Thread Number: 73454  /  Tag: Recipes, Cooking Accessories
Frigilux - Damn Good Cinnamon Rolls in the Bosch Universal Plus Mixer?
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Post# 969966   11/25/2017 at 20:38 (301 days old) by westtexman (Lubbock, Texas)        

I have wanted a Bosch Universal Plus Mixer for quite a while, so I bought myself one as an early Christmas present. I also bought the dough hook extender so I can do smaller batches as well.

I want to make a batch of Eugene’s Damn Good Cinnamon Rolls tomorrow, and was wondering if I could skip the first rise if I make them in the Bosch? I figure if you can make whole wheat bread with only one rise, you could probably do the same with these, but I thought I’d ask.

Thoughts? Eugene - What sayeth thee?

Post# 969984 , Reply# 1   11/25/2017 at 21:35 (301 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)        

I bought my first Bosch mixer in college in 1978, sold in this country by Magic Mill as the 'Magic Mixer'. I still have it! It's had thousands of loaves of whole wheat bread made with w.w. flour milled by me. I still own 3 mills, usually buy my wheat from either Wheat Montana or Pleasant Hill Grain. I now own 4 Bosch Universals, including the rare all-electronic model. Though I also own the Electrolux/Ankarsrum mixer, I prefer the Bosch machines.

Back in the old days, when you got a new Bosch, you got a fantastic cookbook, "The Magic of Wheat Cookery" by Lorraine Dilworth Tyler. They come up often on EBay--buy a copy, they're not expensive. Probably the best all around whole wheat cookbook I've ever seen, and I own a couple dozen wheat cookbooks. See pix below. There's a recipe in there for whole wheat cinnamon rolls; it's been some time since I made them, but I certainly did in the past.

Though you can't get them in all those silly colors, I remain mystified by Americans buying those overpriced, weak KA mixers, and having to look around the hot, smelly motor just to see their food. KA went straight downhill after Hobart sold them, just like their dishwashers.

I'm going to scan a whole wheat angel food cake that is really good. I've made it dozens of times. People think you can't use whole wheat flour for such as cakes and the cinnamon rolls you want to bake. They're dead wrong.

With your new Universal, you can easily and economically make gluten as a meat substitute or for mixing with meat for a healthier alternative. As it has basically no flavor, it'll take on the flavor and texture of meat, a lot like TVP. Remember--gluten is just the alternative name for seitan, which is so popular in some Asian cooking. I've eaten amazing seitan in Asian restaurants, and own three seitan cookbooks. Easy to make, inexpensive, and you don't have to worry about mad cow disease!

I've included a few recipes below from this book. As you can see from the Universal made in the 70's and into the 80's, there are only two speeds plus pulse, whereas your new Universal has 4 speeds. But that's easy to adjust, of course.

Go on EBay and get this book, you won't regret it...

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Post# 969987 , Reply# 2   11/25/2017 at 21:43 (301 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)        
Another Great Wheat Cookbook

is the book below by LeArta Moulton. She's been famous for a few decades among Mormons and others into whole wheat cookery, and put out a gluten cookbook. She's got a few videos on YouTube.

I've scanned her recipes for 'Quick Rolls and Buns'. These are great and I have made the cinnamon roll variation shown here.

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Post# 969988 , Reply# 3   11/25/2017 at 21:49 (301 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)        
Another Excellent Wheat Cookbook

This is the well-known Wheat Montana cookbook. I can vouch for the high quality of their red and white wheat, have bought from them for many years.

I've made this recipe for cinnamon rolls with white whole wheat flour that I ground myself. I know you can get whole wheat white flour in the grocery store now.

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Post# 969990 , Reply# 4   11/25/2017 at 21:57 (301 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        


I have not made cinnamon rolls, but I've made a lot of bread -- I have used the food processor, the Bosch Universal Plus and the Electrolux Assistent, depending on the size of the batch. This will also work on a traditional KA mixer, but the batches are smaller then.

The trick is that if you skip "proofing" instant yeast (also sold as "machine bread yeast"), and use warm water when you are making the bread, the first rise can be shortened to 10-15 minutes, which is usually the time most people are finding and preparing the bread pans etc. This is mostly so the dough will relax and make it easier to form. Then you can go straight into the second rise and bake.

Another trick, is that if you have a microwave with inverter technology (that is, one that varies the power level instead of just on/off cycling), you can use the microwave to do the second rise in very little time by just putting the dough in pyrex pans and then nuking the pans (2-3 at a time) for one minute at 10% and rest for a minute, repeat until the total time (including resting) is 10-15 minutes, the dough will keep at about 80-90F and rise until it's just at the pan top, then it can be put in the regular oven to bake. When the rest period of one minute is over, turn the pans around so the sides that were facing the center now face the walls of the nuker before you start the next cycle.

The reason people say the Bosch kitchen machine is good at this is because it mixes the dough really well and tends to develop the gluten better than other mixers.

Good luck!

Post# 969991 , Reply# 5   11/25/2017 at 22:03 (301 days old) by Petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
also have a Universal now for about 15 years. Along with a few accessories like the slicer blender,2 sets of wire whisks , cookie paddles and a rare centri.fugal juicer. Can't say enough good about it. It's been worth every penny.

