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Thread Number: 73760
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Spin Distribution |
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Post# 974285 , Reply# 1 12/17/2017 at 16:55 (2,314 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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 I think they're all about the same, although our current Affinity FL seems to perform a much longer balancing act than our Duet did.
The only exception to this that I'm aware of is Speed Queen. Per the comments posted by John L. and others, SQ FL machines don't mess around and launch into spin relatively quickly. | ||
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Post# 974286 , Reply# 2 12/17/2017 at 17:01 (2,314 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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there can be a variety of factors as to why a machine may jump right into a spin, while others play around trying to find that sweet spot.....
you can that same load in ten different machines, and get ten different answers.... I do know that my Frigidaire Gallery, after I increased the water level, stopped having balancing issues, one or two reverses, and then takes off..... | ||
| Post# 974291 , Reply# 3 12/17/2017 at 17:14 (2,314 days old) by wishwash (Indiana) | ||
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I'm not really sure why they spend so much time on this. I've seen an he2t in action which spent probably 5-10 minutes re-balancing only to give up and have a shaky spin anyway. Isn't this the exact problem that supposedly damages the machine? | ||
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Post# 974317 , Reply# 5 12/17/2017 at 19:12 (2,314 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Our Duet did the on/off fill too. They marketed it as a "catalyst" wash system where the contents were tumbled in a super concentrated solution that became diluted as the on/off filling sequence continued.
Our Affinity seems to use the spin bursts as a way to lighten the load and facilitate balancing in advance of a longer spin. Sometimes though, it can't even balance well enough to do a burst spin and will give up and start filling for the next sequence. Only in extreme cases does it give up on attempting a final spin and shut off without executing one. It has only done that a few times in the nine years we've had it, and it was always when washing throw rugs which now are laundered in the trusty Maytag A712 with the Gentle/Fast wash and spin options selected. | ||
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Post# 974337 , Reply# 8 12/17/2017 at 20:42 (2,314 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Re:reply #4
I had an LG 3170 that did just what you are describing. But mine sometimes took 3 hrs to complete a load with this pointless hunt for a sweet spot to spin. And I also needed to get water hammer arrestors.
This burst filling process is a waste of time too. I guess its LG’s attempt to minimize water usage, but to me its a waste of time. You’re going to use the water anyway, why not just let the machine add the required amt. all at once. If the machine senses the need for additional water, it can always add some more, but add the majority of the needed water at the beginning. I couldn’t even use the heavy soil level on the cotton cycle. It literally would tumble for 30 mins. with the center of the load not even damp, let alone wet, then as if an after thought in the last 5 mins. it would fill with enough water to finally wet the load, but trust me, there was no splashing going on. I used it this way for 15 mos. before I said enough is enough and got rid of it. I like FL washers, but until they start to operate more closely to the way they used to I’m not interested in owning another new FL. Eddie | ||
| Post# 974348 , Reply# 9 12/17/2017 at 22:16 (2,314 days old) by Norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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Another reason I like. Westinghouse laundromat s and. Bendixes. Wham bam and its spinning no fiddling around wasting time | ||
| Post# 974354 , Reply# 10 12/17/2017 at 23:09 (2,314 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
Hans, what you just said gave me a thought, what if some manufacturer of FL machines were to take a cue from the old WP/KM combos in the '60s and incorporate BOTH a suspension and the water ballast balancing system they used.
Instead of waiting forever for the load to be perfectly balanced, balance the tub. With a suspension that WP couldn't have because of Bendix's patents, almost all vibration would be mitigated and a modern 1200 RPM speed should be attainable. With modern tech water ballasting wouldn't be too hard to execute. It would get rid of this drawn out balancing charade that most modern machines do. The best ideas of old combined. | ||
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Post# 974406 , Reply# 12 12/18/2017 at 07:56 (2,313 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Post# 974518 , Reply# 13 12/18/2017 at 19:22 (2,313 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Having recently just been under the bonnet so to speak of my OKO-Lavamat you begin to understand the palaver around spin distribution.
