Thread Number: 73315  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
new dishwasher recommendation
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Post# 968441   11/16/2017 at 21:29 (366 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        

Hello everybody:
I am looking to replace my Frigidaire dishwasher that I bought last summer 2016 which I bought at sears, thinking it was one of the most iconic big brand names, thinking it would be built to last. Worst decision ever! When it did work, it did clean the dishes. The model is ffbd2411nw. The dishwasher show nothing but lights on. No fill, no spray, no drain, no heater, no detergent and rinse aid dispensing. Nothing. The pump would sometimes sound like it had a strain, emitting a strong electrical hum sound.
The features I want in a dishwasher are: 1. heavy duty interior. 2. powerful motor. 3. food chopper. 4. 10-year warranty. I'm starting to lean towards a Maytag. I was strongly against Maytag, until the horrid Frigidaire disaster changed everything. I don't like washing dishes by hand. I would like a dishwasher with the controls on the front in white. I believe that what's inside matters.
What are your thoughts?

Post# 968452 , Reply# 1   11/16/2017 at 22:29 (366 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Maytag is good, so are Whirlpool, LG and Bosch. Frigidaire are truly the bottom of the heap. Had one myself for a while. Whatever you get you need at least middle of the line on up toward the top of the line to get the best cleaning.

Post# 968458 , Reply# 2   11/16/2017 at 22:52 (366 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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GE, of course!  ;-)

Post# 968462 , Reply# 3   11/16/2017 at 23:09 (366 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

I'd at least try to unplugg the machine over night and plugging it in again the next morning.
Probably won't do much, but sometimes that makes these machines think again about quitting their jobs or at least gives you a few cycles before it happens again and thus some days to research a replacement.

Which lights are flashing exactly? Could be a fault code, and that might help to solve the problem without any actual repair.

Otherwise, the biggest competitor is Whirlpool, who builds the Maytags.
Especially on the lower end Maytags and Whirlpools, the differences are minor between these 2. Only really big thing is that instead of a chopper, the Whirlpool models all have a removable filter.

Maytag actually only has 2 models on their website currently.
While they are priced differently and have different model numbers, a quick look at the manuals and a little comparison using the compare feature reveals the only difference is the racking, and even there only minorly. The base machine is the same.
The cheaper one is actually quieter and has one place setting more space rated then the 50$ more expensive one.
They list a 10 year limited parts manual. Don't be fooled by that. That only covers the part cost and only for the racks, the stainless steal tank and the chopper blade. These parts rarely ever fail, and even if they do, the warranty states that you have to have these replaced by an authorized service technician. And as labour cost isn't covered, you still have to pay for the service call.

For 50$ (MSRP) less then the cheaper Maytags, you can get the Whirlpool branded version of the same base machine:
That gets obvious if you look at the manuals and the pictures of the controll panels site by site: Same cycles, same cycle times, same usages per cycle, same changes for the options, exact same layout of the controls etc.
Racking should be the same as well. It however lacks the (almost useless) 10 year warranty thing.
It also has ice blue controll panel indicators compared to the amber once on the Maytags, and in my opinion, on a white machine, the blue ones look cooler.

If it's between these 3, I'd get whichever you can get the cheapest at your store of choice.

If you don't care for a cycle time countdown and a stainless steal tub, Whirlpool makes other models at a way better value. There are 4 models priced between 379$ MSRP and 499$ MSRP that I'll link and discuss in order from cheapest to most expensive (keep in mind the Frigidaire you have is 399$ MSRP currently):


This cheapest machine at 379$ has only 3 cycles (Heavy, Normal, 1-hour wash), one option (High Temp main wash at 135F) and a 4 hour start delay.
It has verry basic racking with 0 ajustments, the most basic cuttlery basket and generally nothing more then the most basic interior.
Cycle times and usage are the same as the Maytags\Whirlpool, thus one assumes the same cycles are used.
It however lacks any nois insulation and thus is rated at 63dB. For comparison, you current DW is 55dB, the Maytags are 50 or 47, the Whirlpool version of the Maytags is 54. Due to the dB scale being weired, an increase by 5dB means the noise appears 2-4 times as loud. 63dB is about the noise inside a car at about 60-70mph.
I wouldn't recomend it.


Same machine with only 2 differences:
a) They added those little foldable plastic cup shelfes on the sides of the top rack.
b) Noise level is 55dB, so the same as your current machine.

