New Tariffs On Washing Machines


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Thread Number: 74170 / Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New Tariffs On Washing Machines

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Post# 979513 1/22/2018 at 21:33 (2,275 days old) by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)
Checkrate/Likes 5 Whirlpool got a hold of President Trump's ear. Guess they got tired of being dumped on. I had read an article in the news that they were lobbying him to even out the playing field. I'm wondering how high the tariffs are going to go, guess we'll find out when we walk through Lowe's appliance department. "For large residential washing machines, tariffs will start at up to 50 percent and phase out after three years." Whirlpool chairman Jeff Fettig said, �This is a victory for American workers and consumers alike,� Fettig said. �By enforcing our existing trade laws, President Trump has ensured American workers will compete on a level playing field with their foreign counterparts.� I had read that Whirlpool made over 21 BILLION dollars in 2016. Guess money talks. This is HUGE though, and will have MAJOR impact on LG & Samsung's ability to distribute at a profit. This impacts Speed Queen and Electrolux as well. I foresee changes in the future for Samsung & LG. Hmmmm. www.wgntv.com/2018/01/22/pres-tru... Discuss among yourselves. I'll get the popcorn.

Post# 979514 , Reply# 1 1/22/2018 at 21:54 (2,275 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)
Checkrate/Likes 2 I'm happy, I'm not going to re-explain what happened to the US TV industry when the us Govt. failed to act on foreign competition like Matsushita(Panasonic). I hope this helps WP to have more money left over for research and development. Best the USA! *The above is only my personal opinion

