Thread Number: 75386  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Ford To Abandon Most of Their Car Line
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Post# 992247   4/26/2018 at 19:58 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but this certainly took me by surprise! The only two cars in their line will be the Mustang and a crossover/sport version of the Focus. They're going to focus (no pun intended) on trucks and SUVs.

Every third car in this area is a Fusion (I drive one, too.) Apparently we were the only ones buying them.

money.cnn.com/2018/04/25/autos/fo...





Post# 992248 , Reply# 1   4/26/2018 at 20:02 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Yessir.. SUV's overtook cars in sales volume back in 2016 or was it 2017.. Didja know that the best selling vehicle in Canada isn't a car.. it's the Ford F150. Followed by the Honda Civic .

I don't know if I'd go back to a car now after a couple of years with the Forester.. Sometimes I miss my little Mazda3 and think, well I could get an Impreza STI or something fun.. but I dunno.. When my back goes out,, getting in and out of a car is painful. LOL.


Post# 992250 , Reply# 2   4/26/2018 at 20:17 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

I live in a rural area so trucks are everywhere, although I've noticed the Dodge Ram is gaining ground on the almost ubiquitous Ford F150/350 here in farm country. But...dropping the Fusion?! That surprises me. I guess I'm old school. I like a trunk.

Post# 992252 , Reply# 3   4/26/2018 at 20:25 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

ea56's profile picture
I wonder how long this experiment will last. Where I live there are a lot of people driving new Ford cars, mostly the Focus. But lately Iíve also been seeing new Fiestaís again too. Now the Taurus, hardly ever. Of course there are lots of their big trucks and SUVĒs too. But if they cease selling the Focus sedans, they better hope that the public really likes their new Focus hatchback, because other wise the buyers of the Focus sedan will probably buy Honda Accords or Toyota Camryís instead.

And I heard they are bringing back the Ford Ranger. I had an 02í Ranger that was a nice truck. But it had a govenor on it and you couldnít go over 93mph. I know, because once when we drove to LA on I-5 I tried to get around a big truck on the right and it sure did flat spot at 93! Fortunately, I was able to get around the truck, but I thought this was BS. Sometimes you may need to exceed 93 for a brief time and even though I wouldnít make a habit out of driving that fast, it can be necessary on occasion. The driver should have the option of using the full capacity of the engine.

Eddie


Post# 992253 , Reply# 4   4/26/2018 at 20:41 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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I'm strangely both surprised and not surprised by this...

 

I'm not surprised since SUVs seem to be so popular. But, at the same time, I guess I'm a bit surprised because there still would seem to be a market for cars. I, for example, would be far more likely to buy a car than a SUV. (Although my opinion probably doesn't matter to Ford since I'm unlikely to buy a new vehicle!) I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

I just wonder how this will work out for Ford. It might make sense now, with current sales, but things have a way of changing. At some point, people might decide they are tired of driving SUVs, and decide they want smaller cars again. Maybe gas prices will sharply spike, and, again, people will want a smaller car. But if Ford is out of the car business, they could face troublesome times as they adapt--or try to adapt.

 


Post# 992255 , Reply# 5   4/26/2018 at 21:10 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
I abandoned Ford after the crap 1989 Pinto I bought and their warranty had all these exclusions and at less than 12K had major problems, sorry, its all excluded. My great uncle owned the original Ford dealership and my whole family had to own Fords or we walked. I will never own a Ford again after the way they treated me. Their "brand" supposedly sells the most. But all the "brands" by GM far outsell them. A friend had to buy an F-150 last year and has had nothing but headaches since day one. My Silverado is 5 years old in June and regular maintenance is all I have done.

Post# 992257 , Reply# 6   4/26/2018 at 21:32 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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I was surprised by this too. I thought the Fusion especially is a great selling car and the current generation of Ford sedans seem very good. I don't see as many Taurus or Fiesta but I think that's probably just because the midsize will sell more than the subcompact and full size.

Honestly I think this is a "bold" but dumb move for them. I forsee them bringing back sedans a few years in the future and not admitting that they messed up.

It would be nice if the Ranger comes back. I think Ford's issue with them was they didn't update them much after the early 90s. I mean, the last ones here were basically the same as the 80s and 90s models.

Really I like Ford's cars better than their trucks or SUVS. I guess their SUVs are ok, but I'd rather have a Chevy than a Ford, but it's probably just the styling. I actually preferred the older Chevy styling to the current crop they sell...

I drive an old Malibu and I don't even know what kind of vehicle I'd buy to replace it. Sometimes I want something bigger but a truck seems too big in a way... I like the Taurus, but the mileage I'm sure isn't as good as I'm getting now. Kind of like the Kia and Hyundai sedans too, seems the public perception of them is still mixed. A minivan I could like too, but then there's the "you drive a minivan, ewww!" Who cares.


Post# 992270 , Reply# 7   4/27/2018 at 01:29 by RP2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        
Some splainin' to do . . .

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A 1989 Pinto???? 


Post# 992273 , Reply# 8   4/27/2018 at 04:22 by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        
Pinto

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Yeah, the last Pinto was about 1980 or so.

Post# 992276 , Reply# 9   4/27/2018 at 05:19 by Sudslock1 (St Louis)        
Mercury

Remember they still have Lincoln and perhaps this might be a good reason to bring back Mercury. Ford would be their utility line up of Trucks and SUVís and the Mustang. Mercury would have a few Sedans and a coupe or two and then have Lincoln as the luxury name plate. Might be something to think about.