With its features, specs and MSRP of 399$, this would be an equal replacement to your current machine and certanly a better pick then the 379$ Whirlpool model simply due to the immense noise reduction.
(Side note: In this link, the first picture showing the entire front of the machine is not the correct one. It shows a model with Sani Rinse option. The picture showing just the control panel shows the actual control panel layout used on this machine.)


This machine is labeled at 449$.

Noise stays the same, however, it has a few verry neat add-ons compared to the next cheaper model.
In terms of racking, the big thing that changed is the cuttlery basket. It now has lids with dividers which improof cleaning by a lot, and even more, it can be mounted either in the lower rack or in the door. Positions can be easily changed by requirements or prefference. Adds basicly an entire extra row of space to the bottom rack.
Further, the Soak&Clean cycle has been added. A cycle designed to be run over night (it takes 7:31h) verry simmilar to the Heavy cycle, however, the prewash and first stage of the main wash are extended by a lot. This is supposed to replace soaking of burned in stuff over night manualy in a sink. Should work, never heared of anybody using it though.
And, finally, this model has the one basic option any DW should have: Sani Rinse. It also has the High Temp wash option as the previous models. The Sani Rinse option raises the main wash temperature to 135F just as High Temp does, but it further boosts the final rinse from 140F to 156F. This sanitizes dishes and helps with drying and if occasionally used makes sure that there is no stink from bacteria in your kitchen sink (if the drain is hooked up to it).

That would be the model I'd buy TBH.


Priced at 499$, this model has little to offer over the 449$ model number 3.
It is slightly quieter at 53dB. The racking appears to be the same though.
The cycles are still the exact same as model 3, it adds a Sensor Wash cycle though. Keep in mind that all Whirlpool machines have a soil sensor that is always used on the Normal cycle anyways.
This cycle is more tailored towards everyday loads. Compared to the Normal cycle it uses a little more water by default, takes a little longer if the lowest soil level is sensed and is programmed to be less frugal in general, meaning that where the Normal cycle would be preferring not to run a prewash because the soil level is sensed at just below the cut off, the Sensor Wash would be more likely to run another prewash to ensure proper cleaning.
The maximum version of Normal and Sensor Wash (meaning maximum number of prewashes and post wash rinses as well as hotest and longest main wash due to highest soil level sensed) are simmilar though.

Given all that, I'd go with model number 3.

Post# 968471 , Reply# 4   11/17/2017 at 00:26 (366 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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I'd have to look again on the floor but the 520 doesn't have the spray mounted to the top of the tub.

Post# 968477 , Reply# 5   11/17/2017 at 04:36 (366 days old) by westingguelph ()        

I have the WDF330 model mentioned in item 2 of henene4's post. Just got it several months ago and love it. No it doesn't have a 3rd wash arm on top but it doesn't seem to matter. Everything comes beautifully clean. It has the removable filter and there are no yibbles and bits left. The water in our building is 160F and I use Finish Quantum and rinse aid. The results are perfect. I don't notice that this machine any noisier than the Maytag Quiet Clean model it replaced. Really easy to load compared to the Maytag which had some strange racking configurations.

Post# 968506 , Reply# 6   11/17/2017 at 09:53 (366 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        
Re; Reply #5

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We also have this same Whirlpool dishwasher that we bought about 6 months ago, and I love it too. I always use the 1 hour cycle with heated dry and everything comes out clean. I do very little rinsing and usually only run it every other day, so the food gets dried on pretty good, but this has never been a problem, it all comes off. I would recommend this dishwasher to anyone that wants a simple, good, no nonsense dishwasher at an excellent price.

Post# 968507 , Reply# 7   11/17/2017 at 10:06 (366 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
no codes

There are no codes on the Frigidaire. The lights come on if it was acting normal. Most of the dishwashers that I've had featured a hard food disposer. That's what I would want in a dishwasher.

Post# 968520 , Reply# 8   11/17/2017 at 11:14 (366 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Hard Food Disposer?...W T H are you washing?....chicken bones?

I think you should take the list with you to the store this time!....