Post# 979519 , Reply# 2 1/22/2018 at 23:04 (2,275 days old) by dianam (Southern California)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Until I read this article, I had no idea Whirlpool/Maytag made most of its parts at the same Clyde, Ohio, factory where they are assembled. I did know they previously moved some jobs to Monterrey, Mexico, but later moved some (or most?) back to the U.S. www.toledoblade.com/business/2017... BUSINESS Huge Whirlpool plant runs heart of Clyde Washing-machine factory marks 65 years By Jon Chavez \| BLADE BUSINESS WRITER Published on March 19, 2017 \| Updated 1:56 p. m. CLYDE, Ohio � If every washing machine ever made in this Sandusky County town were placed end-to-end, the line would stretch halfway to the moon or could circle the Earth four and a half times. �We make 20,000 washers a day, five days a week. One rolls down the line and is shipped about every four seconds,� said Dan O�Brien, the manager who oversees the sprawling 2.4 million-square-foot facility in Clyde. n1patrioticfrums-7 Washing-machine drums move along the line at the Whirlpool plant in Clyde, Ohio. The plant makes top-loading and front-loading residential washers with various options and price points, plus coin-operated commercial washers. It is an impressive number to be sure. But not all that surprising considering Whirlpool Corp.�s Clyde facility has long been regarded as the largest washing machine plant in the world. Such bigness is evident given an inside peek of the sprawling factory that will celebrate 65 years of activity this year. But the plant is nowhere near retirement. Employing 3,000 workers, it remains a bustling beehive of people, parts, and equipment. About 100 workers were hired each of the last two years, and plans are to do the same the next two years, replacing retirees and other departures. Since 1952, when it began churning out machines looking more like clunky droids from Star Wars than the sleek programmable front-load and top-load boxes of today, the Clyde plant has been a major contributor to Benton Harbor, Mich.-based Whirlpool�s $21 billion appliance business. Whirlpool holds a 65 percent share of the $3.9 billion U.S. washer market, according to market research firm IbisWorld, Last year, 9.6 million washers were shipped in the United States. The company is a market leader with its Whirlpool, Maytag, and Amana brands, all made in Clyde, said Jim Keppler, vice president of integrated supply chain and quality for Whirlpool. The Maytag and Whirlpool brands give the company �strong customer loyalty, particularly among traditional consumers who are family oriented and look for reliable and long-lasting products,� according to research firm Euromonitor International. 0319-factbox-whirlpool-indd Most of what the factory makes is sold in North America. Whirlpool previously has said that about 10 percent of what is made in Clyde is exported to Europe, Australia, Latin America, and Asia. But the Clyde plant�s significance is much more than wash cycles and spin cycles. Way of life Whirlpool has been a way of life in Clyde for five generations of families. The plant has spawned countless marriages, children, and friendships, not to mention a tax base that helps pay for roads and schools and draws business. �Without Whirlpool being here, Clyde would still be a village and not a city,� said Scott Black, Clyde�s mayor and Whirlpool retiree who spent 41 years working in the plant. Clyde is 45 miles southeast of Toledo. �My family has four generations in there,� he said. �I met my wife there, and we�re connected to another family through there. Just about everybody who has ever worked there had a dad, a sister, a brother, or a cousin who worked there. �When you have that kind of connection, that tends to make it more personal. It�s more than a plant.� Made in Clyde The plant makes most of its own parts and then assembles them into washers, and thus, it has several �factories within a factory,� said Mr. O�Brien, the Whirlpool manager. It has a stamping facility, a plastic injection molding facility, a testing area, a training area, warehousing, and two assembly areas, one for front-loading and one for top-loading machines. The stamping area has two 1,500-ton stamping presses that together punch out 20,000 washing machine tops and fronts a day. A person will walk 3 miles circling around to each minifactory. The plant has a fleet of 70 autonomous vehicles hauling strings of carts loaded with parts, weaving their way through sections of the complex, passing by a mix of production machines, about 100 robots, and 1,000 shift workers. n1cylinderguy-5 Washing-machine drums are inspected at the Whirlpool plant in Clyde, Ohio. Employing 3,000 workers, the plant remains a bustling beehive of people, parts, and equipment. Overhead, 30 miles of conveyors wind their way throughout the plant, passing through wall openings, dipping down to where they�re needed, and floating back up when they�re not needed. At the trucking bays, dozens of tractor-trailer rigs pull in and out frequently, bringing parts from a network of suppliers that have sprung up around Clyde to meet the plant�s delivery schedule. In 2010, Whirlpool began what ended up being a $200 million investment in the Clyde plant. Mr. O�Brien said every production line in the plant was moved to locations that made the operation more efficient � and cleaner � than before. That may have been a key factor in the company�s 2014 decision to move from Monterrey, Mexico, to Clyde the production of commercial front-loader washers, creating 100 jobs. Mr. Keppler said the Clyde facility �is a leader in laundry manufacturing and will continue to make innovative new products for our North American region there.� An example of that innovation includes Whirlpool�s new Smart All-In-One Care Washer-Dryer combo introduced in January at the Las Vegas Consumer Electronics Show. It allows one load to be washed and dried in the same machine. The machine is not being made in Clyde yet but is expected to be later. Types of washers Overall, the plant makes top-loading and front-loading residential washers with various options and price points, plus coin-operated commercial washers. Two years ago, the plant began using a flexible production strategy to train workers how to make both front-loaders and top-loaders. Previously they were trained to make one or the other. The new strategy lets the plant quickly increase or decrease production of either top-loaders or front-loaders, depending on market demand, by shifting workers to what is needed. That has been important as top loaders have become more popular in the last few years than front-loaders, said Nick Baker, a spokesman for the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers. �You had the top load with the agitator, and for a while you had the higher efficiency front-loader in demand because they used less water,� Mr. Baker said. �But now people favor the top loader without the agitator.� More than half of top-load washers shipped in the United States last year did not have an agitator, he said. �Can-do� attitude The flex system also has a worker component, as groups of workers rotate jobs every 30 minutes for ergonomic benefits, said Roberto Miller, the plant�s head of operations. Given the mental strain that comes with a repetitive job, Whirlpool appoints a �spirit leader� for each assembly line who plans activities to keep boredom at bay. �You�re going to be here 40 hours. What you do for your employees is what makes you successful,� Mr. O�Brien said. �As leaders, our job is to empower [employees] and allow them to be creative.� Mr. Miller, who has spent 18 years at Whirlpool and been assigned to three other manufacturing plants, said he noticed something special about the Clyde plant. �They have a strong �can-do� attitude. They�re very approachable, friendly. You see smiles on their faces,� he said. �They always wave, and they are very engaged.� The attitude, he said, likely stems from the closeness of the Clyde community. Recently, a 51-year employee retired from the plant. Company officials also just honored two workers for perfect attendance of more than 30 years. Mr. Black, the Clyde mayor, said the camaraderie and spirit in the plant derives from the relationships outside of it. �It�s just a thing, and when I worked there it was kind of a joke, but it was true � if you worked there, you never said anything bad about the person next to you, because you were probably related to that person in some way,� Mr. Black said. He added: �The people are proud to do what they do because they know that the washing machines made in Clyde are the ones used in the whole country, really. That creates it a sense of pride that you�re doing that.� Contact Jon Chavez at: jchavez@theblade.com or 419-724-6128.

Post# 979529 , Reply# 3 1/23/2018 at 01:30 (2,274 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)
Checkrate/Likes 7 I feel the opposite, at this point I will not buy another WP product. They have skated for years, no innovations, just the same old same old. They don't want to compete just block the competition. I see that as pretty un-American.

Post# 979537 , Reply# 4 1/23/2018 at 04:03 (2,274 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)
Checkrate/Likes 6 Yeah, if you can't beat the competition, buy 'em out, shut 'em down, and lay 'em off. Newton used to be that kind of town too.

