local laws may add further landlord responsibilities.
Also it is illegal for a landlord to retaliate (by eviction, raising rent, harassment, etc) if you exercise your tenant rights.
PS-If the landlord is at all uncooperative, do everything in writing for communications about this issue, document everything, in case it does go to court.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO sudsmaster's LINK |
Post# 970190 , Reply# 37   11/27/2017 at 02:22 (2,314 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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tomorrow morning the landlord will come here to bring the doorbell, install a light fixture on the porch and I'll tell him about the heater incident. it won't surprise me if he decides to get rid of it and buy a new one as he is gradually replacing everything in this apartment. |
Post# 970195 , Reply# 39   11/27/2017 at 04:01 (2,313 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Thomas,
Good to hear your landlord is so willing to fix, replace and upgrade. You MUST tell him about the heater issue, and the CO detectors going off.
It might be a result of the ceiling fan, but I don't know. Most ceiling fans have a reverse switch. If yours does, I'd try reversing it to see if there is less effect on the furnace flame... even with the new heater when it arrives, which I'm sure it will. And of course the flue also needs to be examined. Perhaps a chimney sweep could do that.
There are probably newer wall heaters that don't use a pilot light, but have an electronic ignition instead. The forced air gas furnace in the crawl space here has one of those, and it was installed in 1983. It does make a high pitched whine that I can sometimes hear when it's starting up, although I don't know if that is the igniter or the sound of the gas flowing. Once the furnace heats up the blower turns on and the whine cannot be heard.
I think new gas ranges and cook tops cannot have pilot lights any more, either. They are all electronic ignition.
The 40 gallon gas water heater here has a pilot light. Never given any problems, but then the water heaters is in a draft protected little closet all its own, with upper and lower screened vents, in the enclosed (but ventilated) patio. It would not surprise me if newer water heaters have also gone electronic ignition, but the philosophy seems to have been that the heat of a gas pilot isn't really wasted because the water in the tank is an effective heat sink.
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Post# 970199 , Reply# 40   11/27/2017 at 05:17 (2,313 days old) by Supersurgilator (Indiana)   |   | |
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I would have called the fire department when the alarms went off. They usually have some kind of equipment that they can double check everything for that. They might have even gone on the roof as well and inspected the vent. |
Post# 970264 , Reply# 41   11/27/2017 at 13:29 (2,313 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Darryl, it sounds like both of you are on top of the situation regarding how to get action from the landlord (on site manager?). I was wondering if there might be a property management firm in this mix, and that can be either a help or a hinderance.
Thomas stated that maybe a whole new unit could be installed, but even if that were to happen, if the flue is blocked, nothing will change. Considering the age of the building, flue issues are a distinct possibility and again, I think this is the source of the problem.
Usually there's a way to adjust the pilot flame somewhere on the valve assembly, but it's not always obvious and would probably require a very small screwdriver or allen wrench. On the wall unit in our den, you have to get up close to it before you feel any warmth from the pilot, and it's minimal. I'd say the pilot flame on it is about an inch and a half long at most.
It sounds like the fan is stirring up dust in the area near the burner which would cause the yellow flame, and is also creating a draft across the burner itself. The fan should be on its lowest speed and, if reversible, set to aim the air flow toward the ceiling. I presume the gas company guy adjusted the flame for optimum performance, so if it's blue without the fan running, I'd leave that adjustment alone.
Basic thermostats are cheap. Once the heater is back to non-poisonous operation, you could probably find one that doesn't have as wide a temperature swing (or has an adjustable swing) for little money and easily install it yourself.
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Post# 970265 , Reply# 42   11/27/2017 at 13:33 (2,313 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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As I recall, all the thermostatically operated wall heaters I've seen are either on or off. No modulation of gas flow other than that. Older stand-alone heaters might have a gas valve one could modulate, but one also could risk the flame being so low it can get blown out, which obviously would not be good.
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Post# 970349 , Reply# 45   11/28/2017 at 04:07 (2,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 970363 , Reply# 46   11/28/2017 at 08:10 (2,312 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 970380 , Reply# 48   11/28/2017 at 11:07 (2,312 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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What a great report, and what a great landlord!
I'm not questioning his motives for making improvements, as I'm sure he wants to make them for you, but he also benefits when he files his taxes, so it's a win/win.
We have a friend who owns a 4-plex, and he's in the process of replacing wall ovens and cook tops for his tenants. Some are the originals from 1960, made by Frigidaire. He needs the write-offs.
JMO, but a ten year old wall heater is something I'd consider to be nearly new. There's not a lot to go wrong with the heating unit itself, but hey, if he wants to replace it, why not?
