Thread Number: 74419  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
Bold laundry detergent?!!
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Post# 982186   2/10/2018 at 17:34 (250 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        


Long time lurker, first time poster. Great to meet everyone!

I have a question, and I’m hoping that someone may be able to shed some light on this one for me.

Whenever I shop at some of these “close out” stores (Ollie’s, National Wholesale Liquidators, Big Lots), I’m pretty much guaranteed to find some neat detergents. And yesterday was no exception. While at Big Lots, I care across Bold detergent, which has been discontinued in the US for about four years now. As someone that loves a good powdered laundry detergent, and misses Bold something fierce, I purchased it.

I was curious as to whether this was the UK formula. There is an 800 number on the side of the box, that when called, brings you to the Tide help line. I asked the representative if they knew anything about this. After sitting on hold for what seemed like an eternity, they came back, and told me that I probably purchased “UK stock“ – and that it was up to me as to whether I wanted to use it or not. I told the rep that of course I’d like to use it, and we parted ways.

There is no mention on the box of this being a UK product. If anything, it mentions that it is made in Toronto.

With that said, I am curious if this is a new product (it has a 2017 copyright on it), if it comes in other scents, and if there is a liquid format.

Does anyone have any ideas? For now, I’m going to enjoy it – it smells terrific!

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Post# 982190 , Reply# 1   2/10/2018 at 17:46 (250 days old) by RP2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        
Welcome Steve!

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What type of washer are you using with this stuff?  I haven't been able to use any P&G powders since they changed their HE formula to "for both" types of machines because they produce way too much suds. 


I see on the Bold box that it has just the HE logo without images or copy stating it's for both types of machines, so may give this a try in my front loader if I find it at my local Big Lots.  Since instructions are in both English and French, this seems to be Canadian packaging.

Post# 982199 , Reply# 2   2/10/2018 at 18:08 (250 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Welcome Steve....

interesting.....we have a new Ollie's opening up here in town, I will have to be on the lookout for that....

I expected it to be a plain detergent, but it does contain enzymes, so may turn out to be a decent detergent....

but am puzzled by the dosage for an HE load.....I would have expected more for a standard TLer....

keep us posted to how you make out.....

Post# 982201 , Reply# 3   2/10/2018 at 18:37 (250 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

I’ve already used it twice. I have a front-loader (an old stackable Kenmore that came with my apartment). It’s not terribly sudsy (I’d actually prefer to see more suds), but it certainly dissolves quick. Fragrance is awesome. I can’t really describe it, though. Sort of citrusy with melon? Nowhere near as sickly as some of those again scents.

I have tried finding more information on it through Procter & Gamble’s Canadian website, but it is not listed.

I’m not sure if Ollie’s carries this, but it’s definitely at Big Lots. I purchase mine in Morrisville, PA, and saw ample stock at the one in Hamilton, NJ.

Post# 982217 , Reply# 4   2/10/2018 at 20:47 (250 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

To build on this, I’ve attached a picture of the washer and dryer that I have. The washer, as you can see, is a fairly standard front loader. I have no idea how old it is.

Also, take a look at Bold’s scoop (right), compared with the scoop for some Indian Ariel powder that I picked up at an off-brand (read: truly trashy) closeout store near Camden. I’ve never seen a scoop that small.

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Post# 982218 , Reply# 5   2/10/2018 at 20:54 (250 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

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Note that it says "imported for" P&G, Toronto, which = not made in Canada (otherwise it wouldn't need to be imported).

It says "distributed by" P&G, Cincinnati, which along with the French instructions means this box was intended to be sold in both the U.S. and Canada.

If it was of non-US origin, it should have been labeled Made in [Wherever] under US law.

I suspect it was made in the US to be distributed through dollar stores and "closeout" type places. For years, I've seen Era liquid at Big Lots when nobody else has it. This is probably some similar arrangement. They're squeezing some bucks out of their dead brands.

Post# 982230 , Reply# 6   2/10/2018 at 23:50 (250 days old) by RP2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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John, the scenario you describe sounds fairly accurate to me, but I'm still curious about why a 2017 box doesn't have the "for both" graphics on it.  I may have to gamble on a box.  I can always use it in my old Maytag if it's too sudsy for my Affinity.


Steve, that washer you have is one of the best American front loaders, and it was produced before the water restrictions became ridiculous.  It may not be the largest capacity, but those machines seem to run forever.


I would certainly not use a full scoop with that machine, and maybe not even with an old school top loader unless I was washing a seriously filthy load.  The size of that scoop is all about P&G wanting to sell more detergent.

Post# 982250 , Reply# 7   2/11/2018 at 03:06 (250 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

@ RP2813 - agreed. My brother has a relatively new (and fancy) Samsung front-loader, and I’d take my machine over his, any day. If I were to ever buy my own place, I’d love to seek one of these machines out. The capacity may not be huge, but I’ve washed full-sized comforters in it, without issue. And I love the “fast” setting for its spin cycle. No idea what kind of RPM it runs at, but it’ll leave certain garments (fleece, especially) near dry when removed.

Post# 982251 , Reply# 8   2/11/2018 at 03:11 (250 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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In the first picture it reads "Do no induce vomiting"
Is this proper English ?

Then it goes on "This package contains 63 medium loads, on average, based on weight as measured to bar 1 on scoop"
But picture #2 shows a level 2 scoop for a medium load ?

No "for both" graphics ?

I also find it hard to believe that there are no nonionic surfactants listed in a current enzyme containing P&G detergent and their help line not knowing the product ?

I wonder if this might be a fake.
Plagiarism is not only restricted to high fashion items.

Post# 982255 , Reply# 9   2/11/2018 at 04:32 (250 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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THAT is the best of the best series of washer they built....keep note of that control panel...

first generation machines had a linkage setup from the timer dial, that would wear over time, and not dispense as needed....this model has solenoid activated dispensers...

some models spun at medium, and boosted to high speed for 1 minute at the end....this one spins full speed the whole way through....

takes a lot to kill one of these.....even if it eventually requires new bearings/seals....inexpensive enough, and quick to repair...

and note, these never required a 'clean washer' cycle....

always favored the Kenmore version of these, especially the dryer offering a stainless drum as well...

next time your near Camden, visit the Habitat ReStore in Pennsauken on Rt130, and a huge Dollar Discount store out front, they carry a variety of there are all sorts of thrift stores along 130 from Burlington on should join us for a thrifting run sometime...

Post# 982258 , Reply# 10   2/11/2018 at 06:02 (250 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"Do not induce vomiting"

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Yes, it is proper English. It means that first-aiders must NOT try to make the patient purposely vomit. Doing so could cause secondary damage to the oesophagus.

Our Bold would have the P&G UK, Weybridge, Surrey, with an '0800' phone number.

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Post# 982259 , Reply# 11   2/11/2018 at 06:12 (250 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Sorry, I misread your post (my brain added a 't' in, where there wasn't one)!

Regarding the lack of ingredient info on the Canadian site: Perhaps they're just too slow to get their site updated.

Post# 982260 , Reply# 12   2/11/2018 at 06:14 (250 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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So you can say "do no induce vomiting" and "do not induce vomiting" interchangeably ?
I didn`t know that. Sorry for the confusion.

Post# 982261 , Reply# 13   2/11/2018 at 06:16 (250 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        
Ooops too

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You seem to just have posted while I was still busy with writing :-)

Post# 982262 , Reply# 14   2/11/2018 at 06:21 (250 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Bold... Canadian

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The photos in the original post, also show 'colour' as spelt the American way, and the 'he' logo. UK products don't have those.

Post# 982263 , Reply# 15   2/11/2018 at 06:23 (250 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Serves me right for 'jumping the gun'! Haha

Post# 982264 , Reply# 16   2/11/2018 at 06:29 (250 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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No... somebody definitely DID leave out the 't' on the packaging. Otherwise it is bad grammar. Perhaps it's been translated from French badly, or they've simply missed out the 't' in 'not'. :)

Post# 982272 , Reply# 17   2/11/2018 at 08:28 (250 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

@yogitunes: Are you talking about the discount dollar store next to the “Supreme” supermarket on 130, near the Pennsauken/Camden border? If so, that’s where I grabbed the Indian Ariel! They were selling it for $1.35 a box; I picked up 12 boxes, and split it betwixt my neighbor and I.

As crazy as this is going to sound, I think I’ve found my online “home”. It’s nice to talk with folks who “geek out” over laundry products/machines as much as I do - even if my family, girlfriend, and colleagues don’t share my opinions! Haha!

