Thread Number: 73461
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Washers with timed fill |
[Down to Last] |
Post# 970074   11/26/2017 at 10:48 (2,314 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
|
Post# 970077 , Reply# 1   11/26/2017 at 11:10 (2,314 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 970082 , Reply# 2   11/26/2017 at 11:47 (2,314 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
Wow, this will be quite a list... lol Rule of thumb - if the washer had a solid tub, it's most likely a timed - fill. I am going to base this reply on personal experience, so I am counting on others to "fill in the blanks"!! ABC / Kelvinator - solid tub models from the 50s into the mid 60s Blackstone - time fill until the late 60s Frigidaire - from the first Unimatics in the late 40s until the late 60s were time-full Dominion (also Beatty and Zenith) time fill from the mid 50s until the product line was discontinued in the early 60s GE - not truly time-fill but kinda... they depended on a sort of water level switch at the bottom of the tub until 1962 (I believe) Hotpoint - timed fill through the 50s for sure; can't say when the 60s models went to a perf tub with a water level control Norge - time fill through the 50s until the late 60s That's about all I have experience with, but there were definitely others like the early Maytags!
|
Post# 970085 , Reply# 3   11/26/2017 at 12:07 (2,314 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
|
Post# 970093 , Reply# 6   11/26/2017 at 13:05 (2,314 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 970236 , Reply# 7   11/27/2017 at 10:25 (2,313 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970270 , Reply# 8   11/27/2017 at 14:10 (2,313 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970281 , Reply# 9   11/27/2017 at 16:46 (2,313 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
Timed fill front-loaders: Did those little round coin-op Westinghouse Laundromats have a timed fill? I seem to recall that the fill stopped when the timer advanced.
Whether I can trust my memory on the occasional use of one in the hometown laundromat 45+ years ago is another matter, LOL. Photo credit to our own Kevin B. for this snap from his video circa 2011. Have you noticed almost every interesting photo or video concerning washers via Google searches or on YouTube originates from a member of the AW family? We rock!
View Full Size
|
Post# 970287 , Reply# 10   11/27/2017 at 17:10 (2,313 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
Tom, the first Frigidaire washer that had metered fill was actually a low end 2 speed model from 1966 that didn't even have a water level adjustment (WCDAK-PF). In 1967 it spread to most higher end US models but also on the WCDL Custom Deluxe but these had infinite water level adjustment. I have a 1967 Custom Deluxe washer with the metered fill and infinite water level. My Canadian TOL machines from this period were still time-filled.
As for which machines had the time fill and true perforated tubs which fill their outer tubs, I don't know if that was even done. I think it could lead to problems if the machine overfills without a safety switch! Those with a solid tub design have a buffer with the outer tub that can fill after the inner tub. BTW, my 1973 Frigidaire GMini is a time-filled solid tub machine but it does have a pressure switch as a safety feature in the outer tub in case it overfills. These pictures show my 1967 WCDL/DCDL set. |
Post# 970356 , Reply# 12   11/28/2017 at 06:45 (2,312 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
MTs first AWs were all metered fill but then they came out with a cheaper model with timed fill which worked ok because it had a large outer tub so flooding was not likley if it over filled somewhat.
I think that MT was the only company that dared to build a perforated basket washer with timed fill when they introduced their first helical drive washers. These machines [ 123, A100 etc ] had very little room for overfilling, they were 16 gallon tub washers and if you got to about 20 gallons of water it was all going on the floor after that and the socks were getting stuck between the wash basket and outer tub, LOL.
All early WH and Bendix FL washers were metered fill.
