Thread Number: 73310  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
New dishwashers and hot water
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Post# 968398   11/16/2017 at 18:20 (363 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I replaced my trusty GE dishwasher that was about 10 years old. Still like it and have it but it needs the pump rebuilt. Have the parts for that too. Got a killer deal on a Kitchenaid DW and decided to try it. Overall I'm very impressed. Few issues - not with performance- everything comes out spotless. Issues are minor 98% of the time, 1- length of cycle and 2 - no 30 minute cycle. but I can live with that except during the holidays when it might be an issue.

Anyway to my point. I always run the hot water at the sink as it's about a 40' run from the tank prior to running the DW. I've always noticed that anytime I run water while the DW is running I get HOT water. Now not so much. The small amount of water used and the length of the cycles are not enough to keep hot water all the time. I'd guess that is why the unit has a heater. I've checked any number of times at various points in the cycle and the water in the DW is HOT, just not hot from the tap. Not a real issue for me but just an observation.

Post# 968410 , Reply# 1   11/16/2017 at 19:02 (363 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Matt, congratulations.  Which model did you get? 

Post# 968423 , Reply# 2   11/16/2017 at 20:01 (363 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Glad you're enjoying your new KitchenAid. I'd planned to make my next dishwasher a KA back at the house, but I needed a full-size portable upon moving to the apartment in August. This left me with a choice between Whirlpool (good user and professional reviews) or GE (horrible user and professional reviews).

Does your KA boost the main wash temp to 140? My previous dishwashers (Frigidaire, KA, Maytag, LG, GE) did, but I've noticed some very recent models only heat to 120 degrees---as does my Whirlpool. Tap temp is 142, so I'm assuming the internal heater doesn't have to work much.

Post# 968427 , Reply# 3   11/16/2017 at 20:25 (363 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Eugene, most of the stable of WP products have default regular soil water temp of 105--Maytag, WP, KA, Amana.  It's one of the reasons why I chose my Kenmore Elite--default is still 120 and high temp 140.   The aforementioned brands predominantly have high temp of 135 degrees, some option/cycle combinations put it at 140.  All based upon what's specified in user manuals.  My Smart Wash starts at 1:58 and ends up taking 2:31 to 2:44.  Pots & Pans is 2:16 and ends up subtracting about :05 off of that.  Times are without heated dry. 


Matt, does your model have the Quick Wash cycle?  I find the 58 minute cycle is good, far better than my first TT's 30 minute wash.  Plus I can add heated dry. 

This post was last edited 11/17/2017 at 02:41
Post# 968437 , Reply# 4   11/16/2017 at 21:17 (363 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Running the tap

Was thinking about if that still made sense with the new DW you have.

I'd actually think so in terms of saving time.

IIRC the sensor cycles on WP machines (as KA is made by WP) can do several prewashes, but none of them are longer then 10 min (or was it 15 min?).
Given that your pipes are somewhat insulated, the water in them should still be well above 120F after those 15 minutes, at least if your water heater is set to 140F or above.

Not sure if I mix things up saying this, but I think that WP sensor cycles opt more towards more prewashes if the incomming water is cool in an attempt to purge the pipes and thus save time.
With shorter runs that works well, but at 40ft, even 3 fills won't work out as a once-over purge.
Thus, if you do not purge the lines, it might run more prewashes then needed by soil.

Though I think the biggest culprit for your long cycle times will be the final rinse.
The main wash is at least 30 or 45 min, and there aren't enough quick water changes after the main wash to purge the lines.
Thus, heating the final rinse to beyond 130F will take a considerable amount of time.
And I don't think you want to wait around to make a manual purge at the end of the mainwash.

Now, what would be interesting to see is if the DW could perform well without purging the hot water.
A quick calculation for a 1" pipe at 40ft leads my to believe you are purging at least 5 gallons before each run.
That basicly means purging + cycle use about the same as just the cycle on your old one.
Not having to "waste" that water would be a huge saveing one would suppose.

Further, for the holidays, it might be a good idea to time out the 1h wash cycle.
That cycle shouldn't rely on the sensors, thus, should be the most predictible cycle.
The cycle however does include timeframes for heating the water.
Thus, if you know when in the cycle the main wash is about to end, you could set a simple kitchen timer when starting the cycle and purge the lines before the final rinse.
If you are in the kitchen anyways doing other things, that could be an efficent way to cut 10 or so minutes of that cycle without compromising results.
Also, the 60min cycle does include a short drying stage IIRC. If you unload the DW right away anyway, you could save another few minutes. Just cancel the cycle and open the door once the drying stage has started. Pull out the lower rack completly and let it sit 2-3 minutes. In combination with rinse aid, that should be enough to flash-dry most items to a satisfactory degree.

