Thread Number: 75309  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
CNET 2018 speed queen review
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Post# 991510   4/20/2018 at 09:00 (184 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Looks like I’m not so crazy after all

www.cnet.com/products/spe...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lorainfurniture's LINK





Post# 991530 , Reply# 1   4/20/2018 at 11:15 (184 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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"The Bottom Line Speed Queen's TR7 washing machine doesn't clean nearly well enough to recommend it to anyone."


WOW!
I wonder how Alliance is going to try to bully/strong-arm Cnet now.
(gets popcorn out)


Post# 991531 , Reply# 2   4/20/2018 at 11:34 (184 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
New SQ TL Washers

combo52's profile picture
Well the reviewer makes a few stupid statements like;

People don't buy Speed Queens for speed

And saying it looks like something out of the 80s or 90s

But the real point is it does NOT clean well, I was probably about the first to say that this machine could NOT work, Even my friend Eugene said it couldn't be that bad, until he actually tested it.

And as I said before, IF IT WAS THIS EASY TO MAKE A WASHER WASH CLOTHING CLEAN, ABOUT 100+ MANUFACTURERS AROUND THE WORLD SURE WASTED A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT OVER THE LAST 100 YEARS.

Between dropping the worlds best FL washer and this new TL washer I would sell any SQ stock you have very quickly.


Post# 991537 , Reply# 3   4/20/2018 at 12:32 (184 days old) by John76 (USA)        

It’s interesting that many of their negative comments about the machine would have applied to the 2017 model. I wonder if the tester would have gotten much better results had they chosen a more appropriate wash cycle. Perhaps, heavy duty with a prewash cycle that at least matched up with the time the other machines got to run with the load. Not too sure I would take the WP or LG model over the 2018 SQ given the choice.

Post# 991539 , Reply# 4   4/20/2018 at 12:52 (184 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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"you typically want a washer that's at least 4-5 cubic feet to fit a typical 8-pound load of laundry."

What?!?!


Post# 991540 , Reply# 5   4/20/2018 at 12:56 (184 days old) by Infusor (Usa)        

Cnet doesn't like anything. They also said the LG front load with turbowash was terrible at cleaning. I have one and it does great! This coming from people that say a wash plate base cabrio is a great machine SMH.

Post# 991541 , Reply# 6   4/20/2018 at 12:57 (184 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Speed Queen's newest video, posted this month

logixx's profile picture





Post# 991543 , Reply# 7   4/20/2018 at 13:24 (184 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Funny how there's zeroing in here on the "nitpicky" comments about size and style that Cnet made.
Yet glossing over of what John also says, that "their test results show a marked deficiency in cleaning."
You may poo poo Cnets reporting, but they have years worth, and hundreds of machines worth of data on cleaning and fraying performance.
In fact, Cnet claims they checked their data more than once, because they didn't believe the results at first.
But the data doesn't lie.
The TR7 was one of their worst performing machines in 5 years.
(According to the tests)


Post# 991545 , Reply# 8   4/20/2018 at 13:40 (184 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

While I did read some technical flaws in their article regarding tub size etc. the point is they came to the same conclusion as I did. Clearly the author is not a washer fanatic, just relaying information.

Post# 991548 , Reply# 9   4/20/2018 at 14:14 (184 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Guys, do we need more than this video to believe the new SQ is the worst crap ever made?

Even the WonderWash cleans better than that!

"It can't be that bad..." you're right! It's >>>MUCH WORSE<<< than one can think! yell





Post# 991554 , Reply# 10   4/20/2018 at 14:41 (184 days old) by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
.
The SQ promo video says the tub changes direction and forces water through the cloths.
Seems to me though that the tub, agitator, water, AND cloths are essentially moving as one unit.
Thus reversing direction of the tub and agitator, as currently designed, doesn't do enough to cause the necessary turbulence for effective washing to occur.


Post# 991572 , Reply# 11   4/20/2018 at 19:31 (184 days old) by Infusor (Usa)        

I've read through alot of cnet's reviews, almost every single top loader regular and HE, they said "does not remove stains well" even the lg front load with turbowash they said had "terrible performance" which i own one and it is a great machine. Even eugene had videos on the lg and how good it cleans. The same machine did well in consumer reports. I do not trust cnet. If you read their reviews they bash every machine.

Post# 991573 , Reply# 12   4/20/2018 at 19:40 (184 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        
Bought a new refrigerator today

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I went to the same local dealer I bought all my appliances from. But after the 23 year old Whirlpool refrigerator was making alot of noise from the freezer fan, I said lets do it. While writing up the order, I saw they had 2017 Speed Queen washers on the floor. They told me they bought every one they could, about 120 and have sold all but 7 at $849. My new Frigidare is a 30" wide 18 cubic foot, basic model to fit between 2 windows, what I wanted for $499. Salesman remembered delivering my old ones that I still have. They will put the noisy Whirlpool in my mechanical room for me as a backup. What more can you ask for.

Post# 991584 , Reply# 13   4/20/2018 at 21:18 (183 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Speed Queen 2018 top load!

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All people have to do is watch the videos on youtube to see the 2018 speed queens wont stand up to cleaning really dirty clothes! What cracks me up you can buy a $400 GE and will wash circles around this new SQ that costs more than double!!




Post# 991589 , Reply# 14   4/20/2018 at 22:28 (183 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
Robert/Stricklybojack

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I couldn't agree with you more. I think the only thing that the new Speed Queen might wash correctly is ladies fancy lingerie. Remember those Philco "Miss America" machines? Maybe Speed Queen should come out with a "Victoria's Secret" model.


Post# 991598 , Reply# 15   4/21/2018 at 01:06 (183 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

WOW at $1000+ I could buy a better machine from the local SWAP SHOP for $100 as opposed to the 2018 SQ.Now if we got the 2017 or older versions-GREAT!!!

Post# 991616 , Reply# 16   4/21/2018 at 06:43 (183 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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That's a slap in the face for Speed Queen, but perhaps it should be a wake up call. A $1,000 for a poor performer is clearly unacceptable.

I wonder if poorly performing washing machines - of all types - could be assisted just by switching to a good detergent?

Perhaps that is where the complaints are coming from... using a poor machine with a lacklustre detergent?

Test institutes etc, tend to use a 'standard' test detergent. Online review companies sometimes use a 'non-biological' detergent.


Post# 991619 , Reply# 17   4/21/2018 at 07:24 (183 days old) by John76 (USA)        
2016 Speed Queen TL Review

Found this review of a SQ TL model folks here seem to approve of. It didn’t fare too well either on wash performance while being rougher on clothes.

“Besides the Speed Queen being not up to, well, speed, the AWNE92SP also falls behind when it comes to stain removal”

“For example, the similarly priced Electrolux EFLS617SIW removed 27 percent more stains than this Speed Queen on its Heavy Duty cycle and 13 percent more stains on its Whites cycle. We got similar results from Kenmore, LG, Maytag, and Whirlpool front-loaders”

“They also may notice the fact the Speed Queen's aggressive wash cycles put more wear and tear on fabrics. For example, the mechanical action strips we use to test fabric wear had 36% more torn threads on the Normal cycle than the popular GE GTW680BS. On the Quick cycle, the Speed Queen tore more than three times as many threads.”

