Thread Number: 73310
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
New dishwashers and hot water |
[Down to Last] |
|
Post# 968410 , Reply# 1   11/16/2017 at 19:02 (2,324 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 968423 , Reply# 2   11/16/2017 at 20:01 (2,324 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Glad you're enjoying your new KitchenAid. I'd planned to make my next dishwasher a KA back at the house, but I needed a full-size portable upon moving to the apartment in August. This left me with a choice between Whirlpool (good user and professional reviews) or GE (horrible user and professional reviews).
Does your KA boost the main wash temp to 140? My previous dishwashers (Frigidaire, KA, Maytag, LG, GE) did, but I've noticed some very recent models only heat to 120 degrees---as does my Whirlpool. Tap temp is 142, so I'm assuming the internal heater doesn't have to work much. |
Post# 968427 , Reply# 3   11/16/2017 at 20:25 (2,324 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Eugene, most of the stable of WP products have default regular soil water temp of 105--Maytag, WP, KA, Amana. It's one of the reasons why I chose my Kenmore Elite--default is still 120 and high temp 140. The aforementioned brands predominantly have high temp of 135 degrees, some option/cycle combinations put it at 140. All based upon what's specified in user manuals. My Smart Wash starts at 1:58 and ends up taking 2:31 to 2:44. Pots & Pans is 2:16 and ends up subtracting about :05 off of that. Times are without heated dry.
Matt, does your model have the Quick Wash cycle? I find the 58 minute cycle is good, far better than my first TT's 30 minute wash. Plus I can add heated dry. This post was last edited 11/16/2017 at 20:41 |
Post# 968444 , Reply# 5   11/16/2017 at 21:45 (2,323 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
until about a decade ago. Never heard of it, living through 4 homes. The amount that these silly new dishwashers save in water, is wasted with having to run the tap in the sink until it's hot. |
Post# 968476 , Reply# 7   11/17/2017 at 04:34 (2,323 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Matt, nice model. With this being a filter-based system, Henrik's analysis may be close to reality. I observed similar with Andrew's comments about adding additional prewashes. Mine has a self-cleaning filter system and I have thrown some pretty nasty stuff at it and only once did it do something unusual. It didn't add other prewasheses, it simply added 3 minutes to the time when it began filling for the main wash. Conversely, for those situations, it did at a 3rd postwash rinse. I do not like 3rd racks at all. I'd remove it immediately as it would get in my way of frequently putting stuff in the upper rack that the 3rd rack would interfere with. Matt, the Express Wash, the last 20 minutes is the final rinse. It's 20 to 25 minutes long to do some water heating to aid in drying of load if heated dry isn't selected. So you could cancel the cycle at about 40 minutes if you wish to. |
Post# 968503 , Reply# 8   11/17/2017 at 09:27 (2,323 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
My water heater is (currently) set at 102°F. The lower-temp flow loses more heat to the piping until it all gets warmed up so takes subjectively a little longer to get fully heated to the kitchen faucet. I checked a few mins with no hot water having been run since yesterday evening. It started getting warmed at approx 2.25 gal but took 2.75 to 3 to get fully "hot" (hot such as it is at 102°F). Higher output temp will feel warmer comparatively sooner but would take about the same volume to reach full temp. My dishwasher takes 0.8 gal per fill so that's 4 fills to get heated incoming water if the line isn't purged first, which is why I say that it's running on a tap-cold connection. It *always* heats the main wash and final rinse to specific temperatures (varies per the selected cycle). I normally purge during cooler months but typically don't during summer unless the load is appreciably heavy- or greasy-soiled. I washed an 11"x14" baking dish several weeks ago with chicken grease residue, didn't purge first. I happened to check the pump filter after that load and it had some grease residue -- either not enough detergent or the initial fill needed to be hotter to better handle it. I ran the filter through the next load (in the other drawer) and it was clean. |
Post# 968505 , Reply# 9   11/17/2017 at 09:51 (2,323 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
My dishwasher is about 30' from the water heater and my supply lines are 3/4". I installed a Watts Hot Water Recirculating Pump and what a difference! I rarely have anything come out dirty from the DW. It doesn't require a return line to the water heater.
View Full Size
|
Post# 968565 , Reply# 10   11/17/2017 at 15:41 (2,323 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
The Watts unit looks interesting, but a little pricey at $199. I've got all the stuff for a gravity system for under $40, just got to install it. I know it can be a bit tricky to get the circulation running though. |
Post# 968567 , Reply# 11   11/17/2017 at 15:52 (2,323 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
You're right, $199 is pricy. I found it on eBay for about $100.00. It was well worth it! |
Post# 968579 , Reply# 13   11/17/2017 at 17:09 (2,323 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 968584 , Reply# 14   11/17/2017 at 17:28 (2,323 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Several years ago now and it makes a huge difference. Nearly "instant" hot water once tap is opened; this as opposed to having run the thing several seconds or whatever to bring hot water up through pipes.
