Thread Number: 74803  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
Surf powergems
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Post# 986184   3/11/2018 at 17:11 (193 days old) by Michael (London /England)        

Are lever bros on a self destruction course??
I spied today ..SURF POWERGEMS!!..The persil variety has turned into a farce with supermarkets virtually giving them away, so why on earth would they launch them under the surf brand...The darn things don't dissolve and certainly don't clean..i feel a Persil power moment coming on...





Post# 986193 , Reply# 1   3/11/2018 at 18:20 (193 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)        

lol I was surprised to see a for colours version and ofc the surf versions

Post# 986214 , Reply# 2   3/11/2018 at 20:40 (193 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"SURF POWERGEMS!!"

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Dear God... design vanity is once again steering the good ship 'Unilever' towards a looming iceberg.

It'll all end in tears.

Meanwhile, here is a another Persil variant...


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Post# 986216 , Reply# 3   3/11/2018 at 21:05 (193 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Here is an example of the residue (courtesy of Twitter)

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Post# 986422 , Reply# 4   3/13/2018 at 12:53 (191 days old) by Liberatordeluxe (Chelmsford, United Kingdom)        

Do you think the reason they dont dissolve is because modern washing machines dont use as much water? Could be why they dont dissolve.

Post# 986428 , Reply# 5   3/13/2018 at 14:10 (191 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        
To be fair

launderess's profile picture
Quite a lot of R&D and other funds/effort went into developing those "power gems", and thus Unilever needs to make back their money some how.

P&G, Henkel, Unilever and so forth all have for some time now moved technology down the line from their TOL offerings (Tide, Persil, etc..) to middle or even lower tier. Just seems Unilever is pushing things down a bit faster with the obvious not so great sales of Persil Power Gems.

As to the dissolving issue; someone may be onto something there...

A vast array of modern laundry products simply do not work well in my AEG/Oko-Lavamat because of low wash water levels. Ariel gel when used in the dosing cap comes to mind. Next would be most pod type of products which if contain any sort of powder take some time to fully dissolve and or otherwise are messy. Pure liquid content seems to be fine.


Post# 986440 , Reply# 6   3/13/2018 at 16:25 (191 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Iím such...

A sucker, why do I do it to myself?

I picked some up today - the Violet Blossom ones, although I really didnít like the Persil ones.

They were on offer (theyíd have to be) so there you go.

Iíd actually really gone to get the new Daz ďbed of rosesĒ powder, but alas, it wasnít on the shelves in my local Morrisonís.

On a side note, unlike the Persil gems, the Surf ones donít smell that nice in the bottle at all (I didnít smell them at the store), the first thing to mind was toilet cleaner.

Iím hoping the smell fares better in the machine.


Post# 986444 , Reply# 7   3/13/2018 at 17:00 (191 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
" Daz ďbed of rosesĒ powder,"

rolls_rapide's profile picture
What?! Another variant? Probably smells like Turkish Delight - full of Eastern promise - but delivering little.

Less than 5% oxygen bleach too, whereas Ariel has 15-30%.


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Post# 986451 , Reply# 8   3/13/2018 at 17:55 (191 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
I know,,

It was actually looking up the Persil colour Powergems I came across the Daz (only seemingly sold by Morrisonís and Ocado at present). I am intrigued as to what it smells like.

Suppose with the *very* low bleach content (probably why they can aim it at colours too) it is definitely going to be nigh on useless for bleachable stains (tea, coffee, curry etc), so Vanish will be on the back lines.

Mind, Daz was overdue a fragrance variant as, and correct if me Iím wrong, but I think citrus blast has gone, and of course the long gone summer flower power and violet blossom blast (Iím sure ther was a lime one too at one point).

So bed of roses, is no doubt another stab at Surfís share of the lower priced (and grade) fragrance detergent market, as with Bold that is actually a costly detergent (at some points of the year (week for week) it is more costly than Ariel, but as it was once the UKs 2nd best selling detergent brand, I suppose it can afford to be.