“Conclusion
There's a reason most cabbies and cops mourned the demise of the Ford Crown Victoria. It wasn't a particularly good car—it guzzled gas, rode on a decades-old design, and handled about as nimbly as a mattress. But it could take years of punishment on city roads. Drivers had grown accustomed to it, and mechanics found it easy and quick to repair.

That's kind of like the Speed Queen top-load washer. It doesn't clean as well as a more modern machine, and it's not as efficient as the best front-loaders, but that flashy new washer also won't have Speed Queen's five-year warranty or commercial design.

We can't recommend that tradeoff, which explains why this machine gets such a low score. That's because our priorities are stain removal, fabric handling, and efficiency. If your priorities are a long warranty and commercial-grade durability, however, the Speed Queen AWNE92SP113TW may be worth a look.”

laundry.reviewed.com/content/spee...



Post# 991620 , Reply# 18   4/21/2018 at 08:00 (183 days old) by John76 (USA)        
CNET’S Favorite Top Loader

The Bottom Line The Kenmore Elite 31633 is the best top-load washer we've encountered to date and it's on sale at Sears for just $915 -- a steal if you need a large-capacity model.


www.cnet.com/products/ken...


Post# 991626 , Reply# 19   4/21/2018 at 09:46 (183 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
It's easy for us to nit-pick

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Reviews - Cnet did one on pressure cookers a few years back in which they listed the total cooking time for a chicken-broth soup as over two hours. My correspondence with the reviewing team was a comedy of errors - they weren't going to let go of that two hours come hell or high water. Ditto other measurements.

All wrong, wrong, wrong.

So, yeah, sometimes they do get it badly wrong. Here, though, no.

Speed Queen, like KA was once a really outstanding brand. Today, it's over-priced and under-performs.

By now, the people at Alliance know the score and the fact that they've chosen to BS their way through instead of admitting mistakes (which cold be fixed by software patches!!!!!) tells us everything we need to know.

Another once great brand is now just a hollow core.


Post# 991630 , Reply# 20   4/21/2018 at 11:45 (183 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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This industry needs a revolution. And more talent. Everything seems to be getting better except major appliances.

Post# 991631 , Reply# 21   4/21/2018 at 11:55 (183 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
New SQ TL Washers

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No amount of software fixes will make a washer wash big loads evenly that does not have the ability to turn over a load of clothing and flex the fabrics, doing this is one of the core parts of washing clothing.

If it was as simple as reprogramming it would have been done already, SQ played with this design for over 5 years before its introduction.

This new washer is a classic case of trying to do everything in house, they should have sent out samples a few years ago before launching into full production.


Post# 991676 , Reply# 22   4/21/2018 at 16:30 (183 days old) by Infusor (Usa)        

The LG WM9000HVA, is a consumer reports top performing front load, what does cnet say? "It has poor performance" and "doesn't remove stains well" gee not according to consumer reports. Cnet is seriously a joke, if you look up their review of literally evey machine they say the same thing "does not remove stains well" of course if you use the normal eco cycle (which uses cold water) and they stated using "aham standard detergent" of course not many stains will come out genius, meanwhile the ONLY machine they deem as "very good at removing stains" which was a kenmore, i noticed a big box of tide powder sitting next to the machine. Seems to me this is just a stab at attacking speed queen, TOTALLY biased. Since they even mention eugenes video which his machine is not functioning like it should, seems pretty unfair if you aske me, i hated this machine when i first saw a video, but when i realized it was a bad machine and saw other videos of it and muddy jeans test and how good it did i realized it actually is a good machine. Id rather have this over a crappy whirlpool cabrio that cant even get the clothes wet, and not enough torque to turn a sock over.

Post# 991680 , Reply# 23   4/21/2018 at 17:04 (183 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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I wonder if poorly performing washing machines - of all types - could be assisted just by switching to a good detergent?

 

Probably yes. I haven't done scientific tests, but I did sense that improved detergent quality seemed to help when I was stuck using a WCI Frigidaire. I get the same feeling with current WP DD, but probably not as extreme. Meanwhile, I was happy with pretty much any passable detergent with the last BD Kenmore I used, which was the best washer I've used in the last 10 years.

 

I have to assume the new Speed Queen would work better with Tide or Persil than, say, All.

 

That said, I'm not happy with the idea of any washer demanding expensive detergent for "acceptable" washing. I am considerably less happy when that washer is expensive. I can tolerate (and have tolerated) WCI Frigidaires in rentals I've had. I might even tolerate buying a WCI Frigidaire if it was dirt cheap. But spending $1,000 on a new washer that requires TOL detergent to offer acceptable washing is not acceptable.

 

 


Post# 991684 , Reply# 24   4/21/2018 at 17:19 (183 days old) by Infusor (Usa)        

It depends on the temperature of the water, agitation time etc, every machine has different fill temps and or agitation times for their normal cycle, which is not very consistent if you ask me. Put the new speed queen on warm or hot and heavy duty and the stains would come out. I recall the normal eco cycle uses cold water regardless of what temp is selected, while other brands use warmer (slightly warmer than room temp) water.

Post# 991704 , Reply# 25   4/21/2018 at 20:30 (182 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
I'm not surprised...

I'm not surprised that this washer performed poorly even on the super soiled setting! I had high hopes! SMH!

Post# 991709 , Reply# 26   4/21/2018 at 20:55 (182 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
or...

Or, they should've used the heavy duty cycle with tide and downy in addition to using Clorox when washing whites, period.

Post# 991736 , Reply# 27   4/22/2018 at 06:11 (182 days old) by jcturbot (Central MA)        

Doesn't surprise me one bit-

You use any Washing Machine on a "Eco" cool water wash, top or front load, for only 29 minutes and see what you get for stain removal.

Someone should write Cnet and have them rerun the test on a Warm Heavy Duty cycle (the real "Normal" cycle), and recheck the results, I can bet they'll be much better.

Jeff



Post# 991737 , Reply# 28   4/22/2018 at 06:41 (182 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
"That said, I'm not happy with the idea of any washer demanding expensive detergent for "acceptable" washing."

Not necessarily so.

According to European consumer magazines, some of the store brands (i.e. Lidl, Aldi) - powders in particular - clean rings around most of the other brands. In other words, they match or even slightly exceed the performance of Ariel and Persil.


Post# 991775 , Reply# 29   4/22/2018 at 14:26 (182 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
I think Alliance could

Speed Queen could, with a minor redesign have a washer at least as good as the 2017. They can keep the transmission less design with the reversing motor for agitation, and, provide a separate brake for the tub so that the agitation can be more brisk. The problem with the current design is that you can't reverse that much mass very quickly.

The spin could be accomplished with a stop between the agitator and tub that would engage when the agitation spins in only one direction, much like the Maytag Helical engagement. Of course the tub would be braked in a specific location, and agitation would be 270 degrees, so as not to interfere with the location of the stop. I think this simple modification would add a minimal amount of cost.

As others have pointed out, the overall build quality is still there and if the machine could be made with a more active agitation it would be acceptable to many.

In any case I hope that Alliance can improve the product before all of the good will built up over the years is completely gone.


