Thread Number: 75184  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
F&P DishDrawer - No Liquid Detergent?
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Post# 990027   4/9/2018 at 09:19 (496 days old) by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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Just got a new DishDrawer double unit, the Tall model with sanitize, and it's a gorgeous machine. One thing I noticed is the manual explicitly says powdered or tablet detergent only, no liquid. Anyone know why this is?

Post# 990031 , Reply# 1   4/9/2018 at 09:51 (496 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Glenn would know for sure....

but I think it comes from a liquid, even though thick, will run out the drain hole prematurely versus powder in the dispenser.....

if I recall, tablets are supposed to be put into the silverware holder to dissolve slowly...

Post# 990036 , Reply# 2   4/9/2018 at 10:21 (496 days old) by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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Yep there was included a tablet tray for each drawer that fits in top of the silverware basket. The manual also says you can just drop the tablet in the bottom of the tub.

Post# 990049 , Reply# 3   4/9/2018 at 12:13 (496 days old) by Chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
I always wondered about Tabs in these machines...

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If a tablet is made for a full size machine wouldn't that be too much soap in the DishDrawer or do they make special tablets for those?  I have a countertop unit that I use from time to time and I only use powder in that because I thought the Tabs would be too much soap for a machine that uses less water per fill. Or, am I off the mark on that one?  I thought I read years ago that the liquids are not good for your machine because they have maybe Chalk or something along those lines that would eventually harm your machine.  Does anyone know if that's true?


By the way, how do you like your DishDrawer? 

Post# 990050 , Reply# 4   4/9/2018 at 12:34 (496 days old) by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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I was thinking the same thing about the tabs being too large. I'm going to pick up some powder today (machine came with sample finish tabs)

Haven't run it enough to say but so far it's great. Best capacity out of any machine I have had and it's very quiet. The design looks stellar as well. The only thing I would count as a negative is that the install was very difficult compared to a normal machine.

I'll post pictures soon.

Post# 990051 , Reply# 5   4/9/2018 at 12:36 (496 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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tablets are effective for both.....although I always thought one was not enough for a full size dishwasher, yet it did it's job!.....

somehow having more was better than not enough in some cases....

I guess you could always break one in half....

yes, while it was recommended to just drop a tablet in the bottom of a DishDrawer.....keep in mind, the clearance of the wash arm with the bottom screen is minimal.....the wash arm may get stuck until that tablet dissolves enough to allow free that is why I always tossed it in with the silverware....


Post# 990063 , Reply# 6   4/9/2018 at 15:08 (495 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

I moved to a new condo 2 months ago. The condo came equipped with the Fisher Paykel dishdrawers. I use Cascade powder, and it does a good job. I just cleaned the filters yesterday, and I should have done it when I moved in. The previous owner obviously didn't clean them at all. They were filthy like you wouldn't believe.

Do I like them? Let's say I don't hate them, I will use them for now. I do miss my Bosch dishwasher from the previous house. Main reason is the small capacity of the dishdrawers. There is always one drawer full at the end of the day, and we are only two people in the house. And the way the racks are set up, you can only put large plates and small plates on one side. The other side is mainly for glasses and cups, and you can't fit too many of those. 2 rows of 4 or 5 glasses, depending how big your glasses are.

One good thing is the fast cycle. If you use Fast cycle, and eco option, you get a full wash, and a full rinse in about 25 minutes.

Am I saving energy by running a half dishwasher daily, compared to a full dishwasher every two or three days? I don't know.

One good thing, if you have a drawer running, you can still put in dirty dishes in the other one. Same thing when you are slow at unloading a clean load, you keep filling up the other drawer. While the clean dishes sit in the other drawer.

Post# 990074 , Reply# 7   4/9/2018 at 16:49 (495 days old) by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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@whitetub do you have the Tall model or the model with equally sized drawers?