Post# 979549 , Reply# 5 1/23/2018 at 06:53 (2,274 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Right Greg,* and the tariff is also on solar panels. Most employment in the solar industry is installation, not manufacture. With solar panel costs increasing, unemployment could rise in the field if the tariff makes solar less than optimal for energy saving. New solar manufacturing start ups will no doubt need some federal assistance if current domestic makers can't meet demand. As usual, legislation can have a double edged sword. I recall the 80's, when our dollar was higher than the Yen, but people were buying Japanese cars anyway because they told me it was worth it because they wouldn't fall apart even though they were more expensive. Now I don't know the longevity of an LG or Samsung washer opposed to a Whirlpool product, but my sisters LG has outlasted both a post 2000 year Maytag and an earlier Kenmore. The only issue with it is the digital read out for the minutes is now dim.

Post# 979553 , Reply# 6 1/23/2018 at 09:01 (2,274 days old) by verizonbear (Glen Burnie )
Checkrate/Likes 5 *What may happen* Here's what I am thinking 1. Prices will go up do to lack of competition (maybe ) 2. LG and Samsung will build factories in the US to circumvent the tariff 3. R&D research will stall in the US ( without competition no reason to differentiate your product. 4. Frigidaire /Electrolux, Haier/GE and Bosch will profit from this because they have factories in the US already.

Post# 979558 , Reply# 7 1/23/2018 at 10:10 (2,274 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)
Checkrate/Likes 5 "and the tariff is also on solar panels. Most employment in the solar industry is installation, not manufacture. With solar panel costs increasing, unemployment could rise in the field if the tariff makes solar less than optimal for energy saving." I skimmed an article somewhere last night about this. Apparently the U.S. solar industry is not amused. Aside from possible layoffs, many domestic manufacturers use imported parts that will fall under this tariff. Therefore prices across the board will rise. If one were of a suspicious mind, one might think this were a plan to curtail growth of the industry as a whole...

Post# 979567 , Reply# 8 1/23/2018 at 10:59 (2,274 days old) by Dylanmitchell (Southern California)
Checkrate/Likes 4 Washing machine and solar tariffs are another plan that wasn't well thought out and will have unintended consequences. Creating a trade war isn't productive and other countries may add tariffs on U.S. goods. R&D will stall without competition as stated above and if solar is more expensive fewer people will install it. There's a lot of labor in solar installation so less work for Americans. A thorough evaluation of department of energy standards allowing washing machines and dishwashers to work better could be more productive. Or focusing on the rollout of solar farms which can be more efficient than rooftop solar and would create vs eliminated jobs. This post was last edited 01/23/2018 at 12:27

Post# 979588 , Reply# 9 1/23/2018 at 14:23 (2,274 days old) by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)
Checkrate/Likes 2 Have to agree with viewpoints here, very well thought out. Concerning solar panels and renewable energy, one viewpoint no one has mentioned is the tariffs are probably a strong push back from king coal and oil industries, sort of a tit for tat. Decades long dormant mines in the Appalachian region have reopened and/or slated to reopen, though I saw on the national news they are having a hard time finding miners with specialized skills willing to fill positions. Who wants black lung disease? (I think we, as a nation and society, have failed that area of the country in education and opening new manufacturing facilities to alleviate the poverty and ignorance. Now drugs have moved into many of those communities.) Much coal is exported to China. I, and I think many here on this board, would be greatly disturbed if power plants in our community switched back to burning coal. LG is going to have to build a plant, or renovate one, if they want to continue to do business here. But I think prices are going to skyrocket regardless, since parts to build the machines are imported in from abroad. Matt, I couldn't agree more with what you said. Whirlpool, you got what you asked for. Barry

Post# 979594 , Reply# 10 1/23/2018 at 15:59 (2,274 days old) by good-shepherd (New Jersey)
Checkrate/Likes 3 *TL over FL?* Line from Whirlpool article: "That has been important as top loaders have become more popular in the last few years than front-loaders", said Nick Baker, a spokesman for the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers. �You had the top load with the agitator, and for a while you had the higher efficiency front-loader in demand because they used less water,� Mr. Baker said. �But now people favor the top loader without the agitator.� I thought the current trend was in favor of front loaders

Post# 979599 , Reply# 11 1/23/2018 at 16:59 (2,274 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes 4 *Perhaps...* Instead of a race to the bottom, WP can now focus more of a better quality product. Up to now, they have had to cheapen out in order to compete. M.