Post# 991846 , Reply# 30   4/23/2018 at 06:00 (181 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

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Good Suggestions Martin, and I know SQ experimented with many of these ideas, but it makes it a lot more complicated and far less reliable to add these functions.

 

GE, WP, LG and SS and others are building their top loading washers to allow separate tub and agitator-impeller movement, but they are all having problems with these designs.

 

John L.


Post# 991852 , Reply# 31   4/23/2018 at 06:31 (181 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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YOU CAN'T POLISH A TURD,  NOR CAN YOU PICK ONE UP BY THE CLEAN END!


Post# 991909 , Reply# 32   4/23/2018 at 17:44 (181 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Another idea

One other change that could work is to have a separate motor for the spin. I know these ideas would cost more, but if Alliance does nothing, they may go out of business. I have my 2017, so probably it will last as long as I will. I think they were trying to simplify the design and cost but as John pointed out the other major brands are struggling with this issue also. They could always go back to the old design which is better at cleaning and sturdy enough to last.

Post# 991915 , Reply# 33   4/23/2018 at 18:46 (181 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Fisher and Paykel did both in the 1980's on the Gentle Annie computer controlled machine.

There is a single belt from the 12 pole motor and it drives the agitator shaft. The agitator shaft has a metal tab on it, so any time it goes past 340 degree's it drives the outer tub. Occasionally you'll hear the tab knock as the tub indexes, but otherwise its just the weird motor sounds.

Braking is accomplished by the motor. These machines were made up until the early 90's before the Smart Drive machines came out. This would've been the perfect solution for Speed Queen, a Rugged solution with variable speeds but still having the Agitator move separately to the Bowl.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO brisnat81's LINK


Post# 991927 , Reply# 34   4/23/2018 at 23:20 (180 days old) by Spinmon (st. charles mo )        

The washer in SQ's lame video SHOULD get those few items clean! Reminds me of 55+ years ago playing with my crank-type or battery-operated toy washers. They had a similar agi-tub system. With a few doll clothes pieces SOME action would occur.


How I wished then that someone made a toy washer like the REAL WASHERS with separate tub/agitator action!! And now here we are with the renowned Speed Queen pushing $1000.00 toy washers.

Keeping my '12 AWN542 as long as possible.


Post# 991932 , Reply# 35   4/24/2018 at 00:28 (180 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I don't think Alliance will go under just because of the lame TL washer-they mainly cater to commercial laundry business.They will more likely go out of the household laundry business altogether.

Post# 992316 , Reply# 36   4/27/2018 at 18:46 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Consumer reports






CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lorainfurniture's LINK


Post# 992321 , Reply# 37   4/27/2018 at 19:33 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
SQ FL Washers In 2018

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I don't know how many more tests it will take to convince the majority of the washer enthusiasts here on this site that this washer concept does not work, can not work and will NEVER work till it is redesigned.

 

Yes there will be some consumers that will be happy with this washer, but it will be much like the many owners of Maytag dependable care washers that over the years just put up with poor overall performance because it was relibible.

 

During my over 40 years in this business the thousands of our customers that got rid of an old MT DC washer, almost never wanted another one and they always loved the new WP BD and later the DD WP TL washers we sold them because of how much better job they did cleaning etc, I never had a single customer that wanted their old MT back.

 

I do think that you will see quite a few of these new SQs on Craigs list etc in not too many years.

 

John L.


Post# 992325 , Reply# 38   4/27/2018 at 21:07 by Infusor (Usa)        

If you actually watch the video, they used the heavy duty cycle after, (only 40 minutes long) with warm water and it got "fair" which the best performing (non HE) agitator top load also gets "fair" and all other machines have 70 minute cycles. Look at your facts.

Post# 992336 , Reply# 39   4/27/2018 at 23:25 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture

The HD Cycle on the SQ TR7 is 50 minutes


Post# 992337 , Reply# 40   4/27/2018 at 23:31 by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
.
A $1000 machine that struggles to rate a "fair"...good luck with that.
Just picked up an 18 month old SQ 412 for $150 and some driving.
It will take 3 times that to pry it from my mits now.


Post# 992338 , Reply# 41   4/28/2018 at 00:22 by Infusor (Usa)        

It is NOT 50 minutes.

  View Full Size
Post# 992340 , Reply# 42   4/28/2018 at 00:37 by Infusor (Usa)        

Even the $1,000 fisher paykel agitator model earned just a "fair" rating for cleaning. ALL top load washers with agitators only earn a "fair" score. And even half of the HE top loaders as well, i don't get what all the fuss is about. It's on par with everything else on the market. Even the top loaders that get a good rating for cleaning get a poor rating for gentleness.

Post# 992347 , Reply# 43   4/28/2018 at 04:29 by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
All you have to do

Is wash a load in the new Speed Queen...a really nasty dirty load, then take a comparably dirty load to one of the washer guys houses and wash in any 50 or 60 year old machine and see the difference...Especially if they have a Frigidaire, Philco, Norge, whirlpool or a GE!

Post# 992353 , Reply# 44   4/28/2018 at 07:17 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

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Hi Keith, I was going by the CRs tester, as she started the machine on the HD cycle the display came up @ 50 minutes.

 

I think that it is perfectly clear to anyone that knows anything about washing machines that this new machine will not do a good job of washing big dirty loads clean, I predict that this machine will not be sold very many years in this form, I am sure they are now working hard on solutions, new sales are already at 1/2 of last years rate from talking to dealers that sell them.


Post# 992426 , Reply# 45   4/28/2018 at 20:38 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Heavy duty cycle

Heavy duty , normal soil = 40 minutes
Heavy duty, max soil= 50+ minutes.


Post# 992471 , Reply# 46   4/29/2018 at 10:44 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

twintubdexter's profile picture

10 extra minutes of genuine agitation would be beneficial...10 extra minutes of swish & swoosh doesn't accomplish much of anything. Besides, having a washer that swishes might cause your neighbors to "talk". 


Post# 992475 , Reply# 47   4/29/2018 at 10:59 by Infusor (Usa)        

The frigidaire immersion care was very similar in wash action, it got an excellent score for cleaning in CR's test, but the normal cycle with max soil level was 110 minutes, and they said it was very rough on clothes, and spin rpm was only 600 if that so it did poor for extraction. I still think the new speed queen is way better than a new cabrio. Those things are just horrible.

Post# 992484 , Reply# 48   4/29/2018 at 11:47 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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Well this machine isn't for people with dirty clothes, but there are lot of those people these days.

 

They work in offices, don't have kids (or kids are gone), don't have yards (or hire it out), don't work out hard enough to break a sweat, throw a shirt out with a stain (or take it to the cleaners.)

 

These people would probably be happy with this machine and never know the difference.

 


Post# 992514 , Reply# 49   4/29/2018 at 16:13 by Infusor (Usa)        

Why wouldn't people love the new speed queen.... some people love the newer cabrios.... they can't even get clothes wet! Or it ends up filling the whole tub. Which takes 20 min because of the restricted fill valve. Cabrio had to be the worst machine ever made. It's junk.

