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Thread Number: 76666
/ Tag: Vintage Dryers
It never ends... now it's the '59 Frigidaire dryer |
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Post# 1005215 8/28/2018 at 14:15 (2,060 days old) by turquoisedude  (.) |
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 Ever since I got the 59 turquoise Frigidaire set from Greg back in 2015, the dryer has been in almost-continous service and quickly became my 'go-to' dryer in the Ogden Laundry. Unfortunately, about a week ago, I tried to dry a load of clothes in it and instead of tumbling normally, the dryer drum made a scraping or dragging sound while trying to turn. The motor overload tripped fairly shortly thereafter... On the weekend, even with all the Filter-Flo excitement, I managed to pull the dryer out to investigate. Belts and pulleys looked ok from the back and when I slipped the drum drive belt off, the motor and blower seemed run fine.
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Post# 1005218 , Reply# 1 8/28/2018 at 14:17 (2,060 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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I managed to get the top off (I made sure to mark, photograph, and notarize all the wiring I had to disconnect to do that...) and pull the drum out.
Now, where could all of that fine white lint at the rear of drum have come from? | ||
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Post# 1005221 , Reply# 2 8/28/2018 at 14:21 (2,060 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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I think this is culprit.... That drive plate was kinda 'wobbly' when I tried to spin it by hand, so I'm going to guess that the bearing has worn out. Sheesh, it gave out after only 59 years of service. I'm going to write those Frigidaire people in Dayton for sure... LOL Now the search for a replacement begins. I am pretty sure that Phil has one from a newer model, but I don't have the part numbers to be sure. Would there be any issue with substituting a newer drive plate and bearing on the 1959 Imperial?
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Post# 1005224 , Reply# 3 8/28/2018 at 14:52 (2,060 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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| Post# 1005246 , Reply# 4 8/28/2018 at 16:11 (2,060 days old) by christfr (st louis mo) | ||
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| Post# 1023750 , Reply# 5 2/6/2019 at 10:21 (1,898 days old) by sfh074 ( ) | ||
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Here is a pic ...... of the toasted bearing in question. Looks like it has seen better days. Dried out and galling set in. Anyone have one of these in better condition? | ||
| Post# 1023758 , Reply# 6 2/6/2019 at 11:24 (1,898 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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You have as bad a luck with dryers as I do with stoves,,lol | ||
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Post# 1023760 , Reply# 7 2/6/2019 at 11:36 (1,898 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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1959 FD Vented Dryer Hi paul, I don't think I have the parts you need for this one, a machinist could easily rebuild that shaft and rear bearing.
FD vented dryers in the 50s had lots of problems [ good thing they didn't try making a gas one, LOL ] even by the mid 70s I could count on one hand the number I ever saw still in use in customers homes.
They suffered from heater problems, bad wiring, loose blowers, bad motor bearings and front and rear drum bearing wear problems, when you get it rebuilt I would not use this one much.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1023767 , Reply# 8 2/6/2019 at 13:09 (1,898 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
did you check the in dryer fusebox | ||
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Post# 1029978 , Reply# 9 4/15/2019 at 19:13 (1,830 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York) |
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part number Part number 5436520 "Drum Shaft Bearing" is used on all 1952-61 vented dryers and some early production 1962 vented models. Does that help the search? | ||
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Post# 1029994 , Reply# 10 4/15/2019 at 21:06 (1,830 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Post# 1031961 , Reply# 11 5/6/2019 at 15:33 (1,809 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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At last.... an update!
I've been quietly stewing about the '59 Frigdaire dryer being out of service, alternately doing mad searches for a new bearing and alternately straining my poor addled brain trying to figure out what might be a viable substitute....