Post# 979600 , Reply# 12 1/23/2018 at 17:25 (2,274 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)
Checkrate/Likes 5 I'm mixed on this whole thing. WP certainly is fighting headwinds from overseas machine dumping, and rising material costs. Labor costs are really not a huge factor, no matter how much companies want to cry about it; it's their favorite scapegoat. Employee insurance is the bigger albatross....alas that's for another discussion. I think this tariff will help in the short run. Appliances are historically cheap as hell. If we equated their prices to 1970s or 80s value, they'd be double price. They were a major investment back in the day. Not much longer. (Arguably their quality matches this) In the long run however, SS and LG will be back with vengeance with domestic production. Likely with dirt cheap Southern labor too. As well as heavy subsidies from their home country, so they'll just be "dumping" machines again domestically, skirting the tariffs. I agree there's a bit of a risk that it will lift the pressures to compete on WP, but that's really no guarantee. And to say they've not innovated in decades is a pretty short-sighted comment. In fact, if this community were to rabidly support anything, it would be AGAINST innovation. Innovation is what led WP from abandoning the belt drive and direct drive platforms. Innovation led to the VMW platform, regardless of how much people here hate it. It was engineering and development through and through. For a company like WP to invent the VMW platform, there was a need for teams of dozens of people in engineering, marketing, manufacturing, sourcing etc. It's not child's play to design a machine that lives in peoples' homes, spinning wet, heavy clothing at hundreds or thousands of rpms, year in and out. Doing it safely. In addition to that! It was also market forces and self inflicted financial forces (everything is short term stock gain now) that also drive many of these changes. Those cast metal transmissions, and stamped frames, and thick steel drums are very expensive with the rise of material costs. It's labor intensive and environmentally taxing to enamel coat all those drums. The investors are constantly pressuring companies to cut costs, while still maintaining performance. It's a challenging balancing act. It was WP innovation that further re-popularized front loaders in the USA after the Neptune rise and fall, with the Duet series. Everyone else followed the Duet. Again, whether you love it or hate it, the Duet is a remarkable, reliable platform for a front load machine at it's price point. First made in Germany and Mexico, and now in Ohio for several years. That also takes remarkable engineering for years of dependable service. From bearings, belts, baskets, motors....and what many people forget, the follies of shipping these things across nations and oceans. Those trips are insanely tough on products. The hell our smoke alarms have to be tested through, just so they survive shipping, are responsible for adding weeks to our development timeline. I can't imagine what it adds to a washing machine or dryer. In fact, there was an article I read years ago (wish I could find it) that described the engineering feats and failures and later successes, of bolstering the integrity of the pulley flywheel on the Neptunes, because they were prone to warping in extremely hot shipping conditions with the belt tension. Months of design and materials experimentation went into the final product. JUST so the pulley survives a semi-truck in an Arizona summer drive. Then there's the issue of harmonics. Spinning and vibrating at those speeds; something must be done to cancel out or ramp quickly past the harmonic resonant frequencies of the appliance, in order to shake itself to pieces. As well as not send all that vibration into your house, at risk of ruining floors, or WORSE, finding the resonant frequency of your laundry room! And every platform is different. So every new design they come out with, all that work needs to be RE-done. Against droning on, is WP perfect? No way. There are legit complaints about some of the products over the years. But they have gotten vastly better. Much to the scorn of my fine cohorts at AW, there are hundreds of thousands of users out there very happy with their wash plate Bravos' and Cabrios. Granted some have premature issues, and some people hate them. But the design mostly works as intended. I have nagging spin issues on my Maytag Maxima. Something is a little off, but I'm also on a 2nd floor of questionable construction. If you're going to be Nationalistic about American design and manufacturing, like I used to be. Then you're almost obligated to support WP. And to a lesser extent, GE/Haier KY or Electrolux US. And maybe down the road, LG or Samsung when they open their US plants. But if lowest price and most features regardless of source is your preference? Then this tariff is a raw deal.

Post# 979601 , Reply# 13 1/23/2018 at 17:27 (2,274 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)
Checkrate/Likes 3 Samsung and LG already are building washing machines in the US. Samsung in NC and LG in TN.

Post# 979605 , Reply# 14 1/23/2018 at 17:51 (2,274 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)
Checkrate/Likes 4 I'm not sure spitting a teaspoon of water on clothes and twirling them around into a knot is innovation, unless one considers innovation making something do it's sole job worse than ever before. I'm sure not a soul on this site would be against innovation if it meant the machines worked BETTER than previous generations, not WORSE.

Post# 979606 , Reply# 15 1/23/2018 at 17:58 (2,274 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)
Checkrate/Likes 5 *Yeah, sure, right* How much y'all wanna bet not one new 'muriKKKan job comes of this? Prices rise but no new jobs. Why, yes, those were my self-same objections to those around here screaming that Maytag must not be bought by the Chinese (who promised to keep the factory in place and the employees there, working) but must go to Whirlpool. Which did exactly what to the workers? Oh, right, they closed their factory and fired them.

Post# 979609 , Reply# 16 1/23/2018 at 18:09 (2,274 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes 2 Oh I don't know... www.bloomberg.com/news/ar...