Post# 990089 , Reply# 8   4/9/2018 at 19:29 (495 days old) by Whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

The top one is 15 1/2 inch tall and the bottom is 14 inch tall.
The bottom panel has small dent, but I can live with it.

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Post# 990092 , Reply# 9   4/9/2018 at 19:41 (495 days old) by Whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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I have a dent on the top door! They were practically giving it away but you can only see the dent from this exact angle.

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Post# 990094 , Reply# 10   4/9/2018 at 19:54 (495 days old) by Whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

They look good in stainless. Your top drawer looks bigger than mine. The dent is small. I wouldn’t worry about it.

Nothing compared to the dents on my fridge. The previous owner bought it that way. I will change the fridge next month.

Post# 990096 , Reply# 11   4/9/2018 at 20:14 (495 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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I'd be leery of tablets, pods, and pacs on point of overdosing.  My DD is 14yo, takes ~0.8 gal per fill.  I imagine current models are similar.  Not sure how that compares to standard-tub dishwashers (anyone have details for comparison?) but it's not much volume of water.

I use 3 teaspoons of powder for the main wash, 1 teaspoon for the prewash.  Maybe 1/2 tsp more for really heavy soil.

I have somewhat hard well-water and as discussed in another thread I get considerable sudsing from Cascade Platinum pacs to the point that rotation of the spray arm is impaired.  Gross sudsing can cause the pump to be starved for water.  It's possible for the arm to push some suds through the air vent at rear of the tub.

I also find pods to be a waste in that there's not much detergent left for the main wash period, although that may not be a problem with current models.  My older DD runs one to three water changes *before* the main wash period so much of the pod is gone, flushed away, before the main wash begins.  I believe newer models have modified programming such that all cycles begin with the main wash period ... no prewash or prerinses.  Check your user guide to confirm, it should have details on the sequence of each cycle.

A drawer holds more than may be expected when loading creativity comes into play.

Post# 990108 , Reply# 12   4/9/2018 at 21:38 (495 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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maybe newer models have changed.....but it was my understanding, as viewing/using both, that top and bottom are the same size inside.....the front panels may appear as one bigger than the other......

all parts seemed to interchange between the two....

I always favored the top unit, which was also great for my partner with back issues...

Post# 990111 , Reply# 13   4/9/2018 at 21:56 (495 days old) by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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@DADoES, I just kicked off a Normal Eco cycle and it went straight to a long main wash. I've attached the cycle phase descriptions from the manual, which support your theory. I'll probably get the powder anyway to gain the benefits of the engineering that went into the dispenser (faster dissolve and so on).

@Yogitunes, there is still the same-sized model but F&P came out with the Tall model a few years ago where the top drawer is much deeper than the bottom. Some said it was because people complained about plates not fitting in the original model, but who knows. They also sell the deep model as a single drawer, which would be the best if you got one on each side of the sink. It'd be like 130% of an ordinary dishwasher capacity-wise, with great ergonomics as you mentioned.

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Post# 990132 , Reply# 14   4/10/2018 at 01:18 (495 days old) by thomasortega (We have a famous sign, earthquakes, bushfires and weed)        

Guess what I always did in Brazil using the three tiny Brastemp and Electrolux "6 services" dishwashers and with OUTRAGEOUS prices for detergents.

If you think detergent is expensive here, take a trip to brazil and don't forget a defibrillator. $25 a box with if i'm not mistaken 12 tablets. Low end Finish, the only option available or "Sun" (Unilever)

Break the tablet in two!

Once I used cascade gel in my electrolux. I don't remember what AWO member made me a very nice christmas surprise and mailed it to Brazil. I loved the gesture, but the product itself was a complete disaster.
Oversuds, my kitchen floor flooded and the dishes had a greasy film. I had to wash twice to get rid of that.

Never again i used liquids.

Right when I arrived here in the USA and moved from Extended Stay America to a roommate's flat in Dallas, she had exactly the same Cascade and a "contractor model" Hotpoint dishwasher. Guess what! Perfect results, no duds, no nothing.

