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Thread Number: 73942
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New Miele W1/T1 coming soon for US market |
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| Post# 976867 1/4/2018 at 17:18 (2,301 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia) | ||
Hi everyone,
finally the time has come for Miele to release the new W1/T1 washers and dryers for the US market. The control panel seems to be unique for the US market. Also the dryers will be heat pump. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mielerod69's LINK
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Post# 976869 , Reply# 1 1/4/2018 at 17:35 (2,301 days old) by marky_mark  (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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| Post# 976871 , Reply# 2 1/4/2018 at 17:55 (2,301 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia) | ||
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Instruction manuals available to download | ||
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Post# 976926 , Reply# 3 1/5/2018 at 00:03 (2,300 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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You should love these Really, they are awesome! | ||
| Post# 976936 , Reply# 4 1/5/2018 at 02:42 (2,300 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia) | ||
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There are actually 3 washer models | ||
| Post# 976968 , Reply# 6 1/5/2018 at 11:07 (2,300 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND) | ||
I thought about posting this on monday when I found out about it, but I figured no one wanted to hear my fanboy freakout about it :P
Anyways, here is a bit more info. They are planning on an April '18 launch. Guess who has a set pre-ordered? ;-)
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| Post# 977018 , Reply# 8 1/5/2018 at 18:18 (2,300 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND) | ||
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Post# 977022 , Reply# 9 1/5/2018 at 18:33 (2,300 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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| Post# 977023 , Reply# 10 1/5/2018 at 18:35 (2,300 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND) | ||
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Post# 977026 , Reply# 11 1/5/2018 at 19:02 (2,300 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Manuals | ||
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Post# 977037 , Reply# 12 1/5/2018 at 20:25 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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You'll have to make do for now
Until Miele releases machines in USA won't find anything yet on the site:
www.miele.com/pmedia/ZGA/... www.manualslib.com/manual/114548... Dryer: www.miele.co.uk/pmedia/ZGA/TX207... www.manualscat.com/en/miele-tdb1... | ||
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Post# 977039 , Reply# 13 1/5/2018 at 20:26 (2,299 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 977041 , Reply# 14 1/5/2018 at 20:34 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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You want to look for | ||
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Post# 977043 , Reply# 15 1/5/2018 at 20:37 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 977044 , Reply# 16 1/5/2018 at 20:48 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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One's initial impressions
Both the W1 washer and T1 dryer seem interesting if not impressive. Especially when compared to what is currently on offer for USA laundry appliance market.
If am being honest am not totally won over by heat pump dryers, but will wait to see what reviews come out after Americans get their mitts on the thing and issue reports. Mayhaps ditch both the Whirlpool portable and AEG Lavatherm? Likely not, but then again one never knows, do one? As for the TwinDos system, unless things have changed they aren't anything special detergent/laundry bleach wise. Taking away convenience and whatever neither actual product rated any higher than say a good TOL detergent like Persil. www.test.de/Waschmaschine... | ||
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Post# 977051 , Reply# 17 1/5/2018 at 21:33 (2,299 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC ) |
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W1
Bob,
Here’s a link to the WWH860 washer. These are impressive machines. I like that you change temp and spin speed settings to the actual temp and rpm and, of course the QuickIntenseWash cycles. Though, admittedly, I’m glad I didn’t wait to buy a new machine and went ahead with the Little Giants. Manuals are on the US Miele site. Go to Customer Service, then my manuals and type in the models number. HTH CLICK HERE TO GO TO aamassther's LINK | ||
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Post# 977052 , Reply# 18 1/5/2018 at 21:44 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Stand corrected | ||
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Post# 977053 , Reply# 19 1/5/2018 at 21:54 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Off top of one's head
Just glancing through the US version of manual a few things caught one's eye.
