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Thread Number: 73425
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
PROOF That H.E. Washers DON'T Save Water! |
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Post# 969615 11/23/2017 at 23:01 (2,337 days old) by chetlaham  (United States) |
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Came across this. As much as I wish it were true, my personal observation is that his conclusion is flat out wrong. For one a top load washer with clothes will fill with less water as the clothes displace said water triggering the pressure switch on actual water level height- not measured gallons. Second- the HE washer. That is not an HE fill. A deep fill yes- but not an HE fill. No HE fill uses that much water. Further multiplying by two is also incorrect even for a deep fill in that on many HE machines the rinse is a spray rinse rather than a second deep fill. All in all the second video is seriously flawed and the conclusions reached in the first one are wrong. The comments agreeing are disheartening. Would not surprise me if ones call the video out as wrong were deleted as I see few to none.
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Post# 969616 , Reply# 1 11/23/2017 at 23:28 (2,337 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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And FWIW, can someone inject some truth and likes into the comment section? Hate to see average folks being mislead.
"11 treehuggers had a stroke after watching this video." Um no, perhaps they know your conclusion is wrong? "jaykay18 America has many stupid traditions aside from washing machine designs and imperial system..." "Don't go bashing another country if you don't live there." (3 like) Well guess what, I live here so therefore I can bash. HE machines run on HE cycles use less water than traditional top load machines. Europe got that right, US has it wrong in that regard. Instead of totting an ego, maybe you can lower your defense mechanisms and learn something? Rant over- just hate seeing the subversion of truth. | ||
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Post# 969627 , Reply# 2 11/24/2017 at 05:22 (2,337 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 969628 , Reply# 3 11/24/2017 at 05:32 (2,337 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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| Post# 969632 , Reply# 4 11/24/2017 at 06:51 (2,337 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH) | ||
HE washers have morphed a bit in the last couple of years to be more versatile, probably due to consumer complaints. Seems as though now you can pick HE or non-HE on most machines, at least for certain cycles. But I think most washers that offer auto load sensing are considered HE machines, in the sense that they don't use more water by default.
I've had my FP WashSmart for almost a month now and its technically not considered an HE machine. It does offer auto load sensing AND manual control. The auto sensing def uses less water and when combined with the spray rinse, uses A LOT less water. It basically fills with just enough water to suspend the items, and I wouldn't compare it to typical HE water levels. It uses more water. Wash action is noticeably different using auto...it looks more like the GE Hydrowave...moving clothes side to side, then down, rollover is therefore slower...where as using manual water level it has traditional wash action, more downward and back up. I don't watch most of the videos like you posted. I find these people to be a bit fanatically about disproving anything modern. It gets old. :-/ | ||
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Post# 969642 , Reply# 6 11/24/2017 at 09:02 (2,337 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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JoeyPete is right.....this gets old.....
this is one subject that will go on and on like beating a dead horse.... no one is going to change my mind, no more than someone trying to change yours... we do our own investigations, come to our own conclusions, and leave it at that.... you either like it, or you don't..... you can't call any machine an HE if your not operating in HE MODE!.... my Cabrio has an EcoMonitor, there are four lights....as 'Normal' is selected and specific defaults are in place....as you start to add options, hot wash, deep fill wash and rinse, etc, the lights start going off, and your heading towards poor energy savings.... YMMV | ||
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Post# 969644 , Reply# 7 11/24/2017 at 09:13 (2,337 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 969654 , Reply# 8 11/24/2017 at 10:51 (2,337 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Thank you Joeypete and Martin! This is a topic that will never be resolved for those that don’t like HE TL’s.