So, the most time efficent flow of operations while ensuring sufficent results and acceptable usage would be:
1. Prerinse the most dirty dishes. This purges the hot water line and gives that water a use. Though prerinsing on the full cycles can harm results and the machine, it should enhance the results on the 1h wash. As there is less soil for the detergent to work on, the wash solution will be more agressive. And with that short main wash, that should give good cleaning even on heavier soils. Because the main wash is short, the agressive solution has less time to attack racks\seals\parts in general.
2. Load, set cycle, start, set kitchentimer for pre final rinse purging. When the timer rings, purge the water.
3. As you hear the pump stoping for the drying stage, execute cancel and drain. Open door, pull out lower rack, let cool for a few minutes.

That should give load turn-around times of 60-70min. I think that is managable for holiday buisness.

Few questions out of sheer curiosity:

1) Any idea on how much water you have to purge from the hot line before water gets warm?
2) Did you notice how many prewashes the machine tends to run on an average load?
3) How is your cycle distribution? Do you mainly run the sensor cycle, or do you use all the cycles frequently etc.?

Glad to hear you are at least generally happy with the machine!

Post# 968444 , Reply# 5   11/16/2017 at 21:45 (363 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)        
I Never Pre-Ran Hot Water

until about a decade ago. Never heard of it, living through 4 homes. The amount that these silly new dishwashers save in water, is wasted with having to run the tap in the sink until it's hot.

Post# 968464 , Reply# 6   11/16/2017 at 23:28 (363 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Bob, it's a KDTE254ESS1


As to cycles I alternate between the auto cycle and the 1 hour cycle.  Have used the power scrub cycle once or twice.  Have mixed feelings on the 3rd rack.  75% of the time it's not an issue and I use it occasionally, but other times it interferes with stuff in the 2nd rack and I have to remove it. One thing that I find kind of nice and interesting is that both upper and lower racks have ball bearing glides, not just the second rack.


Loading was also a concern.  I've been a GE guy for many many years.  Prior to the most recent GE I tried a WP Gold unit.  It lasted all of 2 weeks before it went back to the store.  Hating the racking was an understatement. With the move to the KA I find I can load exactly as I did in the past and seem to have a bit more room in this unit.  I have a side by side fridge and was able to run all the shelves and bins through the KA just as I did in the GE.  That is another thing that I'd love a 30 minute cycle for.


The KA is rated at 39dB, very quite.  I can hear a little water sloshing occasionally but that is it.  It sips power, I checked my Smartthings watt meter when it was running and the usage was very low.


Henrik, that is quite an analysis.  Luckily water is fairly inexpensive here so I'm not too concerned about 5 gal of water, but it does add up.  I'll have to time some cycles with and without preheated water.  I  will try your suggestions for the holidays and keep the water hot throughout the cycle and see if that changes the timing.  This might get me to install the hot water recirculating system I bought stuff for a couple of years ago and never installed.  It's just a simple gravity system, no pump, and I can't get it to the furthest 1/2 bath that is close to 70' from the hot water supply.  If I got it to the kitchen sink that would greatly help though.

Post# 968476 , Reply# 7   11/17/2017 at 04:34 (363 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Matt, nice model.  With this being a filter-based system, Henrik's analysis may be close to reality.  I observed similar with Andrew's comments about adding additional prewashes.  Mine has a self-cleaning filter system and I have thrown some pretty nasty stuff at it and only once did it do something unusual.  It didn't add other prewasheses, it simply added 3 minutes to the time when it began filling for the main wash.  Conversely, for those situations, it did at a 3rd postwash rinse.  I do not like 3rd racks at all.  I'd remove it immediately as it would get in my way of frequently putting stuff in the upper rack that the 3rd rack would interfere with.  Matt, the Express Wash, the last 20 minutes is the final rinse.  It's 20 to 25 minutes long to do some water heating to aid in drying of load if heated dry isn't selected.  So you could cancel the cycle at about 40 minutes if you wish to. 