John L. |
Post# 970357 , Reply# 13   11/28/2017 at 06:59 (2,312 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 970366 , Reply# 14   11/28/2017 at 08:57 (2,312 days old) by lesto (Atlanta)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Hotpoint continued to use a time fil and solid tubl until the early 70's when they became rebranded GE's with perforated tubs. |
Post# 970369 , Reply# 15   11/28/2017 at 09:23 (2,312 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Les, the last time I saw a Hotpoint solid-tub was a BOL Flat-Top over at Castleberry's in about '73. I should have bought it. |
Post# 970370 , Reply# 16   11/28/2017 at 09:46 (2,312 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 970371 , Reply# 17   11/28/2017 at 09:56 (2,312 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
|
Post# 970375 , Reply# 18   11/28/2017 at 10:21 (2,312 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
|
Post# 970376 , Reply# 19   11/28/2017 at 10:30 (2,312 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970377 , Reply# 20   11/28/2017 at 10:32 (2,312 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970381 , Reply# 21   11/28/2017 at 11:10 (2,312 days old) by lesto (Atlanta)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
I have a late 60's solid tub Speed Queen with a time fill. It's the first model with the reversible motor. |
Post# 970432 , Reply# 23   11/28/2017 at 17:36 (2,312 days old) by washman (o)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
If you dig back through some old CR issues, I believe they notate whether timed or metered fill. |
Post# 970435 , Reply# 24   11/28/2017 at 18:03 (2,312 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
I'm not aware of any WPs/KMs of old (classic belt-drive) that were timed fill. Early design had a float instead of a pressure switch but it wasn't timed. BOL single/full-level models still had a pressure switch (or float), with the timer having a designated "fill" area but it wasn't timed. Advancing the timer out of the "fill" usually started agitation (via bypassing the fill circuit) to manually provide a lower water level. So, if there were some timed-filled models, that's hugely interesting. |
Post# 970438 , Reply# 25   11/28/2017 at 18:22 (2,312 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
I thought there were some POD Whirlpool & Sears Kenmore machines that had no water level, but what now what you're saying in this area, now that I've read about what some of you'd said about a pressure-switch, is very different, versus my assumption that these washers (a box-control Whirlpool & some of those Kenmores w/ the dial & knob/knobs on the front of the cabinet come to mind, as well as Kenmores w/ full-width backguards employing such)...
-- Dave |
Post# 970468 , Reply# 28   11/28/2017 at 20:51 (2,312 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
Some KM/WP timers had a "rinse fill" increment. There'd be a pause for the remainder of the increment if the water level was satisfied before it advanced but that's not a timed fill, the pressure switch is still in control of the fill. The timer would advance and stop (until agitation started) if the fill took longer than the rinse fill increment. There wasn't a pause like that for the wash fill far as I ever saw.
|
Post# 970519 , Reply# 30   11/29/2017 at 02:10 (2,311 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970535 , Reply# 31   11/29/2017 at 05:57 (2,311 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
What washer this diagram belongs to? I see no pressure switch, so I am assuming timed fill?
View Full Size
|
Post# 970540 , Reply# 32   11/29/2017 at 07:13 (2,311 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
|
Post# 970551 , Reply# 33   11/29/2017 at 07:56 (2,311 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970590 , Reply# 34   11/29/2017 at 10:40 (2,311 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Picture of the stainless tub on Blackstone models 250 and 350, from the 1950s. These machines were timed-fill.
There are drain holes in the bottom of the tub, through which water could drain when the tub was lifted up from the disk. At the end of the wash cycle, the tub would lift; some water would drain through these holes; and then the tub would start spinning. When spinning, the water would climb over the top, passing through the channels around the perimeter of the tub. I believe the time for filling was 4 minutes. Since these machines had mechanical timers, you could move the dial in either direction for more or less filling time.
View Full Size
|
Post# 970625 , Reply# 36   11/29/2017 at 14:18 (2,311 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970626 , Reply# 37   11/29/2017 at 14:20 (2,311 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970633 , Reply# 38   11/29/2017 at 14:49 (2,311 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I don't remember how long it took to fill, but I know it took it's time compared to my metered-fill A606.
Yes the water pressure is too high, but i rent, and it sure is great for blasting out the rain gutters. |
Post# 970660 , Reply# 39   11/29/2017 at 17:23 (2,311 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
There are flow restrictors in the body of the fill valve on both the hot and cold side. The restrictors are in the non-time fill machines too, because they use the same valves. |
Post# 970692 , Reply# 41   11/29/2017 at 19:21 (2,311 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
|
Post# 970705 , Reply# 43   11/29/2017 at 21:18 (2,311 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Hi Ken, there is nothing special about the fill air-gap on your A200, ALL MTs used this system from 1956-1965, and they had lots of problems with minerals building up on the copper spout and causing water to miss the funnel and causing leaks. Then MT came out with the other type of FAG that you mentioned and they still had lots of problems with leaks.
Funny that WP never had all these problems with the FAGs on their machines.
John L. |
Post# 970731 , Reply# 44   11/30/2017 at 05:26 (2,310 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Ah, learn something every day. Thank you for the clarification. |
Post# 970734 , Reply# 45   11/30/2017 at 05:50 (2,310 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Yes I know- the pen kept dying- had to get a new one eventually.