Compared to the Miele the AEG (and one assumes this goes for many others) are literally "toys". There is simply not a lot to them structurally so that it won't take much unbalanced spinning to wear things out. Miele washer of old and even new are substantial pieces of kit. Tub suspended by four heavy springs. Automobile grade shock absorbers, the famous cast iron cradle, and heavy duty bearings/seals add up to a washing machine that is near commercial quality. As such Miele washers are known for being able to spin under even the most challenging loads. It may not like it, and or one shouldn't allow things to go on long enough the washer bashes itself to bits, but there you are. Everyone else relies more upon avoiding even moderate to perhaps light unbalanced loads it seems. Thus reducing strain, wear and tear. | ||
| Post# 974760 , Reply# 15 12/20/2017 at 13:33 (2,311 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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cabrio's method... noticed my '10 VMW will stop,refill and run an extra rinse if it cannot balance-this is the only way this He washplate machine can redistribute...Seems to try two extra rinse cycles and if that doesn't do it,runs a lower RPM spin,perhaps ~500 RPM :) | ||
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Post# 974763 , Reply# 16 12/20/2017 at 13:48 (2,311 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Brendon
I used to have one of these 10’ Cabrios, and mine would refill over and over and over again attempting to balance itself so it could complete the rinse portion of the cycle. If I didn’t keep an eye on it this would have gone on forever. The load that always caused a problem was 2 bath towels, 2 hand towels, about a dozen washclothes and 2 or 3 pairs of jeans, all evenly distributed on loading, but the Cabrio would unfailingly manage to unbalance this type of load.
I never had this kind of experience before with any other washer. This machine didn’t last too long in our home, too much babysitting for me for a washer that was supposed to be automatic. Eddie This post was last edited 12/20/2017 at 14:21 | ||
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Post# 974765 , Reply# 17 12/20/2017 at 14:20 (2,311 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 974768 , Reply# 18 12/20/2017 at 14:36 (2,311 days old) by sPeEDqUeEN (Metro-Detroit) | ||
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TL Redistribution | ||
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Post# 974773 , Reply# 19 12/20/2017 at 16:05 (2,311 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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“Now if they would only beef up the suspension a little there wouldn't be this much trouble on HE TL machines. “
I’m happy to say that my Maytag MVWC415EW has never had a problem balancing any load, with the exception of one time when I washed the Rubbermaid tub mat with the shower curtain, liner and bathmat. I stopped it, redistributed the load, pushed start and everything was A-OK. Maybe its the center post of the agipeller that helps to keep the load balanced, I don’t know why it always goes into a spin with no balancing problems, but I’m not going to question it, I’ll just appreciate it. Eddie | ||
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Post# 974798 , Reply# 20 12/20/2017 at 19:35 (2,311 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Thank goodness for spin dryers, that's what I say
For loads one knows from experience the Miele won't like, simply cancel all interim and final spins, then chuck wash into spin dryer.
Tend to do this when washing smaller loads and or things that will cause the machine have large drum movements. Suppose could leave Big Bertha to sort things out on her own, and often she does to some extent. But again after putting >$500 between new shock absorbers and drum suspension (springs), this washer must last several more years to get ROI. For large bulky items like blankets it is either off to laundromat or haul out the Maytag wringer. | ||
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Post# 974852 , Reply# 22 12/21/2017 at 09:09 (2,310 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Here's the problem. Force is mass times acceleration. Centripetal acceleration is equal to v2/r (v=speed, r=radius)* so there's your problem right there: We're talking one heck of a lot of energy to go from a lower spin to a higher spin. Never mind the enormous amount of energy the object being spun has even at a very slow spin. Manufacturers can either dimension the machine to handle the tremendous structural load caused by an out of balance spin or use logic to prevent the machine being loaded beyond what a cheap structure can handle. How they find the right combination between structural components, logic, sensors, anti-vibration devices is all about profit and loss. Ancient belt drive Whirlpool washers nearly never went out of balance - their mass compensated for just about anything. Ditto the 1970s AEG 800U/min and today's Miele washers. Which also use better logic and sensors. Pay more, get more. Pay less, get less. Unfortunately, the manufacturers are locked into a mentality of pay more, get less when it comes to beefing up their machines to handle the spin speeds they're promising.