Post# 968503 , Reply# 8   11/17/2017 at 09:27 (362 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My water heater is (currently) set at 102°F.  The lower-temp flow loses more heat to the piping until it all gets warmed up so takes subjectively a little longer to get fully heated to the kitchen faucet.  I checked a few mins with no hot water having been run since yesterday evening.  It started getting warmed at approx 2.25 gal but took 2.75 to 3 to get fully "hot" (hot such as it is at 102°F).  Higher output temp will feel warmer comparatively sooner but would take about the same volume to reach full temp.

My dishwasher takes 0.8 gal per fill so that's 4 fills to get heated incoming water if the line isn't purged first, which is why I say that it's running on a tap-cold connection.  It *always* heats the main wash and final rinse to specific temperatures (varies per the selected cycle).

I normally purge during cooler months but typically don't during summer unless the load is appreciably heavy- or greasy-soiled.  I washed an 11"x14" baking dish several weeks ago with chicken grease residue, didn't purge first.  I happened to check the pump filter after that load and it had some grease residue -- either not enough detergent or the initial fill needed to be hotter to better handle it.  I ran the filter through the next load (in the other drawer) and it was clean.

Post# 968505 , Reply# 9   11/17/2017 at 09:51 (362 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)        
instant hot water

My dishwasher is about 30' from the water heater and my supply lines are 3/4".
I installed a Watts Hot Water Recirculating Pump and what a difference! I rarely have anything come out dirty from the DW. It doesn't require a return line to the water heater.

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Post# 968565 , Reply# 10   11/17/2017 at 15:41 (362 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

The Watts unit looks interesting, but a little pricey at $199.  I've got all the stuff for a gravity system for under $40, just got to install it.  I know it can be a bit tricky to get the circulation running though.

Post# 968567 , Reply# 11   11/17/2017 at 15:52 (362 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)        
Watts unit

You're right, $199 is pricy. I found it on eBay for about $100.00. It was well worth it!

Post# 968573 , Reply# 12   11/17/2017 at 16:24 (362 days old) by Real1 (Eastern WA)        

Grundfos makes a unit that mounts above your WH and its purpose is to give you instant hot water throughout the house.  It's not cheap, but if you don't have the third hot water return line coming back to you WH with a recirculating pump, it might be the way to go for all your fixtures.



Post# 968579 , Reply# 13   11/17/2017 at 17:09 (362 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My master bath is way at the end of the run from the water heater.  I've considered a retrofit recirculating pump (don't have a dedicated return line for it) but I have a tankless heater so those designed for installation at a tank heater won't work.

Post# 968584 , Reply# 14   11/17/2017 at 17:28 (362 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Our building installed reciruclating pumps off the boiler

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Several years ago now and it makes a huge difference. Nearly "instant" hot water once tap is opened; this as opposed to having run the thing several seconds or whatever to bring hot water up through pipes.

IIRC downside to using recirculation pumps is perhaps an increase in energy use. But this may be offset by savings from not "wasting" all that water by running taps needlessly.

The Mobile Maid dishwasher loves it! Nice piping hot water right from start.

Post# 968596 , Reply# 15   11/17/2017 at 18:30 (362 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

You all are motivating me to put that 3rd line in. For me it's not too difficult as the previous GE DW leaked enough to ruin 3 or 4 ceiling panels in my basement. Got to pull them so half the ceiling will be open.

Might benefit the new DW too...

Post# 968613 , Reply# 16   11/17/2017 at 20:36 (362 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Nearly all commercial laundries and or laundromats have recirculating hot water pumps, well at least the better ones.

This ensures washing machines get "hot" water regardless of how many are on the line and so forth.

Post# 968656 , Reply# 17   11/18/2017 at 06:23 (362 days old) by retro-man (nashua,nh)        

I have a recirculating pump on my hot water. Everyone that comes over and uses the bathroom and washes their hands notices it. Wow hot water just after turning on the faucet and not having to run it to wash up. Dishwasher likes it, the washing machine fills with hot right from the start. I don't think it wastes that much energy. I can tell when the water heaters are running from a click in the wall where the return pipe goes back to the pump. They come on about once every 3-4 hours if no water is being used. I would think this is pretty normal. Surely cuts down on water and waste bills.