Post# 970031 , Reply# 6   11/26/2017 at 06:18 (301 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Hi Bryan-- Most current dough recipes using yeast as the rising agent employ a 'single rise method' (cover kneaded dough in greased bowl; let rise 'til nearly double in bulk; deflate; form into rolls/loaves; cover and let rise in baking pan). The 'pan rise' is usually much quicker--15-20 minutes.

Many older recipes call for a double rise (cover kneaded dough in greased bowl; let rise; deflate; let rise; deflate; form into rolls/loaves; cover and let rise in baking pan).

The terminology can be confusing because the single-rise method requires a bowl rise and an in-the-pan rise, while the double-rise method calls for two rises in the bowl and one in the pan.

Rising (again, when the recipe calls for yeast) helps develop flavor and makes the finished product lighter. I've never tried just rolling out the kneaded dough and skipping the 'bowl rise.' Skipping the bowl rise would most likely result in heavy, rubbery, chewy rolls.

You can speed up the process, as was mentioned above, by placing the covered bowl of kneaded dough in a warm oven. Be careful, though; I've let the bowl get too warm and the dough has begun to 'cook' on top.

Cook's Illustrated has a recipe for Quick Cinnamon Rolls that uses baking powder rather than yeast. The rising process is eliminated entirely: Roll out the very briefly kneaded dough; form them into rolls; place in pan; bake. I've never tried that method, but an America's Test Kitchen/Cook's Illustrated recipe has never let me down, so I trust that the results would be tasty but perhaps more biscuit-like in texture. I've provided a link to a site that printed the quick-version CI/ATK recipe.


This post was last edited 11/26/2017 at 06:43
Post# 970117 , Reply# 7   11/26/2017 at 16:06 (300 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

Many older recipes call for a double rise (cover kneaded dough in greased bowl; let rise; deflate; let rise; deflate; form into rolls/loaves; cover and let rise in baking pan).


Dumb question...but was a double rise in the bowl common for sweet/cinnamon rolls? I have a vague haunting memory that maybe that was how my grandmother did it...


With regular bread, it seems like almost every recipe I've seen is one rise in the bowl. Although, admittedly, I haven't made a vast study. But I once baked regularly, and did a variety of recipes from a variety of sources.


Post# 970120 , Reply# 8   11/26/2017 at 16:26 (300 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)        
Single vs Double vs Triple Rise

One of the best reasons to do more than one rise on yeast breads is that it changes the texture of the finished loaf. The more rises, the smoother and finer the crumb will be.

I can remember how people would love the local clover leaf rolls that a local Houston cafeteria was famous for. Finally, Ann Criswell, the Houston Chronicle's food critic for decades, put out the recipe in the paper about 50 years ago. The reason the rolls were so perfect and un-bread-like on the inside was simply that they were given no rises at all! They were kneaded and baked right from the get-go with no separate rise, and it left the inside of the rolls with that wispy sort of interior that patrons loved.

Too many risings on cinnamon roll dough will leave rolls with more of a bread texture than what most people consider desirable.

I'd suggest anyone on here really curious about bread(s) should go to the great forum, I've belonged for many, many years and it's a great place to learn and share knowledge.

Post# 970121 , Reply# 9   11/26/2017 at 16:32 (300 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

John (LordKenmore):

My impression is that it depends quite heavily on when the recipe was published, and after that, where the recipe was published.

The more recent yeasts (active dry yeast and instant/machine bread yeast) do not need to be proofed if they are stored properly and before the expiration date. So, many publications aimed at the commercial market just omit proofing altogether, while many publications still do because they do not want to be receiving annoying mail complaining about their recipes when it was dead/old yeast to begin with.

Multiple long rises helped in an era when mixers where not available to most or even anyone, because it develops gluten that nowadays we can get by mixing mechanically. Proofing the yeast lets go of an awful lot of the gas that could be helping the dough rise, so many commercial places skip it.

Long rises can and do change the flavor profile, but in my opinion, not always for the best. It's great for things like sourdough bread, but not so nice in sandwich bread or even breads that are sweet, like cinnamon rolls. The lightness comes from well developed gluten and enough gas produced by the yeast and as long as one doesn't use so much yeast that it changes the flavor too, you'll be all set.

The other thing I've heard a lot, but have not yet tested personally -- breads that take a lot of sugar can make it hard for the yeast to multiply and rise the dough. There are special yeasts that are sold for that particular purpose and provide a more sure rise, SAF Gold instant yeast being one of them. (Link below)

Have fun,
   -- Paulo.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO earthling177's LINK

Post# 970123 , Reply# 10   11/26/2017 at 16:46 (300 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

One of the best reasons to do more than one rise on yeast breads is that it changes the texture of the finished loaf


Plus it's been argued by some that the rising process also improves overall flavor. IIRC, one Julia Child's "secrets" to French bread was how the rises were done. She had 2 bowl rises, and they were slow to give time for maximum flavor. 


Although flavor of the bread portion is probably not a huge consideration when making many sweet rolls. There is so much else in the finished roll that adds taste that the bread taste itself seems likely to be unnoticeable...



Post# 970126 , Reply# 11   11/26/2017 at 16:57 (300 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

Thanks, Paulo for your post! Interesting information. One thing I now consciously knowledge base is probably pretty ancient. I started baking with a recipe from a 1960s Fannie Farmer. Newest bread book I've seriously read/used is the 1970s Beard on Bread. All this is at least 40+ years old now (and who knows what Fannie Farmer edition first had that recipe I started with...).

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