Thread Number: 75899  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Introducing The AEG 46200 TopLader
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Post# 997412   6/17/2018 at 10:06 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Spent yesterday evening sorting out the latest addition to the family.

After a good going over with some vintage NOS Jubilee polish (hint, best not to do this in enclosed quarters with air conditioning going), can now show her off. That polish does make everything shine.



  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 9         View Full Size



Post# 997414 , Reply# 1   6/17/2018 at 10:17 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Yay!

Congratulations! That's a great toploader! Fortunately it is the one with the removable dispenser, not the horrible one with the dispenser on the lid. Welcome to H-axis topload washing!


Post# 997415 , Reply# 2   6/17/2018 at 10:23 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
You can see, well you can see the inside is not

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Quite clean. Will sort that out presently soon as some other issues are attended. Am going to give the boot and upper areas a good scrub with disinfectant cleaner, then run a rinse only cycle. This followed by a boil wash with vinegar should clean up any other muck and deal with a rather strong pong coming from tub.

Am guessing the whiff was caused by machine being unused and shut up (tsk, tsk, tsk), but that is small beer. Will also have to take out lint filter to see what there is down below.

Have long ago made a vow *NOT* to rush out and buy new things each time something arrives. Thus spent a good part of yesterday hunting down long ago stashed spare hoses, clamps, and so forth. European washing machines have different hose fittings (found that out when the Miele arrived many years ago now), but recalled having a job lot sent from Europe for the AEG OKO-Lavamat. Question was where did one put the things?

Other issue is that the AEG Electrolux uses that blasted AquaStop type fill hose. That will have to go eventually. But was glad previous owners sent it along so just needed to fit an extension hose with proper faucet coupling, so that's me sorted.

All and all an interesting bit of kit from Electrolux.

You can see how the lid does not close fully. One supposes that is to allow machine to air out between uses. All one need do is press gently and lid locks.

Downloaded manual but since have the OKO-Lavamat things aren't that much different. However Electrolux did make some changes along way.

"Zeit Sparen" is the "time saver" button. Same as with my other AEG one uses this to shave time off cycles. Maddening thing is manual does not give cycle times; merely says "refer to machine".

This model does not have a "Sensitive" function. The 46210 does, but that is a minor niggle. More so because unlike my OKO-Lavamat this machine does not allow use of "Rinse Plus" and Sensitive. The latter did so for "Cottons/Linens", and a few other cycles. However those which already had high water usage (such as Delicates) didn't allow.

One can open this machine up to ten minutes into cycle. One knows from old that amount of time is allotted by AEG to heat water. Thus one assumes to prevent scalding or whatever once machine reaches temperature it is "locked".

Another minor issue is lack of "20C" (no heat) option for normal and most other cycles. There are times when doing say a warm, or cold wash that don't want the bother (nor expense) of using machine's heaters. But guess Electrolux thought different.



Post# 997416 , Reply# 3   6/17/2018 at 10:26 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Thank you Louis

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Recall asking your advice about the other older AEG toplader was after, so am reassured you find this model more suitable.

A quick search on internet saw there are tons of parts still out there for this machine, even directly from Electrolux. But since they won't ship to USA will not even bother contacting.

Manual goes on about something called "Night Plus", but don't believe this model of toplader has that feature. My other AEG is dead quiet except at highest spin speed (1800), thus am curious as to what Electrolux has up their sleeves.

Drum is *huge*! Can see why Electrolux claims this washer holds 12lbs. Am not going to test limits, heavy things like blankets will still go into the Maytag wringer.




This post was last edited 06/17/2018 at 10:50
Post# 997420 , Reply# 4   6/17/2018 at 10:42 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
@launderess

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Should a need for parts arise am sure someone this side the pond will happily acquire and send on to you :)

Austin


Post# 997421 , Reply# 5   6/17/2018 at 10:45 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Thanks Austin

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What a treasure you are.

Have found in past Homespares UK a very good option. They even have USA site that deducts the VAT so one saves about 20% off regular prices.


Post# 997423 , Reply# 6   6/17/2018 at 10:50 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
You are most welcome !

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Also while perusing the net try Eurospares and any other supplier if you need anything they do not have its worth asking on here in case any of us lot have it stashed in a box I have some Miele bits and pieces I have stored and so far not needed :)

Austin


Post# 997426 , Reply# 7   6/17/2018 at 11:04 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Miele

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You can't fail, can you?

My W1070 just keeps on chugging along. Yes, she rattles and creaks while spinning, but the old girl just won't quit. Not sure what one will do when that day comes. There is well over $600 in newish parts in that machine which will not be rubbished! *LOL*


Post# 997427 , Reply# 8   6/17/2018 at 11:10 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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This is the AquaStop hose in question.

Interesting and useful bit of information is that Electrolux for some insane reasoning has parts for AEG, Zanussi, Zanker, and Privileg.

This means depending upon age of machine in question if a part cannot be found for say Lavamat, it might be as Zanussi, or Zanker.

In any event the water hose must go because it requires faucet with screws on outside. Also Electrolux does not recommend use of extensions (scrub that), and hose only comes in one short size. Went through this with the AEG Oko-Lavamat and thus already know one does not *need* this silly hose. It will remain for time being, but am making plans to replace.


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Post# 997441 , Reply# 9   6/17/2018 at 13:10 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Congratulations and enjoy it in good health!!!


Post# 997442 , Reply# 10   6/17/2018 at 13:31 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Yes, Electrolux sold such toploaders under many labels, aside from the ones you mentioned also Marynen, Faure, Arthur Martin, Elektro Helios, Rex and Zoppas. It will be much easier to get parts for this machine than for the machine you had an eye on before.