Post# 982276 , Reply# 18   2/11/2018 at 09:41 (250 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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One: This variety of Bold was never sold in North American market when P&G still produced. Last incarnations were Bold "2in1" and a ultra compact powder.

Thus we can assume this is a "lower shelf" or whatever import from P&G for French Canada/North American market.

Two, it is obvious from the grammar package directions were translated into English (and likely via a computer and not a native American English speak IMHO), from French.

At least in French there isn't a single adjective negation/not. You've "ne pas", and a few others. Ne provoque pas de vomissement is "do not induce vomiting", so you can see, well there you are.

Three, P&G customer service likely wouldn't know this variation of Bold no more than they would any of the other products sold only in UK or Europe; why should they? P&G customer service likely does not know much about Tide, so (again) there you are.

Years ago now there was a series of discount shops in New York City called Nationwide Discount. At their Broadway store here in Manhattan back in the day would find all sorts of detergents and products that hadn't seen elsewhere. Plenty of products from P&G, Unilever and so forth in French which one assumes means they came from "up north".


Lack of non-ionic surfactants per se isn't a bad thing. Generally anionic surfactants are highly frothing, but that can be compensated for by foam control agents. There is also the fact this Bold obviously isn't a TOL detergent offering from P&G like Ariel or Tide. Thus likely does not have an advanced cocktail of ingredients. Going by that scoop this detergent also seems not to be "compact" either. So again mayhaps P&G isn't putting all their cutting edge technology into that product.

Bold in UK/Europe for sometime now has been more about scent than performance IMHO. Going by that scoop this detergent also seems not to be "compact" either.

Post# 982289 , Reply# 19   2/11/2018 at 10:16 (250 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

I had to laugh---Dawn dishwashing liquid was mis-labeled for many years with an incorrect spelling. The pink (hand care) variety had Protease (I guess it helped with keeping hands smooth, except it was spelled "Protese" for a long time in the last couple years (it's been fixed since). This is a weird one; you almost could see it being counterfeit if P&G toll-free didn't know any thing about it. ISTR that Bold was available recently at Lowe's lumber--it was the old US formula with softening action, though.

Post# 982290 , Reply# 20   2/11/2018 at 10:25 (250 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Mystery solved

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To one's eye the graphics are same.....

From a marketing background point of view it would seem to throw people off P&G may have come up with a new name (not unheard of for that lot) for same product that was selling elsewhere.

This also explains why cannot lay hands upon nor otherwise find any information regarding "Tropical Orchard".

Post# 982291 , Reply# 21   2/11/2018 at 10:28 (250 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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yeah, that's the one.....

theres also a huge indoor flea market on 130N in Edgewater Park.....their only open Fri/Sat/Sun I can find some great buys there on all sorts of stuff...especially the food market at each end, and we always stops at Lisa's for lunch...

we'll stay in contact if you want to join us for a romp around Jersey hitting all these thrift never know what your going to find...we usually meet in Cinnaminson and car pool from there...

because the demographics of the area, in Camden, Forman Mills is way cheaper on pricing than their other locations...

you will gather a lot more from this site if you become an upgraded member, minimal cost for all you get out of it....

Post# 982292 , Reply# 22   2/11/2018 at 10:28 (250 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Apparently Bold Plus ultra powder detergent is sill being made/sold in USA.

Does not seem to have a very wide distribution however.

Post# 982293 , Reply# 23   2/11/2018 at 10:30 (250 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
P&G misspelling...

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Agreed, they have previous form.

They had a variant of Fairy Dishwasher pods (Lemon), labelled as 'Citrus Groove'!
It should have been 'Citrus Grove'.

Post# 982322 , Reply# 24   2/11/2018 at 14:51 (250 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
It’s not...

The exact product we have in U.K.

One, our powders don’t come with scoops any more and haven’t done properly for about 10 years, (you have to send away for them - we’ll either phone up or order online) and they look different to that one in the picture, it’s more of a “cup” type with a handle.

The scent name is different we don’t have a Bold “Tropical Orchard”.

But the graphics are the same and even though our Bold in that colour is called “Sparkling Bloom and Yellow Poppy” I’d put money on it that it smells the same.

Post# 982324 , Reply# 25   2/11/2018 at 14:53 (250 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        
Just a question ....

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.... what is the bare code number on the package?

The first 3 digits tells us where the Company is based, sometimes but not always this could be also the Country of origin.

Post# 982326 , Reply# 26   2/11/2018 at 15:04 (250 days old) by liamy1 (-)        

And their names are hilarious, some of the ones we have had over the years....

Crushed Silk and Jasmine anyone?, White Diamond and Lotus flower? Or how about Hibiscus and Lime?

Does anyone know what crushed silk or white diamonds smell of? If you do, let me know lol. Or how about Hibiscus, (a flower renowned for having no scent at all).

We always have a line of Bold in 4 different scents (5 this time) on sale here in UK, they’re overhauled every couple of years and the scents and scent names are changed (the Blue one and the Purple one are mainstays, but will still have their scents tweeked and scent names changed). Don’t get me wrong, most of the scents are nice, but they don’t smell of what they’re called.

It’s the exact same with Surf, they have at least 4 scents in powder and around 10 in liquid and liquid capsules, scents with questionably exoctic names for them. Surf have new one just released called Caribbean Crush, go figure,,,

Post# 982337 , Reply# 27   2/11/2018 at 15:41 (250 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Just read...

Your post @Laundress, yes here in the U.K. Bold (and Surf) are designed and marketed mostly on the basis of scent.

As mentioned above, between Bold and Surf, a consumer would have choice of at least 20 different scents.

Add on to this the various scent booster beads (unstoppble or the ones from comfort) and the softeners we have, probably couldn’t count the combinations one could make.

We even have “premium” softeners now, costing up to £8 for a relatively small bottle that has no indication of amount of washloads you would get for a bottle, so you could end up sending a fortune.

Apparently this is because from all their market research, that scent is the single biggest influencer of purchase and would only be compromised if it was a product that was absolutely dire at cleaning, but then of course they have Vanish and what not to sort that.

Post# 982373 , Reply# 28   2/11/2018 at 19:06 (249 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

@ gorenje: Ask, and you shall receive. I’ve attached a picture of the barcode.

@ yogitunes: Yes - please keep me apprised on these outings! It’d be a lot of fun! As I lived in Cherry Hill for a few years, I know that section of South Jersey quite well.

The other thing I’ve noticed, is that this particular variety of Bold doesn’t mention a built-in fabric softener. As such, I assume that it’s a powder, similar in concept to Gain - a heavily fragranced detergent, sold solely on a great scent. Unlike Gain, I love the smell of this “new” Bold.

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Post# 982418 , Reply# 29   2/11/2018 at 23:28 (249 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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if you join the upgraded member section, it will be a lot easier to find/make contact with you...

or add an email to the profile...

Post# 982662 , Reply# 30   2/13/2018 at 14:39 (248 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
An update...sort of.

Deciding that I wasn't going to rest until I got some answers, I contacted P&G again - this time, with the bar code. It did, in fact, come up as "Bold" in their system...which threw both the CSR and her supervisor for a loop, as both insisted that the product has been discontinued since 2013. There was no explanation for the 2017 copyright date on the package.

They did, however, say a few things.

1: There's no record of it at all in their North American database.

2: This is NOT UK product.

3: It is not a private-label produced for Big Lots, as they do not do such things.

4: If there's a powder, there has to be a liquid.

5: Obviously, since they know nothing about the product, they know nothing about whether it comes in other scents, or even a liquid.

I asked if there was an e-mail address that I could send the photos that I took over to, to see if anyone else might know. They do not have e-mail addresses (apparently, it's an inbound call center).

So...I did the next best thing. I contacted them - with photos - through Facebook. Will probably do Twitter, too.

Stay tuned...

Post# 982670 , Reply# 31   2/13/2018 at 14:59 (248 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Could it be meant for the Canadian market only?

Weird indeed.

Post# 982678 , Reply# 32   2/13/2018 at 16:15 (248 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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This is the last Bold available in the USA, the barcode is slightly different because it is a diferent article.

Maybe it could be that your detergent is made in the USA but only for the Canadian market...

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Post# 982679 , Reply# 33   2/13/2018 at 16:16 (248 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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Post# 982683 , Reply# 34   2/13/2018 at 16:34 (248 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

Bold in the UK and Ireland is probably not a UK product either.
It's Dash in France, Bolt in Italy and some other markets.

Bold Powder says it's packed in the UK.
Bold, Fairy and Ariel laundry liquids are all made in France.

They're all multinational brands.