Frist is the use of chlorine bleach. This may not be new, but my Big Bertha makes no such mention nor provision. Two, you cannot use powdered detergent for the pre-wash, only liquid. If you want to use the pre-wash manual suggest using the TwinDos system. "Tip: Reinsert the insert into the detergent dispenser drawer before next using liquid detergent." "Tip: Use TwinDos dispensing if you want to run a program with pre-wash." Indeed it does seem the washer is set up either via dispenser or Twindos for default to be liquid detergents. | ||
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Post# 977054 , Reply# 20 1/5/2018 at 22:01 (2,299 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 977061 , Reply# 21 1/5/2018 at 22:43 (2,299 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC ) |
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@Launderess, happy to pass on info learned from THS! As mentioned up thread, thought it was interesting Miele actually tailored this series to the American consumer, some.
@appnut, agreed, it’s nice to be able to select the exact temp instead of relying on what the manufacturer decides is said temp and keeping the actual figures a secret. “but the average U.s. consumer is probably too dumb or just programmed for all cold water washing.” That’s usually been my assumption as to the reason companies like Miele don’t offer all of the features they do in other parts of the world. Even my Little Giants don’t offer all of the options that are available in European models. Though I think the US obsession with litigation plays a part too. | ||
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Post# 977088 , Reply# 22 1/6/2018 at 02:04 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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It isn't all rainbows and unicorns with regard to cycles
You have heavy, normal and light soiling level options.
Heavy adds a pre-wash, but then you must use a liquid detergent, twindos or those caps. If using pre-wash then one cannot use chlorine bleach. This post was last edited 01/06/2018 at 06:36 | ||
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Post# 977103 , Reply# 23 1/6/2018 at 06:52 (2,299 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Now the dryers may be a game changer
For many that until now have relied upon Whirlpool/Kenmore or other "compact" vented dryers. Here you'll have something in these heat pump dryers that takes a full wash load (8kgs/17.6lbs from matching washer) and will dry using a standard 120v/15amp circuit.
Have been through manuals for both dryers listed above and neither gives any sort of range of drying times. There is the standard advice for all condenser dryers about spinning wash at highest final rpms possible to remove much water as possible. Miele states that spinning at 1600rpms will save have an energy savings of 20% moisture versus 1000rpms. Amps x volts gives us total watts. That means in theory max draw for these dryers is 1800 watts. But don't think they'll pull anywhere near. So in end will have a condenser type dryer that pulls nearly what my vintage Whirlpool with a 1400 watt heater does. | ||
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Post# 977322 , Reply# 27 1/7/2018 at 13:55 (2,298 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 977334 , Reply# 28 1/7/2018 at 15:20 (2,298 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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The European Miele ones only draw 1,100 watts
Don't see how that would work in USA.
From THS gleaned the washer's heating power is 1050 watts. You can only pull 1800 from a 120v/60amp circuit and that is total which would leave about 750w for dryer. This matters since Miele as usual markets the W&D as set meaning both in theory could be in operation at same time and circuit. Something therefore must give power wise and cannot see drawing full power (1800w) for the three or whatever hours it takes to complete cycles. Of course once the washer heats water and thermostat is satisfied that should be it far as that power draw is concerned. | ||
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Post# 977336 , Reply# 29 1/7/2018 at 15:27 (2,298 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Heatpump usage The power draw by the dryer should be activley regulated, with 1000W being worst case. Normal running power should be lower then that. | ||
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Post# 977345 , Reply# 30 1/7/2018 at 17:46 (2,298 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA) |
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A glance at the installation instructions in the dryer manual shows that Miele will sell a connection adapter. It will convert a 4-prong dryer outlet into two regular 15 amp outlets. | ||
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Post# 977366 , Reply# 31 1/7/2018 at 19:53 (2,297 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Which is what one meant | ||
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Post# 977395 , Reply# 33 1/7/2018 at 21:42 (2,297 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes love,
But the Miele plugs for USA are 120v/15amp, which means much less power.