Post# 997451 , Reply# 11   6/17/2018 at 15:01 by appnut (TX)        

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Congratulations!!!  Beautiful. 


Post# 997455 , Reply# 12   6/17/2018 at 15:56 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Good luck and many happy hours of washing with your new addition!
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I`m curious about the one paddle design.
How exactly does it work with only one paddle or is there something else hidden under the lid we can`t see ? It`s not spinning the drum three times faster during wash and rinse agitation than a "normal" drum, is it ?

There is no comparable FL with only paddle out there, is there ?
How can you trust a very unique washer design if there is no youtube video out there to judge it before you buy. I couldn`t *LOL*


Post# 997473 , Reply# 13   6/17/2018 at 18:13 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Paddles

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There are two, at least from what one saw while cleaning tub. Might be three but cannot recall off hand.

Post# 997532 , Reply# 14   6/18/2018 at 01:10 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I didn't realize it is a topload machine!  How neat to find one here in the States.  Is it 50hz?  How will that work out?  Turn a little faster I guess?


Post# 997545 , Reply# 15   6/18/2018 at 04:25 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Like many modern European appliances of recent days this machine won't run on anything but 50hz. She hikes up her skirts and runs from anything else! *LOL*

Previous owners living in a rural area used a generator throttled down a few pegs. Obviously that won't go here; so a friend is going to supply a frequency converter.

Sadly the device for now will only give about 1.5kw, barely half of required. But am simply going to dispense with allowing machine to self heat water. Supplied voltage should be enough for everything else. Would require a frequency converter in excess of 3kw, which while easily found, would be nearly size of machine and cost sums equal to a new Miele W1! *LOL*

Between the Miele and OKO-Lavamat am well sorted with washing machines that do profile, boil washes and so forth. Then have several boiling pots that can be put on range; so that's me for you.

We all have to make do sometimes. Machine was free so that is something anyway.

And having lost out on the other AEG what could one do? Have fancied toplader H-axis washers since first visit to France years ago now.




This post was last edited 06/18/2018 at 04:42
Post# 997554 , Reply# 16   6/18/2018 at 06:42 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
@ Mrs Bucket...

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What does the 'Energiesparen' programme do (11 O'clock on the dial)?

I imagine it saves energy. Could it be a 'no heat' programme?

If push came to shove, I suppose you could connect the hose to the hot tap and allow the machine to fill and wash with hot water, then later on switch the hose to the cold tap for the rinses. You might have to use the lowest temps though, so the sensors don't try to switch on the heater.


Post# 997556 , Reply# 17   6/18/2018 at 06:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Energiesparen

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Is indeed "Energy Savings" programme.

AEG has offered it for some time, as my OKO-Lavamat W88840 has same cycle as well. Wrote about it at the time in a thread about my (then) new machine.

Basically cycle is supposed to give 140F wash results but using less energy. Does this by using less water (recirculating jet sees heavy use) during wash and taking ages (about two hours for the wash IIRC). Only did it the once to see what there was; then that was that. Suppose if one were wanting to do a wash overnight or otherwise didn't need the machine for several hours....

Thank you for suggestions regarding hot tap water. Have done that with the OKO-Lavamat say for laundry that was pre-soaked prior, thus didn't need a "profile" wash. Have a stash of AEG/Electrolux service manuals so am studying to see if these newer machines will have it; that is simply not turn on heater and get on with things if water temp is sensed to be within range (or over) whatever is desired already.



Post# 997562 , Reply# 18   6/18/2018 at 07:15 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Does this top-loader have a recirculation jet?

Post# 997564 , Reply# 19   6/18/2018 at 07:27 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Believe so, see pictures above. It might be the crusted over port with small slats.

Post# 997567 , Reply# 20   6/18/2018 at 07:40 by Lavamat_jon (-)        
AEG “Energy saving programme

Energy saving runs at 67 degrees, but with a longer programme length to give the same results as a 95 degree boilwash whilst using less energy.

Earlier versions had a position on the timer and/or an energy saving button you would select alongside ‘E’ on the temperature dial. Later electronic machines such as this one had a separate position on the dial.




Post# 997568 , Reply# 21   6/18/2018 at 07:45 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Energiesparen is indeed an energy savings programme. Older machines had them too, but those were meant for doing boil washes at 140F. With those the energy cycle was between the 95C and 60C programmes on the dial. Newer machines have this one which is intended to do a 140F cycle on a lower temperature or do it with only once the 140F being reached instead of maintained at that level. YMMV depending on the machine.

Post# 997578 , Reply# 22   6/18/2018 at 09:09 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Thanks for the explanations.

I remember when mum's hot & cold fill Hoover Electronic 1100 stopped heating the water due to a broken heater, it ran forever on the heating portion of the programmer on 'Non-Fast Coloureds @ 40°'. I managed to fool it by shutting off the cold tap as it filled, using hot water only. This allowed the thermostats to advance the timer accordingly. The heater got replaced not long after.


Post# 997652 , Reply# 23   6/19/2018 at 04:09 by richnz (New Zealand)        
Rather than using a full-on converter

Can you not swap out the heating element for one suited to US voltages and use a smaller converter to run the rest of the show?

I saw a Miele W3033 innards on this site. Thats how they seemed to get around the issue. A smaller transformer and I am guessing a lower resistance heating element. (Someone is BOUND to correct me)



Post# 997653 , Reply# 24   6/19/2018 at 04:15 by henene4 (Germany)        

The PCB and pumps are still 240V.