Typically, the European products made by the big manufacturers are the same products under different local brands that were acquired or developed over the decades.

Post# 982706 , Reply# 35   2/13/2018 at 21:23 (247 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Am saying this again

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Product obviously is not made in North America but somewhere else and imported to Canada.

No one in their right mind would "bootleg" a P&G product. They've scores of well paid attorneys all over the globe that would bring so much legal action against an offender that their grand-children would need lawyers.

Fact that this particular version of Bold shares at least a very similar package design as a version sold in UK means wherever it comes from it is likely a shared source.

How much information telephone customer service agents can access regarding things is often controlled, this even for companies with worldwide sales networks.

My AEG people in Canada basically can only access information regarding models sold in North America to a certain point. Anything else such as older models and or things not sold at all on this side of pond results in contacting their main offices overseas.

For years now P&G packaging for various household products including laundry have been both in English and French. One assumes this was done to cut down packaging, marketing and other costs. There are also products we down south cannot get but are sold in Canada (Tide Coldwater free/clear comes to mind).

If you examine P&G's "Bold" website that poppy or whatever flower and the orangeish color scheme are featured many times.

Post# 982707 , Reply# 36   2/13/2018 at 21:28 (247 days old) by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

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This detergent doesn't seem to be in limited distribution as my local Big LOTS has it too, I checked today.

Post# 982711 , Reply# 37   2/13/2018 at 21:59 (247 days old) by iej (Ireland)        
Could be test marketing.

It's quite possible that it's a small batch being used as a test case for some relaunch of Bold 2-in-1.
P&G recycle their product ideas all the time and if you were going to test market something, you'd probably just import the EU range in this case, box them and sell them in an isolated market like one Canadian city.

Also due to CETA, Canada and the EU have free-trade now. So, it could be P&G starting to bring European consumer products into Canada as they're less tarrifed than bring US ones in, although it has a US distribution address on it.

It wouldn't make any sense to 'bootleg' a detergent. They're low margin consumer goods. So, I would strongly suspect it's most likely a market test with those formulas.

Bold (Bolt/Dash etc) is a TOL detergent with a focus on fragrance / fabric softness and it plays a useful role as a 2nd tier for P&G in Europe where Ariel occupies the same position as Tide in their range.

So, maybe they're considering bringing Bold to the North American market as a 2nd range to drive market share in the same way - totally focused on fragrances.

Or they could be about to launch those formulas as versions of Tide.

Post# 982712 , Reply# 38   2/13/2018 at 22:05 (247 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        

@ iej: I was also wondering if it's a possible "test market", especially since they really don't have much information. P&G did this about 5 or 6 years ago, with a toilet paper called "Tempo". My local supermarket (a now-defunct chain, I might add) had it for sale at an incredible price. I picked it up, and loved it. Turns out, it was re-packaged a year later as "Charmin Ultra Soft".

As for fragrance-heavy...not sure. We have a detergent called "Gain", and that seems to be a product heavily reliant on scent. But anything is possible....

Post# 982718 , Reply# 39   2/13/2018 at 23:51 (247 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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Unless Big Lots has completely abandoned their previous business model, a lot of what they carry is close-out merchandise.  If anything, finding Bold in their stores is more likely an indication of a failed marketing scheme rather than a test marketing endeavor.  Big Lots is basically a poor man's stripped down Walmart; sort of a murky eddy outside of the mainstream.  Not exactly a targeted demographic.


I buzzed over to my nearest Big Lots and found this Bold there today so I got a box.  It's not bargain priced IMO, at around $8.50 per box (another reason to suspect it's not a promotional campaign), but it's still reasonable, and I'll buy more if it doesn't suds up too much.  I've only washed a fleece sheet with it so far, and suds weren't out of control (I'm using a smaller scoop from some other P&G powder that dates back to the original HE forumula).  The real test will be a load of whites, which I should be doing before the week is out.


Thanks for alerting us to this, Steve.  I sure hope this means I can go back to powder, at least for as long as this stuff is available.





This post was last edited 02/14/2018 at 06:33
Post# 982719 , Reply# 40   2/13/2018 at 23:53 (247 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Can't see P&G reintroducing Bold

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At least to USA after having shed that brand and many others just recently in a downsizing.

Besides as noted Gain is P&G's current *fragrance* laundry product line, with some spill over into Tide (Tide with Downy and so forth).

We know from the packaging the stuff was meant for North American market, as "HE" does not exist in Europe. For places like Middle East where both top and front loaders are common, P&G, Henkel etc.. simply just use pictures of both types of machines (as on my boxes of Saudi Arabian Persil).

Probably easiest way to sort this out is getting ahold of the MSDS information which must exist somewhere. I've searched both US and UK P&G/Bold websites and there is no mention of anything "Tropical Orchard".

That being said the trademark for "Tropical Orchard" is only about one year old and is registered to P&G

Interestingly same person responsible for the above trademark also did "Bold" for P&G which was registered at same time.

Post# 982722 , Reply# 41   2/14/2018 at 00:19 (247 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

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For proof the P&G representatives are lying about them not doing private labels, consider this from the New York Times about the spinoff of Oxydol.

"Under the deal, Procter & Gamble, arguably the American consumer products company with the greatest influence among retailers, will still take care of the ordering, shipping and billing systems used for Oxydol, which will continue to be made at a P.& G. plant. It also has an undisclosed minority stake in the company. Redox, based in the Cincinnati suburb of West Chester, Ohio, will be making the strategic decisions."


Post# 982726 , Reply# 42   2/14/2018 at 00:37 (247 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

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The previous version of Bold, illustrated in the picture by Ingemar (gorenje), was available in second tier retailers like Family Dollar and Lowes. It filled their need for a recognizable brand name at a somewhat lower price point than Tide or Gain. I think the same thing is going on here.

While nobody respects the acumen of Launderess more than I do, I still tend to think this product is more likely domestic than not. Remember P&G tried to market a US version of Mexican Ariel a few years ago, rather than import the real thing. For a company with their resources, it would be child's play to tweak a detergent and scent formula, copy some already-existing Euro graphics, and presto, a new low end product -- that would seem to be cheaper for them than shipping a low value product all the across the ocean. Plus there'd be less chance of the product deteriorating in shipment. Just a thought.

Post# 982729 , Reply# 43   2/14/2018 at 00:49 (247 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
No more it's not.

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When P&G first spun off Oxydol to that group of in house individuals who formed Redox the product was basically same. P&G was *NEVER* *EVER* going to give an outside company no matter how well connected access to their patents including the activated bleaching system which made Oxydol famous.

Remember Oxydol made it's mark after losing the battle as a soap power to Tide, by re-emerging later as a detergent with (oxygen) bleach. That later became an activated bleaching system based upon P&G's NBOS oxygen bleach activation systems.

Sadly for Oxydol P&G transferred that system to Tide (which became Tide with Bleach) and then it was off to the races. P&G continued to improve and refine their activated bleaching system but kept those to their TOL product; Tide. With that housewives no longer needed Oxydol and sales plummeted.

Indeed it has only been rather recently that P&G has moved *some* of their activated bleaching systems to Gain. Of course they long have used it with Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent. This is all easily sourced by looking up patent numbers on packets.

The other product sold off at that time was Biz, which went from being originally an enzyme presoak to an activated oxygen bleach (with enzymes), again courtesy of P&G's research and patents. However same thing happened as with Oxydol; Tide with Bleach replaced need for a separate product so Biz sales plummeted.

Neither Biz nor Oxydol sold today have anything to do with P&G.

Post# 982746 , Reply# 44   2/14/2018 at 06:08 (247 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

Yeah, I think you're point is well taken--essentially the product manager for Oxydol made the case to spin it off to him, with P&G continuing manufacture and s/he just taking over marketing. They did the opposite thing with their bar soaps--spun off the Ivorydale facility where they made it to a private label packer and had them continue to produce Ivory etc. Redox (if it even exists) was named for the chemistry behind the activated bleaching, actually! By now they just slap their name on something one of the private labelers (Sun? Korex?) puts together.

Post# 982747 , Reply# 45   2/14/2018 at 06:09 (247 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

These companies change starategies all the time.

Their main aim tends to be to occupy as much shelf space as possible with umpteen varients of the same product. You're being given an illusion of choice by having 49 versions of the same thing.

Bold in Europe is more like alternative top tier product. It's definitely not a discount brand. If you look at the formulas, they've basically got a base formula for powder, liquid, pouch/pack and gel formulations and they just tweak them by adding various extras basic or complex enzyme cocktails, bleaches and obas, and different scents.