Post# 986456 , Reply# 9   3/13/2018 at 18:10 (191 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Oh another...

Point to note, whilst speaking of dissolution of the gems, I wonder if Unilever have taken on some feedback from Persil as the Surf gems donít look as ďheavyĒ in the bottle (they seem ďlighterĒ and not as thick).

Only other thing I can think of causing the problems with regards dissolving of the gems, is how Unilever actually have the user dose them (in case anyone isnít aware, you pour the necessary amount in to the cap and place the cap on top of the wash load, just like you do with liquids).

Suppose if they were dosed like the unstoppables, as in you measure in cap then toss in the drum before adding laundry, they may be more effective at dissolving?

Maybe something for me (and anyone else) to try? Saying that, I didnít have all that much a problem with dissolving (I did have issues, but not as bad as some reports) I canít remeber a cycle that ended with undissolved gems.


Post# 986573 , Reply# 10   3/14/2018 at 16:28 (190 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Yes, there was Daz Citrus Blast, because I quite liked the smell of it.

I wonder if the Daz Summer Flower Power will pop up again this summer?

Has anyone tried dosing the Powergems via a thoroughly dried powder dispenser drawer? I am assuming that any water droplets present would cause them to stick fast. I'm actually tempted to buy a small bottle to test them, just to see what the Panasonic's optical sensor makes of them. Maybe that was the reason for Tesco getting shot of the Powergems pronto, because of a product reformulation?

Regarding the optical sensor, heavy zeolite powders (eg. ACDO) lengthen the wash time. Lighter fluffy powders (eg. Daz) minimise the wash time, as do liquids.


Post# 986643 , Reply# 11   3/14/2018 at 23:02 (190 days old) by Michael (London /England)        

I got a box of Daz bed of roses in Asda...£4 for a box of 40 wash (on rollback) I will keep it for the colours...regarding the Persil powergems, I tried them in the drawer and they stuck!, I tried sprinkling them in the drum before adding the laundry, and they still appeared on the glass...and stayed there... I took a photo and sent it to persil on facebook and told them how crap it was at cleaning too.. it soon disappeared!!

Post# 986663 , Reply# 12   3/15/2018 at 03:33 (190 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

Tried them once, just out of curiosity as I have auto dosing, and they were absolutely terrible at dissolving and stuck to the glass on my Miele.

Once can only assume that they also become stuck to parts of the outer drum, where you can't see, too.

What's the point in producing a product that's hard to dissolve, in an era when people expect to be able to do short washes?

I can't see this product lasting unless they completely change it to make it more soluble.




This post was last edited 03/15/2018 at 04:52
Post# 986679 , Reply# 13   3/15/2018 at 06:18 (190 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Powergems sticking...

rolls_rapide's profile picture
In that case, I don't think I'll bother even trying the Powergems.

It makes you wonder how they tested the bloody things... or if they even bothered to trial them.


Post# 986682 , Reply# 14   3/15/2018 at 06:45 (190 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Surf variant...

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Courtesy of Ocado...

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Post# 986683 , Reply# 15   3/15/2018 at 06:55 (190 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I've noticed on Ocado's website that the photos of washing powder actually have "washing powder" emblazoned upon the box, as in Reply #7, above.

Are their customers really that thick?


Post# 986692 , Reply# 16   3/15/2018 at 08:56 (190 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Are their customers really that thick?

Most, if not all of the grocery online stores are doing that now.

Obviously we canít be trusted to know what a product is.

I will try the surf Powergems asap and report back, as whilst I canít be sure, they do seem lighter and not as thick as the Persil ones, so wondering if they are reformulated.

They may have done the same to the Persil ones, but I only bought them once when they first launched, which was probably about 9 months back now.

Thanks for letting me know about Asda having the Daz Michael, will see if I can get down as I donít shop at Asda normally.


Post# 986763 , Reply# 17   3/15/2018 at 17:44 (189 days old) by Michael (London /England)        

I tried the Daz tonight on some light colours...it had a great fragrance when I opened the box..subtle rose smell.. I didn't add any conditioner, very sudsey on the wash! When I removed washing, there was no smell at all...