The dishwasher size matters, of course, but I believe the liquids don't get along well with extremely soft water.

Post# 990148 , Reply# 15   4/10/2018 at 05:28 (495 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I use gel frequently...the old fashioned kind with chlorine in it, either walmart brand or cascade with suds at all compared to ANY tablet...including the ones made for soft water(I have a softener)...foamy foamy foamy...sometimes comes out under the door.  I quit buying them.

Post# 990160 , Reply# 16   4/10/2018 at 06:19 (495 days old) by Easyspindry (Winston-Salem, NC)        
I love my F&P . . .

. . . dish drawers. They are the standard size that have been working flawlessly for about 10 years. They are quiet and efficient. I like the idea of running them more often than a standard size machine because when I need a certain utensil with which to cook or mix, it's clean and ready for use instead of sitting dirty in a standard size machine waiting for a full load of dishes before running the cycle.

They clean well and are quiet.

Once you learn some tricks of the loading process, it is amazing how much will fit into a drawer.

Good luck. I hope you enjoy them as much as I do.

Jerry Gay

Post# 990163 , Reply# 17   4/10/2018 at 07:29 (495 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Martin, the upper front panel on double-drawer units has always been taller in relation to the lower front panel due to the toekick at the bottom .... however, DishDrawer Tall was introduced several years ago which has a deeper upper drawer to take larger-diameter plates, platters, taller items, etc. (the lower drawer is the same interior height as always, far as I'm aware).  There's also a different/optional plate rack insert available (assuming it still is available) to take slightly larger diameter plates in the standard-height models.

There's also DishDrawer Wide, which is 36" width (single-drawer models only) and has a second spray arm.

Post# 990167 , Reply# 18   4/10/2018 at 08:03 (495 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

The inside of my drawers are the same, top and bottom, even though the bottom panel is 1 inch and 1/2 shorter.

They hold plates that are quite large. I would have no use for a deeper drawer. It even fits very tall wine glasses that barely fit in my previous Bosch dishwasher. The only problem that I find, is when you load smaller plates and bowls, the area in between the glasses and plates is wasted space.(see picture, where the blue circle is ) If you put glasses there, they don't stand up straight, anything that protrudes the bottom rack will stop the wash arm movement. The racking in that area should be more tightly weaved, if that term makes sense.

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Post# 990171 , Reply# 19   4/10/2018 at 08:22 (495 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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there are many advantages to a DishDrawer.....

.I walways liked being able to wash two different loads at the same time.....pots and pans, glassware, plates and cups....

once you learn to adapt to loading and pre-rinsing.....they are very effective machines.....

I always thought if I redid the kitchen, I wanted one on each side of the sink....or at least in combination with a regular machine.....

single drawer units come in handy for a number of configurations....would have loved to have one of these when I had a wet bar....

Post# 990172 , Reply# 20   4/10/2018 at 08:23 (495 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My DD603 cycle chart.  Initial Prewash vs. Rinse depends whether detergent is dosed in the prewash cup.

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Post# 990816 , Reply# 21   4/15/2018 at 12:00 (490 days old) by Whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

After spending the morning doing dishes by hand, because the Double drawers won’t drain, I will call the service guy tomorrow for those Fisher & Paykel dishwashers. If it’s too costly to repair, I guess I will just get a real dishwasher and get rid of the Fisher Price plastic toys. Not impressed at all. I miss my old Bosch dishwasher today.

Post# 990856 , Reply# 22   4/15/2018 at 16:37 (489 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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its a simple drain line setup.....

mine would get plugged if someone loaded with out pre-rinsing a lot of the major stuff off....

and my drain line would get plugged......

first make sure the area under the big metal screen disc is cleaned out.....

and then remove the connections under the sink.....and hook up a wet/dry vac to clear each hose individually.....

that should solve your problem....

then run a rinse or two to flush out the rest....