They've usually got a 2nd tier like Daz or Ariel Basic in some markets.

In the EU markets the big threat is definitely increasingly sophisticated private label alternatives.

In the USA, it could be a combination of that and the arrival of Henkel.

In both markets you're also seeing them trying to get into the ecological detergents market as it's fairly clear that consumers want those kinds of products and are willing to pay for them and you've got growing and increasingly effective brands like ecover etc etc.

I'd strongly suspect you're seeing some kind of test product quietly rolled out in some part of Canada in a limited distribution.

For example, as a marketeer, you might want to analyse how well recalled the Bold brand is and whether it's worth reviving.

Post# 982748 , Reply# 46   2/14/2018 at 06:15 (247 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

You may well be on to something there...all the soapers have been struggling with their strategies as they're increasingly unable to raise price (P&G at the forefront)...this iteration of Bold, though, seems indistinguishable in USP (unique selling point) than Gain in the US; and so not a terribly valid proof-point of product appeal. We shall see--though isn't an MSDS declaration required for interstate commerce?

Post# 982751 , Reply# 47   2/14/2018 at 06:26 (247 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Something odd about UK 'ACE' too.

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I had noticed recently, that 'Ace' stain remover/booster is not listed on the UK

It seems that P&G have spun it off to a third party, probably to market it more efficiently. (No mention of P&G copyright whatsoever). Case study:

The link below, shows other well known brands: Tena Lady, Wilkinson Sword, Zoflora (disinfectant) and Covonia (cough medicine), alongside Ace.

I wonder if Ace has been pushed side-ways, like Unilever's Persil Dishwashing/dishwasher products have been licenced for production and promotion by McBride of Manchester?


Post# 982753 , Reply# 48   2/14/2018 at 07:28 (247 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Am not arguing, well not much. *LOL*

What throws one is that the packet clearly states this product is imported.....

Now while that could mean it came from down south (United States), just cannot see why or how P&G would ramp up production on just the one product to send it to Canada. Especially if one's other hunch is correct in that some version of this "Tropical Orchard" or whatever is being sold elsewhere in the world.

Suppose only way to settle this is for someone with enough brass to call P&G corporate and not being fobbed off to a minor functionary, speak with someone who does know the deal.

When P&G was called out (and IIRC sued) because phosphate versions of their Mexican detergent were making it onto USA shelves they soon enough put a stop to things. This after saying at first there was little they could do because stores were getting the stuff second or third hand from dealers.

Post# 982773 , Reply# 49   2/14/2018 at 10:25 (247 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

Just received a response from P&G corporate through Facebook. I’m not going to hold my breath, but it’s a start…

“We certainly appreciate you reaching out to us, Steve! We've went ahead and passed this onto our team. We'll be sure to contact you when we have more information.”

And now...we wait.

Post# 982774 , Reply# 50   2/14/2018 at 10:52 (247 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
P&G's 'corporate speak'

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"We certainly appreciate you reaching out to us..."

I detest that kind of patronising 'corporate speak'! What the hell is wrong with using "contacting us"?

Post# 982775 , Reply# 51   2/14/2018 at 11:19 (247 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"Contacting us"

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Or whatever has long been out of favor it seems, at least on this side of the pond. Everyone "reaches out" these days.

You hear it on the news (we reached out to *** for a comment...."

At work "reach out to "X" at corporate and see what he knows...

And so it goes..

Of course not everyone is on board or happy, but there you are then.

Post# 982776 , Reply# 52   2/14/2018 at 11:28 (247 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"reaching out"...

rolls_rapide's profile picture
...makes me want to reach out and strangle 'em!

Post# 982780 , Reply# 53   2/14/2018 at 13:43 (247 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

and look at this - new on the shelves in Tesco ........

Fairy non bio stain remover powder

BUT look at the manufacturer - `Star brands of Redditch'!! (Who??? !)


Post# 982786 , Reply# 54   2/14/2018 at 14:25 (247 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Yes, the web page:
timed out for me, but the cached version says:

"FAIRY is a trademark of The Procter & Gamble Company,
Cincinnati, Ohio.

Used under license by Star Brands Ltd,
Dunlop Rd, Redditch,
B97 5XP"

Very odd indeed.

Post# 982787 , Reply# 55   2/14/2018 at 14:28 (247 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Star Brands - who make 'Star Drops' cleaner!

Post# 982788 , Reply# 56   2/14/2018 at 14:42 (247 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

Ah yes, of course. Good spot Rolls.

Star Drops being a product I have never used.... wasn't that the product which claimed to be a jack of all trades? I was traumatised at university by people using it to wash dishes, laundry, toilets, rags, animals, floors, bodies, cars......eek.

In terms of the Fairy - it also struck me that that container looks a bit like the store brand stain removers so perhaps they have the same origin.

I'm actually surprised that there is a market for Fairy non bio stain remover - the amount of variants of similar products we have now is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

Post# 982792 , Reply# 57   2/14/2018 at 14:54 (247 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Yes, I always thought of 'Star Drops' as an analogue of '1001'.

I think you could use the earlier 'glass bottle' versions of 1001 for, well, 1001 uses (dishes, carpets, paintwork, etc). That was back when it was a basic transparent liquid.

Post# 982794 , Reply# 58   2/14/2018 at 15:15 (247 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

People have not given up on buying an "all-in-one" like detergent and softener for example -- we have had multiple iterations of "Tide with a Touch of Downy" or "...Febreze"etc., after Solo and Bold were discontinued (multiple times it seems, every couple of years or so we'd see Bold back on the lower shelves of places like Market Basket/DeMoulas).

I would not put past those stubborn people at P&G to think that the failure with Bold 2-in-1 or whatever it was called, was not that it did not clean *or* soften as well as using two separate products, but that the scent was old or not strong enough.

Me, if my experience is of any indication, the vast majority of times I've seen anyone using Bold was when I was doing laundry in a laundromat or coin-ops in apartment buildings -- people who couldn't be bothered to stay around to dispense their softener would buy detergents like that.

The *other* demographics that buys such things is people like us, who will try any detergent we don't already know (including things that say "New and Improved"). But we usually buy a box/bottle, try it and stop if we don't like it.

The folks that keep buying stuff like Bold are the ones that feel like "they have no choice" because really, no matter what they do, the coin-ops machines have a very short cycle and they'll have to pretreat all stains anyway and they want some softness but not to baby-sit the washers.

Post# 982811 , Reply# 59   2/14/2018 at 17:04 (246 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        

@ Earthling177 - I'm one of the folks that kept purchasing Bold - but not because I didn't want to hang around to add fabric softener, or felt as though I didn't have a choice. I actually preferred its smell over "Tide with a touch of Downy". Plus, call me old-school, but I love seeing a ton of suds in my washer...and Bold always gave me a good deal of suds.

Post# 982816 , Reply# 60   2/14/2018 at 18:05 (246 days old) by ge1970 (Birmingham Alabama)        

I bought this Bold Tropical Orchard at my local Big Lots about two months ago. I find it almost indistinguishable from Gain Island Fresh power. Same scent, same color and cleans about the same.

Post# 982820 , Reply# 61   2/14/2018 at 18:29 (246 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        

@ge1970... i’m wondering if it might be repackaged Gain?

Post# 982823 , Reply# 62   2/14/2018 at 18:41 (246 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

I don't know if they are currently doing so, but P&G customer service used to be provided by Matrix Marketing, which is now called Convergys. I worked there at one time in the DirectTV dept. The CSR's can only provide the information that the customer (contracting company) gives to them. Sometimes the info is out of date or incomplete.

The Procter & Gamble Ivorydale complex is divided into 3 separate companies - P&G (Fabric & Home Care Inovation Center), St. Bernard Soap Co. (bar soap such as Ivory is made there), and the J.M. Smucker Co. (Crisco). For a time, P&G continued to distribute the Professional Crisco products, but that is now done by Cargill.

For a period of about 10 years starting in 1957, the Clorox Co. was owned by P&G. It had to be split off due to an anti-trust lawsuit. However, P&G currently distributes the Professional Clorox as part of it's commercial laundry product line.

Post# 982858 , Reply# 63   2/14/2018 at 20:25 (246 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Ivorydale is but a shell of its former self:

While we're on the subject:

Post# 982870 , Reply# 64   2/14/2018 at 22:19 (246 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
@ CircleW

Interesting that you'd mention this, as Conversys also handles the customer service calls for Xerox benefits in NJ, amongst other companies.