Post# 979625 , Reply# 17 1/23/2018 at 20:31 (2,274 days old) by chetlaham (United States)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Innovation* If you mean machines that last less then there predecessors and have a shorter warranty, then I can understand why people would be rabidly resistant to innovation. Yes I do agree with you that designing anything requires teams of people and lots of time to test and re-test, but the VMW is not anything new. Its design was already in existence 30 years before Whirlpool adopted it their World Washers. The duets are heavily based on European design not their own, and the DW that Whirlpool is building now are again based on European technology decades earlier. Do they add their own twist? Sure and of course. But I hate to say it, Whirlpool hasn't innovated as much as you would like us to believe especially after their DDs. What was original however was the wig-wag design, as well as most other toploaders like GE, Frigidaire, and Maytag up to the DD design which is like no other anywhere on earth. As was the powerclean module, GE 1200, Whirlpool top filter dryer- all original and unique designs that outperform foreign products in many, many ways. Sadly the last 25 years has not been R&D or bettering the industry. Its been cheapening once great products to the point of short lived disasters while making cheesy euro clones that would be A LOT better if they were literally the real thing, ie just ship over the same carbon copy used in mainland Europe. Heck we have 20PSIG water, drain lines and 240 volts in our panels- I can improvise. What Whirlpool needs is an original thought and an original idea. Only then can we outdo the world.

Post# 979631 , Reply# 18 1/23/2018 at 20:58 (2,274 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)
Checkrate/Likes 6 Estimates of job losses in the solar installation trade. Maybe they can line up for 200 jobs at Whirlpool? (they'll be fighting for a place in that line with those recently laid off at Carrier) However, solar installers and manufacturers of other equipment used to run solar-power systems opposed tariffs, which they said will raise their prices and hurt demand for the renewable energy. The Solar Energy Industries Association, which represents installation companies, said billions of dollars of solar investment will be delayed or canceled, leading to the loss of 23,000 jobs this year. Mark Bortman, founder of Exact Solar in Philadelphia, said the prospect of tariffs, since the trade commission recommended them in October, had already caused him to delay hiring and expansion plans. “Solar is really just starting to take off because it is truly a win-win-win situation” for consumers, workers and the environment, he said. “Tariffs would really be shooting ourselves in the foot.” CLICK HERE TO GO TO gansky1's LINK

Post# 979641 , Reply# 19 1/23/2018 at 21:59 (2,274 days old) by Dylanmitchell (Southern California)
Checkrate/Likes 4 The first big discussion for 2018 was the department of energy standard effect on Speed Queen with new top loaders that may or may not clean clothes and delayed roll out of consumer front loaders that may or may not exist for 2018. Whirlpool, Maytag and Whirpools various other sub brands dominate the market but tbis this would be an ideal time for Speed Queen consumer units to gain market share. Except that energy standards forced their redesign. You could argue that the 2017 era Speed Queen models were great machines with a premium price that terrifs would have made more competitive. And I've heard there may be some Factory space available in Newton Iowa if they need it... I still think the tariffs are misguided and will cost jobs in solar and trade disputes we don't need. You can still get one of these for a while LFN50RSP115TW01 www.pwslaundrywest.com/i-... Or www.dexter.com/vended-laundry/ven...

Post# 979655 , Reply# 20 1/24/2018 at 03:59 (2,273 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)
Checkrate/Likes 2 LG will be employing 600 people in Clarksville, TN. CLICK HERE TO GO TO askolover's LINK

Post# 979702 , Reply# 21 1/24/2018 at 11:01 (2,273 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)
Checkrate/Likes 1 "If you mean machines that last less then there predecessors and have a shorter warranty, then I can understand why people would be rabidly resistant to innovation." I was not addressing those issues in detail Chet. Those could be summarized by my comments saying that WP still has issues in other areas. And so does the industry as a whole. Not too long ago, appliances had tiered warranties where racks and PCBs and drive components would be covered with addition 3-5yr warranties. But now, except for MT's skimpy 10yr warranties on silly parts that never break, and except for SQ's longer warranties, the WHOLE industry only now offers paltry 1yr warranties on everything. I'm not holding my breath, but I wonder if this extra domestic breathing room from the tariffs will inspire the companies to put some quality and warranties back in? Oh, and just because a concept existed 30 years prior, doesn't mean it cannot be innovated upon. The cell phone existed before the iphone. But Apple truly made the Smart Phone market that everyone eventually got into. And yes, I'm ignoring Blackberry, because if they were so great, they would've dominated first. And they didn't. Just because the VMW idea was already around, doesn't mean it wasn't further innovated upon and then successfully commercialized by WP.

Post# 979727 , Reply# 22 1/24/2018 at 14:29 (2,273 days old) by Dylanmitchell (Southern California)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Automobile production while different from appliance production has some parallels. Honda, Toyota, BMW and others opened non-union US based factories for a variety of reasons. Not sure about Whirlpool but I think Speed Queen has union jobs. And you can bet that LG and Samsung won't be opening union factories. The Auto industry does have some key differences like the Legacy cost of healthcare and a lot of other things I'm not getting into here.