Post# 992564 , Reply# 50   4/30/2018 at 00:24 by Spinmon (st. charles mo )        

Speed Queen shouldn't catch a break by anyone saying it's better than "junk". The new swisher should clean at least as well as the previous generation. But no. It spins better.

Considering SQ's history and current pricing,I expect a machine that produces a clean wash. Not one that runs 15+ minutes longer and high speeds the unclean load.

Name change: 'Sorta Clean'.


Post# 992600 , Reply# 51   4/30/2018 at 07:27 by John76 (USA)        

I’m not bothered by these stain tests. It appears none of the machines tested remove all the stains, so if it were clothes none of them would be wearable. The times I have had stains, I pretreated the area and the stain came out in the wash. I question the testers and their knowledge on getting the most out of the machines they’re testing. I’m certain there are particular cycles, detergents and water temperatures that would do a better job. The improved results SQ got with the new 2018 model lead me to believe they know something about the machine the outside testers don’t.

Post# 992601 , Reply# 52   4/30/2018 at 07:35 by John76 (USA)        

The thing the SQ TL still has going for it is the build quality, the short cycle times, the ability to choose the water level, the physical size of the machine and tub. I also like the new aesthetics and the fact that it washes better, according to the company that knows the most about the machine. It’s also easier on the fabrics compared to the older models. Not much competition as far as I see.

Post# 992606 , Reply# 53   4/30/2018 at 09:07 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
John76

panthera's profile picture

I agree with you to the extent that, sometimes, manufacturers build good appliances which just aren't used right. I recollect such a situation with a very expensive countertop convection oven a few years back - the oven had a'keep warm' function (which overroad the regular thermostat to hold the oven at the low heat, regardless of the regular setting).

Unfortunately, that setting was illustrated by a pictogram which looked far more like 'bake' than the pictogram for 'bake' did.

They were failed by at least one European testing organization because they made that mistake, much less tens of thousands of unhappy customers.

 

So, yes, some of this is user error.

 

The way Alliance is approaching the problem, though, not good. They need to have a clear setting 'non-Energy Star, non-HE' which will actually use hot water and plenty of it coupled with proper agitation to clean.


Post# 992609 , Reply# 54   4/30/2018 at 09:13 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
The tests seem legitimate for comparison of one machine to another with the methodology they use ... test-soil swatches, detergent & relative dosage (for low-water FL or HE TL vs. deep-fill TL), designated "normal" cycle & options, etc.


Post# 992678 , Reply# 55   4/30/2018 at 21:41 by Infusor (Usa)        

The fisher & paykel agitator top load WA3927G1 had the same score in every category scored just "fair" for stains and has a 55 minute cycle, compared to speed queens heavy duty at 50 min, which ALSO scored "fair" yet i do not hear anybody bashing that machine. My how people can be so biased and ignorant. In fact lots of people on here have said "it's the only top loader worth buying now" SMH

Post# 992680 , Reply# 56   4/30/2018 at 21:45 by Infusor (Usa)        

Here's what happends when you buy consumer reports "top rated" maytag.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Infusor's LINK


Post# 992683 , Reply# 57   4/30/2018 at 22:09 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture

One thing for sure the 2018 SQ won't do that, maybe next time that stupid MT owner will not rap the sheets around the agitator, LOL.


Post# 992687 , Reply# 58   4/30/2018 at 22:21 by Infusor (Usa)        

Maybe the owner wrapped the sheets around the agitator so they don't get off balance, since the maytags cheap plastic tub will hit the cabinet and break if he didn't.

Post# 992694 , Reply# 59   5/1/2018 at 00:22 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Remember reading in the owners manual for the KN DD washer I used to have-they warned NOT to "wrap" sheets around the agitator-or the "twining" that user had could happen.NEVER had anything like that happen.

Post# 992739 , Reply# 60   5/1/2018 at 15:50 by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
John

jetcone's profile picture
IS SQ really dropping the front loader or just removing it from the domestic line up??

Gray’s told me its staying in the line up.



Post# 992775 , Reply# 61   5/1/2018 at 20:23 by henene4 (Germany)        

Even though I dropped out of the whole SQ discussion a month back, I'd like to chime back in again.


Somehow SQ seems to pretty much have lost one of its key qualities: Its simple and straight forward acting as a company.

The brand changed hands (aka mother cooperation) several times during the last few decades and never seemed to have messed up as badly as it does right now.


They are mainly a pro market focused brand and people from the pro market rely on a steady company.
Their home lineup always was just a way to get some marketshare without much hazzle.
The machines were basicly the same for both markets, maybe some parts and some programming was changed, but the majority of the process of construction/development, production and performance was shared.
By all means they could have just sold the exact same machine to the commercial side as they did to their home laundry customers and nobody would have cared.



Now, they do this weired split between going for the consumer market and not giving a shit about it anymore.

They develop a new toploader specifically for the home marekt. R&D is expensive! Their new machine is ENTIRELY different from their commercial counterpart, thus probably requiring a lot of change to their production lineup (even if it is simpeler and cheaper to build, changing the line still is expensive).

But what they produce has none of the benefits they were known for with all the drawbacks they were known for and some more.

They trade in their honesty (which was a big plus) for a product they really can't be proud of.

Then they might even pull their last true-to-philosophy product from the consumer market without any replacement, even though that product still is avaible on the commercial market.

So they invested a lot of money to shoot themselfes out of the marekt. Why?



They should have reworked their FL a little (heater, recirculation but some cheaper parts) and started marekting that towards the home user as a still premium option but more in the ballpark people commonly would spend on high end appliances (between 1000-1300$).

They should have put their own twist on a HE TL. Or even just used a mode shifter in their current design.
I mean, a seperated tub and agitator is a tested and proofen design for direct drive machines.
A joined tub/agitator design has been done and it failed for the same reasons. At least that design was more resource efficent!
If they designed a HE TL to their standards of durability and programming, they could have swept the market.

Seriously.
Imagine a WP Cabrio or VMV TL.
Imagine it with a metal tub and heavy duty suspension.
Imagine a mode shifter with heavy duty parts in it.
Imagine their durable controls with their warrantys on it.
Imagine the normal cycle like the old non-eco cycle (quick filling and sensing, 15min rough agitation, drain/spin, repeat for rinse), or better even, like a hybrid of F&P and Whirlpool and their current design (the sensing works like it does now on their machines, while sensing, it recirculates water and detergent over the clothes and it uses a wash system simmilar to Whirlpools commercial-like home machines).
Get that produced for 999$ and you have a money maker for both the industrial and the home side of buisness.

They have a WiFi connectivity system for their commercial application. Take that, modify and implement on home appliances.
Now you even can advertise the whole smart-home-nonsense.



They always bragged about their incredible engeneers. Where were they during the creation of that?


Post# 992814 , Reply# 62   5/2/2018 at 02:10 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

This is the problem with these corporate change-overs. The new management often has no real clue about the products of the new company.

You have a whole bunch of credentialed people who are given a directive from the new upper management, without often knowing anything about the company and its products. Their role is to increase efficiencies, streamline processes and save money at all costs - even if that means dumbing down their services or products.

This is the problem these days - we have so many highly-qualified people with credentials coming out of their arses, who are great at crunching numbers and writing reports, but who are completely clueless in every other way that requires them to apply their theory in practical ways.