Post# 992279 , Reply# 10   4/27/2018 at 05:58 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
My stepson

is a Ford employee. He told us months ago the Taurus wasn't selling, and was headed to be discontinued. It used to be a middle class car, but the latest was too expensive. That's the same reason Mercury, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile are also gone.
Like it or not, today, we have more wealthy, more poorer, and fewer of us in the middle.
Competition from Asian cars has also been a factor that was a smaller piece of the markets pie 20 to 30 years ago. Also, well heeled buyers can now afford an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc.
The Ford Flex, and Explorer are built on the same platform as the Taurus, and the Edge on the same as the Fusion. I was surprised to learn the Fusion is also going to be phased out over the next 3 years. It's built in Mexico. Could it be because of a new tariff?
Anywho, the new Ford Eco Sport is from India, and priced the same as the Focus based Escape. I bet it won't do any better in crash tests either.
If gas gets too much higher, Ford may need more mid size and compact sedans in the line up. China and India may then be the source.
The public has no say other than not to lease or buy. Most yawn and do it anyway. The roads are so bad, and some are closed for re construction.
I drive a chuck hole puddle jumper for daily point a to b trips.
If there is a meet or show I want to go to, then the '77 V8 Luxo barge comes out.


Post# 992281 , Reply# 11   4/27/2018 at 07:52 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        

Couldn't care less.
Old Henry was a Jew-hating bastard anyway. He bought a newspaper during the great depression for the express purpose of "introducing" rural Americans to the "evil Jews". Hired a nazi journalist and imported him to Dearborn where he spewed his Jew-hated for over TEN years to an audience who had, for the most part, never even met a Jew. Forced ALL Ford Dealers to include a copy of the Dearborn newspaper with every sale including all tractors and farm equipment or lose their franchise. Any wonder why American anti-semitism peaked in 1934. So, it is hard for some Americans to look at Ford products objectively. No one in my family would ever buy one.

The best truck I ever owned was a Dodge. If I wanted another truck I would buy another Dodge.
My favorite car, out of all the different ones I've had over the years is my Chrysler 300 Touring AWD.
If I had to go out and replace it tomorrow, I would buy another one. So, late in my life I have discovered a fondness and loyalty for Chrysler products over all others.

I have co-workers who love their little Fords, a Focus and a Taurus, and they never have a trouble with them. If they go to replace them they will have to turn to some other manufacturer. Ford's loss.


Post# 992283 , Reply# 12   4/27/2018 at 08:08 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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Oops, hit the wrong key. It was a 1979 Pinto.

Post# 992284 , Reply# 13   4/27/2018 at 08:30 by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
My Opinion

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Ford is making a mistake putting all their eggs in the Truck SUV basket.
Back a few years Chrysler, while under control of Daimler stuffed their lots with big hog Hemi V8s and Trucks. Then along came high gas prices again and they had nothing to offer in the economy line.

I find it difficult to understand that Toyota can have a number 1 seller in the Camry, Honda sells tons of the Civic and Accords, but Ford can't sell a Fusion or Taurus?

Still thinking Ford, and yes GM and Chrysler have always been short-sighted, focusing only on the next board of directors meeting with gigantic profits to show, instead of designing a safe, fuel efficient car that people will actually want.


Post# 992289 , Reply# 14   4/27/2018 at 09:51 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I read about this a couple days ago.† I love (thus far) my 2014 Fusion Hybrid.† It's the first Ford I've owned ... and apparently the last.† I've had anything but cars, no pick-up/trucks or SUVs.


Post# 992292 , Reply# 15   4/27/2018 at 10:50 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

I like my Fusion, as well. It was obviously a "fleet" car---4 cylinder 2.5 liter engine; no extras like a back-up camera (which is the one thing I wish it had).

My stepfather bought a 1975 LTD and sold me his '69 Delta 88. That Ford was horrible. It was in the shop frequently, had two wiring fires, and was generally a piece of crap. I hated the ultra-light feel of the power steering---or more precisely, a lack of feel in the steering.

That gorgeous Delta 88, on the other hand, was an awesome car! Kept it through college.


Post# 992295 , Reply# 16   4/27/2018 at 11:06 by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Only trouble is

So, if you want a sedan you might go to Toyota. They have several nice cars and they all have Toyota Sense for safety. You may buy one and realize the quality and reliability are really nice. Then when you look for an SUV or Truck maybe you will just go back to Toyota.

I have a 2008 Ford F150 truck and a 2014 Mustang. I really like both of them. But who knows when I go to shop. I looked at the Taurus and really liked it, old style but luxurious. Also drove a recent Fusion and that was nice too.

Toyota has the Safety Sense and Honda Accord has a similar system on all of its models. Ford makes you pay for a premium model and charges extra for its safety systems.


Post# 992300 , Reply# 17   4/27/2018 at 13:56 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Not to worry, Pinto, etc. Mrs, Dodge and Mrs. Ford

were friends. They did many benefits together. Henry's name was on the publication true, but he was not the writer. It was for tax purposes. The authors were none other than Dearborn's Mayor Hubbard, and his team of bigots. Also note that blacks were forbidden to live there even though many worked for Ford. So they settled Inkster, to the west. Google the Motown song "My baby must be a magician". The group was form Inkster. When you are from here, you learn a lot, unless you're Taylor white trash or ignorant. Steven, I worked for a Jewish owned company, Borman's Inc. supermarkets. Paul Borman drove a Lincoln. Nice man.
Bill Ford has something in the works. Ben, an Olds was hard to beat back then period. I wonder which plant your grand dads '75 LTD was built in. Two of my aunts had them, and loved them. Years of trouble free service. Poor mans Lincoln from '73 on, they were so heavy. Maybe the problem was how many plants built them. Oakville Ontario, Hapeville Ga., St. Louis, and Pico Rivera Ca., albeit mainly for the west coast market.
The 400 V8 from Windsor and or Cleveland did have a pre disposition for leaky valve seals in '73 and '74, at least.
The Pinto was derived from the Corcel, of Brazil, and built in St. Thomas, Ontario.