Has this been the case for a while? I remember calling P&G customer support when I was in high school, as I needed info for a science project (circa 1994 or 1995). The folks were terribly nice, and extremely knowledgeable. While the folks were certainly pleasant now, they do not seem knowlegeable about their products *at all* (I've had to call them for other things besides detergent), and in the case of my call regarding Bold, it sounded as though they were reading info directly from Wikipedia...

Post# 982876 , Reply# 65   2/14/2018 at 23:15 (246 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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1994 might as well be 1904 in ways that companies have changed since.

Nearly all large consumer enterprises have some version of outsourcing of customer service today. Banks, credit cards, consumer goods, etc.... Cannot tell you the last time have reached say a customer service rep from Amex that wasn't in India or some east Asian country.

This, and or thanks to technology everything is routed to one or a few local call centers, or the quickly growing ranks of reps that work from home. The latter can be employed directly by the company or again from an outsourced agency.

Post# 982882 , Reply# 66   2/15/2018 at 01:12 (246 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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I just put a medium size load of whites in the Affinity with about half of a large scoop (pictured above) of this Bold.


I'm pleased to report low suds levels like I haven't seen for years from a powder!   That amount of Gain or Tide powder "for both" would have nearly obscured the window with suds.   I'm going to get more of this stuff, as I prefer powder to liquids.   The scent is pleasant enough.


I have to wonder if this is old or otherwise leftover stuff from before the "for both" formula, or if P&G actually got enough complaints about oversudsing that they made some changes.   The latter scenario strikes me as unlikely, so I'm going to stock up while this Bold is still available.

Post# 982885 , Reply# 67   2/15/2018 at 03:17 (246 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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I still think the Bold above is a detergent made in USA and imported in Canada.
Nothing to do with the UK Bold (or Dash in France, Bolt in Italy, Lenor detergent in Germany etc. etc.)

But it's easy to verify. Just compare the two pictures of the UK Bold powder and your Bold.
Have someone of you guys from UK an opened box of Bold?

Post# 982887 , Reply# 68   2/15/2018 at 03:22 (246 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

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The Italian Ace detergent and bleach products are also no longer P&G products.

They are Fater products.

Post# 982889 , Reply# 69   2/15/2018 at 03:43 (246 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        
Maybe something is going on with Procter & Gamble Europe...

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Also Gama, another recognisable detergent brand of P&G France (once a brand of Colgate Palmolive, wich was acquired by P&G in 2003) is no longer a P&G brand.

Now is Blue Sun

And maybe Ariel detergent will be one day another brand to become part of another owner (in some parts of Europe). Now Blue Sun got a licence and manufactures it, but it seems that one day it will become A+ ....

Post# 982895 , Reply# 70   2/15/2018 at 06:19 (246 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

Hmm--I thought Ariel was one of their "killer" brands...seems odd that they'd license it within a core region.

Post# 982907 , Reply# 71   2/15/2018 at 08:21 (246 days old) by dixan (Europe)        
Maybe something is going on with Procter & Gamble Europe...

Most definitely.
First of all, Eastern European Tide/Vizir is discontinued (finally, after long and painful agony).
Second of all, Bonux was sold to Dalli-Werke. Strange, it was successful brand here in Eastern Europe.
Third of all, Dash (except Italy), also sold to Dalli.

Here is the source.


Post# 982916 , Reply# 72   2/15/2018 at 09:36 (246 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        

Now, that's interesting. I knew P&G still made Dash in other countries (as well as Ace), and I was even trying to figure out how to order some, and have it shipped to the states. However, if it's now a private label product, I'm not sure I want to order it. I doubt the fragrance will be the same, and most private label companies simply do not produce a detergent that can clean as well as a P&G product....see Huish/Sun, which I believe are now part of Henkel.

Post# 982923 , Reply# 73   2/15/2018 at 11:54 (246 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

They produce everything to a price and to a formula.

For example, I would definitely rate Miele's private label stuff as extremely good and it's produced by a two private label makers. I wouldn't say that their twin-dos detergent is phenomenal, but it's a very definite TOL detergent and does the job as well as anything I've ever used and I prefer the scent of it to most detergents in this market.

Miele's wool/silks/delicates liquid is probably the best I've ever used.

In terms of fragrances in this market and my perception:

Ariel Powder - Overpowering sort of citrus/pine hard to define scent. Not a fan.
Ariel Liquid - Also overpowering.
Ariel Pods - Quite nice scent, completely different to the other two products.

Persil (Unilever) small and mighty bio : smells nice - non-floral, uplifting kind of scent.
Persil (unilever) small and mighty non bio : Smells like hair shampoo. Quite nice though.

Bold (all versions) - Not my cup of tea at all. I don't really want to smell like vanilla pods and diamonds or whatever it is they're pushing at the moment.

Surf : All rather overpowering except the herbal one and they don't clean all that well.

Post# 982932 , Reply# 74   2/15/2018 at 14:32 (246 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Could all this weirdness at P&G Europe, be to do with circumventing some kind of EU Tax laws?

Maybe P&G are tying up some loose ends before Doomsday happens.

Post# 982943 , Reply# 75   2/15/2018 at 16:20 (246 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        
@ iej..

Is “Surf” still a Unilever product where you live? In the states, they sold their detergent portfolio to Huish (which became Sun Products, which is now part of Henkel). When Huish/Sun took over the US portfolio (Sun, Wisk, All, Sunlight, and Surf), the detergents were reformulated, and all had that stereotypical “store brand” (read: cheap perfume) smell. The quality of their cleaning also went to hell.

I’ve tried most all of the Ariel varieties, save for “Alpine Fresh” and “Purple Flowers”. I’d love to give Dash and Ace a shot...but again, not sure what they’re like now, since P&G seems to be pushing them off.

Post# 982954 , Reply# 76   2/15/2018 at 18:14 (245 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

gorenje's profile picture
@ dixan

Thank you. Very interesting information this about Dash and Bonux brands.

But this refers only for Dash in Germany, Austria and Switzerland ("Demnach hat die Dalli-Gruppe für „Dash“ die Markenrechte für Deutschland, Österreich und die Schweiz erworben")

In Italy, Belgium and France Dash will remains P&G.

@ Steve

Dalli-Werke is an old German factory with a great tradition. It is not a simple private label. Their products are very good.

The majority of Miele detergents mentioned also by James (iej) are made by Dalli-Werke.

If you will have the opportunity to try the Italian Dash you will see for yourself it is a very good detergent, but I'm sure the Dash made by Dalli-Werke will be also a very good product. Definitively not just a simple private label.

Post# 982955 , Reply# 77   2/15/2018 at 18:31 (245 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        
Sold on Bold!

rp2813's profile picture

I'm very pleased with the results from the load of whites I referenced above.  Stain removal was excellent and suds were low, just like they used to be with all HE powders.


I hope they keep making this stuff and that they don't turn it into a moving target by periodically packaging it under different retired P&G brand names.

Post# 982968 , Reply# 78   2/15/2018 at 21:02 (245 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

@Steve_B79 Surf here is a Unilever product.

P&G UK / IE Bold:

Post# 982969 , Reply# 79   2/15/2018 at 21:05 (245 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

If you want to have a browse through the typical detergents available here - This is a link to the detergents section at SuperValu Ireland (nothing to do with the US store of a similar name).

Post# 982975 , Reply# 80   2/15/2018 at 22:43 (245 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Too many similarities

launderess's profile picture
That's my story and am sticking to it! *LOL*

I've said to much, so I'll say no more.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 982982 , Reply# 81   2/16/2018 at 01:30 (245 days old) by dixan (Europe)        

I mentioned Italy, but I forgot about France and Benelux. :)

Dalli Werke's private label products are great for their price. However, their own brands are far away from perfection. Their Dalli powders are mediocre. I guess this will be the case with Dalli's Dash and Bonux.
We have to wait before we try their production. We have plenty of P&G Bonux here. They try so hard to get rid of it. They sell it for 1.50 euro/20 washes but no one buys it.

Post# 982983 , Reply# 82   2/16/2018 at 05:07 (245 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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P&G`s Dash (same as UK Daz ?) sold in Germany has been a BOL detergent for a long time that doesn`t clean anything. The brand is apparently only still alive because it once had a good reputation in the past and because it still has a pleasant smell. High quality scent oils are expensive and that seems to be the part where store brand manufacturers save expenses.
Looks like most consumers (and consumer magazines) figured out that store brands made by McBride and in particular Dalli otherwise outperform the multinational`s second tier rubbish.