So, if you don’t like them, don’t but one! I am confused though why there are so many complaints about these washers using so much water on Deep Fill? I would think that if the haters of this type of washer would be happy that there was an option for filling with more water when it is neccesary, seems like the best of both worlds to me. Its not always necessary to have a complete deep fill with the way these machines are designed to operate. I find that my Maytag Centennial HE TL does an excellent job cleaning all types of loads, due to its adapatability and flexibility. I can wash 2 kingsize pillows at once, or a kingsize heavy bedspread or comforter and these all come at spotlessly clean. So if you haven’t tried one, don’t knock it, you may be pleasantly surprised one day when you finally do use one. I wouldn’t think of dissing your choice of brand or style of washer. Use what is best for you and enjoy them, its still a free country. And this statement was meant with no disrespect. Eddie | ||
| Post# 969661 , Reply# 9 11/24/2017 at 12:31 (2,337 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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A mind is a terrible thing to waste | ||
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Post# 969663 , Reply# 10 11/24/2017 at 13:18 (2,337 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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A mind is a terrible thing to waste | ||
| Post# 969665 , Reply# 11 11/24/2017 at 13:58 (2,337 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US) | ||
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Post# 969666 , Reply# 12 11/24/2017 at 14:12 (2,337 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 969677 , Reply# 13 11/24/2017 at 15:56 (2,336 days old) by lotsosudz (Sacramento, CA) |
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I Agree with Bob | ||
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Post# 969679 , Reply# 14 11/24/2017 at 16:09 (2,336 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 969836 , Reply# 17 11/25/2017 at 09:09 (2,336 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
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| Post# 969837 , Reply# 18 11/25/2017 at 09:19 (2,336 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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I have common sense.
I think. | ||
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Post# 969840 , Reply# 19 11/25/2017 at 09:51 (2,336 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Post# 969841 , Reply# 20 11/25/2017 at 09:57 (2,336 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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@Washman | ||
| Post# 969865 , Reply# 21 11/25/2017 at 12:52 (2,336 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Post# 969869 , Reply# 22 11/25/2017 at 13:16 (2,336 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI) |
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What's less automatic about tossing ones clothes in, putting detergent in a drawer and pressing a button? | ||
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Post# 969871 , Reply# 23 11/25/2017 at 13:22 (2,336 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 969876 , Reply# 24 11/25/2017 at 13:44 (2,336 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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HELLO!!! | ||
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Post# 969877 , Reply# 25 11/25/2017 at 13:46 (2,336 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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| Post# 969883 , Reply# 26 11/25/2017 at 13:52 (2,336 days old) by agiflow2 () | ||
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Maytag85 ... maybe you meant not as "iconic" as a top load washer? | ||
| Post# 969897 , Reply# 27 11/25/2017 at 15:00 (2,336 days old) by washman (o) | ||
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I also have C9 holiday light bulbs | ||
| Post# 969905 , Reply# 28 11/25/2017 at 15:28 (2,336 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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1. Top loaders can get a fairly large load cleaned in about 30-35 minutes, or even less time than that.
2. Front loaders don't clean as well as a traditional top load washer. 3. Traditional top loaders are cheaper to buy, and are more reliable than a newer front loader. 4. Front loaders are difficult to repair, and require a lot of labor to repair. 5. You can use any detergent you want in a traditional top load washer. 6. Detergent choices are limited when you have a front loader, or any HE washer. 7. Top loaders plain work, and do what they are supposed to do. | ||
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Post# 969906 , Reply# 29 11/25/2017 at 15:33 (2,336 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 969931 , Reply# 30 11/25/2017 at 16:38 (2,335 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Maytag85, the points you listed are not related to the term automatic. Taken for what the points are: 1) Maybe. 2) Both types can clean nicely but a frontloader that can do a profile wash by way of onboard water heating is hard for a toploader to beat. 3) Low-end toploaders are less cost but there are low- and mid-line frontloaders that cost less than the highly-respected SQ toploaders. 4) Not always. 5) True. 6) Limited to an increasingly lesser degree being that non-HE detergents seem to be disappearing from the market. 7) Both types perform the intended function. | ||
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Post# 969949 , Reply# 32 11/25/2017 at 18:04 (2,335 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 969958 , Reply# 33 11/25/2017 at 18:52 (2,335 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Post# 969962 , Reply# 34 11/25/2017 at 20:09 (2,335 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 969970 , Reply# 36 11/25/2017 at 20:50 (2,335 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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| Post# 969977 , Reply# 37 11/25/2017 at 21:17 (2,335 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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Forgot to mention... these 3 machines all ran similar wash times:53 min. cabrio,45 He3,and SQ probably ~45 min. | ||
| Post# 969997 , Reply# 40 11/25/2017 at 23:12 (2,335 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
What this thread became...