Post# 979740 , Reply# 23 1/24/2018 at 16:19 (2,273 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)
Checkrate/Likes 3 Does the new SQ top-loader really use substantially less energy than the 2017 line? It certainly doesn't seem to use less water. Did extracting all those internal organs make a big difference in the amount of electricity it uses? Would be interesting to test both models in a real-world situation to find out the difference. Got a kick out of the PWS Laundry ad in Reply #19. Check out the shipping information.

Post# 979766 , Reply# 24 1/24/2018 at 17:58 (2,273 days old) by Dylanmitchell (Southern California)
Checkrate/Likes 2 Some PWS products only ship to California likely a result of Alliance assigning certain dealers certain territories. As a California it is very odd to see something restricted to sales here versus banned here. There's a long list of pesticides and chemicals and other things we can't get in California but this has more to with dealer regions.

Post# 979787 , Reply# 25 1/24/2018 at 20:02 (2,273 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Background article on the tariffs...* Excerpt: The tariffs were imposed not because of unfair trade practices by other countries, which is normally the case, but because U.S. manufacturers said they were being hurt by foreign competition. �This is an unusual trade law, rarely used,� says George Slover, senior policy counsel at Consumers Union, the policy and mobilization division of Consumer Reports. "It allows a challenge to imports based solely on the imported product making it too hard on the U.S. manufacturer. No unfair trade practice or other wrongful conduct needs to be alleged or shown." Read the entire article: CLICK HERE TO GO TO Blackstone's LINK

Post# 979790 , Reply# 26 1/24/2018 at 20:19 (2,273 days old) by washman (o)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *To quote buick from the 1940's* "When better automobiles are built, Buick will build them". When consumers demand better quality appliances, companies will build them. Of course, it will cost more, but always remember, the quality remains long after the price is forgotten.

Post# 979850 , Reply# 27 1/25/2018 at 06:55 (2,272 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Good Idea, Frig* I wonder just how much of a difference the energy savings of the 17 vs. 18 models. Of course this only applies to the Normal-Eco cycle. It seems they only needed to hit the check-box of auto-load-sensing to meet the mandate for 2018, right? Malcolm

Post# 979855 , Reply# 28 1/25/2018 at 07:29 (2,272 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *"Buick"* became known as Puick by 1980, and now are mostly built in China, where most are sold today. Build a better product, sell more, like Dyson? Or have a better marketing scheme, which also has worked, as with Shark for example. People can be very gullible. Our daughter didn't know Lincoln is a Ford product.

Post# 979858 , Reply# 29 1/25/2018 at 08:15 (2,272 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)
Checkrate/Likes 7 *So, basically, Whirlpool* Can't build appliances that are good enough to compete with the superior quality and features of foreign made goods. This is why they asked for tariffs. Yeah, that's real American know-how!

Post# 979932 , Reply# 30 1/25/2018 at 19:36 (2,272 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)
Checkrate/Likes *What has this come to?* What has this come to? The only difference between the Whirlpool and Maytag washer is the nameplate!

Post# 979933 , Reply# 31 1/25/2018 at 19:38 (2,272 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)
Checkrate/Likes *What has this come to?* What has this come to? The only difference between the Whirlpool and Maytag washer is the nameplate!What has this come to? The only difference between Whirlpool and Maytag is the name! That's it!

Post# 979939 , Reply# 32 1/25/2018 at 20:34 (2,272 days old) by enduring (Iowa)
Checkrate/Likes *Miele T1515 dryer ducting and other questions* I have now purchased my second, second hand T1515 dryer for my basement setup. I have to get the electrician over to add 2 more 240v outlets. I understand that the voltage splitters are no longer available from Miele. I need to duct this second set. I have heard that you shouldn't duct 2 ducts to 1 main duct. IIRC the adjusted length for ducting a miele is 33ft. Because of overhead obstructions I have to add a couple of extra elbows to one of the dryers. I have been thinking of an inline duct fan and have looked at Fantech only so far. I have an adjusted length of around 45'on the left dryer. This includes 4 elbows (5'each) and one outdoor vent (10'?). I know nothing about dryer fans. I need help. Questions: 1) can I add a fan that is easy to maintain and work as it should? 2) can I connect 2 dryers to one vent if I use a dryer fan (I've been told Its not a good idea)? 3) If anyone sees any other errors in my setup, I'm all ears. 4) Are voltage splitters a good idea? 5) If a fan is an option, what are good brands? View Full Size

Post# 979941 , Reply# 33 1/25/2018 at 20:44 (2,272 days old) by enduring (Iowa)
Checkrate/Likes How did I get this post on this thread!? I had intended to start my own thread. Sorry.

Post# 979990 , Reply# 34 1/26/2018 at 11:19 (2,271 days old) by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)
Checkrate/Likes 3 Nice Novotronics, Enduring - and how apt, given we've been talking extensively about quality vs cheapness. Those machines must be at least 15 years old, possibly 20 or more... alas, even Miele is not what it once was. BTW, how is it legal to exclude trade unions from factories? Despite Maggie Thatcher's crackdowns (and those of the more recent Cameron/May Tory regime), I believe that it is still a fundamental right for workers to be members of a trade union. In Germany, the unions are more powerful still, yet do you hear of tremendous industrial unrest there?!