Post# 990869 , Reply# 23   4/15/2018 at 18:54 (489 days old) by Whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

Thanks, I will try this week, as soon as I can get my plumber friend over. He’s good with that stuff

Post# 991533 , Reply# 24   4/20/2018 at 11:55 (485 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Load thrown together somewhat hastily and not exactly a BobLoad®, but an example of how the spray can get around and through gaps between items.

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Post# 991702 , Reply# 25   4/21/2018 at 20:21 (483 days old) by fisherpaykel (BC Canada)        
Liquid or gel, Bobload Reg., Plastics hold down clips!

I have used gels with no problem, was gifted two jugs-if any leaks out before the wash phase it must be minimal, clean wash results. Tabs I will sometimes add to top shelf after first prerinse but recently I tried older Cascade Complete tabs and sufficient remained after two pre-rinses.  I didn't realize Bobload was now a registered trademark, got a laugh from that Dadoes and I like your light weight items improvised hold down clips! Recently my sister's 10 year old DD top drawer would not run, we identified probable wash motor problem and after convincing her kids to not call repairman before swapping out bottom drawer motor to top, they rarely use bottom, success! Gotta love F&P's top access tool free twist and lift out motor pump rotor design- 5 minutes or less. How much effort is needed to change a pump on conventional dishwashers? My 603 model is about 14 years old and still no repair replacement, I installed with undersink switch to avoid possible power surge problems as per their install brochure. As others mentioned the top drawer ergonomics just make sense.

Post# 991713 , Reply# 26   4/21/2018 at 21:34 (483 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I'm just fine...

I'm just fine with my Kenmore 13222 white dishwasher with stainless steel interior.

Post# 991715 , Reply# 27   4/21/2018 at 21:37 (483 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
dishwasher soap and rinse aid

I can use any dishwasher soap and rinse aid. The tab premixes just fine due to the spray action of the wash arms. I use cascade platinum along with its companion rinse aid.

Post# 991744 , Reply# 28   4/22/2018 at 07:39 (483 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

You have to pre rinse?!
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of a dishwasher?

I will scrape off big food reminents but if I have to pre rinse dishes, I might as well just wash them in the sink.

Post# 991752 , Reply# 29   4/22/2018 at 09:19 (483 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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iej:  You have to pre rinse?!
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of a dishwasher?

I will scrape off big food reminents but if I have to pre rinse dishes, I might as well just wash them in the sink.
You're referring to FisherPaykel's Reply #25? mentioning of prerinses?  He's talking about the dishwasher cycle running one or two prerinses before the main wash ... not hand-rinsing the dishware before loading.

Post# 991761 , Reply# 30   4/22/2018 at 11:25 (483 days old) by iej (Ireland)        

I was referring back to post #19.

I understood it as manual pre-rinsing. I have encountered a few people staying that they feel need to manually 'pre-rinse' dishes by hand before dishwashing in a machine and it always seems like an absolutely waste of time, effort and water. Most machines in my experience will quite happily wash dirty dishes.

Miele actually goes as far as suggesting that you absolutely should not do that as the detergent needs something to work on, rather than almost clean dishes - it can result in over-foaming etc if there's no dirt present.

Post# 991771 , Reply# 31   4/22/2018 at 13:12 (483 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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I don't hand-rinse anything as you can see from the pics in Reply #24 and these.

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Post# 991773 , Reply# 32   4/22/2018 at 14:11 (482 days old) by jerrod6 (Philadelphia(center city), Pennsylvania)        
No pre-wash

Seems like the newer model mentioned in this post does not do any pre-rinse or pre-wash before the main wash so there shouldn't be any problem of rinsing detergent away before the main wash when using a tab.

Post# 991925 , Reply# 33   4/23/2018 at 22:20 (481 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
i NEVER prerinse...

I never prerinse any of my dishes.

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