15 amp at 120v gives total of 1800 watts. While the same amps at 20 goes up to 2400 watts. At least here you can plug a 15amp 120v plug into a 20amp socket, but not vice versa. If Miele is specifying a 15 amp power supply one assumes that is what people are going to move with. Twenty amp circuits on 120v are normally used for air conditioners and refrigerators, in fact IIRC code may specify such. Think it is due to the amount of power such things draw and or at start-up. Such "dedicated" circuits however usually aren't supposed to have anything else going at same time. One assumes all this palaver comes from Miele now being totally gun shy about deviating from the standard American 120v power supply found in a majority of American homes. Having tried for years to get Americans to come around to 120v/220v "dryer" plugs and seeing their sales not move much (for washing machines), they've given up that track mostly except for the professional/commercial lines. | ||
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Post# 977409 , Reply# 35 1/7/2018 at 23:16 (2,297 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes, but that's assuming machines will go into
a dedicated "laundry area". Ours has no such thing nor do many older or even relatively modern NYC apartments.
Yes, it is the fuse/circuit breaker that will determine total amps that can be drawn. Equally yes, it is possible a wall socket is wired to a 20 amp circuit even though it has a 15amp plug. | ||
| Post# 977414 , Reply# 36 1/7/2018 at 23:50 (2,297 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND) | ||
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Post# 977418 , Reply# 37 1/8/2018 at 00:05 (2,297 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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From manual
The dryer is equipped with a power
cord 6' 7" (2 m) with plug. The dryer is connected to a NEMA 5-15 socket with an electrical connection of 120 V, 60 Hz, 15 A. If a NEMA 14-30 socket is provided on-site for the dryer, the Miele connection adapter* can be used." Observe the following description to avoid damage to the dryer. Tip: You can order the connection adapter directly from Miele (USA or CDN). – The connection adapter has a NEMA 14-30 plug and two NEMA 5-15 socket-side connectors. The dryer and washing machine can therefore be connected to the 120 V / 60 Hz electricity supply. – The connection adapter is equipped with two 15 A fuses which protect both the connected appliances and the connection adapter. Washer: ELECTRICAL INSTRUCTIONS This installation should be performed by an experienced and qualified technician, in accordance with local codes and regulations. The washing machine is supplied with a 5’ 3" (1.6 m) long, 3 wire cord, ending in a NEMA 5-15P plug, ready for connection to a 120 V, 15 A, 60 Hz, AC power supply. The proper outlet can be purchased from an electrical supply dealer | ||
| Post# 977444 , Reply# 38 1/8/2018 at 08:40 (2,297 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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With all that adapter carry on... Thank Heaven for our 240v, 13a ring main system. Less hassle all round. | ||
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Post# 977589 , Reply# 44 1/9/2018 at 06:55 (2,296 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Which? To The Rescue | ||
| Post# 977651 , Reply# 46 1/9/2018 at 14:56 (2,296 days old) by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey) | ||
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I just wish Miele had kept their classic styling. The W3922/W3923 especially just looked 'right'. These new machines look like they could be BSH or AEG-Electrolux... | ||
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Post# 977671 , Reply# 48 1/9/2018 at 16:42 (2,296 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Whirlpool's new compacts only have a connection for cold water. Here's one of them:
www.whirlpool.com/laundry... | ||
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Post# 977694 , Reply# 49 1/9/2018 at 22:15 (2,295 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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VERY NICE! If only I had the money... | ||
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Post# 977704 , Reply# 50 1/10/2018 at 00:49 (2,295 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Cold Fill Dishwasher
Have always wondered how that works. I mean if dishes are hot from first wash, then hitting them with cold water (until it reached desired heated temperature) is a sure way to cause damage.
Cold fill washing machines: My AEG OKO-Lavamat is cold fill and if am being honest not totally a fan. I mean if one has plenty of hot water (which I do), can save some time and bother by either pre-soaking or doing a quick pre-wash in cold, then filling with hot and let the machine "boost" temp up to 140F to 200F. | ||
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Post# 977711 , Reply# 51 1/10/2018 at 02:16 (2,295 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 977713 , Reply# 52 1/10/2018 at 03:21 (2,295 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Vintage European DWs that used larger water volumes usually had a cool down at the end of the main wash to prevent thermal shock.