Post# 992303 , Reply# 18   4/27/2018 at 14:30 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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So, if you want a sedan you might go to Toyota. They have several nice cars and they all have Toyota Sense for safety. You may buy one and realize the quality and reliability are really nice. Then when you look for an SUV or Truck maybe you will just go back to Toyota.

 

Yes. And I think I've told this story here before. But my parents knew someone who bought a Japanese car about 1980 just because they wanted something with good gas mileage. Then, a few years later, they realized that the car had over 50,000 miles, and, unlike any Detroit car they'd owned, it still had all the original parts (apart from routine maintenance). And at that moment, they apparently said: "We're never buying from Detroit again!"

 

And I can see that happening to Ford once their customers are forced to look elsewhere for cars. Their quality is supposedly better than the 70s, but is it at the level of long term reliability of, say, Toyota?

 

Even if a loyal Ford buyer has been happy enough with the reliability, he or she might find something else to like about another maker's cars that becomes a selling point when he or she buys a new SUV...and it comes from the company that makes the small daily driver that Ford doesn't want to bother with.


Post# 992304 , Reply# 19   4/27/2018 at 15:02 by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Im going to drive

My 03 Grand Marquis until the wheels fall off, I love it, the absolute most comfortable car I ever owned.


Post# 992305 , Reply# 20   4/27/2018 at 15:03 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

John, that was exactly my experience. After 18 years of Ford ownership I bought a Highlander. With my Falcon I had 2-3 monthly visits to the dealership for electrical/ mechanical and body issues, all the way up until 2012. Once I got the Highlander I get it serviced every 6 months and usually itís routine maintenance. The only non routine part Iíve had replaced in 5.5 years is one CV boot.

Ford canít sell cars in Australia anymore either. They stopped building the Falcon because they couldnít sell it, but it was ok, the Mondeo would replace it and sell like hot cakes. It hasnít sold either and Ford has just been fined $10mil for how they responded to the mass failure of the gearboxes in the Fiesta, Focus, Eco Sport and Escape, plus now they also have to compensate all the owners that bought a defective car. The only car ford sells in volume here now is the Ranger. Nobody wants to touch much else that they sell. When they launched the Mustang here a couple of years ago, itís safety rating characterized it as death trap on wheels because ford didnít offer the same safety package it got in the US. What shouldíve been exciting has been universally panned. Exactly what Ford has been good at here ever since the AU Falcon, Taurus and Mondeo inflicted themselves on Australi in 1998


Post# 992306 , Reply# 21   4/27/2018 at 15:15 by newvista58 (Northern NJ)        
I ALSO READ......

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That Lincoln cars are to be dropped, as well.

 

Makes no sense, since they just introduced the "new"

Continental. 

 


Post# 992307 , Reply# 22   4/27/2018 at 15:15 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        
Mike,

Three of the best cars I ever owned were Lincolns. All in minty condition. A '68, '79, and an '87.
I was too young to research and understand what the old folks in my family knew. Especially my parents and the generation of the Great Depression. My generation and the generations that followed do not understand or they have never even heard of it. Many wouldn't even care.

Then I read a history. A book that took years of historical research. If you can find a copy and are even remotely interested in the history of Jews in America as well as Fords history, I highly recommend the book.
Now I understand.

"Henry Ford and the Jews" The Mass Production of Hate, by Neil Baldwin.
The book was printed in 2001 and 2003.


Post# 992311 , Reply# 23   4/27/2018 at 16:01 by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
Ford's decision...

firedome's profile picture
is incredibly shortsighted, but no doubt when gas hits $5 a gallon they will bring cars back... from China.

As to Henry's past idiocy, the FoMoCo. of then is not the FoMoCo. of now, and if they made the best cars or trucks for the buck, I'd buy one. Unfortunately right now they do not. Our only US made cars are vintage cars from the '50s and '60s, otherwise we've been very pleased with the various 4x4 SUVs from Japan we've had as drivers here in the North Country for the last 20 years... no cars, thanks, of whatever make.


Post# 992318 , Reply# 24   4/27/2018 at 19:01 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Lincoln

will not be phased out. That would be suicide. Maybe the MKZ will be gone, as it is Fusion based, and the MKS, which is Taurus based. But the MKC, and MKX, and MKT will not be. The new Continental shares it's platform with the Flex, Explorer and MKT.
No car is perfect. Toyota has as many recalls as the others.
Our son is involved in developing virtual designing, for this year at least.
There are many changes on the horizon for the future, including more electric powered cars, and more rail mass transit.
Personal owned vehicles are becoming too costly for the average consumer to operate. Between payments, insurance, and upkeep.
There are and will be better ways to travel. Roads are also getting too costly to maintain. Modern concrete does not last, and the industry seems to be devoid of addressing that issue. Go on John Carlo, you roll in your grave, you crook. If the shoe fits any others, wear it.
Another, Mr. Rizzo was just sentenced to 5 years prison this week for contract bribes for his waste collection company he sold to Canadian Green Leaf 2 years ago. Corruption abounds. It disgusts me.