Heavy Duty interior?.....there are only two options basically, Plastic or Stainless...for Porcelain, you may have to go vintage....

for the most part, you probably got a dud with the Frigidaire, granted not the best, but there are plenty out there that work just fine....

you could buy TOL Whirlpool/KitchenAid/Bosch, etc....and still have an issue somewhere along the lines...

buying machines today is a gamble of 50/ that box of chocolates, you don't know what your going to get....

Good Luck in your next purchase...

Post# 968530 , Reply# 9   11/17/2017 at 11:26 (366 days old) by washerdude (Canada )        

AVOID WP dishwashers with the alternating spray arms. They have a dumb diverter valve which will leak after a while and the worst part is, you will never know its happening.

A general rule of thumb I keep is if purchasing a WP dw, make sure there are only 2 spray arms and has a plastic tub. Unless you want a stainless steel tub, then all Maytag models are good.

Post# 968532 , Reply# 10   11/17/2017 at 12:39 (366 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
pump design

That's what I want to avoid due to the pump design. When I looked underneath dishwashers at sears, most of them had small flimsy pumps. That should've been my first clue. I do not like the alternating pump design due to the fact that they take forever for the water to get to the top rack sometimes, compromising the cleaning power, not to mention the problems you stated about the diverter leaking. I don't like cleaning filters in dishwashers. I'd like to hear a real motor behind the scenes along with all spray arms operational at all times. What options will show for each cycle on the Maytag when I push the cycle buttons? Thanks for your insite.

Post# 968533 , Reply# 11   11/17/2017 at 12:43 (366 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
what I wash

I don't wash chicken bones in a dishwasher. I just don't like prerinsing, therefore defeating the purpose in a dishwasher. All I know is scrape and load, or just load it when I'm done eating breakfast, lunch and dinner. When I say heavy-duty interior, I mean it. I expect my dishwashers to take on whatever I throw at it.

Post# 968540 , Reply# 12   11/17/2017 at 13:28 (366 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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you might want to really consider a somewhat vintage Kenmore UltraWash or a Kitchen Aid....

where else can you toss in a whole chocolate frosted cake, and have it gone at the end of cycle, basically less than an hour?...

food for thought, I have done this about 6 times.....

I am with you on that one, I am not one to pre-rinse, just scrape off the heavy stuff, and toss it in....even if it sits in there for a few days between cycles, everything is immaculate when its done...

my newer KitchenAid TallTub is equal to the task.....and were also talking major capacity....I lucked out with Stainless inside and out...this is a Sensor wash machine, it operates best if the dishes are dirty to start with...

Post# 968554 , Reply# 13   11/17/2017 at 14:10 (366 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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If you get a dishwasher with a decent filtration system, the filtration system will handle non-rinsed dishes ... That being said, decent filtration doesn't exist under 699.

Also, in regards to alternating wash arms... Dishwashers are mandated to not use more than a certain amount of water. That small amount of water has to do a lot more. If you power all three wash arms, you need more water. If you power one then two wash arms, you need less water, plus a smaller pump to get the same pressure.

Post# 968557 , Reply# 14   11/17/2017 at 14:40 (366 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
inner workings

When I look for a dishwasher, I want one that has a 4-bladed chopper in it. The last thing I want to do is clean a filter. I want a motor that is big and powerful, and is built to handle the toughest jobs of today. I'm really starting to look into Maytag after I saw how big their motors were in their new dishwashers. I believe that Whirlpool is improving Maytag.

Post# 968572 , Reply# 15   11/17/2017 at 16:10 (366 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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You're right, having a removable filter to clean is much less convenient than a chopper assembly.

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Post# 968598 , Reply# 16   11/17/2017 at 18:44 (365 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I've had the DW the op is looking for - a GE PDW7800 had all he was looking for.  But--- nothing like it exists anymore.  The KA I posted about in the Hot Water thread works as well if not better than the GE.  There are a few things I miss about the GE but not enough to do the repair and put it back into service as a daily driver.  Odds are it will join the other 2 DWs I have in the basement, not sure if I will hook it up permanently as the old WP "Hurricane in a Box" has that honor now.  It will take paint off stuff. 

Post# 968642 , Reply# 17   11/18/2017 at 02:40 (365 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Dishwashers with filters-I DON'T want to have to clean a NASTY filter each time I have to use the machine-or should I let the roaches do it for me!I have to prerinse-or other wise I get a roach wash cycle.If I have to clean the gross filters----will just continue to wash dishes by hand.I looked at the LG dishwasher at Lowes would like to get more about it.Will see which ones Best Buy has.If this washer can dispose of food waste BY ITSELF will consider it!