Modern water stingy machines seem to work very well the way Louis describes. The BSH group might be an exception favouring heat exchangers, zeolit thechnology and who knows what else. This post was last edited 01/10/2018 at 03:56 | ||
| Post# 977776 , Reply# 54 1/10/2018 at 16:43 (2,295 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
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The top line of Miele's new DW here in the USA use a cold fill with a heat exchanger. If I am not mistaken it uses less electric than using a hot fill if you are using electric to heat your water. Of course the times are longer, about 30 minutes. Miele tested using an incoming water temp of 50F. | ||
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Post# 977821 , Reply# 56 1/10/2018 at 21:35 (2,294 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No empty refilable TwinDos Containers
It seems for the USA versions of W1 washing machines. So other than using Miele's offerings that seems to be that apparently. Thus also no swapping the second container from that bleach to say fabric softener or any other additive.
If this is true and there truly aren't any other options using that Miele TwinDos system is likely going to become very dear. Those containers aren't exactly cheap and certainly will be less so after MieleUSA adds on the various costs incurred from important to these shores. Wonder if the option is still buried in the programming and thus one could simply have the empty container kits sent from Europe. | ||
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Post# 977829 , Reply# 57 1/10/2018 at 23:19 (2,294 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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No empty cartridges? Where did you get that info from? Over here I think you get a coupon with the machine and have to order them from Miele. | ||
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Post# 977831 , Reply# 58 1/10/2018 at 23:33 (2,294 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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From Ths | ||
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Post# 977832 , Reply# 59 1/10/2018 at 23:38 (2,294 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Also from the owner's manual
It does not seem possible to change the detergent "options" for the TwinDos settings. One can increase or decrease amounts dispensed. Select whether one is washing whites or colours, but that is far as things seem to go.
Furthermore while previous WI models sold in Asia and Europe give options for dispensing fabric softener or starch "automatically" via the TwinDos system, no such directions are found for American version. Such products can only be dispensed via the fabric softener compartment in detergent drawer. From manual: Settings 86 Language ú@ The display can be set to appear in one of several different languages. The flag ú@ after the word Language acts as a guide in case a language which is not understood is set. The language selected is saved to memory. TwinDos You can set the dispensing quantities and check the level of the detergent cartridges from UltraPhase 1 and UltraPhase 2. Change dosage The set values for dispensing UltraPhase 1 and UltraPhase 2 detergent can be checked and corrected. Check level The level is displayed with a bar chart. The display only works correctly when the following conditions are met: 1. New (full) cartridges are used. 2. The cartridges must not be removed from the washing machine in the interim period. Tip: The level can be corrected via the Miele@mobile app. Select detergent The detergent selected cannot be changed. Degree of soiling Allows selection of default setting for level of soiling. The levels of soiling are light, normal, and heavy. The default setting is normal. Buzzer volume The buzzer sounds to let you know the program has finished. The buzzer can be set to be louder or quieter. Options ¡V Off ¡V ƒ¤ ƒr ƒr ƒr ƒr ƒr ƒrƒ¢ (quiet) ¡V ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ (loud) (default setting) Keypad tone Each touch of a sensor button is confirmed with an audible tone. Options ¡V Off ¡V ƒ¤ ƒr ƒr ƒr ƒr ƒr ƒrƒ¢ (quiet) ¡V ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒr ƒr ƒrƒ¢ (default setting) ¡V ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ ƒ¤ (loud) One wonders if the USA washers will come pre loaded with Miele UltraPhase products and that coupon good for a generous resupply. Otherwise cannot see many bothering even after their initial "free" (if offered) supply runs out. This post was last edited 01/10/2018 at 23:54 | ||
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Post# 977833 , Reply# 60 1/10/2018 at 23:41 (2,294 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Finally
No where in the manual does it mention using empty/refillable containers with the TwinDos system.