I've worked in that kind of environment and it never comes to anything good in the end. All it does is tear apart a perfectly good business into separate parts, but it does not result in better efficiency outcomes or greater customer satisfaction. Not to mention the toxic work environment that management creates to keep their employees second-guessing if they will still have a job tomorrow.


Post# 992830 , Reply# 63   5/2/2018 at 06:51 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Not related to washers-but instead--Guitars--Gibson.They have filed for bankruptcy -exactly as described in Repunzels post.I don't play-but this is kinda sad--Most think of Gibson as what used to be the largest guitar maker.Their instruments are built in the US-many are fearing the production could be moved to China,Korea,and other places.

Post# 992841 , Reply# 64   5/2/2018 at 09:09 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
How far the rot has gone at Alliance

panthera's profile picture

Can be seen in the way they treated their dealers, erased customer reviews and pretend to this day that everybody else is wrong, wrong, thrice wrong.

Nothing will get fixed.

They'll leave this market.

Given what they've become: Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Oh, and time to start stocking up on parts for the good SQ machines of what is now yesteryear. They ain't a-commin' back.


Post# 992925 , Reply# 65   5/2/2018 at 22:28 by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
.
Panthera ftw!


Post# 992933 , Reply# 66   5/3/2018 at 01:20 by Infusor (Usa)        

And this is what consumer reports says cleans well.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Infusor's LINK


Post# 992943 , Reply# 67   5/3/2018 at 07:50 by John76 (USA)        

Infuser,

What a joke that Maytag looks. I’d take a 2018 SQ over that any day.


Post# 992949 , Reply# 68   5/3/2018 at 08:58 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

I wouldn't buy either. Both are an absolute waste of money. A Fisher and Paykel top loader is a far superior choice in both cases. Alliance have stuffed up big time with this unimaginative and tired design. Eugene's evaluations are on the money and the evidence speaks for itself. I've been using Speed Queen top loaders for thirty years now. If this is what Alliance want to foist on consumers they can bugger off, for all I care. Let the engineers and managers, who are responsible for this rubbish, keep it. I bet they won't put this trash in their own homes.

Post# 992954 , Reply# 69   5/3/2018 at 10:52 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Reply #66

combo52's profile picture
Keith, really are you that poorly informed about how this MT washer operates ?

This washer is in the pre-soak period of a long cycle, the machine WILL speed up and turn over this load and wash it very well, if you want to make a point without embarrassing yourself you should compare apples to apples and not a soak period to a wash agitation period.

John L.


Post# 992957 , Reply# 70   5/3/2018 at 11:24 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Thanks John, for clearing that up.
My parents have a 765 MT TL.
They follow all the cycle and loading guides.
Everything comes out clean. Much cleaner than the old LA511 Maytag it replaced.

That video was less than 2min of a very long, heavy cycle. It was in active soak.
Like you said, the cycles have moments of very long, aggressive agitation arcs, that DO turn over the clothes.

My parents have washed everything in it so far.
Rags, towels, all their clothes, even comforters.
And with the right soil/temp/soap combinations, everything comes out clean.

Do you know what the real secret is in what they do?
They set it, load it, and WALK AWAY until the chime rings.


Post# 992979 , Reply# 71   5/3/2018 at 16:03 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

They set it, load it, and WALK AWAY until the chime rings.

 

What's the fun of doing that with a washing machine?!?

 

 


Post# 992980 , Reply# 72   5/3/2018 at 16:03 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

Lord Kenmore, being either a washer enthusiast or a control freak, regularly checks the washer to ensure all is well. During wash, does it appear that there is enough detergent? Does it appear that everything is turning over properly? Is everything under water? (The first two times are probably not necessary--one learns from experience what works. The last item, however, was all too necessary with some loads during that horrible time when Lord Kenmore's manor was equipped with a WCI Frigidaire.) Lord Kenmore also goes back to check the deep rinse to ensure all is well, and to make that important decision of whether to authorize a second rinse.


Post# 992988 , Reply# 73   5/3/2018 at 17:04 by Infusor (Usa)        

So you compare an hour and 20 min soak cycle to a 29 min normal eco cycle and deem the speed queen as junk, what was that about comparing apples now? Biased much.

Post# 992996 , Reply# 74   5/3/2018 at 17:57 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Keith, purchase a TR7 and use it for a few months. We look forward to your real-world review of how it compares in cleaning ability to the washer you're currently using.

Post# 992997 , Reply# 75   5/3/2018 at 18:05 by Infusor (Usa)        

I know a couple of people that have a TR7 and TR5, they said it cleans great, they love it.

Post# 993016 , Reply# 76   5/3/2018 at 21:16 by Infusor (Usa)        

A soak phase is supposed to be after some agitation to circulate detergent, NOT just after a fill. This is clearly the begining of the cycle. You can tell the clothes have not even been circulated, maybe YOU are the one that is poorly informed. Did you even read the owners comment about how poorly the machine performs not matter what cycle? Probably not.

Post# 993017 , Reply# 77   5/3/2018 at 21:33 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture

Hi Keith, You are clearly working for SQ or why is there no profile filled out on you?

 

If you want anyone to take any thing seriously that you say, say something about you, your appliances, maybe some pictures of your friends TR7 & TR5 actually washing a load of dirty laundry etc.


Post# 993018 , Reply# 78   5/3/2018 at 22:47 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Keith,

panthera's profile picture

Your opinions don't line up with virtually the entire, well respected group of high-end appliance repair and sales people.

Nor do they harmonize with every single independent testing organization.

Nor do they agree with actual users.

Why do you suppose that is?

 Or, to put it more succinctly - while it is certainly true that John (combo52) is nearly as cranky and irritable as I am, he is also one of the three most brilliant and informed people on this website. His diagnosis of the Speed Queen/Maytag problems has always been exactly right. If he says your full of hooey, you're full of hooey.

Come clean. Cleaner than your company's machines now wash - you're a plant and you're doing as bad a job of it changing reality as your machines now do washing clothes clean.




This post was last edited 05/04/2018 at 04:24
Post# 993032 , Reply# 79   5/4/2018 at 05:43 by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
With John and Panthera on this....

mayfan69's profile picture
Keith,

I'm with John and Panthera on this one.

Until such a time that you can show evidence of how good this Speed Queen cleans (in your opinion) such as getting your friends to show us some before and after pics and / or video evidence like Eugene did, you are talking crap!




Post# 993039 , Reply# 80   5/4/2018 at 06:05 by Infusor (Usa)        

.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Infusor's LINK


Post# 993044 , Reply# 81   5/4/2018 at 07:55 by ryanm (New York)        

I have used the TR5 for the past few months. At first I thought it was doing ok, but over time and use I can say without doubt IT DOES NOT CLEAN the clothes no matter what we have tried. It is virtually the worst washer we have ever had. Even simple normal everyday dirt does not come out, white socks are black, dish towels stained, jeans and shirts with stains and if anything gets on them like food, it comes out with the food still on, you can see poor results on whites and colors. There is little to no turnover and stuff just sits on top and never gets dragged down no matter how many pieces of clothing are in the wash, and for heavier clothing like jeans and fleece shirts etc. forget it, they just don't wash at all just go back and forth with the tub. We have used the best detergents, tried loading less in a load, everything you can think of, and I am sorry to say it is a tremendous failure and after using this machine for several months no one could ever convince me that this wash system could work. I have never seen this poor cleaning results with any other machine we have had. It is the worst waste of money I ever spent. I am going to replace this machine soon. In this case the REVIEWS are CORRECT..... plain and simple, and I cannot believe a company like SQ could actually put out a machine that is such a total failure in cleaning.