The notion of getting a machine shop to look at the bearing came up, but alas, I had been unable to find a local one or a machinist who didn't look at me as if I'd just stepped off a spaceship when I asked if they could remake a bearing. After the kind offer of a fellow member, Bud, in Atlanta, I decided I had nothing to lose by sending the bearing to him as he had found a potential machine shop who might be willing to help. Well, here's where it gets interesting: as I was crossing the Vermont/Quebec border on Saturday morning to send the bearing, one of the border security agents said to me, and I quote: "Atlanta? Hell, go see Pat Boisvert in Beebe Line. He's been doing metalwork for years; this'll be a piece of cake for him!" So, I went to see M. Boisvert (just an aside - his shop is on a street that literally runs along the Canada/US border. His address was on the Beebe Line, VT side. It was interesting...) Anyway, he cleaned up the bearing and shaft and came to the conclusion that the bearing was made of a porous material and could be re-oiled. His recommended procedure was to heat up a quantity of 20-weight motor to the 'ouch' point (his instructions were to heat the oil up until when you tried to put a finger in it, you'd go 'Ouch'). He said to then drop in the bearing; if it bubbled, it meant it was dry. Well lookee what happened... | ||
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Post# 1031962 , Reply# 12 5/6/2019 at 15:35 (1,809 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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M. Boisvert said to keep the bearing 'cooking' until no more air bubbles were present. I did. This took about an hour and fifteen minutes on LO on the GE Wonder Kitchen cooktop. The house reeked but it was worth it! The bearing turned smoothly again!
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Post# 1031963 , Reply# 13 5/6/2019 at 15:39 (1,809 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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I was very pleased and naturally, I reassembled the dryer drum. I could turn it smoothly again!!
HOWEVER.... Yeah, turquoisedude strikes again. I managed to lose a woodruff key that went into the dryer drum shaft to hold the pulley in place, so I couldn't fully reassemble the dryer and test it. My first challenge for this week will be to find a replacement woodruff key.
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Post# 1031964 , Reply# 14 5/6/2019 at 15:49 (1,809 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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HOWEVER... part II
As I had the back of the dryer off and bright daylight was streaming into the garage, I noticed something not so good on the motor switch connector block.
Look at that spade terminal and wire, as well as the board around the terminal itself. That looks like evidence of an overheating connection to me... Knowing how well I've done with vintage dryer work in the past year, I'm proud of myself for spotting this! The terminal itself is loose, I can wiggle it around, unlike the other terminals on the connector block. Natch, this wire goes right to the heater so I am figuring that there is some kind of a centrifugal switch that activates the heater only if the motor is running. How to fix the problem is now intriguing me... My first thought was pull the motor (I wasn't sure if I could just remove that switch block) and figure out how to tighten the connector post. But then I had another thought... Maybe this is a good opportunity to use a relay to control the heater instead of a motor switch. One way or another, I want to correct this to avoid any unpleasant surprises (do feel free to remind me of the lousy connections I did on the '53 Westinghouse dryer and how well THAT worked out...LOL). If I do go with a relay, what should I be looking for in terms of the relay itself? Should I be thinking of wiring it in such a way that the relay was powered when the motor was running, as the centrifugal switch does? All advice and opinions are welcome! While I mull this over, I think I may still begin disassembly of the '57 GE dryer which I also believe is suffering from a motor switch issue. It's gonna be a fun summer!!
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Post# 1031965 , Reply# 15 5/6/2019 at 15:50 (1,809 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa) |
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| Post# 1031966 , Reply# 16 5/6/2019 at 15:51 (1,809 days old) by sfh074 ( ) | ||
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Ace Hardware ...... always has a nice assortment of woodruff keys in the hardware section. | ||
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Post# 1032001 , Reply# 17 5/7/2019 at 07:22 (1,808 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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May have found a suitable relay
Yes, I am fishing for suggestions and recommendations here...
I did a little bit of head-scratching and searching and I think (you all know that process is flawed, too.. LOL) I may have found a relay that would work for the heater on the Frigidaire dryer. My thoughts were that I'd need a 240v DPDT relay that could handle 40 amps. This is a damn good match that I found at Acklands-Grainger Canada. Will this work or I am setting myself up for yet another failure??
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Post# 1032031 , Reply# 18 5/7/2019 at 15:20 (1,808 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL) |
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Paul, | ||
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Post# 1032032 , Reply# 19 5/7/2019 at 15:26 (1,808 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Post# 1032035 , Reply# 20 5/7/2019 at 15:59 (1,808 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa) |
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I very well could be wrong, and someone please correct me if I am.