IIRC downside to using recirculation pumps is perhaps an increase in energy use. But this may be offset by savings from not "wasting" all that water by running taps needlessly. The Mobile Maid dishwasher loves it! Nice piping hot water right from start. |
Post# 968596 , Reply# 15   11/17/2017 at 18:30 (2,323 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
You all are motivating me to put that 3rd line in. For me it's not too difficult as the previous GE DW leaked enough to ruin 3 or 4 ceiling panels in my basement. Got to pull them so half the ceiling will be open. Might benefit the new DW too... |
Post# 968613 , Reply# 16   11/17/2017 at 20:36 (2,322 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 968757 , Reply# 18   11/18/2017 at 16:02 (2,322 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
|
Post# 968852 , Reply# 19   11/19/2017 at 00:22 (2,321 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
before I start dishes, but it's not wasting water since, before I start the dishwasher, I'm cleaning the sink with dish soap and a rag, then I start the machine. But I'm not understanding how Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana's regular soil temp is 105...How can a dishwasher only use 105 degree water - that's crazy. My Maytag gets hot when washing even on normal.
|
Post# 968872 , Reply# 20   11/19/2017 at 06:40 (2,321 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 968886 , Reply# 21   11/19/2017 at 07:43 (2,321 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Mark, you Maytag was at the end of a generation whereby default was 120 degrees. Remember Maytag came out with their current version not too soon after you got your new one? I've run hot tap before turning on dishwasher since the 60s. I use the cold water in the line to run the garbage disposal before turning on the dishwasher. So no wasted water.
Whirlpool is the only producer of dishwasher (across their brands) which at least states what water temps might be. It's the same with their front loaders, they state whether tumbling pattern is gentle, medium, or normal tumble speeds. |
Post# 968894 , Reply# 22   11/19/2017 at 08:17 (2,321 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
|
Post# 968898 , Reply# 23   11/19/2017 at 09:06 (2,321 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
There is of course the question of sanitizing ... but the typical consumer nowadays trained for cold-water laundry isn't likely to have a problem with warm-water dishwashing. Mine can turn cold water into 150°F wash and 163°F final rinse, on 120v current with a cycle time of 132-ish mins which includes 7 water changes and 28 mins for drying. |
Post# 968925 , Reply# 24   11/19/2017 at 13:48 (2,321 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 968938 , Reply# 25   11/19/2017 at 15:29 (2,321 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Normal/regular soil is very minimal, what most people put in their dishwasher. Will cause default temp of 105. Current TOL Maytag says high temp will raise main wash from 105 to 129. Sani Rinse will aise main wash from 105 to 145 and final rinse from 140 to 155. The respective figures for KitchenAid are default 105. High Temp from 105 to either 130 or 140. Sani Rinse will raise main wash from 105 to 140 and final rinse to 155. On my Kenore Elite, default normal soil is 120. High temp raises main wash from 120 to 140. Sani Rinse raises main ash to 140 and final rinse to 155. Most people rinse their dishes off and so 105 for normal average coinnditions would be fine with 105 degree main wash. Final rinse is 140 unless Sani Rinse is selected.
On mine, wouldn't surprise me Normal cycle default is 105, but it still could be 120. My normal cycle gives me just 1 post-wash rinse, even with high temp. Will add an extra rinse if sani rinse is selected. For Smart Wash, I get a minimum of a purge and rinse post-wash. With high temp I get two post-wash rinses. Sani Rinse and TurboZone gives me 3 post-wash rinses. |
Post# 968962 , Reply# 26   11/19/2017 at 18:13 (2,321 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
|
Post# 970351 , Reply# 29   11/28/2017 at 04:52 (2,312 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Is rather nice, we at least now have another worry.
Thanks to all that constantly circulating very hot water, cold water taps are giving out water at around 100F. It takes ages of running the tap to purge all the "warm" water from pipes and bring in fresh from (presumably) outside the building. For most other purposes don't really mind. However the Oko-Lavamat does not like "warm" cold water. It throws the programming off for various cycles because water heats faster than it should. So machine slices ten or more minutes of time off washing cycle to compensate. Rinsing is not much of an issue other than things are coming out rather creased from being spun while still rather warm. |
Post# 970360 , Reply# 31   11/28/2017 at 07:36 (2,312 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Do you find that, on occasion, your cold water is full of minute air bubbles, like champagne? |
Post# 970648 , Reply# 34   11/29/2017 at 16:09 (2,311 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Enzymes in dishwasher detergents will help with protein based soils, but have nearly nil effect on the other large component of such soils; fats/greases/oils. For that you need alkaline pH .
In commercial settings dishes are pretty much pre-rinsed or even washed before going into the machine. Very hot water and alkaline pH detergents take care of the soiling. There are enzyme based products for institutional ware washing, but these IIRC are limited to soaking products meant for flatware. More on circulating pumps: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulator... System in ours does not have a timer or any such feature; it runs 24/7 constantly circulating water though the boilers to hot water lines. Am guessing for certain times of day and or overnight when there is low demand, that hot water just sits in pipes heating up surrounding area. |
Post# 972867 , Reply# 36   12/10/2017 at 17:11 (2,300 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 972877 , Reply# 37   12/10/2017 at 19:02 (2,300 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Thank you,Glenn. |
Post# 972964 , Reply# 40   12/11/2017 at 09:10 (2,299 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Thank you, Matt. I can also plug the pump into one of my timers to turn it on and off at various times. On weekends, it would not be that hard to run downstairs while the tea is steeping and just turn the thing on. Nothing in my house is smart, beginning with the owner. |
Post# 974702 , Reply# 41   12/20/2017 at 02:57 (2,290 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Temperature of "cold" water coming out of tap was 101.4F. Took leaving water run for >8mins to get cold water (83F), and even longer still to reach the nice frigid water coming from outside building.
This does vary by time of day. During peak usage times (mornings through early evening) *frigid* cold water arrives almost at once after opening tap. |