It`s not a new thing that well known brands get sold if they don`t generate enough profit anymore.
Unilever`s laundry branch in the USA, Colgate`s in Australia, in Germany we already have Rei (UK Dreft ?) and Sanso both former P&G brands as well as Unilever`s Sunil and Kuschelweich (UK Comfort ?) gone to Fit GmbH.
The products I think have all been reformulated and very little to do with the "originals" except for big box (unconcentrated) Sunil powders which are still manufactured under licence of Unilever according to Wikipedia.

Will be interesting to see what Dalli is making out of Dash in the future. I could imagine they make it a decent performing detergent again but will probably ruin the scent. I also never understood why they use inferior formulars for their own Dalli branded line compared to the remarkable high quality of Dalli made store brands. But then Germans and maybe other Europeans as well seem to have higher expectations in Aldi or Lidl products than in small insignificant national brands.

Post# 982985 , Reply# 83   2/16/2018 at 05:39 (245 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
"I also never understood why they use inferior formulas for their own Dalli branded line compared to the remarkable high quality of Dalli made store brands."

It's funny you should say that, as I was recently looking at Dalli's own 'product info' pages. I was struck by how basic their own detergents were (two enzymes), compared to the likes of Lidl's with six enzymes.

Maybe by offering their own basic (poor) detergents is a strategy to keep Lidl 'on side', and not upset them.

Post# 982989 , Reply# 84   2/16/2018 at 07:20 (245 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Maybe there is a 'transition period' where Blue Sun manufacturers 'Ariel' for P&G, under the label 'Ariel - introducing A+'

Possibly, Blue Sun are allowed to use the Ariel name for a short period of time, after which it will be known as 'A+', with P&G retaining the 'Ariel' name.

Perhaps P&G's profits have taken a sharp dip in some countries, and they just want to offload some dead weight.

Look at this (from Blue Sun):

A brand that guarantees innovation and maximum effectiveness in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland and Portugal.

*Brand is temporarily licensed by Procter&Gamble in Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Norway & Finland."

Post# 982994 , Reply# 85   2/16/2018 at 08:49 (245 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
Interesting that you'd mention Aldi/Lidl store brands...

...because here in the US, we have both Aldi and Lidl (the latter having just come over in mid '17). Aldi's detergent products are produced by Huish/Sun products (garbage). Lidl, I believe, sources theirs from Henkel. From what I understand, the products sold outside of the USA (Formil, Almat) are superior in every way, from cleaning performance to fragrance. With that said, here's a stupid either of these products ever pop up on eBay - or another website that does international shipping? Amazon UK has some stuff I'd love to try, but they will not ship to the US.

Post# 983015 , Reply# 86   2/16/2018 at 12:01 (245 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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I've never seen any of Lidl's stuff on Ebay.

As an aside, I was in Poundstretcher earlier today and bought 'Vim Cream Cleaner' - made by Henkel.

'Vim' has gone from Unilever, to Guaber, to Henkel now, it seems, in some markets.

Probably similar to the carve-up of Henkel Persil vs Unilever Persil.

It seems to be destined for the UK market. Address is for Redhill (Surrey?). Irish address is 'Punch Industries Ltd, Dublin'.

13 digit barcode starts: 800...


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Post# 983039 , Reply# 87   2/16/2018 at 16:22 (245 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        
@ Rolls_rapide

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Yes it make sense your reasoning. It could be so.

Post# 983104 , Reply# 88   2/17/2018 at 06:38 (244 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Main link below, gives a brief indication of the history.

And the EAN 13 digit barcode for 'Vim', starting '800', seems to indicate Italy as the country of origin.

Meanwhile, whilst perusing Tesco's shelves last evening, I came across a new bottle of 'Finish Gel' for the dishwasher. They've shrunk the size from a 1 litre old-style yellow bottle, to a smaller size, shown below. The internet says it is a 650 ml size, but Tesco is selling a 700 ml version. Still no bleach in the formulation.


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Post# 983107 , Reply# 89   2/17/2018 at 07:11 (244 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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When in Tesco last night, I had a look at 'Ace' bleach. Absolutely no mention of P&G. The ingredients list had a brief mention of 'Fater'.

I spied the 'Fairy Stain Remover' too. It seems odd that P&G would licence such a product to a separate company. Perhaps they're using a third party just to test the market, thus saving on expensive production restructuring costs. Though you would think that, in the first place, a decent powder wouldn't need such booster additives.


Post# 983116 , Reply# 90   2/17/2018 at 08:45 (244 days old) by liamy1 (-)        

Is one of P&Gs billion dollar brands (of which they only have 20). The would never give that name to someone else.

P&G also likes to tout that it's the worlds number 1 selling detergent (don’t know if true), but in nearly every market Ariel appears appears (save USA) it is a top line product (and you can tell).

Don’t know if it is the same with the liquids and powders, but UK Daz pods are Tide (or Vizir) elsewhere in Europe.

But Daz has just been refomulated (along with every other PG U.K. detergent it would seem) and is now called Daz 3in1 so don’t know if this is the case anymore.

Post# 983120 , Reply# 91   2/17/2018 at 08:55 (244 days old) by liamy1 (-)        

Just seen your post Rolls.

Will change that to they *should never

Post# 983172 , Reply# 92   2/17/2018 at 17:49 (243 days old) by iej (Ireland)        


Punch Industries is Henkel Ireland. They were bought by the Spotless Group in France largely to get their "colour catcher" products and shortly afterwards Spotless was acquired by Henkel.

Some of their products like their ceramic hob cleaner was replaced with a Henkel one under the old branding but its a totally different bottle and product.

Post# 983358 , Reply# 93   2/19/2018 at 08:34 (242 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        
@ liamy

I’m thinking that P&G’s pods are pretty much all the same, save for the fragrance. I love the scent of Ariel pods; Tide, not as much. I’m curious as to the fragrance of Daz. The powder has a great scent...

Post# 983368 , Reply# 94   2/19/2018 at 09:36 (242 days old) by liamy1 (-)        

Yes I think they are all the same, save for the scent.

From what I remember the Daz pods have a nice scent, it’s not a floral, just a “detergent” type smell.

I’ve always found the Daz pods smell similar to the Fairy ones (even though Fairy powder/liquids dont smell like Daz powder/liquids) but it’s the same with Ariel pods, they don’t smell like the Ariel powder/liquids.

I think P&G pick separate scents for pods and just happened to pick a similar one for Daz and Fairy. But I have not tried the reformulated ones so don’t know the scent.

Post# 983373 , Reply# 95   2/19/2018 at 09:44 (242 days old) by liamy1 (-)        


Forgot to say, if you were ever wanting to try Daz pods (or whatever) and you can’t get it on places like eBay/online, I can price check what it would cost to ship to you.

Any excuse to go detergent shopping :)

Post# 983617 , Reply# 96   2/20/2018 at 17:11 (240 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
@ liamy1

That would be awesome!! Thank you!!! I know that Daz liquid is up there, among a few others, but I'd have to limit it...haha.

Post# 983630 , Reply# 97   2/20/2018 at 19:33 (240 days old) by liamy1 (-)        

I know the feeling. I’m terrible for buying it (even got 2 today :/).

Whenever you want/ready , just let me know (either here or email, click my name and should show address) and I can get you a price for the product and shipping.

I can go to a many number of stores to get the lowest price for the product, but if you want to look at what we have (if you haven’t already) best place to look is our major supermarkets websites, either Sainsbury’s, Tesco, ASDA or Morrison’s.

Post# 983681 , Reply# 98   2/21/2018 at 06:28 (240 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
@ liamy1

I almost feel strange for admitting this, but I have not purchased a "US-Made" detergent, since I stumbled across Ariel Power Liquid over a year ago in a Hispanic supermarket. I've been hooked on the imported stuff since then, either purchasing that, ordering what I could from Amazon (there isn't much, I must US folk are blocked from ordering from the UK site, and what IS available from the UK on the US site, has been marked up ten times over), or visiting some "junk" stores, where I managed to score Mexican Persil (WAY different than the US stuff), and Indian Ariel powder (some of the best smelling stuff on this planet).

I've noticed that there's something in the UK called "Persil Power Gems"? Or something to that effect? The container looks tiny, the grains look like fish food, and I'm curious about them. Are they any good?

Post# 983700 , Reply# 99   2/21/2018 at 10:59 (240 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Persil Powergems

rolls_rapide's profile picture
They are a Unilever product.

They have apparently been designed and produced without water in the mixture.

None of the variants has any oxygen bleach in the formulations.

I haven't personally used them, but the folk who have, said that they tended to get stuck in the folds of the door seal.

They take a long time to dissolve.