View Full Size
|
Post# 970766 , Reply# 47   11/30/2017 at 10:44 (2,310 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
|
Post# 970768 , Reply# 48   11/30/2017 at 10:58 (2,310 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Yes, they fill the at the same rate no matter what temperature is selected. |
Post# 970772 , Reply# 49   11/30/2017 at 11:54 (2,310 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Is one with a pressure switch or float. If I was a manufacture would never rely solely on the timer for a variety of reasons. For the same reasons DW have a float despite most being timed fill.
In terms of flow restriction I'm more leaning toward John on this one, I would imagine the restrictor right at the edge of the water valve then the hose inlet. Reason being that warm would fill 2x as fast overflowing the washer. |
Post# 970773 , Reply# 50   11/30/2017 at 11:54 (2,310 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970799 , Reply# 51   11/30/2017 at 14:23 (2,310 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
There was no Whirlpool/Kenmore automatic washer made with a time fill system, only Maytag had it in a perforated tub model and that was very brief. Just because it said fill on the dial didn't mean it was a time fill machine. Whirlpool/Kenmore did that quite often on their frog-eye models.
Yes in order to control the flow of water properly it has to be done after the valve and before the fill flume. Turning the pressure down at the inlet hoses generally wont be consistent. I received this question in an email today that I will answer here... Do you know which washers (service manuals) in the Ephemera have a timed fill? Here is a good list, not all have service manuals in the library, but most do... ABC-O-Matic AMC Apex Blackstone before 1959 Corondao Frigidaire before 1966 Hamilton before 1960 Hotpoint before 1964 Kelvinator before 1967 Launderall Norge before 1960 Speed Queen until approx 1970 Wizard |
Post# 970810 , Reply# 52   11/30/2017 at 15:53 (2,310 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 970854 , Reply# 53   11/30/2017 at 21:17 (2,310 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Wasn't that the one where the timer acts mechanically on the valve, and if power goes off during the fill, the valve does not close? I recall there was a thread about that a while ago. |
Post# 970888 , Reply# 54   12/1/2017 at 05:29 (2,309 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Yes. Consumer Reports noted that in the ratings of the Blackstones. |
Post# 970890 , Reply# 55   12/1/2017 at 06:14 (2,309 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Well, thank you for the insights and info on Whirlpool and Kenmore washers that to my impression, were timed-fill, but turned out to have an entirely different water-filling system, as they were definitely not metered-fill (still no Water Level knob on those, and relegated to the bottom-most-level in their line-ups)...
-- Dave |
Post# 970916 , Reply# 56   12/1/2017 at 09:31 (2,309 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
|
Post# 970917 , Reply# 57   12/1/2017 at 09:34 (2,309 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
2    
Yes, the Blackstones would continue to fill if the electricity were unplugged. The water would continue to drain from the outer tub, since the drain hose was at the bottom of the cabinet, not requiring the pump to drain the water.
Actually, we commonly unplugged the machine when it was filling, so we could adjust the spray into the tub without having a spinning tub. Never heard of a flooding disaster due to loss of electricity. |
Post# 971194 , Reply# 58   12/2/2017 at 20:51 (2,308 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 971225 , Reply# 59   12/3/2017 at 05:25 (2,307 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 971289 , Reply# 61   12/3/2017 at 13:51 (2,307 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 971293 , Reply# 62   12/3/2017 at 14:07 (2,307 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
OK, did I use the wrong terminology? I only noticed control over water temperature... And the standard timer dial, but no water level on some of those machines... So whatever the filling method on some of those basic machines (that is not timed fill, or whatever the "other" method of dill) they had...
-- Dave |
Post# 971294 , Reply# 63   12/3/2017 at 14:21 (2,307 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
It's the same method as machines that have a water level control on the console ... a switch that responds to air pressure that increases inside a small hose as the water level in the tub rises. The difference being that the switch is hidden inside the console and is not adjustable for choice of high/medium/low or variable fill levels. A non-adjustable pressure switch could be swapped into a model with adjustable levels ... or an adjustable switch could be swapped into a machine without (drill a hole in the console). The timer doesn't have to change. |
Post# 971300 , Reply# 64   12/3/2017 at 14:58 (2,307 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 972420 , Reply# 65   12/8/2017 at 18:35 (2,302 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
Drew up a high end model, wiring diagram to follow:
View Full Size
|