Post# 993048 , Reply# 82   5/4/2018 at 08:29 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
In response to Post# 993039 , Reply# 80

panthera's profile picture

Seriously?

You can clean wet earth off of denim under gently flowing water.

Come on, dude - you're not making the case for your product, here, at all.


Post# 993055 , Reply# 83   5/4/2018 at 09:47 by runematic (southcentral pa)        

runematic's profile picture

We've sold quite a number of the MVWB766 model and have not received 1 complaint.  NOT 1.  I have heard from some very satisfied customers though.


Post# 993060 , Reply# 84   5/4/2018 at 10:11 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

iowabear's profile picture

Those large capacity TL Maytags are nice looking machines.  The one-piece corkscrew agitator seems silly though.


Post# 993083 , Reply# 85   5/4/2018 at 14:45 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
At least 99% of Autowasher.org is informative & fun...

twintubdexter's profile picture

One thing's for certain, posts about Speed Queen seem to be the new winners when it comes to the number of replies, followed closely by "who makes the best car" and "let's all stick pins in the Sears voodoo doll".  I'm not a fan of any replies that get nasty. 

 

got pins?


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Post# 993091 , Reply# 86   5/4/2018 at 16:06 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
dirt spreader

I would never wash my clothes with this dirt spreader of a machine! My Kenmore Elite front loader by LG cleans better than this!

Post# 993105 , Reply# 87   5/4/2018 at 19:09 by Infusor (Usa)        

Jerome are you talking about the maytag or speed queen? I thought you liked the new speed queen. They have tweaked the agitation since it came out.

Post# 993106 , Reply# 88   5/4/2018 at 19:14 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
They have tweaked the agitation?

Do you have any evidence/ documentation to back that up?

Post# 993115 , Reply# 89   5/4/2018 at 22:31 by Infusor (Usa)        

Not what people who are buying these machines are saying.

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Post# 993117 , Reply# 90   5/4/2018 at 22:37 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Do you have any first hand experience with the new speed queen? Are you really basing your entire argument on a handful of YouTube comments?

Post# 993121 , Reply# 91   5/4/2018 at 23:27 by Infusor (Usa)        



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Post# 993122 , Reply# 92   5/4/2018 at 23:52 by Infusor (Usa)        

Yes, because real world reviews videos and peoples experiences don't mean jack right? Just figured i'd throw it out there that people are not hating these machines like you think. Let you be the judge. I hated this machine too when i saw your video, i despised it, as more videos came out i saw that it is actually not a bad machine. In comparison to a new cabrio this thing is way better. As good as the maytag commercial cleaning wise? Probably not. But the maytag is very rough on clothes, by the way, i am going to purchase a TR3, and trust me, if it is not up to my standards it is going back, (im asking about a return policy before i buy) i will let the group know how it does, i currently have an LG front load with turbowash, 4.3 capacity, it is 5 years old.

Post# 993159 , Reply# 93   5/5/2018 at 10:36 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture
They Have Tweaked The agitation since it came out ?

We are aware of no changes to this machine since it came out and if they did it needs to be offered to existing owners.

I think many people may like this washer at first, but like the owner in reply #81 I am afraid that many people will realize over time that things are just not as clean as they were with their old washer.


Post# 993169 , Reply# 94   5/5/2018 at 11:43 by Infusor (Usa)        

Yes, a fellow aw.org member, analyzed eugenes videos against kirk rivas videos with a device (i forget the name) and he confirmed the wash strokes are in fact faster on kirks machine.

Post# 993177 , Reply# 95   5/5/2018 at 13:21 by Stopmeister72 (Irving, TX)        
Flutetunes

stopmeister72's profile picture
Use flutetunes.com and set the metronome at 88 beats per minute. Looks like both machines oscillate on the long strokes at the same frequency.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Stopmeister72's LINK


  View Full Size
Post# 993191 , Reply# 96   5/5/2018 at 16:08 by Infusor (Usa)        

They might make the same amout of rotations per stroke but do it with more force. It's very obvious in watching kirks videos his machine is much more vigerous, he even washed 5 pairs of jeans and they moved alot, jeans are even stiffer than dickies AND kirk only used cold water which doesn't help eather. Alot of people comented and noticed a difference too. I'm not the only one.

Post# 993230 , Reply# 97   5/5/2018 at 21:21 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

You do realize that could just be a trick the camera is playing on you right? I bet if they both used the exact same camera you’d see the exact same thing. I personally don’t notice any difference.

Post# 993234 , Reply# 98   5/5/2018 at 22:03 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
what a shame...

What a shame. Speed Queen washers went the way of everybody else in terms of wash quality.

Post# 993253 , Reply# 99   5/6/2018 at 03:21 by sq9series (seattle)        

I personally prefer results from controlled tests using stained swatches versus anecdotal reviews from people taking videos of washing clothes. My 2017 SQ performed well on those controlled tests. I expect even better performance for my machine because those tests were done on the EPA cycle using cold water whereas I primarily use the heavy duty cycle with warm water.

Prior to CR and CNET's reviews, there were a bunch of videos produced by two different people with a totally different take on the machines. Both gave convincing accounts of the machines performance. I was open to the possibility that both reviews were correct and that one person may have had an early release model that was subsequently refined.

The most recent controlled tests have settled the issue for me. Based on those test results, I would not buy the new model if I was looking for a washer today. I am puzzled why consumers feel compelled to spend a grand on something that tests so poorly.


Post# 993272 , Reply# 100   5/6/2018 at 09:13 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
While I don't discount personal experience

panthera's profile picture

It's awfully hard to ignore when a professional testing organization gives one of their favorite brands a bad rating.

Back when CR had to give GE's Twenty-Five Hundred a higher rating than KitchenAid, they felt it necessary to write a detailed explanation. It was clear they really, really, really hated having to praise GE.

So, yeah - when two organizations which previously worshiped at the alter of the Speed Queen say the things their saying, it's clear:

This is a steaming pile of you know what.

Oh, and as to the cleaning some folks have experienced: With today's detergents, just soaking in water for 20 minutes can remove a fair amount of soil. Just, over time, the sebum and everything else will build up.


Post# 993273 , Reply# 101   5/6/2018 at 09:59 by Infusor (Usa)        

Still better than a cabrio.

Post# 993303 , Reply# 102   5/6/2018 at 15:02 by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Wishing and Hoping

I think a lot of us really want Speed Queen to make the new washers better. We really liked the washers through 2017. We are just sad that we have been let down.

Post# 993305 , Reply# 103   5/6/2018 at 15:11 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I personally prefer results from controlled tests using stained swatches versus anecdotal reviews from people taking videos of washing clothes.