Post# 980003 , Reply# 35 1/26/2018 at 12:27 (2,271 days old) by wishwash (Indiana)
Checkrate/Likes I don't see why Whirlpool would want this to be done. Maybe those of you who implied this could explain a little more, although I haven't taken the time yet to fully read this thread. In my area at least, Whirlpool products are considerably cheaper than other manufacturers. Hasn't anyone noticed how Whirlpools are most incentivized at big box stores? Whirlpool makes an entire suite of household appliances, not just washing machines. This tariff is only on washing machines. Which US company focuses on laundry products and just came out with a new design hoping to capture more market share? I can think of one.

Post# 980016 , Reply# 36 1/26/2018 at 14:28 (2,271 days old) by Kindalazy (toronto)
Checkrate/Likes 4 I�m SO glad I live in Canada, and not just because of this tariff...

Post# 980060 , Reply# 37 1/27/2018 at 00:34 (2,271 days old) by superocd (PNW)
Checkrate/Likes I'm all for keeping American jobs here but the toothpaste is already out of the tube. Tariffs can harm the economy and stifle the market. The best thing to do is to incentivise companies with tax breaks if they show tangible proof that they added American jobs (with no trickery or creative accounting). It should incentivise domestic and foreign companies. So, if LG or Samsung brings production over to the US (or increases the number of people needed to run their plants) then they should get a tax break. The US headquartered companies (Whirlpool, Alliance Laundry, is that it?) would get a tax break for maintaining US production and would see decreases in tax liability for adding jobs. It's just more fair that way. Speaking of tax breaks, I'd love to see a massive tax break package for everyone (working class, middle class and the wealthy -- all at the same time) and every company regardless of size and the IRS at the top of the scrap pile, but I disgress.

Post# 980062 , Reply# 38 1/27/2018 at 00:52 (2,271 days old) by superocd (PNW)
Checkrate/Likes @wishwash: I think Whirlpool would be content with this because washing machines don't last as long as a range or refrigerator. Most washers these days are lucky to see 10 years, in some cases it is less than five, so they'll snag more sales when people flock to the store (or online) to replace their failed washer, since washers historically need to be replaced more often than a range or refrigerator. The economy is doing better overall so then you factor in the people who have some free cash to upgrade a washer that works but is desired for replacement. People in the market for a washer will see a similar washer (in features and capacity) produced by LG, Samsung, and whatever Electrolux and GE builds overseas and then the ones produced by Whirlpool/Maytag (and the WP-built Kenmores) and notice the price discrepancy between the Whirlpool brands versus the foreign-produced ones. A lot of people buy on price (or at least it is a huge factor in the purchase) so naturally, Whirlpool would gain more sales, at least what is likely to play out in this scenario.

Post# 980137 , Reply# 39 1/27/2018 at 17:19 (2,270 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)
Checkrate/Likes I read an article someplace(maybe Reuters)that said Samsung was likely to absorb some of the tariff so the price increase would be slight maybe $10 to $15 dollars. Anyway many people buy for features so if the features they want are on a machine they will buy that, and a few extra dollars will not dissuade them. This news is now widely known so people know what is going on.

Post# 980184 , Reply# 40 1/28/2018 at 02:26 (2,269 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I used to work for Goldstar (LG now) in Alabama....believe me, they are very ANTI union!

Post# 980207 , Reply# 41 1/28/2018 at 08:25 (2,269 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes *Greg,* aren't most these days? Lucky Goldstar, made popular here by K Mart, and even the Price is Right. Notnin' lasts forever. Excessive Greed doesn't either. People work so they can afford to live, not to be endentured servants. I do believe the Korean labor force in Korea is mainly unionized. Autoworkers were on a short strike there last year either at GM Daewoo or Hyundai. Maybe they are here for cheaper labor? Lech Walecza was the Polish Solidarity union leader who championed for liberation form Soviet rule. He was an electrician and union rep. at the Danzik (Gdansk) ship yard. He then became Poland's first post communist president. The will of the people is union, and any government, or company that steals the hearts of people always fails. I think many have learned that lesson, so if they compensate workers fairly so they prosper, they have no need to organize an outside bargaining unit. Now that all also depends on other aspects, such as the buying power of currency, inflation, unemployment, cost of living, ability to invest and save, and education. For example, in university cities like Ann Arbor, or Morgantown W.V., the mean average income is higher than in the outlying areas, and thus so are real estate values. It's complicated. Who knew? I'm sure you do being a nurse for a university health system. Probably better than many politicians.