Some others objected to the fragrance (too strong).

I consider them to be an exercise in design vanity; of form over function.

A Which? test seemed to show a better result though.


Post# 983705 , Reply# 100   2/21/2018 at 12:03 (240 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)        
The plot thickens...

P&G (finally) got back to me. Here is their response:

“Our team was able to look into this for you, Steve. We hate to be the bearer of bad news however, Bold is not being reintroduced in the US. We hope this information helps and if you have anymore questions please let us know...”

Obviously, I was not satisfied with their answer. If anything, it leaves more questions. Which I have responded to them with.

We shall see what happens…

Post# 983708 , Reply# 101   2/21/2018 at 12:59 (240 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
And now, P&G is starting to honk me off....

Their response...

"We certainly understand your frustration, Steve. However, because this is not a U.S. product we don't have any further information. We may suggest reaching out to Big Lots for further help."

My response...

Unfortunately, I'm not buying that explanation, and here's why...

1: The phone number on the side of the package, is to your US detergent HQ (the Tide Helpline). If this were NOT a US product, there would be a different contact number on the side.

2: The product marketed overseas, is called "Bold 2 in 1". This one is simply marketed as "Bold", with no mention of a softener.

3: The UPC code is a US product code.

4: "Tropical Orchard" isn't even a scent marketed overseas. The closest in comparison to the UK version - which shares the same box image - is "Sparkling Bloom and Yellow Poppy".

This really isn't a case for Big Lots, as they wouldn't know anything about this. Someone higher up has to have an answer about this. If you cannot help me, who can?

And now, we wait.

Post# 983760 , Reply# 102   2/21/2018 at 19:15 (239 days old) by liamy1 (-)        



They’re a relatively new product (amount 6 months old if memory serves).

You’re right, they come in a small(ish) bottle depending on load size (they do between 12 and 30 washes). They do look a bit like fish pellets :&, the closest thing they resemble in look and use of them is the Lenor/Downy unstoppables but a detergent, not a scent additive,

Unlike Rolls, I have used them (when they launched I bought 2 each of the bio and the non bio ones) but what he says is correct:

Even though they are positioned as a convenient product in a “dry” detergent format (the blissfully ignorant masses would assume it is a variant of powder detergent) unlike powders, they don’t contain oxygen bleach.

They do smell very nice, but as Rolls said, this can be offensive to some.

They are a NIGHTMARE to dissolve, quite often can be seen undissolved in the door boot/glass for most of the wash, but luckily unlike some reviews, I haven’t removed any clothes at the end of the wash with them undissolved on.

I actually used most of them on none laundry tasks, I used a bottle to line the bottom of the kitchen trash can under the trash bag, made the bin smell nice.

A lot went in the mop bucket to clean floors, this comfirmed just how long they take to dissolve.

The rest got binned, as they very easy to spill, and as I have a Chihuahua who will pick anything up he comes across, I couldn’t take the risk of him ingesting them (even though I clean them up immediately, he is quick).

So they’re ok, but I agree they strike me more of a fad, and whilst I could be wrong, I don’t think they’re going to last all that long. We already have powders, liquids, gels and pods so can’t see the need for a 5th variant. And despite the manufacturers best efforts, powder detergent is still the most popular selling format in the U.K.

As Rolls mentioned on another thread, Tesco (UKs biggest supermarket) was late to the party in stocking them and in his local Tesco they have just as quickly stopped selling them (I will check mine when I’m next in for curiosity).

Post# 983761 , Reply# 103   2/21/2018 at 19:16 (239 days old) by liamy1 (-)        

Hope you get somewhere with P&G, doesn’t instill much faith if the maker doesn’t know nada about their products,

Post# 983763 , Reply# 104   2/21/2018 at 19:25 (239 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Oh just remembered,

We have powder tablets too (mainly off brands now though), so including the Powergems, that’s 6 formats of detergent.

We’ll see if the Powergems last.

Post# 983770 , Reply# 105   2/21/2018 at 21:37 (239 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Bringing This Back On Home

launderess's profile picture
Answer supplied by P&G customer service is a reasonable one; if OP truly is dying to know more information about this product reach out to Big Lots and find out who is the importer. Big Lots or any other store selling this "Tropical Orchard" version of Bold obviously at this point probably know more than P&G customer service for USA.

Proctor and Gamble who normally spare no expense and or miss an opportunity to advertise or market a new product has nothing out there on this version of Bold. That alone should tell you something. At this point (no offence meant) am guessing person or persons at that P&G customer service department have a bad name for those responsible for putting their information on those packets of Bold.

Such persons can only supply information released to them; and it is quite apparent by now P&G either did not or will not be supplying.

Whoever purchased this detergent for Big Lots or whatever store must have a contact; that should be the focus of your attention IMHO.

In many companies today, especially large multi-national conglomerates information is provided and or can be accessed on a NTKB (Need To Know Basis). If one is in a division or department that has nothing to do with *something* often one cannot even access information on computer. That and or am blocked/locked out.

Back in the old days one could just make a telephone call to a friend or someone in another department and try to pick up the scent. That chain today has largely been broken by outsourcing, international deals/divisions and so forth.

However it the backstory on this product truly is keeping you up at night; you'll likely have to spend some of your own money and call P&G corporate headquarters and start working up a chain.

This Bold detergent didn't just materialize out of thin air; and no one in their right mind would attempt to "bootleg" and or otherwise infringe on P&G trademarks.

Have given links above to the trademark information; contact that company and see if they will give client information.

Post# 983772 , Reply# 106   2/21/2018 at 22:12 (239 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
It might just very well be this Bold "Tropical Orchard" is some type of grey goods not unlike the various Asian varieties of Tide you see on eBay and elsewhere.

*If* P&G had a surplus of say that Bold powder lying about spare in UK or elsewhere, it wouldn't cost much to create a slightly altered package based upon original along with other minor changes, fill it with product then ship it abroad.

Fact that only discount and not high end or even other normal stores are selling this Bold tells one at least it isn't being marketed widely. But rather to a targeted distribution chain.

P&G already *dumps* old and or discontinued at certain warehouse/discount chains like Nationwide Warehouse. That is one outlet for "old stock" that is removed from store shelves but you never see say thrown away in rubbish. When P&G changed formulas for Cascade to remove phosphates a good amount of old store stock, stuff lying about in warehouses/distribution chains and so forth was sent to such discount type stores.

Post# 983795 , Reply# 107   2/22/2018 at 03:04 (239 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
And then...

I saw this last year where P&G was trying to say those same 5gal buckets were fake :;

Think it’s just to be expected that you’ll never get a straight answer from P&G.

Post# 983801 , Reply# 108   2/22/2018 at 04:11 (239 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
I think if it really was a counterfeit P&G would have responded differently, so we can rule that one out, but still it was a possible option out of many others.

As to "no one in their right mind would attempt to "bootleg" and or otherwise infringe on P&G trademarks" I wouldn`t say so.
Apparently some Asian countries seem to have a very relaxed perception of western patents and copyrights. For example perfectly faked Viagra has been found in European pharmacies. Wouldn`t you think no one in their right mind would attempt to infringe on Pfizer trademarks ?

Next thing we can pretty much rule out would be the UK as a country of origin. Europeans simply wouldn`t go so low to produce a heavy duty detergent that lacks of nonionic surfactants. They are important for keeping synthetic fibers immaculate. On the other hand you never know what they have in mind if a product is made for export only.

What I don`t understand at all is how can it be a P&G product being sold in the USA and P&G headquarter not knowing anything about it. What if someone suffers a serious allergic reaction from the product ? They couldn`t seriously send you to Biglots, could they ?
Shouldn`t at least poison control centers, the manufacturer and anyone else have access to MSDSs in every country where a product is possibly sold ?

Post# 983803 , Reply# 109   2/22/2018 at 04:30 (239 days old) by liberatordeluxe (Chelmsford, United Kingdom)        

I used to like the fragrance of Bold2in1 in the 1990s. Smelt soapy but not over powering like some of the current ghastly perfumes.

Post# 983805 , Reply# 110   2/22/2018 at 05:32 (239 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
To be fair

launderess's profile picture
No one ever said P&G officially didn't know about this stuff; that was the response given by customer service/call center. What we also don't know is how far up the food chain the OP's request for information went before being kicked back.

For all we know the "team" may have gone no further than their own immediate superior who either couldn't find anything in system (or bits he/she has access to). This and or it is a bit of "why does this person want this information? tell him we don't know anything else and to push off...."*LOL*

Shall say it again, and mean it; obviously reaching out to "Tide customer service" is not going to produce results. P&G corporate headquarters is where people ought to go. Someone authorized creation of trademark for that "Bold" and the "Tropical Orchard" for a start.