You'd have to completly rewire everything with converter powering the main machine, then take a relay that is switched by 240V but only switches 110V (which most likely dosen't exist), find a heater that fits the machine and runs on 110V, then wire it up, and you'd still need 2 sockets to run it.


A bought transformer is safer, especially considering one rents and does not own property...


Post# 997657 , Reply# 25   6/19/2018 at 05:35 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Morning All!

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@Richnz

After spending more hours than planned pouring over AEG/Electrolux service manuals one thing is clear; for these modern washers it seems everything is run off the PCB. Hence machine throwing error codes at once if there is any difference then set current specs and what machine detects.

Without the heaters machine uses very little power. But since there isn't away to turn that function off (no tap cold wash cycle outside of one *delicate*) for wash cycles.....

Electrolux does produce model series of washers that do allow for *cold* water (no heater) for other markets (Inspire seems to be one). Suppose one might create a "FrankenAEG" by swapping PCB board, controls, panel and so forth but who knows, PCB may still want 50hz.

Again what one needs to do in not uncommon and happens all the time from industry to domestic households. It just comes down to cost. There are no shortage of frequency converters of various sorts, some will even transform current. Just that once you start going > 1kw things become both dear in cost and larger in size.

Am in no huge rush, it's not as if one is in any danger of being forced to use local laundromat. *LOL* Will find a spot to shove the AEG into until things can be sorted.

While obviously cannot help thinking at this point "if only..." had nabbed the other older AEG, all this wouldn't be necessary. But then a forty year old European washing machine likely would present its own issues sooner or later, what happens then? *LOL*


Post# 997675 , Reply# 26   6/19/2018 at 07:20 by henene4 (Germany)        
Frequency

Not sure if frequency wouold matter to much.

The motor is a brush based commutator setup, so no issues there.
The PCB produces its own DC supply, so a full bridge rectifier most likely, thus not frequency dependent.
The heater and valves dont really care either.
The pump(s) would run 20% faster, but that shouldn't be detremental either.

But a transformer is costly, that is true.


As a form of trickery, you could try to connect a fixed value resistor instead of the NTC.
The service manual should list values for specific temperatures.
You would have to settle for specific temperature then, which would make numerous cycles unusable, but if you'd go for 40C, you could at least still use the main cycles.
Not sure though if the PCB wouldn't act up, along the lines of "why are the rinses warm?"...


Post# 997729 , Reply# 27   6/19/2018 at 14:09 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Frequency

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Am in agreement that frequency probably doesn't matter much to some parts of washer; but Electrolux in its infinite wisdom won't let consumers find out. *LOL*

PCB is so wired that if current is off, machine won't even get out of starting box.

Unlike Miele where there might be codes buried some where in programming to get around this; Electrolux made no such provisions. Am afraid trying to force issue will fry the PCB, then will have to seek out a replacement from Europe.

If one knew what one were doing exactly it might not be a huge matter to swap out the PCB and control panel to something more amenable. Eddy up in Canada has an older AEG washer (7000 series) that was brought from Europe and it works happily on North American 60hz current). Thus assume this "frequency/current protection" system is of a recent vintage.


Post# 997738 , Reply# 28   6/19/2018 at 15:59 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

Could you try and get rid of this in favour of a Miele W174 or similar that'll let you fiddle about?

Post# 997743 , Reply# 29   6/19/2018 at 16:24 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
If only!

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Have never seen a Miele toplader in North America, and I've been looking for ages.

In the end not sure wouldn't end up in same situation. Miele does not sell toplader washers outside of Europe IIRC, and the things are 230v-240v at 50hz *period*.


Post# 997803 , Reply# 30   6/20/2018 at 00:42 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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From what I've found online so far, it appears your new machine uses 2300 watts. 

Technische Daten
ABMESSUNGEN Höhe 850 mm
Breite 400 mm
Tiefe 600 mm
 
SPANNUNG / FREQUENZ
GESAMTLEISTUNGSAUFNAHME 230 V / 50 Hz 2300 W
WASSERDRUCK
Anschluss an die
Wasserversorgung
Minimum
Maximum
0,05 MPa (0,5 bar)
0,8 MPa (8 bars)
Typ 20x27
Dieses Gerät entspricht der Richtlinie 89/336/EWG zur elektromagnetischen

Verträglichkeit sowie der Niederspannungsrichtlinie 73/23/EWG

 

What about something like this??  It says it is step up/step down 120V/240V 50/60hz.  But if the 1.5 multiplier is used, may need to go on to a 5000 watt which is here

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5000-Watt-Heavy-Duty-Voltage-Regulator-Converter-Transformer-Step-Up-Down-5000W/113009925771?hash=item1a4fea9e8b:g:X1oAAOSwuHFbBSBJ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Voltage-Converter-110V-to-220V-Step-Up-Down-Best-Transformer-3000W-ELC-T3000-NEW/123170119824?epid=14017587132&hash=item1cad82e090:g:5QIAAOSwirFbE-eT

I don't know how reliable these would be but there they are.

 


Post# 997806 , Reply# 31   6/20/2018 at 00:55 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Greg, that seems to only change the voltage -- Launderess seems to have access to 240V, what she needs is to go from 60Hz to 50Hz.

There are frequency transformers that are electronic and probably expensive, because they depend on solid state electronics that are rather spendy. In the past, what people would often do is to use an electric motor, a small transmission (often a belt and pulleys) and an alternator that would output 50 Hz. Still not cheap if bought new, but it might be possible to find something that someone has lying around unused and wants to get rid of for a small amount or even for free just to get the space/room back. It will definitely make more noise and generate some additional heat compared to the electronic versions, but on the positive side (no pun intended), at least it will have a good sinusoidal wave that will make the washer work well, many electronic converters will generate a wave that is more squarish and that can work poorly with washers that expect to be connected to the mains.