Post# 992320 , Reply# 25   4/27/2018 at 19:33 by surgilator1 (Atlanta, Georgia)        

I bought my mom brand new (heavily discounted) Lincoln continental. it was a nightmare of a car. once it was out of warranty. I went across the street to the Toyota dealership and bought her a camry. never again



Post# 992323 , Reply# 26   4/27/2018 at 19:38 by robbinsandmyers (Hamden CT)        

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As a VW, Mazda, Mercedes diesel driver I will not miss them. Although I did have fun with a Model A I had years ago, a REAL Ford. This just sounds like another bone headed move by Detroit. Like when gas hit $4.00+ a gallon several years ago for the first time and GM was pushing SUV's they couldnt give away even with factory employee dicounts and VW and Toyota couldnt build 50 MPG cars fast enough people were buying them so fast. As usual the Big 3 miss the plot.

Post# 992342 , Reply# 27   4/28/2018 at 00:50 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Iíve not been much of an SUV person for as far back as I can go. In my mind Iíve always put them in the same category as minivans...for families and soccer moms. Thereís a few SUVís around now that I like enough that Iíd own one, but I personally prefer sedans and pickup trucks. I had a Nissan Rogue before getting the Altima and going back to a sedan was like ďcoming homeĒ, much better handling and way more comfortable, plus tolerable MPG.

My experience with Ford goes back to a 2006 Mercury Milan my mom leased, which was on the Mazda 6 platform and used Mazdaís 2.3/5spd auto powertrain and it was an excellent car. Then she went to a 2010 Fusion with that wretched 6F35 transmission Ford developed with GM (for whatever reason GMís variant didnít have all the valve body issues Fords did), Ford wouldnít stand behind their product so that just kinda did it for them. OTOH, Iíve had a soft spot for Mazda ever since the CD3 platform first gen Fusion. As for Ford, I wonít miss them not selling sedans since I will now only buy Japanese and maybe German. Iíd only ever consider Ford for an F150, but with the bitter taste they left me with Iíd still look everywhere else first. I still think itís a stupid, shortsighted choice to axe sedans though.


Post# 992343 , Reply# 28   4/28/2018 at 01:22 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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In my mind I’ve always put them in the same category as minivans...for families and soccer moms.

 

On one level, I still think of them as something that people heavily into doing stuff outdoor buy to drive when they go camping in the middle of nowhere, go hunting, or to use to take their boat to the lake.

 

Of course, most buyers today are buying a SUV to be a family vehicle, and what outdoor stuff they do could be done just as easily if they had a Corolla. I guess my memory goes back to when I was young, and very few people seemed to have a SUV.


Post# 992346 , Reply# 29   4/28/2018 at 03:30 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

I just don't understand why Ford never released the Ka here.

I had all the generations and that tiny car is simply perfect!


Post# 992349 , Reply# 30   4/28/2018 at 06:03 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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As long as Cadillac makes sedans, Lincoln will too.  With all the good reviews the Conti has been receiving I don't see Ford axing it. 


Post# 992352 , Reply# 31   4/28/2018 at 06:33 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
To each their own of course.

A model T was a real car in it's day. An uncle was a metalurgist, Notre Dame and U Of Mi. graduate. Drove Plymouth's in the 50's, had one Chevy in 1964, a '69 Mercury Colony park, also a '69 Cougar XR7, then a '71. Was able to afford a Lincoln Town car in '73. Got a new one every two years there after. Having been a bit less satisfied with the front driven '92 Continental, he tried a Lexus. Traded it in after a year on a new Town car. Say what you want, Wixom turned out some fine cars in fact. Thunderbird's also, and the mark IV and V, through VIII.
Per pound for the dollar, you got a lot of car. 70's Cadillac's were cheesy inside. Lincolns were better. I bet more Chrysler Imperial buyers went with Lincoln when they were discontinued.
Now if they'd get a new tv commercial actor please. That Continental is gorgeous. Needs no Hollywood endorser. Probably drives a Bentley anyway.


Post# 992354 , Reply# 32   4/28/2018 at 07:27 by Xraytech (S.W. Pennsylvania, near Pittsb)        

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While I am not a huge fan of Ford products, just from preference from coming from
A very GM oriented family, and no Ford/Lincoln cars Iíve owned felt right to me.

I am saddened by this news, mostly because I prefer a sedan, and if possible a wagon, I hate the idea of eventually being forced into something I donít want, though I already accept the fact that Iíll own a SUV I donít want before I ever consider buying a foreign car or s Chrysler product.
I shall hold on to my 2004 Park Avenue as long as possible(truthfully the 97-05 Park Avenue and 00-05 LeSabre are the last time anything has been made I truly love driving)
I have recently been toying around with the idea of getting a Taurus SHO, I like the styling of it, and since the Chevy SS sedan was dropped makes it look more appealing.

I live in a rural area while there are plenty of trucks and suvs on the road, the Ford Fusion as well as Focus are very popular in this area. The Taurus isnít nearly as popular, as most people in that market here are choosing an Impala or LaCrosse.

Iím wondering how long itíll be before General Motors does something similar, as for the past 6 months Iíve heard rumor that by 2020 they will be phasing out the Spark, Sonic, Impala, LaCrosse, CT6, and XTS, thus leaving only mid-size sedans in their fleet.