Post# 968757 , Reply# 18   11/18/2017 at 16:02 (361 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Move to Europe. 220V get a cold fill steaming in no time. 😉

Post# 968852 , Reply# 19   11/19/2017 at 00:22 (361 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I run the tap

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before I start dishes, but it's not wasting water since, before I start the dishwasher, I'm cleaning the sink with dish soap and a rag, then I start the machine. But I'm not understanding how Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana's regular soil temp is 105...How can a dishwasher only use 105 degree water - that's crazy. My Maytag gets hot when washing even on normal.

Post# 968872 , Reply# 20   11/19/2017 at 06:40 (361 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Mark_WPDuet:  How can a dishwasher only use 105 degree water - that's crazy.
Detergent enzymes with a long wash period.

Post# 968886 , Reply# 21   11/19/2017 at 07:43 (361 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Mark, you Maytag was at the end of a generation whereby default was 120 degrees.  Remember Maytag came out with their current version not too soon after you got your new one?  I've run hot tap before turning on dishwasher since the 60s.  I use the cold water in the line to run the garbage disposal before turning on the dishwasher.  So no wasted water. 


Whirlpool is the only producer of dishwasher (across their brands) which at least states what water temps might be.  It's the same with their front loaders, they state whether tumbling pattern is gentle, medium, or normal tumble speeds. 

Post# 968894 , Reply# 22   11/19/2017 at 08:17 (361 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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You bet I'm glad with my European voltage. I use the pots and pan cycles as my regular cycle because often some stuff is in there for three days. My dishwasher turns cold water into 167F and in the last rinse into 155F.

Post# 968898 , Reply# 23   11/19/2017 at 09:06 (360 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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There is of course the question of sanitizing ... but the typical consumer nowadays trained for cold-water laundry isn't likely to have a problem with warm-water dishwashing.

Mine can turn cold water into 150°F wash and 163°F final rinse, on 120v current with a cycle time of 132-ish mins which includes 7 water changes and 28 mins for drying.

Post# 968925 , Reply# 24   11/19/2017 at 13:48 (360 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I'm a little confused

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What do you mean by "regular soil water temp" (like as in regular soil, meaning the normal cycle or auto clean)? What happens if you chose a longer cycle with hi-temp or sanitize? Does the hi-temp reach the same degree as an older model like mine?

Post# 968938 , Reply# 25   11/19/2017 at 15:29 (360 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Normal/regular soil is very minimal, what most people put in their dishwasher.  Will cause default temp of 105.  Current TOL Maytag says high temp will raise main wash from 105 to 129.  Sani Rinse will aise main wash from 105 to 145 and  final rinse from 140 to 155.  The respective figures for KitchenAid are default 105.  High Temp from 105 to either 130 or 140.  Sani Rinse will raise main wash from 105 to 140 and final rinse to 155.  On my Kenore Elite, default normal soil is 120.  High temp raises main wash from 120 to 140.  Sani Rinse raises main ash to 140 and final rinse to 155.  Most people rinse their dishes off and so 105 for normal average coinnditions would be fine with 105 degree main wash.  Final rinse is 140 unless Sani Rinse is selected.    


On mine, wouldn't surprise me Normal cycle default is 105, but it still could be 120.  My normal cycle gives me just 1 post-wash rinse, even with high temp.  Will add an extra rinse if sani rinse is selected.  For Smart Wash, I get a minimum of a purge and rinse post-wash.  With high temp I get two post-wash rinses.  Sani Rinse and TurboZone gives me 3 post-wash rinses. 

Post# 968962 , Reply# 26   11/19/2017 at 18:13 (360 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Besides Whirlpool, Bosch manual also have temps listed

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Post# 968979 , Reply# 27   11/19/2017 at 20:07 (360 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Whirlpool Sensor Systems

Would actually surprise me if the US WP soil sensors would not have the ability to override default temperatures.

It's basicly a given thing that a sensor cycle in the EU can alter wash temperature depending on sensing.
Depending on manufacturer, model and cycle, temps range from 40C to 75C (104F to 167F), with different degrees of granular behaviour (some only have 2 temp levels, some are actually close to infinite to my knwoledge) and ways of reacting to certain sensing scenarios (some default to max temp just when they need to run a prewash, the infinite system that I think I read about somewhere actually heats the mainwash as long as there is a change in the sensor readout).
Some manufacturers even alter final rinse temps depending on load size (big loads retain more energy and thus dry well at lower temps while smaller loads retain less heat and thus need more heat to dry).