Another suggestion that might or might not work -- try to search for a Uninterruptible Power Supply that accepts 240V/60Hz and outputs 240V/50Hz, people might have some they are trying to get rid of, now that most computers have a universal power supply, and that might be cheaper than equipment people think they can charge a lot because folks "need it" and thus need to get separated from their money.

Good luck!


Post# 997809 , Reply# 32   6/20/2018 at 01:26 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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yeah, looking at it I think you are correct...Hz in = Hz out, only V changed.


Post# 997811 , Reply# 33   6/20/2018 at 01:57 by henene4 (Germany)        
As we discussed

Frequency shouldn't matter, certanly won't fry anything.

Post# 997817 , Reply# 34   6/20/2018 at 03:45 by richnz (New Zealand)        
Scrap what I said

Yes, all the power flows through the PCB and there is no external heating relay. If that was the case then transformer for the motor, solenoids and pump but USA mains voltage for the heating would be the cheapest way to go.

Sigh.
So close but so far!

I do hope you find a Miele toplader. Conversion of that to USA power would be simpler.


Post# 997823 , Reply# 35   6/20/2018 at 05:27 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Thanks all to pieces for suggestions/tips guys.

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Please keep them coming.

@Askolover - Watts and voltage we have, it is the pesky 50hz frequency requirement that is holding up the convoy.

@earthling177 - UPS idea is an interesting one, but don't believe even the most robust of such devices can handle motors. The start capacity is usually culprit IIRC.

@henene - Am in total agreement, however in their infinite wisdom Electrolux believes differently. Shan't ever know nor get to find out how machine behaves on 60hz as the blasted PCB simply won't play ball.

Browsing through Electrolux/AEG service manuals last night was wondering if a simple PCB swap would work. That is find a control board from before this modern incarnation with strict frequency requirements. Again we know members have purchased AEG units before that found their way to North American, and they ran perfectly fine on 60hz.

Of course what one would have to do in such a situation is basically decapitate current control fascia/board/PCB and swap it with something else. In short again creating a "FrakenLavamat". This could be hampered if connections for a start don't match.

@richnz - Pity isn't it? But again am in no particular rush, so have time to find a solution. However it is increasingly looking as if one will have to nab a frequency converter large enough to provide the 2.3kW wanted.

Unless one can find a way round the heaters coming on (which would instantly fry an under powered FC), that does seem to be the only way to go.

Who knows, may grow weary of this particular whim and fancy; then could mark-up the machine and sell it on! *LOL*

For someone with access to a generator it will work fine. But zoning and other regulations frown upon such things being used in close confined quarters. *LOL*


Post# 997826 , Reply# 36   6/20/2018 at 05:54 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Perhaps I missed something, but isn't it possible that the board is actually broken and that being the reason for not working?

Post# 997831 , Reply# 37   6/20/2018 at 07:10 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Hello Louis

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Board is fine, that is why it is giving said code.

When code is given one is at first instructed to contact local power company to inquire about any issues that might be causing frequency changes. If there are, one must wait until they clear/have been fixed. OTOH if power from outlet is fine, then yes the board should be changed.

Previous owner was rather indignant (putting it mildly) when inquired about the code and reminded that machine was being offered as functioning properly.

Wasn't called outright a daft cow, but gist of things were what part of the advert didn't one understand (about generator being throttled down to 3000 from 3600), and unit worked fine. Was also reminded that out of gate one was asked "how are you going to power this?). That was me sorted!

Searched archives and another member from Canada had same exact problem. He turfed the Electrolux machine to local tip. www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...

In my research came upon several others who brought back AEG washing machines from Europe, only to have same issues. They reached out to AEG North America (in Canada) was told what has been stated above. Motor, drain pump, electronics, door lock, etc... all would need to be replaced. Furthermore out of liability issues AEG North America would not furnish parts nor provide service. In other words, "tough cheddar".


Post# 997833 , Reply# 38   6/20/2018 at 07:22 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Ah, yes, I remember that thread. Thanks for clearing that up.

Post# 997877 , Reply# 39   6/20/2018 at 20:33 by richnz (New Zealand)        
What would happen

if you just unplugged the heating element at the board?

Its not like it the machine complains when the element is burnt out?


Post# 997880 , Reply# 40   6/20/2018 at 21:36 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Oh yes it likely would! *LOL*

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As Edina Monsoon would likely say; the buggery bollocks machine has a code for everything.

aeglavamat.blogspot.com/2015/07/a...

www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fault...


Post# 997914 , Reply# 41   6/21/2018 at 07:28 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Replies #39 & #40

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I thought the same (disconnect the heater), but then I imagined that the PCB would probably have a feature to detect a non-increasing temperature range; either that or current drain/lack of. Electronic gubbins these days, are so constraining.

I had to laugh at the "buggery bollocks" comment!


Post# 997915 , Reply# 42   6/21/2018 at 08:14 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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@Louis: "It will be much easier to get parts for this machine than for the machine you had an eye on before."

That's us both fooled; spent time pouring over AEG spares website and a fair number of parts for this series of machine are NLA. Motor, PCB, intake solenoid, and a few other bits are no longer available from Electrolux. Some can still be found elsewhere however.


@Rolls_Rapide:

Yes, these modern electronically controlled machines are wonderful in some aspects, but a pain in others.

Did a full load of thick bath towels and wash cloths last night in the AEG OKO-Lavamat. Rated load was 100%, and machine coped rather well. While the older Miele would have banged, clanged, and hardly spun between washes because of rush of water at extraction; the Lavamat can control drum movements, speed, and so forth to get the job done.