Post# 992355 , Reply# 33   4/28/2018 at 07:41 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Sam, Fords other ventures, etc.

seems I recall you posted a photo of your almost new XTS.
Aside from lumbering in the UP for wood for station wagons, and rubber in Brazil for tires, Ford tried a D.C. electric railway. After a three year takeover of the railroads by the govt., he bought the DT&I railroad. The overhead catinary was carried by concrete arches. As of 1980, they were still there.
His electric locomotives ran from 1927 to 1930.


Post# 992356 , Reply# 34   4/28/2018 at 08:40 by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

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This sounds like a throwback to Henry Ford's thinking that the only car he needed to produce was the Model T.  What's next, his idea that any color is fine as long as it's black?

 


Post# 992359 , Reply# 35   4/28/2018 at 09:03 by kd12 (Arkansas)        

Should have moved the Fusion line to the US rather than discontinuing. Drove one at work for several years and loved it. Can't see any sense in killing that line. Need to bring the LTD and Country Squire back, since big vehicles seem to be in vogue again. Had a 1977 LTD Brougham with the big 460 and loved it. Most comfortable riding car ever, and surprising power for a low-compression engine.

Post# 992366 , Reply# 36   4/28/2018 at 10:24 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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The Taurus was the replacement for the Crown Victoria... used for Police cars as well. So I'm not surprised it was not a great seller, it's too big and expensive for the mainstream. Though I'm surprised on the Fusion being discontinued, the current model seemed very nice when it came out and they sell a lot.

Camrys are nice reliable cars, but they've always been too boring for me.

None of the newer cars appeal much to me either. I'd take a Taurus. The Impala looks nice, but I don't like the interior, too weird. I wouldn't mind having an older Town and Country or Grand Caravan, a 2007ish model with Stow N Go. Although Chrysler of that era wasn't their best hour for sure.


Post# 992367 , Reply# 37   4/28/2018 at 10:37 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Flat Rock Ford plant

is already tooled to run the Fusion. Some MKZ's are built there, if not a few Fusion hybrids. It's a large facility, and with Mazda gone, more capacity. The 626 and Probe were made there, now Mustang.
It opened in 1970 as the Michigan casting center, and the 460 V8 block was made there. So many narrow stacks, and no smoke, ever. First smog free foundry.
When the fuel crunch hit in '73, it was doomed. Sat idle until Mazda came in.


Post# 992368 , Reply# 38   4/28/2018 at 10:42 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
"black"

I'm surprised Hubbard didn't protest that it wasn't white. His platform for mayoral candidate was "keep Dearborn white". By then it was 1940, and colors had been available since the Model A.

Post# 992370 , Reply# 39   4/28/2018 at 12:12 by Xraytech (S.W. Pennsylvania, near Pittsb)        

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Vacerator,
You are correct I have a 2013 XTS that as time goes by I donít really care for driving it, and Iím beyond frustrated with constant issues with the panoramic sunroof. Itíll be time to send it on itís way soon, and Iíll just stick with the Park Avenue


Post# 992388 , Reply# 40   4/28/2018 at 15:22 by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
I will say

Comparing Ford products to Honda and Toyota, I really like the Ford interiors much better. Upholstery materials are more varied while Honda and Toyota are plain. Dashboard design is another area where I think Ford is outstanding. I like the arrangement and appearance of air outlets. I do not like the dashboard on the Camary, but I think it is a good car. Toyota currently has a terrible motif for the front of their cars, the grill is way too big and close to the ground. The bottom detail of those grilles looks like will break off.


Post# 992396 , Reply# 41   4/28/2018 at 16:19 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I just don't understand why Ford never released the Ka here.

I had all the generations and that tiny car is simply perfect!

 

I'm only guessing, but my guess is that "tiny car" is the reason. It's probably viewed as not profitable enough here, or something buyers don't want.

 

I remember hearing a claim that Henry Ford II felt that small cars mean small profits. That, of course, would have been many years ago...but that attitude may still be relevant.

 

 


Post# 992399 , Reply# 42   4/28/2018 at 16:25 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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Camrys are nice reliable cars, but they've always been too boring for me.

 

I've never owned a Toyota, but I have to say at a distance I'd personally view the entire line as "boring" and "reliable." Although it's a good match for what a lot of buyers want.


Post# 992415 , Reply# 43   4/28/2018 at 20:02 by Imperial70 (******)        
still want a fusion?

The mazda 6 is basically the same platform.

Post# 992441 , Reply# 44   4/29/2018 at 01:09 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

The Mazda 6 is way nicer at this point. The Fusion also hasnít been based off that since Ford switched to the CD4 platform for the 2013 model year.

Post# 992449 , Reply# 45   4/29/2018 at 04:38 by man114 (Buffalo)        
My grandpa worked at Ford

I get a discount. Our family owns just about anything they produced. They have not made a good solid car since the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car. They even had a news story locally where police were basically begging them to return because the other vehicles donít hold up in winter.

The F150? Iím on the third, all handmedowns from my grandpa with low mileage, he upgrades periodically. Complete junk. Same problems persist model year after model year. Iím trying to stretch the current one as long as possible. He even gave up and bought a Transit. This is with low mileage too my 2001 has 73k miles.

He was one of the first to buy a Focus, I think they let the local UAW local preorder them, and it was complete junk. He bought a Focus wagon as a replacement, complete junk, my dad has it now.

Tauruses have decreased in quality year over year. My wife has one of them now. Constant money pit.

