Thread Number: 75647  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Water in KDS-18 Sump (Where's the filters?)
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Post# 994624   5/19/2018 at 11:34 by TL000 (L.A.)        

Greetings. Gosh I love this site. So I'm trying to use a KDS-18 that hadn't been started in almost 10 years. So far, basic functions that I've tested (haven't gotten to the detergent cups yet) are OK, except there is water collecting in the sump. I removed the lower spray arm (surprised to find that it lifts straight off -- learned that here!) and removed the course metal filter cage that surrounded the spindle. But there's still quite a bit of water that collects down there, and I don't understand where the main filters are. There's a blue ring around the spindle assembly that looks like it might be removable, but I don't want to tamper without more info. Any hints appreciated! Thanks so much!

Post# 994660 , Reply# 1   5/19/2018 at 19:29 by stevet (palm coast florida)        
That's all there is!

There is only the metal fine filter in the sump and there should be a removable blue coarse filter on the right hand side of the sump that clips on to that blue lower piece you mentioned.
There is always some water remaining in the sump that will work to keep the shaft seal lubricated. If there is more than maybe 1/4" of water then you should check the drain hose to be sure that it is not clogged or pinched.
Also, the drain hose should be a smooth walled hose and not the corrugated hose you see on newer machines. The drain time is not long enough to pump out all the water when using the corrugated hose. And it creates friction that slows down the water flow.

If you need a new hose, get it at any auto parts store. Ask for 5/8" heater hose and it will last you for years. Use the screw type clamps and you should be home free. The other problem may be that there is something caught in the drain valve. You would have to remove it to check it. I will email you the service manual for the machine under separate cover so you can familiarize yourself with the service end of the machine. I hope this helps.

Also, feel free to ask any and all questions here on this site. There are so many people who know all of these machines like the backs of their hands. We can all help you keep it going for many more years.

Post# 994664 , Reply# 2   5/19/2018 at 20:22 by TL000 (L.A.)        

Thanks Steve! I'll take another look and see how much water is actually collecting down there after my test runs. It's significant but may be under 1/4 inch. Or maybe not. Obviously it was completely dry before I started testing again since it had been sitting unused for so many years. At first I thought it wasn't starting up at all and then I realized that I had to give the door a good shove to seat it so that the door switch would engage. Then I remembered it was always like that from when it was being used before that long period of non-use. That's probably something I'd like to fix if a lot of disassembly isn't involved, but since it starts up if I push the door in harder that's a viable workaround for the moment. I think on general principles if I can figure out how to get the coarse filter out I'd like to do so to try clean it off, considering how long the machine has been sitting and how long it was likely used without that filter being cleaned at all. If I can't figure out how to get the course filter out I'll be back. Thanks again! Super site!

Post# 996950 , Reply# 3   6/12/2018 at 10:59 by TL000 (L.A.)        
Success -- then FAILURE!

So after a few Normal runs that seemed OK (at least the detergent doors opened and I've been eating and drinking from those dishes from the unit since they seemed reasonably clean without noticeable detergent residue I hope), a dramatic failure. As always, the door has to be pushed firmly in to start the unit. When using rinse hold, the rinse hold light comes on afterwards as long as the handle is open.

Anyway ...

Ran a normal wash last night. I thought something didn't sound right (I didn't hear water draining out) but went to bed while it was running. This morning it's clear lots went wrong. Left detergent cup was closed and still full of detergent. Right cup was open and a clumpy white mass of detergent in there that looks like it got a bit wet but not enough for most of it to leave the cup.

I cleaned out the right cup. Then I opened the left cup manually and ran a couple of rinse holds. They seemed to run OK -- there was water inside when I checked during the runs and I could hear it drain out. But afterwards the detergent from the left cup was all clumped up the same way the right one had been.

So I'm at a loss. Thanks as always!

Post# 997009 , Reply# 4   6/12/2018 at 20:02 by barcoboy (Canada)        

barcoboy's profile picture
The first thing to check is the water level in the tank. The water level should come up over top of the outer edge of the metal filter. Start a Normal cycle, and then after filling stops, open the door and check the level. The first two fills are not full timer interval fills, but the 3rd fill is a full 90 seconds, so the water level after that fill should be higher than the first two, and definitely over the top of the outer edge of the metal filter. If it isn't, then you might need a new fill valve.

This could also explain why the detergent doors aren't opening all the time. The timer sends power to the motor for one timer interval through each bi-metal, and the current passing through them causes them to heat and bend, which opens the door. If the water level in the tank isn't high enough, the motor doesn't have to work as hard to pump the water around, so not as much current gets pulled through the bi-metals, and they don't heat enough to bend and open the door.

Post# 997089 , Reply# 5   6/13/2018 at 21:33 by TL000 (L.A.)        

I'll run this test and see what happens. Thanks!

Post# 997110 , Reply# 6   6/14/2018 at 06:11 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Water Levels In A KDS-18 DW

combo52's profile picture

After the cycle you should not have more than 1/4" of water in the bottom of the sump area.


When fully filled for a wash or rinse you should have around 1/2" over the entire bottom of the DW all the way into the corners of the tank, as mentioned before most common problem if you are not getting enough water is a bad inlet valve.


John L.

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