Post# 986829 , Reply# 18   3/16/2018 at 06:08 (189 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)        

Michael - I wanted to try the Bed of Roses :/ but if there's no scent left after wash.. I don't know..

Post# 986839 , Reply# 19   3/16/2018 at 07:56 (189 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Thanks

Michael.

Iím not so sure now either, itís the suds that puts me off.

Thought theyíd got this under control? Why do they think we want to wear suds covered clothes?


Post# 986859 , Reply# 20   3/16/2018 at 10:50 (188 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        
If it tis scent of roses one wants

launderess's profile picture
Vernel Rose fs is what one wants.

Post# 986903 , Reply# 21   3/16/2018 at 16:28 (188 days old) by Michael (London /England)        

I can't say I will buy it again...I did another wash tonight and again, no smell when the washing came out...very odd!

Post# 987125 , Reply# 22   3/18/2018 at 12:09 (186 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Persil Powergems

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Yesterday, I popped into my local Asda, and decided to buy the small pack of Persil Powergems. Whilst there, I noticed they had Surf Gems. There was no sign of Daz 'Bed of Roses' powder.

I then went to Home Bargains, and bought Acdo Non-Bio powder. I noticed that they had Daz 'Bed of Roses' powder. I shook the box and sniffed it - it seemed quite a subtle fragrance, but I didn't purchase it.

Today, I tried the Powergems, on a moderate load of darks (2 pairs of jeans, 5 T-shirts, 5 lots of undies), in the Panasonic NA-168XR1, on its Econavi Autocare sensor programme.

First of all, I removed the sump filter and cleaned all of the lint from it. Then I flushed the tub-to-sump hose by pouring about a pint of water through the drum. No further debris or fluff was flushed out, so I was reasonably sure that the optical sensor was in a clean condition.

I replaced the filter, and poured about another pint of cold water through the drum to fill the sump for nominal operating conditions. This machine has an open sump, i.e. there is no ball valve like Bosch and the rest of 'em, nor motorised actuator like previous Panasonics.

Clothes were added. Then, I ignored the Powergems instructions about placing directly in the drum.

I measured half a cap of Powergems (suitable for standard 5kg loads) and poured them into the machine's dry dispenser drawer.

They have a pungent floral type smell. No fabric conditioner was added.

The machine weighed the load (1hr 18 mins), filled with cold water (it's a cold fill machine), then mixed the detergent in the tub by revolving the drum at distribution speed for about a minute. Then it topped up the water, and increased time to 1:21. This is in line with a moderate load of laundry, and ice cold water. Time then went down by the minute.

The gems seemed to be flushed totally clear of the drawer. Suds were next to minimal. No gems detected by me initially, but the recirculation jets pulled a couple up from the sump and dribbled them down the glass. They soon dissolved away. A slight increase in suds when recirculation jets were on; disappeared as soon as the jets ceased.

It got to 0:36 and drained. The interim spin was achieved okay; first rinse had hardly any suds. The first rinse interim spin achieved okay, it then hopped to final rinse. Similarly, hardly any suds in the water. Final spin achieved on time.

I then tried a second load (lightweight, polycotton bed sheets), same dose of gems, and just used the machine 'as is'. The gems stuck to the water droplets in the drawer from the previous cycle. I had to dislodge them with my finger, and flush them away with a little warm water.

The second load seems to be of similar programme length as the previous load, but slightly less weight, so it shaved a couple of minutes off the time.

Thus, the machine seems to see these gems as being similar to light fluffy powders (e.g. Daz), and/or liquids (Ariel, Persil).

The first load was put in the dryer. I am not really liking the smell. It's a rose type smell but it seems artificial, like a cross between Turkish Delight and air-fresheners - i.e. cheap 'n' nasty.

I won't buy again, and I'm not convinced that these have any advantages over powders and liquids. There's no bleach for one thing, and with 'greater than 30%' anionic surfactants, they seem to be just like a liquid detergent which as been freeze-dried (perhaps that is the way this product was made? - like instant coffee?