Have found out this machine is part of a series that has many different models, some even run on 50hz or 60hz depending upon how programmed.

Am *guessing* such machines are the AEG Lavamat (front loaders only)washers sold in North America and the few other places that use 60hz power.

Equally am assuming that the model series applies to both top and front loading H-axis washers. That is the PCB/control board doesn't know or care which type of machine, though maybe there might be some small differences to account for difference in drums.

What one is getting at is have been pouring over Electrolux service manuals to see if my "FrankenLavamat" idea would work. That is simply swapping out the PCB that is restricted to 50hz, to one that will work on either that frequency or 60hz.

Of course various issues at once arise. The motor on this machine (one assumes) is three phase inverter controlled, speed comes from the frequency. Other Lavamats use AC motors of various sorts. Don't know if simply swapping out a PCB would bother the motor, or are there specific connections and or programming necessary.

The other niggle is that PCB/control board seem to arrive in need of programming after installation. Naturally an AEG repairman could do this; but one would not have access to proper codes.

Still it is an idea am toying around with as PCB boards are far less dear than going with converters an whatever else.

Sadly neither Electrolux/AEG UK or France will give one the time of day. Obviously cannot book on a service call out. And if told machine is out of the country; am directed to contact proper AEG office where one resides.

Am thinking may have to offer that nice young man who makes all those YouTube videos a holiday in New York in exchange....... *LOL*

Still one does have a rather low use AEG Lavamat toploader for very little out of pocket; that is something anyway. Will just have to bide one's time until a solution can be found (cheaply).


Post# 997921 , Reply# 43   6/21/2018 at 10:25 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        
@Launderess

foraloysius's profile picture
I think AEG should be the last one to turn to for parts. There are way more other parts dealers and websites that keep those parts for a much longer time. The model you have now, my not be listed on some websites, but similar models might. The best is to search for the part numbers on the parts. It's also possible that parts or not to be found on websites, but those parts may still be available at second hand white goods businesses that don't bother with the internet (and I bet there are lots of them.)

Have you contacted Euroline in Canada? Perhaps they know how to work around the 60 Hz thing. They have sold such washing machines, and IIRC they even sold a toploader for a short while. It's possible that the AEG appliances they sell just get a small adaption so they can be used on your side of the pond.


Post# 997922 , Reply# 44   6/21/2018 at 10:52 by henene4 (Germany)        
Inverter motor

Wow, didn't think it had the inverter motor.

Your new PCB for the FrankenMat needs to come from a washer with inverter motor from the same row of machines...

Let me go do some google magic! Could you post a picture of the identification plate? Or post the PNC number?


Post# 997923 , Reply# 45   6/21/2018 at 10:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Only go to AEG UK/France/Germany to find diagrams, part lists and numbers; don't bother with ordering. Their prices are rather dear for a start, and won't ship out of the country.

When looking for solenoid for the front loading Lavamat, simply looked up part number for reference, then searched Internet. Homespares had it, and was vastly cheaper than Electrolux/AEG UK, so that was that.

Reached out to Euroline about the "other" toplader from Detroit. Was told since it was a (very) old and "obsolete" washer they would have to contact Germany. Several days later received word that Germany responded that due to age of machine it was no longer in their database/files. Euroline further stated they could do nothing else because machine was not sold in North America.

Have not reached out to EL on this issue, but as noted upthread someone else did; and was basically told to sling her hook. Person had a washer and dryer she brought back to North America.... needed 50hz.... EL reached out to Europe again and responded that machine would need to have basically a major swap out of parts, none of which they would be supplying out of liability issues.

Thus am not going to bother contacting them again as already know the answer.

AEG like Miele tends to keep their markets separate. While Miele at least will attempt to order parts for a unit never sold in USA, they will not offer any warranty. Euroline will ship parts to USA from up north, but Miele Canada will not. Far as Electrolux in various European countries are concerned one might as well be on Mars, because if out of their local area you can forget it.

Didn't know EL once sold toplader AEG Lavamats. Knew they went way back with front loaders. Will have to keep my eyes out to see if one pops up.

The two members from Canada with AEG experience (Eddy and BellaLaundry) are long MIA, so cannot pick their brains either.



Post# 997925 , Reply# 46   6/21/2018 at 11:06 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
@Henene

There are a few platforms and variations of this washer;

manualzz.com/doc/1457033/electrol...

manualzz.com/doc/1315235/zanussi-...

PNC# 913212261 06


Post# 997927 , Reply# 47   6/21/2018 at 11:21 by henene4 (Germany)        
They're all 50/60hz

www.service.electrolux.com/train/...

Sheet 15, all models are 50/60hz compatible.

It's the ENV06 PCB family.

Depending on which machine you have, there is a name for the PCB. You should probably be abled to encode that, if you need help translating, just ask or go to google translate.


You don't have 208V service in you house, right?



Post# 997928 , Reply# 48   6/21/2018 at 11:26 by henene4 (Germany)        
Beware

Yours is NOT inverter based, for your PNC a EWM21 PCB comes up in the German AEG parts store:

shop.aeg.de/W%C3%A4schepflege/Wa...

Here's the German parts list for your model:

shop.aeg.de/searchQUESTIONMARKRE...

There is also no recirculation on your model.



The only mention I could find was the motor being labeled 50hz (except for the pumps, but we went over that already).

But since it should be a brushed motor, frequency is a non issue there.