When you said you landed in "one of the worst neighborhoods in Los Angeles" I immediately thought Boyle Heights. I think South Central might actually be better. When I visit L.A., I spend most of my time in the area from downtown and points north of there, and my sister lives not all that far from Boyle Heights. At least you're near the 110, which gives you a straight shot to the cultural centers. |
Post# 970879 , Reply# 50   12/1/2017 at 02:36 (2,310 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 971167 , Reply# 52   12/2/2017 at 17:20 (2,308 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Your next step could be to get one of the newer programmable "setback" thermostats. With those you tell it to come on by itself in the moring with a certain target temp, then back off after you've left for work/school/whatever, come back on just before you're due home again, then back off about the time you plan to retire for the night. They are relatively inexpensive (under $50) and very simple to install (just hook up two wires in the wall from the old stat to the new one) and program. Mine is a Lux 1500 I got about ten or more years ago. It needs a new battery every year or two but other than that it's been trouble free. Oh, and you can manually override the set temp any time you like. Like turn it up at night or down during the day.
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Post# 971379 , Reply# 53   12/3/2017 at 23:05 (2,307 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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I want to get something with WI-Fi (compatible with Bixby). Not that I really need it, but to have the comfort to turn on the heater before I arrive home and also by the morning i can ask Bixby to turn it off instead of running naked around the house to reach the thermostat. But I have no idea if it would work, as the heater uses a milivolt thermostat, super simple. I haven't researched anything about that yet. |
Post# 971392 , Reply# 54   12/4/2017 at 00:58 (2,307 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)   |   | |
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Milivolt systems are tough to control with WiFi, but I did fond a Lux thermostat that will work on your system. CLICK HERE TO GO TO MattL's LINK |
Post# 971425 , Reply# 55   12/4/2017 at 08:46 (2,306 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 971619 , Reply# 56   12/5/2017 at 00:50 (2,306 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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If you have closed curtains-most folks close those at night-and you are naked-they will never know! |
Post# 982573 , Reply# 59   2/13/2018 at 01:46 (2,236 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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A new heater shouldn't be generating sooty residue. I think your CO alarms would be going off if that were the case. If you have issues with dust, the heater grille will be one of the places where it will accumulate.
In an old building, you're going to have drafty conditions if the windows and doors don't seal well. The heater will work fine if you cover the gap under the front door. You can buy a felt sweep on a metal strip to install at the bottom of the door and cover the gap, or just use one of those snakes or a towel to place across the door bottom. The more drafts you eliminate, the lower your gas bill will be.
Again, a compact air circulator placed in an out-of-the way spot and set to its lowest speed will help to distribute heat more evenly. |
Post# 982586 , Reply# 62   2/13/2018 at 06:15 (2,235 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )   |   | |
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Don't forget to ask at Home Depot if they have any scratch & dent models for sale. My sister & brother-in-law bought a nice GE fridge at Menard's that had a scuff on the freezer door, and it was marked down significantly from the original price. You can't even see the scuff if you don't know it's there. |
Post# 982587 , Reply# 63   2/13/2018 at 06:28 (2,235 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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In the days when I used to rent an apartment--It was ILLEGAL for the landlord to enter your unit without 24hrs notice UNLESS it was some sort of emergency threatning safety of others or the building.I would check on that in your area. |
Post# 982588 , Reply# 64   2/13/2018 at 06:29 (2,235 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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Disposer as a pump??That man doesn't know crap about disposers-they are NOT pumps-they are a machine intended to shred food waste!! |
Post# 982917 , Reply# 69   2/15/2018 at 09:43 (2,233 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama)   |   | |
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So glad you have such a fantastic landlord! and that you have a new, safe heater.
I just wanted to add a note to everyone--if you're worried about a gas appliance, gas companies in most (probably all) areas will come and inspect it for you without charge whether or not you are the property owner. As some mentioned in earlier posts, the gas company has a vested interest in making sure people aren't using dangerous appliances. Stay warm, Sarah |
Post# 983195 , Reply# 70   2/17/2018 at 20:39 (2,231 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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OK, not judging. But...