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Post# 987139 , Reply# 23   3/18/2018 at 14:19 (186 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)        

Rolls_rapide - thank you for the very informative post, from what youíve said I wonít even try it in my TL washer.. Iíll stick to my Ariel liquid and powder :) (maybe some daz powder as well)

Post# 987142 , Reply# 24   3/18/2018 at 14:51 (186 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thanks.

After the clothes and sheets were tumble-dried, there seemed to be virtually no fragrance from the items. I'll give it a day or two, and see if wearing the clothes produces a fragrance of any kind (I don't like Ariel powder for this particular reason).

I found a photo from ETM-Testmagazin.de, of a similar model to my machine.
The photo is taken from within the drum, looking upwards and out of the machine, but at a slight angle.

The larger white nozzle, shown on the left here, is the steam nozzle (not fitted to my model).

The other three nozzles are part of the recirculation jet system, fed from a single hose and common manifold.

Of the three smaller nozzles, the centre nozzle sits precisely at 12 o'clock, and the others flank it on either side.


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Post# 987143 , Reply# 25   3/18/2018 at 15:00 (186 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)        

Rolls_rapide - Ariel powder was recently updated, I have zero scent left after the dryer :)

I like the recirculation on your machine!


Post# 987146 , Reply# 26   3/18/2018 at 15:23 (186 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Cheers!

My mum uses Ariel powder and I like the smell in the box and during washing.

I cannot stand the fragrance on the dried articles, ie towels and clothes.

I bought a small box last year to try, and washed some clothes in it. I had reason to rush down the town to get to a couple of shops before they closed at 5pm. Slightly later, I was in Tesco getting a couple of items, and I kept getting a strange odour - much to my horror!

I realised that my body heat and associated moisture - i.e. sweat - had released whatever perfumes are in Ariel. It put me right off Ariel.


Post# 987155 , Reply# 27   3/18/2018 at 16:06 (186 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Persil Powergems

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The fragrance (read, 'smell') left in the machine after the loads of laundry were washed with Persil Powergems is odd.

The main fragrance is 'rose', but it has a lingering undertone similar to Persil powder - I would say of 'mushrooms'. It's almost like a hybrid of perfumes from Ariel powder and Persil powder.

I don't get that with Daz, Formil, Almat, Acdo and Tesco.


Post# 987225 , Reply# 28   3/19/2018 at 08:04 (186 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
An update...

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Persil Powergems:
Synthetic articles of laundry which were left to hang dry, have a scent of roses, but it smells like a cheap perfume that a 'lady of the night' might use use.

Cottons and polycottons which were tumble dried have a slightly different, mustier fragrance. It is much diminished, but seems to have a 'rub and release' action. I think it smells vaguely similar to Ariel - which I'm not fond of.

I still don't know what benefits these gems are supposed to have over other formats.

Liquids work better on the quick washes, powders whiten more effectively, and pods just get flung in.


Post# 987859 , Reply# 29   3/24/2018 at 08:06 (181 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Suds... with Powergems!

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I have done several loads with Persil Powergems, and I have become 'accustomed' to the stench, er, fragrance. Yesterday, I did the bed sheets in them, and surprisingly - not least to myself - I rather liked the fresh smell from the bedding.

Usually, with Powergems, any foam is virtually non-existent until the water heats up and the recirculation jets activate. Then, there are soft suds to a moderate degree.

I have just washed a medium load of darks - and the suds were right up the door. The only difference to the usual load of darks, was that this load had a few brand-new garments (4 undies, 1 pair pyjamas).

Adding fabric conditioner through the dispenser drawer, during the wash, temporarily diminished the foam. But it increased again when the jets reactivated a few minutes later. Rinsing quickly shifted the remaining suds - the machine managed to only do it with two rinses.

I was wondering if the new clothes were perhaps coated with some kind of foaming or detergent agent during the production process? Would fire-retardants (eg. on pyjamas) cause such an effect?





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