Post# 997929 , Reply# 49   6/21/2018 at 11:36 by henene4 (Germany)        
Converter

A 110V -> 220V 3000W convert can be had for about 105$ before tax and shipping, that however needs a 30A rated 110V circut on its own.

voltage-converter-transformers.c...

But with that a local electrician could probably help you out.


Post# 997930 , Reply# 50   6/21/2018 at 11:41 by Revvinkevin (So. Cal.)        
But........

revvinkevin's profile picture



That converter shows "Compatible with 50Hz/60Hz".  I would assume this means the input power FOR the converter, not an adjustable output FROM the converter.  The only control I see is an on/off switch.


Post# 997931 , Reply# 51   6/21/2018 at 11:55 by henene4 (Germany)        
...

As I said, the machine accepts both 50 and 60 hz.

The PCB dosen't bother, the motor dosen't bother.
Only thing that is botthered is the drain pump, running about 20% faster, thus maybe lasting not quite as long.

Thus frequency conversion is not needed.

Only step up transformation.


Post# 997937 , Reply# 52   6/21/2018 at 12:20 by Revvinkevin (So. Cal.)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

 

 

Aaah, nice.  Well Miss Launderess, I hope this is a viable option for you.  Except for the required 30 amp breaker, looks & sounds like a win-win.

 

BTW, CONGRATS on acquiring this neat machine, assuming all the proper pieces call into place and you can get it to work!  


Post# 997954 , Reply# 53   6/21/2018 at 15:27 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
@Henene:

Danke for all your efforts on our behalf, and also for clearing up my research errors regarding the machine. At least now am sorted as to what one has got.

Never the less while voltage we have, the machine still won't accept 60hz power. Code is generated with alarm that won't go away. Well it does after a period but shuts machine down with it. Don't want to force the issue for fear of damaging PCB board.

While the machine in theory may accept either 50hz or 60hz power; it does seem the thing is programmed to only accept former.

Which brings one back to what stated earlier; perhaps if one knew how to program the PCB could make the necessary change. That information seems not to be in general public domain.



Post# 997956 , Reply# 54   6/21/2018 at 16:00 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

speedqueen's profile picture

Eddy isn't MIA, he posted within the last couple months, here is the link to his page, you could try e-mailing him.

 

Eddy1210:

www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...


Post# 997959 , Reply# 55   6/21/2018 at 16:12 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Really!

launderess's profile picture
Didn't see his post! Will have to drop him a line to say "hello".

@Kevin,

Thank you for the kind words. Things just don't come easily with ourselves and AEG appliances do they? Can get them home well enough it seems (with help of dear friends, thank you very much my Secret Squirrel), but there are always issues.

Still haven't forgiven Home Direct delivery service for banging up what were virtually NIB units, still haven't forgotten about that. *LOL*



Post# 997969 , Reply# 56   6/21/2018 at 19:17 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
So now the question becomes

launderess's profile picture
What or who can provide programming to override or switch the electronics to allow 60hz.

Have been up and down various EU appliance websites and no one has given the suggestion of changing Lavamat frequency requirements. Nor will anyone divulge how to program or reprogram a PCB. For obvious reasons Electrolux/AEG does not put that information out to general public it seems.

Recall for awhile ways to "adjust" Miele washing machines sold in North America was put out into general circulation (internet), which apparently caused issues. Techs both doing home visits and on telephone having to deal with undoing what a customer did (and often wouldn't fess up to). By later versions of 3XXX models that all was taken away for most part.


Post# 997987 , Reply# 57   6/21/2018 at 22:48 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
@Kevin

launderess's profile picture
Yes, those step up or down converters merely reduce or increase voltage, but frequency remains same. Because they accept both 50hz and 60hz they can be used worldwide. People use them in Europe or other parts of world to run North American appliances, and vice versa.

Not being able to change frequency makes them neither use nor ornament in my situation.

However if one is willing to go for a mortgage, there are frequency converters which also will reduce or amplify voltage. Voltage change is secondary to frequency so it doesn't require much more effort to include.

That being said such units are *very* dear; especially when one goes above 1kW of power. www.amazon.com/GoHz-Frequ...

That being said there is a market for such devices. Businesses that have equipment which is 50hz and also requires voltage increased or decreased.






Post# 998018 , Reply# 58   6/22/2018 at 09:16 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

My google-fu is not strong today.

In any case, I've found a company that seems to make power equipment and have clients like medical/military installations that usually need power conversion.

I submitted a request for info (price etc) on behalf of a "friend who just moved from Germany" and needs either a frequency converter or an UPS to go from 240V/30A/60Hz (dryer outlet) to 230V/16A/50Hz.

The website promises to respond in a business day, I'll post anything I get. But just looking at several places that did not offer exactly what we need (Tripplite, for example) but have similar things, a 2.5kW to 3kW piece of hardware is about a grand, which is not cheap, but would be one solution.

More as soon as I get info from them. Worst that happens is they don't answer or it's too expensive, but at least we'll know.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO earthling177's LINK


Post# 998031 , Reply# 59   6/22/2018 at 14:12 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Thank you,

launderess's profile picture
Will be interesting to hear a quote, will add it to number have already.

Long story short a FC of size required (to accommodate heater and motor surge power) will likely run cost of a new TOL Miele W1 washer! *LOL*

Have been looking for a used bit of equipment, but thus far no such luck. Everything is rated much lower output, which means moment heaters came on would fry the FC.

To "reprogram" the control board requires a DAAS-EAP communications protocol up to 115.200 baud. That and knowledge of what exactly one is doing.