*Before we get into another hysterical centrifugal/centripedal, velocity/ acceleration/speed nonsense discussion, just know that I could not care less and we all played that stupid game 14 years ago. Go look in the archives if you're feeling that 'a'-retentive. The rest of us just want to have some fun. | ||
| Post# 974857 , Reply# 23 12/21/2017 at 09:58 (2,310 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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"manufacturers' mentality of pay more, get less" Yes, that seems to be the case these days - right across the board. Everything is flimsily made. | ||
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Post# 974858 , Reply# 24 12/21/2017 at 10:08 (2,310 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Well my Maytag Centennial HE TL wasn’t an expensive washer and as far as spinning and balancing dependably it performs just like a washer from the old days before so many became particular about performing these essential functions.
So I don’t neccesarily agree that it is all about how much you spend. The load that I described as always having problems spinning in my 10’ Cabrio wasn’t a large or especially heavy load, and no other washer that I’d owned in the past ever had problems with the same kind of load. All I do know is that I’m very pleased with this Maytag. I hope that I can get many years of good, trouble free service from it, time will tell. Its now over a year old, and in that year zero problems, so thats a good sign already. Here is a full load of colors that I washed this morning and just finished folding: 2 pairs of mens jeans 4 crewneck sweat shirts 1 short sleeve tee shirt 1 heavyweight long sleeve tee shirt 7 pairs of black socks 1 handkerchief 14 cotton dinner napkins 2 placemats This load was washed on heavy soil, deep water wash, hot water and it finished in 50 mins. Eddie
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This post was last edited 12/21/2017 at 13:36 | ||
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Post# 975300 , Reply# 26 12/24/2017 at 10:15 (2,307 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Oh, some machines do get it right I had a neighbour in Munich who had an ancient Candy. One of those which used the variable pulley arrangement. She never had trouble with it, apart from replacing the belt every few years (a result of the mechanical load 'sensing' system). Those springs and shocks and variable pully Candy washers were the perfect balance between cost and effect. I'm overjoyed that Whirlpool has got it right in their Maytags. Presumably the same system will now work it's way down the price-range until even Roper/Estate/Kirkland do the same. | ||
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Post# 975747 , Reply# 30 12/27/2017 at 13:14 (2,304 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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Spin Our Duet generally spins on the second try, but is far quicker than my grandparents LG which seems to take entirely too long. I do wish the Duet had a more sophisticated suspension design for better balancing. | ||
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Post# 976292 , Reply# 35 12/31/2017 at 11:04 (2,300 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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The Active Actuator sounds like a great idea. | ||
| Post# 976302 , Reply# 36 12/31/2017 at 11:31 (2,300 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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I was right! Have a look at this! PDF download CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK | ||
| Post# 976318 , Reply# 37 12/31/2017 at 13:06 (2,300 days old) by Ultralux88 (Denver) | ||
I can’t offer much brilliant insight here...
But I have observed this about front loaders. We had a Frigidaire/Kenmore front loader set for several years (moved and left the set, new house came with ‘Shredmore’ set) and it would sometimes take a good long time trying to sort out how it wanted things in the tub. I’ve been around an Asko set too and it didn’t seem to take as much time, bu t it still took a minute or so. I was really shocked when I first saw a Speed Queen run it really just seemed to go from agitation to spin with no real sorting out the load balance. It shocked me and I was expecting a more violent spin, the tub does seem to go for more of a ride than the machines that spend more time on the load balance, but the machine itself stayed steady and there really wasn’t much if any of a shake rattle and roll routine... same goes for the Asko though it never seemed to go too crazy. Now I know someone with a Whirlpool Duet that walks all over the laundry room, but that’s going to be a whole separate repair thread if I can ever get around to that...
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