The move to 105F default mainwashes seems just logical on a 120F hot water supply that has to be instantly at 120F for test cycles.
If you run one or two prewashes, under test conditions, the main wash fill shouldn't drop below 105F. Thus barely any, if any at all, heating is required.
With high detergent concentrations, lots of enzymes and lots of time, that should work perfectly.

I however think that somewhere in the sensor logic of WP machines, there is a path that raises the temperature automaticly to high temp levels.
I saw that some models have manuals that have "Light to Moderate", "Heavy" and "Baked on" listed next to usages. Thus, the machine senses at least 3 different soil conditions.
"Baked on" appears to work more like an extended soak mainwash as sometimes water usage is slightly lower compared to "Heavy" while cycle times appear mostly equal IIRC. Would make sense as to penetrate into crusty stuff. I suppose that is sensed via the soil sensor during main wash. I would guess that the machine waits for the detergent to dissolve, then takes a baseline turbidity reading. As baked on stuff won't come of during the short prewashes, it will now slowly dissolve and thus step by step increase turbidity during the main wash even though the prewashes showed little contamination. Thus, it decides stuff was baked on.
Heavy probably just uses lots of prewashes with a shorter and probably slightly hotter main wash. Logic being that "Heavy" just means lots of soil. As most just dried and not baked on stuff can be quickly rinsed of with pure water, the bigger amount of soil that starts that scenario is dissolved in the prewash stage. So if there is huge influx of soil during the prewashes, the "Heavy" path is chosen, with lots of water changes and a hot main wash to better combat high fat content soils.

Post# 969305 , Reply# 28   11/21/2017 at 20:57 (358 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Our 12 yr old Maytag heats to 155° with the sanitize option on. I believe the Hi Temp Wash option brings it to 140°. I couldn't fathom washing in any cooler than that. If I had my way it would be washing in 180° water.

I just put in a 75 gallon WH and keep it at 130° which seems plenty hot. I would love to have recirculation on the pipes but not easily doable without tearing stuff apart.

Post# 970351 , Reply# 29   11/28/2017 at 04:52 (352 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
While the "instant" hot water thanks to recirculatin

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Is rather nice, we at least now have another worry.

Thanks to all that constantly circulating very hot water, cold water taps are giving out water at around 100F. It takes ages of running the tap to purge all the "warm" water from pipes and bring in fresh from (presumably) outside the building.

For most other purposes don't really mind. However the Oko-Lavamat does not like "warm" cold water. It throws the programming off for various cycles because water heats faster than it should. So machine slices ten or more minutes of time off washing cycle to compensate.

Rinsing is not much of an issue other than things are coming out rather creased from being spun while still rather warm.

Post# 970359 , Reply# 30   11/28/2017 at 07:29 (352 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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I'd be ecstatic to have ten minutes slashed off the wash time!

I put a moderate load of clothes into the Panasonic - certainly not jam-packed and definitely not filthy. Machine decided to wash... and wash... and wash... for precisely 1hr 45mins. Rinsing and spinning took a further 45 minutes.

Two and a half hours to wash clothes - its no wonder clothes disintegrate.

Post# 970360 , Reply# 31   11/28/2017 at 07:36 (352 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"Cold water taps are giving out water at... 100F"

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Do you find that, on occasion, your cold water is full of minute air bubbles, like champagne?

Post# 970379 , Reply# 32   11/28/2017 at 10:47 (351 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Dishwasher temperature

The owners manual for our Whirlpool does not specify the temperatures for our specific GU2300 model, but other manuals state 120*F for the normal cycle. This is fine for loads that are already washed out quite well and just need a deeper cleaning. For the loads that I wash, I always specify high temp which boosts to 140*F. I find that this is necessary for plastics to remove coffee stains from Tervis cups and Spaghetti sauce from containers. Generally, I wash my hands before starting the dishwasher to pull some hot water to the dishwasher which is about 15 feet away from the heater. However, it may not have a big benefit since these new detergents rely heavily on Enzymes. Cooler water to start would in theory give the enzymes more time in lower temps to fully work at maximum potential. If it were my choice as well, it would be heating the water to 180*F! I am sure that some of these low fill dishwashers could achieve that during their long wash time.

Post# 970586 , Reply# 33   11/29/2017 at 10:27 (350 days old) by Real1 (Eastern WA)        

A true three pipe hot water recirculation loop will not affect the cold water. Aftermarket units like the Grundfos work/rely on pushing small amounts of hot water into the cold side...the reason for the undersink mixing valve that hot & cold supplies plug your furthest fixture from the WH.