Post# 998038 , Reply# 60   6/22/2018 at 15:06 by solsburian (SE Northumberland)        
@mrboilwash: Single paddle FL

Regarding front loaders with a single paddle, I remember a few years ago at my local department store, Fenwick of Newcastle, they were selling a slim(ish) depth Zanussi with a 6kg or 7kg load with a shallow drum and a single paddle. It was definitely an Electrolux product as it had the contemporary ZWF facia and plain drain cover at the lower right.

Post# 998102 , Reply# 61   6/23/2018 at 02:54 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
Thank you Solsburian for taking the time to answer my question.

The answer I was given before that it could be two or maybe three made me feel like an idiot.
I really wasn`t 100% sure if such an unusual design ever existed, but dimly remembered I`ve read about it on AW.


Post# 998125 , Reply# 62   6/23/2018 at 08:04 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        
Actually...

foraloysius's profile picture
Don't know about the older ones, but the new ones have three paddles. One big paddle at the bottom and two small ones, just on both sides of the lid opening of the drum. You can't really see them when you stand over the machine, but you stick your head almost inside, they are really there.

Post# 998368 , Reply# 63   6/25/2018 at 12:59 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Strike Two

launderess's profile picture
AEG North America is out. They cannot offer assistance because it would change the "CSA/UL/ULC certifications" thus make them liable for any outcome.

Don't know why bothered asking; were it that simple everyone else would have gone that route.


Post# 998509 , Reply# 64   6/27/2018 at 04:30 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

I can't believe no one out there knows how to enter service/diagnostics/programming mode.


Post# 998510 , Reply# 65   6/27/2018 at 04:42 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I posted this on the UK washing machine group on Facebook. Who knows someone might end up with a solution, there are some guys repairing appliances there.

Post# 998515 , Reply# 66   6/27/2018 at 05:59 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Morning All!

launderess's profile picture
@Louis

Thank you! How very kind. Was considering doing the same over on UKwasher.help but the query in one form or another has been made before with same reply; "it cannot be done...."

@Askolover

Have spent more hours than care to think about researching this issue. It is common enough but answers always are same; it won't work, don't bother, and from Electrolux/AEG " we cannot offer any assistance......".

Since am a glass half filled sort of person take the brush off from AEG in Canada as one of the few positive things thus far. As they said "wouldn't" provide the information, rather than what one wanted couldn't be done.

Am guessing Electrolux keeps their service persons on a short lead and, and would read them the riot act if any went around "reprogramming" EEPROM on washing machines or dryers.

Accessing service/diagnostic setting is easy, that can be found in any of the scores of service manuals online. Problem is that this particular code/fault (incorrect power/frequency supply) is self correcting. Once things return to normal parameters machine will start. If they don't it won't.

Worse still rather like when a computer first boots internal electronics at once detect any change in voltage/frequency. If found system blocks all further activity until things are corrected. Machine literally shuts down and becomes bricked.




Post# 998645 , Reply# 67   6/28/2018 at 03:24 by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)        

Would an inverter not solve the problem, something like a pure sinewave inverter. I am merely suggesting as I don't have any electrician background and/or training. We have installed deep cycle batteries at our practice and in case of a power outage said 12 volt batteries runs through the inverter and it powers most of our electronic equipment. Surely if it can cycle a car battery to 220 volts there must be something that can be done for Launderess.

Regards,



CLICK HERE TO GO TO mieleforever's LINK


Post# 998649 , Reply# 68   6/28/2018 at 04:31 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
So far no solution from the Facebook group. Someone suggested to replace the suppressor and/or the mains filter, but he wasn't sure. Then someone else replied that was not going to help with the problem.

Post# 998671 , Reply# 69   6/28/2018 at 07:48 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Morning all

launderess's profile picture
@Mieleforever

Inverter is an interesting idea, but comes with drawbacks. The high amount of power drawn by washer (2100 watts) if even for say 10 minutes will drain a 12v or even 24v battery quickly. Unless hooked up to something that charges while in use (as a car does via alternator) could end up with the thing being drained before the one hour (or more) wash cycle is completed.

Would also want to put some sort of fuse/circuit breaker or some sort of circuit protection between battery - inverter and appliances or whatever is being powered. Those DC batteries put out great power and a sudden surge could fry inverter, not to mention anything connected if one understands correctly.

There are sine wave inverters built into frequency converters, power generators (solar, petrol, diesel, etc..., but things get rather dear when looking at 2kW or 3kW.

@Louis

Thanks for the update. Yes, you are correct neither response will provide a solution. But hope springs eternal, so we shall keep waiting to see if anything turns up on FB.


Post# 1000260 , Reply# 70   7/14/2018 at 07:33 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

Any progress to report, or is this one doomed to end up in the dump as well?

Post# 1000299 , Reply# 71   7/14/2018 at 17:15 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
How nice of you to ask.

launderess's profile picture
No luv, nothing new to report. Washer still is sat shoved into cubby and remains unused.

Have contacted several "marine" buffs (those who own boats) and was told my situation isn't uncommon, but solutions are expensive. Just as what everyone else here and elsewhere has stated right down the line.

Absent reprogramming the EPROM (which doesn't seem likely as no one has spoken up, nor does it seem as if any ever will), next solution is to purchase or rig up some sort of frequency converter.

There are all sorts out there designed to do just what one is wanting, and many will also step up or down current in process. Problem is units capable of providing 10 or more amps of power at 230v for 2kW are dear, *very* dear.

How dear you say? Well put it this way, could purchase a new TOL Miele W1 washing machine with all bells and whistles (including Twin Dos and WiFi) for about same or less money.

My boating friends who run washing machines off various devices including inverters say the key is to find a machine where temperature is separate from cycles, then just do not use heating elements. That takes a major load off electrical requirements leaving only the surge created by motor when it begins to spin. That is more easily managed with various *other* power sources.