One either uses Miele TwinDos detergents as dispensed, the caps or go with one's own choice of whatever. The last are simply placed into the detergent drawer dispenser as common practice. This is what one is on about: www.miele.co.uk/domestic/... www.gumtree.com/p/washing-machin... To be fair it does seem many had issues using those refillable canisters, so maybe they aren't long for the world in Europe either. | ||
| Post# 977888 , Reply# 62 1/11/2018 at 11:04 (2,294 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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Maybe Miele should investigate a 3-cartridge system? One with Ultraphase 1 + 2 + Fabric Conditioner? | ||
| Post# 977936 , Reply# 63 1/11/2018 at 22:42 (2,293 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia) | ||
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refillable containers
I have used Ariel colour liquid detergent as well as Persil color in the refillable containers. Both detergents worked fine. The Persil color is runnier than Ariel. The second cartridge I have used different types of fabric softener and they have all work ed.
BTW, Miele Germany have released a model similar to the ones that are going to be released in the US. The control panel is similar.
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Post# 977985 , Reply# 64 1/12/2018 at 09:55 (2,293 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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Electrical Connection Regarding the electrical hookup, I would agree with jkbff's post (reply 36). As the Miele adapter has two fuses, I would assume it would split the two legs of the 240-V 30-Amp multiwire branch circuit into two separate 120 Volt 15 Amp circuits each on opposing phases typically having two breakers with a common trip tie so that if one trips, they both trip. This way, both the washer and the dryer can be run simultaneously with no problems as they would effectively both be on separate circuits but with a shared neutral. If only one of the adapter's outlets is being used, the current will run via the neutral and one of the live wires (or grounded and ungrounded conductors, as the NEC likes to refer to them as). If they are both in use, then the current will run between the two live legs up to the point at which the two loads balance, with the remainder flowing via the neutral. That would be my guess regarding the adapter. | ||
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Post# 978026 , Reply# 65 1/12/2018 at 18:34 (2,293 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Pictures
Someone over on THS (see link above) took pictures of the new Miele washers and dryers from KBS 2018 show. Overall units appear to be rather nice.
Another poster to same thread confrimed Miele won't be selling the "empty" refillable canisters, and work arounds aren't possible because of programming. With TwinDos even when "colors" is selected a small amount of the oxygen bleach is dispensed. So if that canister has something else in it; that is what one will get in the wash. Thus far it seems as if Miele has removed such programming from units to be sold in North America. However once units arrive am sure sooner or later an owner is going to post about attempts to *hack* or otherwise play with programming. Then we shall see shan't we? | ||
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Post# 978034 , Reply# 66 1/12/2018 at 19:12 (2,293 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC ) |
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Mostly H2O2 Here's a link to the Phase 2 ingredients list from the UK site. It's mostly H2O2 with some OBA's and surfactants thrown in.
Here are the Phase 1 ingredients:
It's certainly an enzyme heavy mix!
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Post# 978084 , Reply# 67 1/13/2018 at 08:04 (2,292 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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In Germany there are plenty of dirt cheap alternatives to UltraPhase 1.
Obviously made by Dalli Werke, 6 Enzymes, very high surfactants content but still low in viscosity (free running) CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
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Post# 978085 , Reply# 68 1/13/2018 at 08:05 (2,292 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 978259 , Reply# 70 1/14/2018 at 08:26 (2,291 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Miele`s UltraPhase 1 seems to be even a little more concentrated than Miele`s "standard" UltraColor liquid or Dalli`s DM discounter detergent both of them list 15-30% anionic and 5-15% nonionic surfactants which is a decent amount when dosed at 66 ml (Miele) or 75 ml (DM) for a standart load.
UltraPhase 1 gets you 37 loads at 1,5 l, so it`s only 41 ml per load. Unfortunately can not find anything about surfactants percentage in this one. At risk of repeating myself, viscosity has nothing to do with a detergent`s concentration. Anything concerning viscosity can be modified like adding thickeners to make consumers believe to get more for their money or like adding more solvents to avoid gelling e.g. if you wanted a product to be easily flushed in over the detergent drawer or by a pump. It`s not surprising that a good powder can outperform (cleaningwise) the UltraPhase system. Enzyme containing liquids are pH wise generally way less caustic than most powders and a mild liquid H2O2 solution can not compare to a powerful NOBS or TAED activated dry bleaching system. We simply cannot have both at once, the gentleness of liquids and the power of powders. Besides powders wouldn`t do so well in an automatic dosing system. | ||
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