When plumbing a new house, I always asked the owners if they wanted a instant hot water feature on their fixtures. So much easier at that point than relying on an aftermarket system that's not 100% perfect.  


Back in the day those old B&G recirculating pumps we installed were not energy efficient, not to mention every shop that installed them had to have a service tool box dedicated to them with brushes, mounts, oil and couplings. I can't even tell you how many of those pumps I serviced. All to be basically replaced by little inline pumps like Taco....which now rule the trades.



Post# 970648 , Reply# 34   11/29/2017 at 16:09 (350 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Enzymes in dishwasher detergents will help with protein based soils, but have nearly nil effect on the other large component of such soils; fats/greases/oils. For that you need alkaline pH .

In commercial settings dishes are pretty much pre-rinsed or even washed before going into the machine. Very hot water and alkaline pH detergents take care of the soiling. There are enzyme based products for institutional ware washing, but these IIRC are limited to soaking products meant for flatware.

More on circulating pumps:

System in ours does not have a timer or any such feature; it runs 24/7 constantly circulating water though the boilers to hot water lines. Am guessing for certain times of day and or overnight when there is low demand, that hot water just sits in pipes heating up surrounding area.

Post# 972863 , Reply# 35   12/10/2017 at 16:48 (339 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Thank you all for the great information

My hot water pipes, except for a short run to the upstairs bath are insulated. I think it would not be too hard to follow the path of the pipe that serves the kitchen to install a return for circulation and that would put hot water a short run from the bath. I think that the amount of water I will save by not bleeding cold water to get hot will be substantial, saving on water and water heating bills.

The only thing is that a timer control would be a PITA because my weekday and weekend schedules are so different. I have my Instant Hot on a timer with two different operating periods and would probably do the same for a recirculating system. It would be great to have full temperature water for every fill of the dishwasher.

Post# 972867 , Reply# 36   12/10/2017 at 17:11 (339 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Some recirculation pump system have remote controls that can be placed at strategic locations to run them on-demand.

Post# 972877 , Reply# 37   12/10/2017 at 19:02 (339 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thank you,Glenn.

Post# 972916 , Reply# 38   12/10/2017 at 23:54 (339 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

If you have any Smart devices you can easily have a smart outlet turn on and off at various times during the day and week.  Works if your scheduled is consistent.  You can pick up a Google assistant or an echo dot for $29 through the end of the year, and there are bargains out that on outlets that will work with either.

Post# 972918 , Reply# 39   12/10/2017 at 23:59 (339 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Just as an update, as I've been using the dishwasher more getting ready for the holidays I find the unit heats the water most of the time.  I run the tap to get hot water initially, but with the long cycles if I come back 30-40 minutes later the tap water is cool to warm, yet if Open the DW it's hot.  This leads me to think as suggested earlier in the thread that cycle times could be reduced if the need to heat the water was eliminated with recirculation.

Post# 972964 , Reply# 40   12/11/2017 at 09:10 (338 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thank you, Matt. I can also plug the pump into one of my timers to turn it on and off at various times.  On weekends, it would not be that hard to run downstairs while the tea is steeping and just turn the thing on. Nothing in my house is smart, beginning with the owner.

Post# 974702 , Reply# 41   12/20/2017 at 02:57 (330 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Using digital instant read thermometer

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Temperature of "cold" water coming out of tap was 101.4F. Took leaving water run for >8mins to get cold water (83F), and even longer still to reach the nice frigid water coming from outside building.

This does vary by time of day. During peak usage times (mornings through early evening) *frigid* cold water arrives almost at once after opening tap.

Post# 974724 , Reply# 42   12/20/2017 at 08:49 (329 days old) by Kindalazy (toronto)        

I’ve got a closed loop hot water system and is 200 foot run, with a new Grundfos Alpha pump. The old Grundfos had a remote, but inevitably I forgot to shut it off. The Alpha has the same technology as the Nest products in that it eventually figures out your usage patterns and adapts. I LOVE this product. I use the normal/hi-temp scrub, and sand rinse cycle on the dishwasher, and the pump comes really close to anticipating fill times. It took 2 weeks of “learning “but it works. Glad I have a smart home, cuz I’m not smart. I travel a fair bit and it’s nice to look inside/outside the house, control the lights, temperature etc from my tablet.

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