 

It's worth noting that at least one video (which was done by Lorainfurniture) does do what I consider a reasonable controlled test. It may actually be better than some tests in that it does two rounds with different temperature/detergent each time. Thus the results reflect the washer, and not any possibility of: "well, maybe this one detergent doesn't work so well in this machine!"

 





Post# 993312 , Reply# 104   5/6/2018 at 15:54 by sq9series (seattle)        

The ketchup test on white towels appears to have been done very well. As I mentioned, both testers were convincing leading me to believe that LF's machine may have not been up to the final release specifications. LF's machine visually appears to me to have weaker agitation. The two new controlled tests indicate that the new SQ washer cleans specific stains poorly and I wouldn't buy it because at some point, most of my items will get a tough stain.

Post# 993315 , Reply# 105   5/6/2018 at 16:38 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I wouldn't buy it because at some point, most of my items will get a tough stain.

 

That's my feeling, too.

 

There has been some arguments along the lines that many people don't really need much cleaning power for their typical laundry. I'm like that--most of what I need is freshening. But I do have the occasional item that has a stain that want totally and completely gone. Indeed, I was reminded of one shirt that I wore to an event a couple of years ago that got a bad stain on it. It was a nightmare getting it clean using Tide (although it was Tide Free and Gentle, which probably is not the most powerful version), and a reasonably decent WP DD. I ended up washing it more than once, and air drying on wood rack to avoid setting the stain. But it did come clean in the end. With that 2018 SQ, I might still be trying to get the stain out...


Post# 993328 , Reply# 106   5/6/2018 at 18:58 by rapunzel (Sydney)        

The vast majority of modern washing machines are capable of removing most stains these days. Over the past 50 years there hasn't been that dramatic a departure from the fundamental designs on which both top and front loaders are based. Modern manufacturers know what designs work best. When consumers put their clothes into a washing machine now and they pick a cycle that is appropriate for the kind of wash they are doing, they can generally expect reasonable and consistent outcomes. Mostly, if any type of modern machine underperforms, the issue originates with the user. However, in this case Speed Queen have designed a washer that has put the guesswork back into doing laundry.

Why would anyone even begin to entertain this absurd idea that Speed Queen have intentionally designed their latest washer for only very lightly soiled clothes? Or, maybe, this washing machine works best if consumers throw in detergent and a prayer? Amen!




This post was last edited 05/07/2018 at 01:07
Post# 993359 , Reply# 107   5/7/2018 at 02:07 by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

I am not sure I understand why the test wasn't done with a hot wash.


Post# 993370 , Reply# 108   5/7/2018 at 06:41 by John76 (USA)        

If they would have treated the stain strip like how most normal people wash a stained item, the stain strip would have likely come clean. No fun though, if the goal is to trash the machine doing the washing. Like golf, it’s the golfer and not the club to blame for a bad round.

Post# 993374 , Reply# 109   5/7/2018 at 07:11 by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
SQ has been the back of the class for decades --

gansky1's profile picture
"the golfer and not the club" - so true, love that, but it does seem that SQ has entered the PGA Tour with a bent club.

While most of us wouldn't have approached a stained fabric this way in daily washing practice, it is a reliable measure of a machine's ability to remove soil. All other variables controlled for, water quality, detergent brand and amount, incoming water temps, etc., I'm pretty confident that CR is giving each machine a level playing field and a fair shot. They have simply put the identically stained fabrics in each washer and pushed "start".

How each machine controls it's water temp could be a variable, some measure temperature directly, others may just be 60/40 mix of hot & cold for "warm", but this doesn't invalidate the testing procedure, only measuring the washer's ability to produce results as the machine is designed.

Speed Queen has rarely had more than an average rating from CR testing, going back decades. In the 70's, they were dinged for small capacity, average or below cleaning results and poor spin performance. In the 80's many of the same problems were found but with the perforated basket. CR didn't care for their front-load models early on and results only improved slightly with the change in cycle length in the second iteration of f/l washers with the larger door. While cleaning improved some, they were hit with a narrow range of cycle options and inflexible settings as well as poorer spin results when held up against machines that were spinning above 800 rpm. The top loaders have been maligned in recent years for below average (of all the machines they test) in cleaning and again, capacity and extraction ability. Apples to apples comparisons have never been shining moments for SQ, and they aren't now, obviously.

For those who wanted the "old school" washer with a full tub of water and an agitator, those low CR ratings meant little vs. their expectations and results. The same is true with this new washer, there will be some who get the results they expect and those who do not in the varying ways they utilize the washer.

I love my small-door SQ front load washer and get great results load after load despite CR's findings. Real-world laundry isn't in a lab, it's in a basement or laundry room and YMMV.


Post# 993381 , Reply# 110   5/7/2018 at 08:48 by gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Au)        

In a reasonably recent Choice test, one of the "good old" Speed queens was one of the worst washers tested, with dirt removal rated at 54%. Miele had the highest rated for dirt removal at 86%. Others rated over 80% dirt removal included Asko, Beko, LG, Samsung, Bosch and F&P front loaders. The worst front loader for dirt removal was 72%. The best top loader was LG at 75%. Most top loaders by F&P, LG, Samsung, Haier, Simpson got over 60%. Only a Panasonic and an LG were worse than the Speed queen, the LG was the top loader component of a 2-in-1 TL/FL where the TL component got only 24% for dirt removal, an abysmal score.
This was the "old school" Speed Queen, imagine how bad the newer version would be? (They aren't sold here yet.) These scores are all just dirt removal, not overall scores, though the SQ was third worst overall out of 73 washing machines tested.


Post# 993390 , Reply# 111   5/7/2018 at 10:08 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

iowabear's profile picture

I think the swatch tests are valid and interesting but hard to know how it compares to ordinary laundry problems (gray white socks, sweat stained sheets, ring-around-the-collar, anti-antiperspirant build up) that show up on fabrics over time.

 

Can't imagine new SQ would fare well on these either.  A top loader as gentle as the SQ just isn't going to cut it.  FLs do well because their detergent is concentrated and the cycle times are long. 

 

You can't have you cake and eat it too like the new SQ tried to do.

 

 


Post# 993391 , Reply# 112   5/7/2018 at 10:08 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
A possible factor in performance of frontloaders and HE/impeller toploaders vs. deep-fill toploaders like the 2018 SQ:  assuming they're washing only the one stained test-swatch piece in the test load for stain removal, the FL and HE TLs will reasonably do better due to more agitation friction.  The piece will just float around in the SQ TL, although that also is what a load of multiple items tends to do depending on the size of the load vs. the water level.  Underloading the SQ makes for more floating and less "grab" and slosh from the agitator.


Post# 993423 , Reply# 113   5/7/2018 at 14:49 by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

whatsername's profile picture
Throwing just one test swatch in a machine and running it wouldn't be scientifically rigorous. Reviewed.com, for example, uses an 8 pound test load in all of its washer tests. The video in this link seems to indicate they add clean towels as the majority of the test load.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO whatsername's LINK


Post# 993444 , Reply# 114   5/7/2018 at 18:06 by jeb (Mansfield Ohiio)        

Reply to #108. If you pretreat the stain, you are not testing the washer you are testing the pretreat product. I think the idea is to prove how well the washer does on its own (showing how much less pretreatment will be needed).