I had a feeling of dread and mortification whilst reading this thread, I know Sean has opposing beliefs to most here and very often voices them even if they are based on incorrect logic at times, but there is no need for everyone to be rude in their counter-arguments or to go as far as to claim to block him from appearing in threads they read.
To make a comparison that I could be set on fire for, NOBODY criticizes Hans(norgeway) for his differing opinions to everyone else or but people feel free to pile on Sean(Maytag85). I have a deep respect for both! | ||
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Post# 970008 , Reply# 41 11/26/2017 at 00:11 (2,335 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Blocking people
There is some deep, unchecked elitism that runs rampant on this forum. I disagree with others all the time; but I don't become rude, insult their intelligence or put them on my ignore list. I agree to disagree what ever the reason may be. Somehow people mix up respecting other's feeling/opinions/observations/knowledge as agreeing with them which is not the case.
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| Post# 970010 , Reply# 42 11/26/2017 at 00:24 (2,335 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
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Eliteism indeed...
I, too have noticed it. There are times I feel as if my posts are ignored because I'm not one of, shall we say, the popular members, and I've seen it done to others too.
I can see why some have decided to abandon the forum, I stay because there is so much to like about this forum too. The are many smart people here that are glad to help and have gave so much information, these people are why I stay and regularly read. | ||
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Post# 970018 , Reply# 43 11/26/2017 at 02:50 (2,335 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Well, there really is a difference between Hans and Sean. Hans sounds like a broken record sometimes but his remarks are based on emotion and love for older appliances, the reason why this website excists. So I can understand that. Sean however continues to feed the frontloader vs toploader discussion with false arguments. I understand very well why people like toploaders or frontloaders, but the discussion of which type is better has been beaten to death hundreds of times. Every time I read that discussion I think: Please! Not again! I posted in another thread: And never the twain shall meet. I wish we could bury that discussion and respect eachother's opinion on the toploader vs frontloader preference. But I've pretty much lost my hope that that will happen.
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| Post# 970019 , Reply# 44 11/26/2017 at 03:13 (2,335 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
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I partially agree with you,
but the HE vs non HE discussion was going long before Sean showed up in this thread; just look at the title. What did happen when Sean joined the argument was everyone immediately dropped what they were doing and took aim at him. It is certainly fair to counter his claims, but it was done in such a condescending tone that was completely unnecessary and very rude.
Also, when he says things unrelated to this sort of controversy inducing debate, people are still rude to him. For example, when he posted about wanting a Maytag HOH dryer, everyone told him he was foolish to want one. And that is coming from people who themselves own 50 year old appliances. Isn't that the point of the forum? | ||
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Post# 970020 , Reply# 45 11/26/2017 at 03:33 (2,335 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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I have only two words to say: Rolling eyes. | ||
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Post# 970021 , Reply# 46 11/26/2017 at 03:48 (2,335 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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And thats the second part of the problem- some people just don't care thats its happening.
@SpeedQueen: Yup, and spot on. I see and feel the same way. But like you the love and appreciation for both old and new keeps me coming back as well as the smart people who post here. Smart people who I think don't get enough credit. | ||
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Post# 970026 , Reply# 47 11/26/2017 at 04:30 (2,335 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
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Just see at as in More room for clothes! | ||
| Post# 970122 , Reply# 50 11/26/2017 at 16:36 (2,334 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
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Thanks Paulo,
For injecting a bit of sanity here. I do appreciate how you explain your rational. I'm still laughing at the rhubarb pie analogy.
People can counter what Sean said all they want but carrying a disdain into anything he writes on other threads is where I draw the line. I reiterate what I said regarding what others told him when he mentioned wanting a Maytag HOH dryer. They told him he was foolish to wan one and argued with him just to do that, argue. | ||
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