Fusion? My grandpa gave me his because he couldnít see well out of the back, said it was uncomfortable. It is. Itís been more reliable but it is not a pleasure to drive.

Test drove a fiesta and it was worse than a Mitsubishi Mirage.

Canít blame them axing this junk. Revamp everything.

Iím not even hostile or biased, my grandpa isnít pleased with their current product after years of working there.

Theyíve always had terrible fuel economy and performance for engine displacement as well.

None of this is any great loss. Though I speculate Chinese made Focuses will be a reliability nightmare.



Post# 992450 , Reply# 46   4/29/2018 at 05:11 by potatochips (Nova Scotia)        

Im not too surprised. The writing is on the wall really, especially since the new Honda Accord isnt selling well. Its not a bad vehicle, it just wont sell, more people are interested in bigger cars. I see it here in Nova Scotia, not many cars on the road anymore.

 

The big marketing push for SUVs and crossovers. Most buyers dont know half the crossovers they bought dont have all wheel drive until you go way up in the trim levels but yet still feel better and safer in one.

 

A few years from now we will look back at this and think this wasnt ludicrous. I wonder whos next to drop cars? GM? Chrysler?

 

 


Post# 992451 , Reply# 47   4/29/2018 at 05:55 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Kevin (potato chips),

Chrysler dropped the Dart and 200 in 2016, and 2017. They only have the 300 now.

Post# 992452 , Reply# 48   4/29/2018 at 05:58 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
oh, and

Charger.

Post# 992468 , Reply# 49   4/29/2018 at 10:11 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

and Challenger


Post# 992482 , Reply# 50   4/29/2018 at 11:29 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Right Greg,

same platform, but not a sedan. Huge trunk for a sport coupe.
When GM moved the Camaro from the Zeta to the Theta platform, it got smaller.
Prior to, the Camaro was the coupe, and the SS was the sedan, both on the Holden Commodore platform.


Post# 992487 , Reply# 51   4/29/2018 at 12:10 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

iowabear's profile picture

I worked with a woman whose husband owned a Chrysler dealership and the one thing that surprised me was how loyal the customers were to the dealer.

 

They were sorry to see the Neon discontinued because as a dealership they wanted a full line of new cars and trucks so they could sell one to the family needing a cheap second car or the kid old enough to drive to school. 

 

If they had nothing to offer, that customer might go to another dealer and establish a relationship there.

 

I have never purchased a new car (or even a used car from a dealer) so this was surprising to me.  This is Iowa, maybe this dealer loyalty isn't as strong in other places.


Post# 992503 , Reply# 52   4/29/2018 at 14:42 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Speaking of people who don't know or think their SUV is AWD.... That's a friend of mine with his Santa Fe sport. He's been driving it now for almost 5 years and always thought it was AWD, it isn't. I said to him "did you go out to buy an SUV specifically because it was AWD" and he said yes but just assumed they all were. He's not very car savvy, no savvy at all really, so it's to be expected with him LOL.

Post# 992533 , Reply# 53   4/29/2018 at 18:04 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I'm not happy about "progress".  My current vehicle I bought new is a 2010 Mazda 5.  It is a small mini van that allows me to be a big higher up than a sedan but is still easy for me to get in and out of.  With the 3rd row seats down,  I have plenty of room to get my walker in.  I looked at "crossovers" when I was having to buy what I ended up with the Mazda 5.  Crossovers can be 2 inches higher and those two inches make a difference in terms of me getting in and out of driver's seat easily.  Not sure what I'm going to do if I ever have to replace it. 


Post# 993986 , Reply# 54   5/12/2018 at 13:13 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

Whatever happened to the big RWD American body-on-frame sedan? The Crown Vic seemed to be the last of that breed, but I've got a weird fetish (as a Brit!) for a Buick Roadmaster with the LT1 V8... especially in wagon form! Could they not build those off the truck chassis as just another cheap-to-engineer solution? And given most unibody sedans share their platforms with mid-sized crossovers, I'm surprised they can't sell enough for them to be profitable, especially Ford.

The Chrysler Sebring/200 was a miserable thing, though... they said they were going to revamp it as a RWD sports saloon to rival the Caddy ATS, but that never happened...

...maybe Ford could spin-off Mustang as its own standalone brand? It's not exactly festooned with blue ovals as it is, and a 4-door 'Stang might just sell better as an Audi/BMW rival...


Post# 993996 , Reply# 55   5/12/2018 at 14:28 by RevvinKevin (So. Cal.)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

Richard,

 

The large, RWD, full-frame, American cars went the way of the dinosaur / dodo, etc. 

  

Minimum fuel economy requirement mandates from the Gov were encroaching and the best way to achieve this, in addition to (eventually) saving $$ on production costs, was to replace those large, heavy car lines with smaller, lighter, uni-body, FWD cars.

 

Most of the replacements were nearly as big inside and they're also comfy, but they just don't ride the same as a heavy, full size, full frame, RWD car from the 1970's & 1980's.  However the Lincoln Clown Car... errr... Town Car... was damn close until it was discontinued. 

 

Kevin


Post# 993999 , Reply# 56   5/12/2018 at 14:55 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Partially true Kevin.