Post# 980239 , Reply# 42 1/28/2018 at 11:45 (2,269 days old) by washman (o)
Checkrate/Likes 1 According to Rush Limberger and Faux News, unions are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Post# 980250 , Reply# 43 1/28/2018 at 12:50 (2,269 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes *but but but,* that's not supposed to be the fake news channel, is it?

Post# 980259 , Reply# 44 1/28/2018 at 14:27 (2,269 days old) by washman (o)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *dunno* all the news today seems to be fake in some form or fashion.

Post# 980270 , Reply# 45 1/28/2018 at 15:52 (2,269 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes 4 *Some is for sure,* not all news. Some is speculation. Depends who it's about, and who likes or doesn't like them I guess. Even when there were small town news papers, there were always gossip columns, and cartoons about digniatries in office or running. It's called the free press. Wisdom is knowing when to ignore speculative news, and not call it fake because we don't agree or it doesn't agree with us. At the end of the day, or end of the hearing or trial, the only news that matters is the findings of evidence and jury verdicts, black or red ink on the books, and the number count of actual subjects. Also if the story is a beaten dead horse, is it new(s), or old? Objective reporting is more difficult today. If someone pays to put out a story that isn't objective, it can lead gullible people to believe it, like the pied piper. So I like to be objective, and even listen to the opposition. The I can often read between the lines and find some truth. Know the enemy or the negative, then see through the bias.

Post# 980276 , Reply# 46 1/28/2018 at 16:42 (2,269 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)
Checkrate/Likes 2 Here are a few key phrases for y'all to think about -- they are slightly different because they convey slightly different things. There are more in the article the link takes you to. But the thing they all have in common, in my opinion, its that what #45 (and a lot of his friends) really want is Pubic Relations/Advertising, not* journalism/news.* �Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed; everything else is public relations.� �News is something somebody doesn�t want printed; all else is advertising.� 1) News is what somebody does not want you to print. All the rest is advertising. 2) News is something which somebody wants suppressed: all the rest is advertising 3) News is anything anybody wants to suppress; everything else is public relations. 4) Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed; everything else is public relations. �Whatever a patron desires to get published is advertising; whatever he wants to keep out of the paper is news,� is the sentiment expressed in a little framed placard on the desk of L. E. Edwardson, day city editor of the Chicago Herald and Examiner. CLICK HERE TO GO TO earthling177's LINK

Post# 980615 , Reply# 47 1/30/2018 at 16:07 (2,267 days old) by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)
Checkrate/Likes I wonder if President Trump is going to say anything about the new tariffs in his speech State of the Union address. Anyone planning on watching it?

Post# 980626 , Reply# 48 1/30/2018 at 18:20 (2,267 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Maybe until it gets* too conceited. Stormy Daniels is going to be on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

Post# 980916 , Reply# 49 2/1/2018 at 22:34 (2,265 days old) by wishwash (Indiana)
Checkrate/Likes @superocd, I'm not saying that Whirlpool would have an issue with these tariffs. It will surely help their bottom line. My comment was directed toward those implying that Whirlpool put pressure on our government to put these tariffs in place. It doesn't seem to be that way since Whirlpool is consistently less expensive than the competition, so they are clearly able to make good money and compete without tariffs on imported machines.

Post# 980951 , Reply# 50 2/2/2018 at 08:46 (2,264 days old) by washman (o)
Checkrate/Likes *clarification* Faux News=Fox News. I have some holy roller acquaintances that proclaim Fox News is the one, the only, reliable news source and any other snippet of news from any other source is to be discounted, not trusted nor believed.

Post# 980955 , Reply# 51 2/2/2018 at 09:13 (2,264 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes *Of course they do Ben,* and that's being as biased as any of the other news sources. They don't get that equality doesn't mean identical sameness to them, their belief, values, or much else. We are all free, which means more choices. Choices are freedom,and not forced on anyone. Their freedom of choice is as protected by the bill of rights and constitution as anyone else's is. It has never been joepardized. Nobody is perfect, so learn to live and work together. I've read some books; I'm Ok, you're Ok, everybody else is sick, written in the late 1960's, The Late Great planet Earth, that was an eye and a mind opener. Talking straight by Lee Iacoca, who I idealized in my own career ethics. He is in his 90's now, but was a conservative. If someone is smart, they are smart, regardless of their politics, but if dumb, the same goes. Two way street. So I read between the lines, and divide what people say by their phone number, as an old friend of mine used to tell me. Now he was a real welder, and a darn good one, and I'm not just saying so because he was in my audience. I actually saw his work, and learned a bit of it myself.

Post# 980956 , Reply# 52 2/2/2018 at 09:14 (2,264 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)
Checkrate/Likes *LG also* announced their new Clarksville Tn. plant before this tariff was announced.

Post# 980963 , Reply# 53 2/2/2018 at 10:05 (2,264 days old) by washman (o)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I'm ok, I think, and the Speed Queen is ok too I think. Only snag right now is my local watering holes are out of SA Winter Lager and have moved to Alpine Spring...................blech!

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