Post# 983813 , Reply# 111   2/22/2018 at 07:44 (239 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Reply #107 ABC video

rolls_rapide's profile picture
At 3:35 in that video, the P&G rep says: "We don't sell products in 5 gallon buckets, to the public."

In that case, the inference is that they must sell similar packages to commercial and professional customers!

Regarding Steve_b79's ongoing saga with P&G: It's possible that one arm of P&G hasn't a clue as to what the other arm is doing. And customer service desk personnel generally seem to be the last to know anything, in my experience.

As Launderess says, try further up the corporate chain.

From the Daily Mirror, 2007/updated 2012:

"In 2005 United Wholesale Grocers, one of Scotland's biggest cash-and-carry outlets, was fined £1,500 for supplying fake Bold washing powder.

The company, which bought the consignment for £12,000 in good faith, only discovered they had been duped when a customer complained the powder didn't wash clothes properly - and that the address of its makers Proctor & Gamble in Weybridge was spelt Waybridge."


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Post# 983829 , Reply# 112   2/22/2018 at 10:33 (239 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
A LONG reply....

So...I got another response from P&G:

"..Thanks for following up, Steve. We did reach out to someone internally on our team and can confirm that we have not reintroduced this into the US market. There should be a production code imprinted onto the bottom of that box, if you could send that to us, it may help us look into this further..."

I've sent them the production code. Let's see what happens!

@ Laundress: That was an eye-opening link you posted, in regards to the Vietnamese Tide. Especially since one of our closeout stores was selling it for $19 a pail, and I almost purchased it. At the end, I went for Mexican Persil...haha.

@ Liamy1: I'm going to take a look at the video in a moment. This stuff always intrigues me.

@ Rolls: The fact that they spelled the town's name incorrectly is kind of funny. Almost makes me wonder if "Big Lots!" is selling bootlegged Bold...although, the UPC code did verify in their system...

Post# 983843 , Reply# 113   2/22/2018 at 11:39 (239 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
The suspense is killing me...

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I'm dying to find out what P&G's reply will be.

Someone, somewhere within P&G's structure must know something about it.

Post# 983882 , Reply# 114   2/22/2018 at 17:48 (238 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
The suspense is killing me....

Me too!!

I do find it really interesting that a company who prides themselves on their brands (used 4 billion times a day apparently) has no idea what’s going on with one of them.

Hopefully not too long to wait :)

@Rolls, I remember that box, as someone who was brought up on Bold (Grandmother and Mother swore by it), wonder if we ever had a bootleg :-D

Post# 983883 , Reply# 115   2/22/2018 at 17:51 (238 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Oh and @Rolls

Yes, P&G do sell pails of detergent to professional customers (see link).

If memory serves, there’s a few videos on YT regarding it.


Post# 983886 , Reply# 116   2/22/2018 at 17:57 (238 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Here we are

A few below (more on there if anyone interested)

Post# 983942 , Reply# 117   2/23/2018 at 05:59 (238 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I don't know about Bold being a bootleg, but I have a vague memory of decades ago - maybe the 2000's - the news carried an article about a dodgy detergent being recalled.

I can't be certain that it was a Lever brand, but it seemed to be sold via Cash & Carry wholesalers. It wasn't Persil, Surf or Radion, but something else. I think it had the word 'Blue' in it.

Anyway, folk using it for handwashing articles in the sink, discovered it burned their hands. It turns out that the powder in the boxes was dishwasher detergent.

Whether it was a bootleg copy or a genuine production fault, I do not know.

Post# 984009 , Reply# 118   2/23/2018 at 16:32 (238 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Could be...

Either, as unfortunately, I have seen of genuine products causing skin reactions on a large scale.

I remember Watchdog doing an anniversary episode of the one they did about when Fairy liquid lemon WUL being introduced and apparently was recalled due to some pretty heavy skin reactions in a large amount of people .

Post# 984115 , Reply# 119   2/24/2018 at 07:48 (237 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Discontiuned Bold USA

launderess's profile picture
P&G has been selling off, and or shutting down brands for about ten years (give or take), not always because of performance.

Proctor and Gamble like nearly every other major company in USA or world has gone "lean", Sigma-Six or whatever the current slimming down corporate craze happens to be.

For P&G, Unilever, and the rest many of their household, personal care and other product lines are mature markets. Worse consumers have gotten wise to "new and improved" and all the other tricks of trade that are meant to entice them into buying this or that.

P&G's CEO has been under pressure since arrival to get stock price up, and show Wall Street he means business.

When you get down to it P&G has two top selling detergents; Tide and Gain. Together those brands have a vast and bewildering array of variants. The technology (and patents) that gave us Bold 2in1 were improved and voila! You have Tide with a Touch of Donwy, or Ariel with a Touch of Lenor. Thus P&G really didn't need to have Bold Plus hanging about. Less so after Tide Simply Clean and Fresh took up the "low price/budget" end of the spectrum. That product also meant ERA could go as well, and it did.

You may have noticed both P&G and Unilever are focusing on a handful of laundry product brands. However within each of those brands there is a wide range of products that are meant to address particular needs.

In Europe Bold seems to be P&G's detergent for "scent"; here we have Gain for that niche.

All this being said one has to wonder what truly is going on with Bold Plus: there seems to be tons of it out there on, eBay and elsewhere. It all cannot be old stock from several years ago.

Post# 984119 , Reply# 120   2/24/2018 at 07:53 (237 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Here is something else

launderess's profile picture
UPC/Bar Code beginning with 0037000 is usually a P&G product. Bold Ultra Plus began with same numbers:

No information is available for bar code shown on packet above; but it *is* registered in USA.

So again I say; if the bar code in part is one that is assigned or whatever to P&G it is very likely they are behind this mystery Bold "Tropical Orchard" detergent.

Remember those UPC/Bar codes are on crates, packaging and or other materials associated with items. Scanning or entering into various systems including check-out counter at shops provides a wealth of information. Bar codes are also used for inventory (to keep track of sales for instance).

Another thing:

Someone upthread mentioned there wouldn't be a powder detergent in Europe without nonionic surfactants. This is not apparently true.

The SDS for Bold "Professional" in Spring Fresh scent has an ingredient list almost identical to the product OP is investigating. All anionic surfactants without a mention of anything else in that category. That is of course unless P&G for some reason chose not to list, but is that even legal in EU?

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Post# 984132 , Reply# 121   2/24/2018 at 10:28 (237 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        

P&G emailed me back - again. They think this product is from 2007, which makes no sense, with a 2017 copyright date on the package.

I advised them as such. Let's see what happens.

Post# 984134 , Reply# 122   2/24/2018 at 10:30 (237 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        
@ Laundress

You mention that Era was discontinued. Yet, it's still showing up on P&G's website, and I see it for sale at just about every supermarket and big box retailer that I visit. Did this happen recently?

Post# 984140 , Reply# 123   2/24/2018 at 11:35 (237 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
That screenshot of an MSDS is strange indeed.
I wonder why are anionic surfactants listed twice in a row but in different percentages ? Might be just a typo.
It`s also strange there is no further information about what hazardous anionic surfactants they refer to. (e.g. Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate)
Or is it even possible that some nonionic surfactants are not considered hazardous so do not have to be listed in an MSDS ? I don`t know.

However current UK professional Bold 2 in 1 still has the nonionics listed as less than 5%


Post# 984153 , Reply# 124   2/24/2018 at 14:09 (237 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"They think this product is from 2007..."

rolls_rapide's profile picture
As you said, the packaging says otherwise.

There must be a right bunch of numpties working at Procter & Gamble.

Post# 984165 , Reply# 125   2/24/2018 at 18:23 (236 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Era detergent

launderess's profile picture
Could have sworn read something back in 2014 that said Era detergent was getting the chop from P&G. Haven't seen it in our neck of the woods in ages. But if others are still getting it, then guess was wrong.

Post# 984166 , Reply# 126   2/24/2018 at 18:25 (236 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
anionic surfactants listed twice in a row ....

launderess's profile picture
Probably because there were two different surfactants, but then again who knows. Many SDS are rather cryptic and provide enough information to meet letter of the law, but not give away "trade secrets".

Post# 984657 , Reply# 127   2/28/2018 at 07:53 (233 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)        

...I've heard nothing further from them. Such is life, no?

Until then, I will continue to enjoy my Bold, and will hopefully come across another oddball detergent or two (or three)....

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