Post# 968648 , Reply# 18   11/18/2017 at 03:19 (365 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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A properly designed filtration system is self-flushing.

A disposer-based system takes all the debris and chops it up then redistributes it throughout the machine.

There is a reason only one company still sells a metal bladed chopper assembly.

I pull my filter once a month to check it and I have not had to scrub or empty it. I have rinsed it off because there was cat hair in it, but that always wrapped around the chopper assembly in my maytag. I put some nasty dishes in my dishwasher as well.

Post# 968657 , Reply# 19   11/18/2017 at 06:30 (365 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

That is what I would want a self cleaning filter if I have to have such a thing.

Post# 968659 , Reply# 20   11/18/2017 at 06:32 (365 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

At the same time don't want my dishes "washed"with shredded food remains.Isn't this defeating our purpose?Want the food waste flushed AWAY rather than sprayed on my dishes which I am trying to clean.

Post# 968687 , Reply# 21   11/18/2017 at 09:50 (365 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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My Maytag gets rid of everything I put in it, there's not a thing that it can't do...

-- Dave

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Post# 968705 , Reply# 22   11/18/2017 at 12:02 (365 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Reply #15

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The picture of a clogged sizing plate is from a DW with a broken chopper, the sizing plate NEVER looks like that in a working DW and NEVER needs cleaning.

John L.

Post# 968721 , Reply# 23   11/18/2017 at 13:51 (365 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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*calmly deletes his previous post*

A dishwasher that is used PROPERLY shouldn't have buildup like that, but it DOES happen. It is not an every day occurrence though.

The most common problem we see with these types of systems is stickers left on things.

They get past the blades and stick to the screen and cause all sorts of issues.

Post# 968725 , Reply# 24   11/18/2017 at 14:21 (365 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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There are some very FINE dishwashers out there today, as so many have already said.
WP's filter cut system is very good and very mature.
To the point where in their manual they don't even recommend you cleaning the filter cub except every 3-6-12 months!!!! Depending on how nasty you load up your machine.

With that said, historic context taken into consideration, I don't think the OP at all will be happy with anything new on the market.
Listing such tight specifics as a 4 blade chopper, and a "big" motor pretty much sets you up for a new Maytag machine ONLY.
And even then, OP probably won't like it, because it's not a Point Voyager platform, that he's ohh so gone on about in the past.

Therefore, Jerome, I recommend you look exclusively for a used, almost vintage Point Voyager machine of any brand. Be it WP, Kenmore, KA, Maytag etc.
You could also get a [now vintage] KA or Maytag, with beefy motors and grinders.

Here's some examples:

Post# 968777 , Reply# 25   11/18/2017 at 16:56 (365 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Blocked Sizing Plate In A WP Built DW

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Hi Joshua, The first picture you posted of a clogged sizing plate had a BROKEN GRINDER BLADE, it was NOT turning, It has NOTHING to do with how the DW was being used, the sizing plate will clog like the one in your picture even if the dishes are 90% rinsed off in just a few loads if the grinding blade is NOT turning, and only if it is not turning.

This is the most popular design DW in our area, almost every other one of our customers have a DW that has a pump like this. We work on hundreds of these machines every year and we NEVER see clogged sizing plates like this unless the grinder blade drive is BROKEN.

One of these DWs will not wash dishes properly even 6 times with a broken grinder drive blade without clogging.

John L.

Post# 968805 , Reply# 26   11/18/2017 at 19:13 (364 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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well keep searching.....we find new un-used, still in box or crated machines every now and this one I picked up for Mark....had to go to Philly to get it, will store it here in Jersey...and eventually it will make it home to North Carolina...

if you find a dream machine, distance is but a road trip....

I think you will be more than happy with a Maytag(JennAir) Revers-a-Rack.....that full size motor alone should sell you....


Post# 968808 , Reply# 27   11/18/2017 at 19:25 (364 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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plus Mark found this Lady Kenmore.....again, never used or installed....I don't recall exactly, but I think both machines asking price was around 50.00 each...

as Dory would say, 'just keep searching, searching, searching'...

the Kenmore UltraWash machines are another great choice in dishwashers fitting your list...

as with both machines, the interiors are porcelain....and well insulated


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