If you are planning on staying in California long term, you might try to wean yourself off that relatively high indoor temp. Why? Well, as you have noticed, prices for residential energy in California are quite high. Perhaps twice the price of, say, the Midwest (Ohio etc). So you'll save some $$ if you get yourself to enjoy lower room temps. How to do it? Well, I'd start by investing in some indoor winter clothing. Soft cotton sweatshirts and sweatpants are a good solution. Maybe even a watch cap. Warm slippers as well. If you don't like how you look in them, then put something else on when you go outside. Where it probably will be colder, anyway. It the sweat clothing isn't enough, get some nice sweaters - or a fleece hooded jacket. Again, not judging, but you did complain about the high gas bill. As for the "snake" to block drafts coming under the door... well, a rolled up bath towel will do that too. And if blocking the air gap doesn't cause any heating problems, it would be a simple matter to add some weather stripping to the bottom of the door - probably about $10 from a hardware store. As for your landlord - he sounds like a real character. I'd have read him the riot act after his second intrusion. He has no right to invade your privacy like that. And if he kept on doing it, I'd send him a letter about it AND change the locks to keep him from entering without notice. If he complains that he'd need to enter in an emergency, tell him in that case to just knock down the door, if it's truly an emergency. Worry about the repair costs later. |
Post# 983213 , Reply# 71   2/18/2018 at 01:34 (2,231 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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I understand you`re not judjing (don`t worry about that, I`ll never think you`re judging me) I can't sleep if it's not like Mrs. Monroe, you know, wearing Chanel #5 (just kidding, not even Chanel) ABsolutely nothing, NADA! Regarding the lock, the contract forbids me from changing the locks and if anyway I want to change, in 24 hours i MUST give a copy of the keys to the Landlord. |
Post# 983284 , Reply# 72   2/18/2018 at 16:32 (2,230 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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From:http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/living-in.shtml
WHEN CAN THE LANDLORD ENTER THE RENTAL UNIT? California law states that a landlord can enter a rental unit only for the following reasons: In an emergency. When the tenant has moved out or has abandoned the rental unit. To make necessary or agreed-upon repairs, decorations, alterations, or other improvements. To show the rental unit to prospective tenants, purchasers, or lenders, to provide entry to contractors or workers who are to perform work on the unit, or to conduct an initial inspection before the end of the tenancy (see Initial Inspection sidebar). If a court order permits the landlord to enter.116 If the tenant has a waterbed, to inspect the installation of the waterbed when the installation has been completed, and periodically after that to assure that the installation meets the law's requirements.117 The landlord or the landlord's agent must give the tenant reasonable advance notice in writing before entering the unit, and can enter only during normal business hours (generally, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on weekdays). The notice must state the date, approximate time and purpose of entry. 118 However, advance written notice is not required under any of the following circumstances: To respond to an emergency. The tenant has moved out or has abandoned the rental unit. The tenant is present and consents to the entry at the time of entry. The tenant and landlord have agreed that the landlord will make repairs or supply services, and have agreed orally that the landlord may enter to make the repairs or supply the services. The agreement must include the date and approximate time of entry, which must be within one week of the oral agreement.119 The landlord or agent may use any one of the following methods to give the tenant written notice of intent to enter the unit. The landlord or agent may: Personally deliver the notice to the tenant; or Leave the notice at the rental unit with a person of suitable age and discretion (for example, a roommate or a teenage member of the tenant's household); or Leave the notice on, near or under the unit's usual entry door in such a way that it is likely to be found; or Mail the notice to the tenant.120 The law considers 24 hours' advance written notice to be reasonable in most situations. If the notice is mailed to the tenant, mailing at least six days before the intended entry is presumed to be reasonable, in most situations.121 The tenant can consent to shorter notice and to entry at times other than during normal business hours. Special rules apply if the purpose of the entry is to show the rental to a purchaser. In that case, the landlord or the landlord's agent may give the tenant notice orally, either in person or by telephone. The law considers 24 hours' notice to be reasonable in most situations. However, before oral notice can be given, the landlord or agent must first have notified the tenant in writing that the rental is for sale and that the landlord or agent may contact the tenant orally to arrange to show it. This written notice must be given to the tenant within 120 days of the oral notice. The oral notice must state the date, approximate time and purpose of entry.122 The landlord or agent may enter only during normal business hours, unless the tenant consents to entry at a different time123 When the landlord or agent enters the rental, he or she must leave written evidence of entry, such as a business card.124 The landlord cannot abuse the right of access allowed by these rules, or use this right of access to harass (repeatedly disturb) the tenant.125 Also, the law prohibits a landlord from significantly and intentionally violating these access rules to attempt to influence the tenant to move from the rental unit. 126 If your landlord violates these access rules, talk to the landlord about your concerns. If that is not successful in stopping the landlord's misconduct, send the landlord a formal letter asking the landlord to strictly observe the access rules stated above. If the landlord continues to violate these rules, you can talk to an attorney or a legal aid organization, or file suit in small claims court to recover damages that you have suffered due to the landlord's misconduct. If the landlord's violation of these rules was significant and intentional, and the landlord's purpose was to influence you to move from the rental unit, you can sue the landlord in small claims court for a civil penalty of up to $2,000 for each violation.127 Sudsmaster's comments: Having to use a bathroom is NOT a legitimate emergency to allow a landlord to enter your rental unit without 24 hours notice. If it really bothers you (as it would me), you may object to each occurance in writing, and please note that if the landlord retaliates for your objection and forces you to move, you could sue for up to $2,000 per occurrence. CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK |
Post# 983529 , Reply# 73   2/20/2018 at 02:56 (2,229 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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Another thought on your landlord using your unit as an "outhouse" Is there a Landlord-tenant commission in your area-you could report the problem to them. |
Post# 983642 , Reply# 74   2/20/2018 at 21:49 (2,228 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I've never had a landlord come into my place to use the toilet.
That I know of. I did have one when I was a student who had a habit of entering units (it was a three unit converted two story home) when he thought nobody was home. Other tenants had warned me; once I was in bed with company and this guy opened my door and peeked in. I thought I was dreaming (it was early morning). He was an odd little guy, but the rent was cheap and I liked the place. Eventually though he sold the place and the new owner jacked up the rents, so I moved out. |