Actually, a unibody structure can be as heavy, or heavier than a body on frame vehicle. That was the case with Chryslers early unibody cars. Even the compact, Valiant and Lancers. They weighed considerably more than GM's body on frame designs from the era.
The real advantage was cost saving for front wheel drive. Also robotic welding.
GM slashed 800 pounds from full size cars in 1977, and 600 from intermediates in '78, while keeping the separate frame. It costs more to fabricate a frame. It entails not only welding, but folding, and in later decades, pressure forming with water or hydraulic fluid. So, with the cost to re tool for front wheel drive, it was less expensive to have robots weld the unitized space frame, and forget the extra full front to rear bumper rails, and cross members. Sub rails for unibody cars are usually only 3 dimensional, not 4, at least since the GM F body died. Front drive power train cradles are 4 dimensional, but smaller.
Range Rover's have been the exception, until last year. The Discovery and Sport versions were both unibody, and on a full perimeter frame. The Discovery or Sport may still be.
Not trying to sound like a know it all, but I knew a few engineers because of where I live and worked.


Post# 994000 , Reply# 57   5/12/2018 at 15:04 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
My grandparents always bought American cars, sedans and pickups. Their last two cars have been Honda SUV and crossovers. Much easier to get in and out of for them and space with the rear seats down.

I have a sedan now but don't know if I would want another or not. I'd love a crew cab truck but they're just too big and use too much gas! I'm also partial to minivans, but don't know I'd want to drive one every day.


Post# 994005 , Reply# 58   5/12/2018 at 16:08 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

The L405 Range Rover is an all-aluminium unibody... guess what? It's still upwards of 2.2 tons... unibody doesn't necessarily mean light!

And why are today's FWD barges bigger than the RWD ones they replaced? A Ford Mondeo/Fusion is now bigger than the old RWD Scorpio!


Post# 994020 , Reply# 59   5/12/2018 at 18:47 by kenwashesmonday (Haledon, NJ)        

Body-on-frame construction just can't do well in today's crash tests.

All Nash / Rambler / AMC cars went unibody for 1949.

All Chrysler / Plymouth / Dodge / Desoto cars, except the Imperial, went unibody for 1960. Imperial went to unibody construction for 1967.

It sure took GM and Ford quite a while to catch on.




Post# 994022 , Reply# 60   5/12/2018 at 19:19 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

speedqueen's profile picture
I disagree about crash safety. The Town Car was one of the safest cars tested when it was last tested by the IIHS. I think cheapness was the main factor.

Post# 994033 , Reply# 61   5/12/2018 at 21:37 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Chrysler Imperial, crash worthiness, etc;

The Imperial of the 70's fuselage body style era was very very heavy.
One thing lacking in body on frame construction like the old town car, crown vic., grand Marquis were crumple zones. Crumpleing absorbs impact inertia energy. They added some accordian creases to the front clip section, but a rigid frame just doesn't want to crumple. It's all about mass and rigidness. A frame is thick steel. Where a perimeter frame does do well is in the side T Bone impact.


Post# 994045 , Reply# 62   5/13/2018 at 03:28 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
"A Ford Mondeo/Fusion is now bigger than the old RWD Scorpio!"

Volkswagen and Opel did the same. The new Polo is bigger than the first Golf. If people are loyal to a certain model, they are forced to spend more and more money.


Post# 994053 , Reply# 63   5/13/2018 at 07:36 by kenwashesmonday (Haledon, NJ)        

The 2011 Lincoln Town Car got an overall "G" crash test rating. In comparison, the unibody mid-size 2006 Lincoln Zepher got an overall "A" rating. It appears that the crash test for the Town car was better than I expected it was after all. The safety improvements made for the new body style in 1998 must have something to do with this.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO kenwashesmonday's LINK




This post was last edited 05/13/2018 at 13:37
Post# 994055 , Reply# 64   5/13/2018 at 08:26 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Yes,

the cars always get a bit larger. It is decided years in advance. Otherwise, we'd just yawn and buy one anyway.
As for safety, air bag restraints have replaced the larger spaces once in larger cars. Even some of those are killers them selves. Thanks Takata!
TRW made good air bags, but one of their plants exploded near here, and they closed it in the 90's.
My '01 Bonneville had seat side air bags, and the space between the door and seat was wider than our Impalas are. That gives a bit more crash forgiveness, if only a bit. Impala's only had front side seat airbags through 2003. From 2006, only side curtain. Not sure about the latest generation. They help for head injuries, but not much for shoulder, and zero for torso and hip protection in a severe side impact. Severe is anything over 25 m.ph.
At least they do have inside door guard beams. GM has had them since the early 70's. I don't know if they were ever a federal requirement. Back up cameras are now though, as of last week. Thats good, and would not be another good de regualtion. Some older drivers have trouble turning to look behind. Others just won't. I see even drivers with NRA, and other bumper stickers that don't look behind them before backing up.


Post# 994189 , Reply# 65   5/14/2018 at 20:22 by Maytag85 (SoCal )        

It's kinda sad to see Ford get rid of a lot of vehicles in their lineup.

A lot of people might remember the thread Old cars vs New cars, and what Ford is doing might explain why I am more partial to older cars.


Post# 994198 , Reply# 66   5/14/2018 at 21:43 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Takata is now Chinese owned under the name Joyson Safety Systems.. My neph works for them in Armada MI.

Post# 994219 , Reply# 67   5/15/2018 at 03:44 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        
@LordKenmore

"I'm only guessing, but my guess is that "tiny car" is the reason. It's probably viewed as not profitable enough here, or something buyers don't want."

What about VW Beetle, Fiat 500, Mini Cooper and Scion iA?

I like the 500 a lot, I had one, the only problem is that tiny car is not my number at all.

On the other hand, the Ka is extremely compact, great for cities like Los Angeles or New York, and it is GIANT inside.