Sadly that is not an option with this AEG Lavamat and can't get a straight answer out of AEG Canada or France just what machine will do if say 40c/Cottons is selected but incoming water is at or well above that temp. Know what my other Lavamat does (shortens cycle by ten minutes), but that unit is of old and built in Germany. Not sure what Electrolux has done since with these newer models in terms of programming. Machine may work fine as noted above, or throw a code and shut down because it assumes something is wrong with heating element.

Once some other things are out of way may consider simply ponying up the vast sum for a proper frequency converter, but not now.

In any event won't go route of BellaLaundry and take the machine to tip. It will run perfectly on generator power (if the thing is ramped down to 3000 from 36000). Indeed some boating friends have done this when using "shore power".

In theory then someone with a backyard and or other access to outdoors and thus could run a petrol fired generator could use this washer to their hearts content. So would try to find a nice home for unit instead. It is very lightly used and considering the large expat community in NY/NJ/Conn area someone might want.

Again someone out there nabbed that older AEG toplader from Detroit, so obviously knew what it was, and made their move.


Post# 1000327 , Reply# 72   7/14/2018 at 21:27 by washingpowder (NYC)        

Launderess, hope you find a solution to fire up your machine!

You brought up a number of memories; growing up in Europe, many bathrooms featured a top load, H-axis style machine. Majority of the time, either a Whirlpool or Candy; sporadically a Bosch. I've personally repaired two that weren't flushing the dispenser right.

AEG (and Bosch, speaking of kitchen appliances) was mom's brand of choice - those pictures you provided remind me of my childhood. Although we always had front load washers, the styling and options are long gone. I can almost feel the mechanical clicks of turning the cycle selector - kind of firm and loud but still plasticky and softened.


Post# 1000662 , Reply# 73   7/18/2018 at 12:12 by bewitched (Italy)        

All this story reminds me the zenith digital system 3 i bought in your country and got shipped to my country (italy). it didn’t power up because the mains frequency here is 50hz and not 60! I rented a bulky gasoline generator that could supply the needed frequency judt to see it turning on. you can just imagine such thing in an apartment living room spitting smoke while working!!then i thought another solution had to be found. i looked at the schematic provided with the zenith and found the processor needed a squrare wave signal injected to one of its terminals. i found the project to build a small generator and hooked it to the zenith. this trick did the job. unfortunately the tv never worked properly as there also were tv standard problems but the 50/60 hz issue was solved. i asked to a friend that works for the aeg electrolux service center about your machine but he told me there is no a service function about the country or mains frequency as you can find on miele machines.

Post# 1000699 , Reply# 74   7/18/2018 at 20:32 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Cannot believe you used a petrol generator indoors.

launderess's profile picture
Much as one loves my laundry equipment, would even dream. Neighbors would surely complain, and soon as fire department left an army of lawyers would descend. *LOL*

Cannot recall all of it, but yes televisions involve more than just the frequency difference between countries.

Yes, there isn't an "service" mode on Electrolux AEG Lavamat washers that allows changing of frequency required. It has to be done via reprogramming the EPROM, which requires not only proper laptop/computer connection but access to the software as well I should imagine. Any of which seems to be more than any AEG service or tech persons job is worth by divulging.


Post# 1000890 , Reply# 75   7/21/2018 at 00:48 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

If you were to run your gas genset in the house---the CO would poison you!!!!!DON'T DO IT!!!!!Pluse the NOISE!!!!And not to mention the fire hazard from the engine and hot parts on it.

Post# 1000905 , Reply# 76   7/21/2018 at 06:15 by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

As previously mentioned, you could run an electric motor-driven generator... surely that shouldn't be too hard to rig up cheaply? After all, isn't a generator basically just a motor being turned by external power? So all you'd need would be one 50Hz motor and a spare 60Hz one to act as the genny...

Post# 1000908 , Reply# 77   7/21/2018 at 06:33 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Get a sold state convertor instead-would be less expensive-motor genset as we know them are no longer made for the most part.I haven't seen one in MANY years-the last one I saw was a 100Kw Westinghouse unit-480V 3ph to 400V 2 phase at 10khz for an induction heating.No longer used but still there.Seen it run..The motor turns a generator-not another motor.That would not work.

Post# 1004270 , Reply# 78   8/20/2018 at 20:57 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
*Update* Of Sorts

launderess's profile picture
No, haven't put the machine into action yet. Know what is wanting but just cannot swing dear cost of getting atm.

But using the other AEG Lavamat on Sunday, found out my theory about using warmer water to fill in attempts to keep heater use down (and thus overall wattage drawn), won't really work as planned.

Did a "50c" Cottons/Linens in the Lavamat front loader choosing "91" minute cycle. Set taps to give warm water and went about doing other things.

When washer began to fill with cold water (moved taps over after machine had finished filling for wash) as part of the cool down before draining watched the timer. What had been 71 minutes quickly dropped down to 54 minutes remaining. In short washer deducted a full 31 minutes from wash portion of cycle.

If am doing sums correctly that gave just 20 minutes of washing time. However since the timer counts down from time cycle is started this includes time use for filling, load sensing, more filling (to top up if required), then heating. All use different drum rhythms meaning the washing in earnest does not truly begin for ten or more minutes after proper temp was reached.

Happily was only doing a coverlet and some towels and smalls (white) to make up a full load. Nothing was badly soiled so even with relatively "short" wash all is clean. However this does not bode well for my plans... It now almost certain will need a big a**** converter capable of handing total max draw plus one half to one times more as a safety margin.





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