Post# 993453 , Reply# 115   5/7/2018 at 19:19 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

twintubdexter's profile picture

Perhaps Speed Queen will redesign the machine and leave the agitator out, after all, it really doesn't do much of anything but take up space. I think that's one of the major disappointments about this machine...you recognize the agitator and know what it's supposed to do, but it doesn't.


Post# 993464 , Reply# 116   5/7/2018 at 20:39 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
One side note

Recall the 4 factors of laundering and cleanliness: 1. temperature 2. time 3. mechanical action 4. chemical action.
When CR used Heavy Duty instead of Normal, the cleaning score went up just a bit. This heavy duty cycle should have used at least 20*F warmer water, a longer wash time, and hopefully the same detergent and amount for consistency. The small increase is likely due to the warmer water, better enzyme activity, and slightly more wash time. The single speed 720 degree arc is not powerful enough to really remove soils. I agree with DADoES that the tests were not performed in the best manner, and should be performed with other clothes in the load. However, CR and CNET did this and had poor results that align with those portrayed by Kirk and Eugene. Bash the Whirlpool Cabrio all you want, but they have consistently rated higher in all review tests that I have witnessed so far. The Immersion Care washer did use an incredibly long wash time, and so did the Neptune TL, which both scored very high in CR testing at the cost of gentleness. SQ might need to add major amounts of wash time to these machines in order to be competitive.


Post# 993662 , Reply# 117   5/9/2018 at 18:11 by Infusor (Usa)        

The fisher and paykel agitator model only recieved "fair" for stain removal and has a cycle time of 55 min (5 min longer than speed queens heavy duty) which is comparable to speed queens results, why isn't anybody slamming fisher and paykel?

Post# 993690 , Reply# 118   5/9/2018 at 22:00 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

I think fp is a turd from a repair standpoint. I’ve never done my laundry in one yet.

Post# 993691 , Reply# 119   5/9/2018 at 22:08 by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

I'm curious about the Why on that Eugene, at least from the Washer's perspective?

Is it that parts are hard to get in the US?

They're one of the few machines you can almost fully rebuild with a Phillips head screwdriver and a pair of pliers, so I'm just curious.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 993694 , Reply# 120   5/9/2018 at 22:18 by henene4 (Germany)        

Yeah, they do have their quirks when they break down, but anybody who has the ability to troubleshoot a Windows PC and the mechanical skill to put up IKEA furniture can work on a F&P machine.

They have verry few parts that break, they are easy to diagnose and easy to replace. Personally maybe a 2 pump setup would have been better then the valve setup, but even that is just a simple 3-way-valve.


Anythings else is: Unscrew, unplugg, exchange, screw back in, run test.


Post# 993699 , Reply# 121   5/10/2018 at 00:31 by Infusor (Usa)        

I think FP machines are great by the way. I'm just making a point of how the new speed queen performs on par with an agitator FP washer. Yes the cabrio ONLY gets one grade higher at "good" but the cycle is an hour and 20 minutes, and it only scores fair for gentleness. No doubt in my mind if speed queen did a 60 min cycle it would get great results. I do not think washing action is the issue, if it was then why does the best performing agitator washer only get an average score for cleaning? According to CR they do not perform well. I have a top performing lg, does it remove stains well? Yes, bit it uses so little water, my whites are getting dingy from re deposit for low water usage, yes i use tide powder and oxygen bleach along with extra rinse and sanitary cycle too.

Post# 993701 , Reply# 122   5/10/2018 at 01:35 by henene4 (Germany)        
do a 60min cycle

Well, they heavy duty cycle the tested after the disappointing normal cycle was something close to 60 min, so...

Post# 993712 , Reply# 123   5/10/2018 at 06:42 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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I think the cleaning ability of the FP can be diminished because it only fills with cold water, except on the Allergy cycle. Other cycles use the recirculation pump before filling completely and that saturates the items with the selected water temp and detergent. They claim it aids in stain removal. It makes me fell better but that's subjective I guess. Also there is no soil level selector so you have to use the Heavy Duty cycle if you want a longer wash time. I use Allergy for my whites because it fills with selected temp, and it's not a dumbed down temp. Overall I'm very happy with it. Granted my stuff doesn't get really dirty, but when it has, everything has come out very clean.

Post# 993786 , Reply# 124   5/10/2018 at 14:49 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Previous F&P models have selectable wash time, 3 to 15 mins.  Want to make it really long?  Add the 2-hr soak option!

Unfortunate they dropped the Intuitive model from the U.S. market, it's hugely versatile.


Post# 994511 , Reply# 125   5/18/2018 at 07:27 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        
Speaking of F&P

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What the heck is up with the current pricing?!? I paid $799 for my machine last November and they are now selling for $1399-1699! That was from the local store I bought mine at and also online. The dryers are still the old price. I'm thinking it has something to do with tariffs? The dryers are made by GE either in KY or Mexico, so they might be exempt.

Post# 994536 , Reply# 126   5/18/2018 at 13:03 by Whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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It's definitely the tariffs, which can be "up to 50 percent". LG also raised prices. The tariff seems to be on washers only and not dryers.

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Post# 994593 , Reply# 127   5/19/2018 at 01:06 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

At how many FP machines I have seen in the scrap appliance dumpster at the dump site I go to-think I WON'T buy a FP machine of any sort.

Post# 994598 , Reply# 128   5/19/2018 at 03:38 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

If SQ gets rid of the agitator, puts two vanes in the drum wall and agitate with short and fast strokes, it will clean way better.






Post# 994604 , Reply# 129   5/19/2018 at 06:16 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Cool,and WOW-that is MUCH better than the present SQ machine.Lots of action there-and the clothes should get clean in less time.You will need your raincoat to watch this machine.I would buy this over the present newer SQ washer.With the action in that washer-the wash time would be shorter.Thus faster cycle times.

Post# 994617 , Reply# 130   5/19/2018 at 10:11 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture

At how many FP machines I have seen in the scrap appliance dumpster at the dump site I go to-think I WON'T buy a FP machine of any sort.

 

From what I've seen they generally last about 12-15 years without a problem. I know Glenn has had is for what, like 20 years?? They are very simple machines in terms of parts. My friend's parents have had theirs for almost 10 years with no problems. They love it. I really like mine now. It's a bit quirky to operate sometimes but it's a good performer.


Post# 997759 , Reply# 131   6/19/2018 at 18:06 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

Why the big surprise? The new SQ can't clean - but neither could the old one. As for Combo52's laughable claim that the SQ front-loaders are the best in the world... only 1200rpm max spin at most, no heater, grumbly bearings, drums not deburred, noise from balance rings, shonky build quality... all I can say is he's clearly not spent any length of time with a Miele (proper one, not the US-only 27" junk) or comparable European front-loader (e.g. old 70s Bauknechts and Brockes, Nuremberg AEGs, Bosch/Siemens from the 60s up to the early 2000s, the old Italian Philco/Bendix/Crosley machines etc). My grandmother always had Italian Bendixes - bloody massive induction motors, vigorous wash action, 95c boil-washes, long cycles, four high-level rinses IIRC, they'd get mud, grit and stains out of anything, and they lasted forever.




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