Of course it's not a car to make a long trip with the whole family and pets, but it is great for a very tall person (Like Kevin, for example) feel very comfortable in it, without that "I'm in a sardine can" feeling. and use the car for urban commuting.

Other car that would be very nice here is the Fiat Strada or VW Saveiro. It's a tiny pick up truck made on the same platform as the Fiat Palio or the VW Gol. The car is compact and consequently extremely efficient, easy to park (it fits everywhere) and the bed is big enough to fit two large  side by side fridges or two whirlpool dryers.

What doesn't make sense at all was when i was living in Dallas, those short women (almost midgets) driving huge RAMs or F-350 to go to the supermarket. Ok gas is cheap there but, do they really need to drive a car that makes "200 gal per mile" when they could easily drive a comfortable car that makes almost the same as a Toyota Prius and is much cheaper because it's not hybrid.

Room by room. I drive a Toyota Corolla and I feel like in a sardine can. Of course, the rear passengers in a Ford Ka must be midget or have no legs, otherwise the driver and front passenger will struggle, but most people I know (including my husband and I) are driving alone or with only one passenger.

The trunk is not huge, but far from being microscopic and if you flip the rear seat (and the Ka has a brilliant design) you have a monster trunk, comparable to any station wagon.

I know that because I took home a frigidaire affinity washer in it's original box and it fit in the Ka.


Post# 994231 , Reply# 68   5/15/2018 at 08:05 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Armada has a neat; and older Fords

out door flea market. Busier on weekends. My folks used to buy and sell there.
My dad got a genuine Indian blanket there, and a war of 1812 sabre and scabbard.
There is one like it in the Niagra on the lake museum near Ste. Catherines.
It says Wooley Deacon Dutton on it Birmingham England Improved steel.
As for older cars, in 1980, when the squared off T Bird and Cougar XR7 came out, I thought they were too small and ugly. But now, if you could even find a nice one, not the case. 302 V8 power, decent fuel economy, and comfort. Of course, I like the 79's better. Lorraine Ohio plant turned them out. Oakville also?
Some owners didn't like their LTD II's, but I did. The brougham was as nice as the former Elite. Both in the Thunderbird tradition. Same frame, same drive trains.
Began in '72 with the Gran Torino/Montego line.
Sure gave the GM A bodies a run for the competition.


Post# 994837 , Reply# 69   5/21/2018 at 16:39 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Face it: people need all wheel drive, or 4 wheel drive, tailgates as opposed to trunks, and perhaps something to rule the road, though more with at least some of the above, are more taking for granted what is STILL a privilege...

Leave it for other automakers to then what will eventually, or even suddenly, follow this trend...

With the lease ending on my current vehicle, a Chrysler 200, which is a 300-wannabe, I believe what my next vehicle's taking the form of, is ever in question...



-- Dave


Post# 994853 , Reply# 70   5/21/2018 at 18:55 by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

Saw a good one...the small cars are like an insurance policy for the car companies...they cost you a little in the good times, but in the bad times they pay off!


Post# 994856 , Reply# 71   5/21/2018 at 19:18 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
My mother's Pontiac minivan has side airbags on the seats, hers was the first year to have them as an option, in 1999. GM never had head curtain airbags in their minivans though.

If I was buying a new or used car, curtain airbags would probably be in the must have category, and preferably side airbags too.

Not to generalize, but I think a lot of times the big truck and SUVs get to the driver's head. I ended up in a rainstorm Saturday night on the way home from a trip to the gym. A pickup was barreling up behind me, so I switched lanes with my signal, but they didn't pay attention and switched lanes too and got right on my bumper, whipped into the slow lane to pass me and laid on their horn.

Then another one came barreling around me further along - same model and color!

Another one I thankfully haven't seen. Big red Dodge with high school sticker on the back window. One morning, I was driving and about to get into the turning lane, light was red. In the last few feet, he comes zooming over in front of me, to be first at the light.

Few weeks later, I see him behind me, I'm approaching same light, it turned yellow, so me and about 5 cars in front of me put the brakes on. He guns it and gets into the lane to go straight ahead, puts his turn signal on. When light turns green, he proceeds to turn left in front of everybody, totally illegal.

Not to mention all the weaving and speeding he does. Probably a gift truck from mommy and daddy, The (insert well known name).


Post# 994882 , Reply# 72   5/22/2018 at 04:46 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
My dad had a

'99 Montana. It served them well. Their final car. Windstar before that. Buick Electra Limited and Dodge van's before those.
The GM U body vans didn't fare so well in the NHSTA frontal crash tests. A pillar/Roof deformation, and footwell intrusion by the front wheel.
All wheel drive was one dollar extra per month on our new Edge, so we got it.
If it were only up to me, the Escape was fine. I'm not the taller one.
They had a really sharp Lightning blue Fusion on the showroom floor I also liked.
Too low to the ground for my spouse though.
Ford will bring back all electric sedans. The dealership already has at least 2 charging stations that I saw at the side near the front.
We don't tailgate, feel a need to rule the road, nor compensate for anatomical defficiencies. Our last brand new car was a 2008 Cobalt. The economy was bad then, and gas was $4 a gallon. We had two high schoolers still heading for college who both had to commute.
Now we are enjoying being empty nesters, and some niceties. We've worked very hard.
I still get up on the ladder and clean the gutters, then scrub them by hand with TSP. I've never been afraid to get my hands dirty. I bargain hunt for things for the house to save money.





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