But without seeing a schematic, Paul, I think you might be envisioning an elaborate band-aid that wouldn't actually solve your root problem. So we have a motor, with a centrifugal switch, which enables the heating element only when the motor is running. We have evidence of that switch being mechanically faulty - the terminal is loose. The scorch marks and overheating also show that that switch is not in good health electrically. Now, a secondary relay would offload the bulk of the heating element current... but you still need a way to trigger that relay to close. As we know, for safety, it must only close when the motor is actually running. (Not energized by the timer with *intent* to run, but ACTUALLY physically turning.). The source for this signal, of course, is a centrifugal switch on the motor. See the problem? The very switch which would tell your new relay to turn on, is the switch you have shown is suspect. You don't want to energize the relay from the timer's motor output, as a fault such as a seized motor would allow the dangerous condition of the heating element running without the motor turning. Likewise, you don't want to trust the relay control to the failing centrifugal switch, as who knows how it is failing mechanically, or what fault condition could cause it to close (or stay closed) when not expected. I think you have no choice but to repair that original switch on your motor! | ||
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Post# 1032046 , Reply# 21 5/7/2019 at 17:43 (1,808 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Using a relay to bypass bad motor switch contacts The main purpose of having the heater current go through the centrifugal switch of the motor is to turn the heating elements off when you open the door of the dryer. The door switch of the dryer opens the circuit to the motor and the motor quickly turns off the heating elements.
It would be acceptible to just have 120 V relay wired in parallel with the motor and having the heater current go through the relay contacts to bypass the motor switch.
In the event that the motor fails to run the heating element gets turned on the safety Thermostat, It should will keep the heater from overheating in a disastrous manner. Bear in mind that older dryers like this are not terribly safe anyway, and if you want to add an additional safety thermostat or thermal fuse even that’s not a ridiculous idea but if you don’t tend to leave your dryer running when you leave the house and I certainly wouldn’t leave a 57 Frigidaire dryer running when I’m not around you should be OK with the relay as you planned.
John This post was last edited 05/07/2019 at 18:31 | ||
| Post# 1032059 , Reply# 22 5/7/2019 at 19:41 (1,808 days old) by marty (Central Point, Oregon) | ||
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New bearing Paul, I have an NOS bearing for the dryer if the oil soaking doesn’t work. Let me know Marty | ||
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Post# 1032474 , Reply# 23 5/12/2019 at 15:15 (1,803 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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This week's progress... And I use the term loosely... LOL
I managed to extract the motor from the dryer easily enough. However, when I inspected the switch assembly, I saw nothing glaringly obvious as to the source of the bad connection. Conclusion: the contacts inside the switch must be bad. That being the case, it looks like I will either need to find a replacement switch or a new motor. I am going to try my luck with the local motor shop in Magog later this week.
BTW, it's a Delco motor - I don't believe it's the original one, though. | ||
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Post# 1032475 , Reply# 24 5/12/2019 at 17:50 (1,803 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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| Post# 1032492 , Reply# 25 5/12/2019 at 22:47 (1,803 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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Off subject BUT I liked the setup Kenmore dryers from the 50s had They had a fly weight governor that controlled the heaters if the motor didn't get up to speed the heater didn't heat. | ||
| Post# 1032499 , Reply# 26 5/13/2019 at 00:26 (1,803 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
Norgeway, you are correct about how the WP/KM dryers of the 50’s had some sort of air flow switch, and it wouldn’t allow the heating element or burner to come on until the drum and blower/fan were up to speed, or if the belts broke or some how came off the pulleys. I am surprised Maytag didn’t have a air flow switch on their HOH dryers, and someone created a thread awhile back called I’m a royal idiot, and they apparently dried shoes in their 1959 Maytag Gas HOH dryer. What happened was the belts came off of the pulleys, and they noticed a burning lint smell since the burner was going with no air being pulled through it, and they quickly stopped to see what happened, and they discovered what happened. I can’t seem to find the thread anywhere, but it’s somewhere in the archives.
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Post# 1032510 , Reply# 27 5/13/2019 at 07:53 (1,802 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Back to the relay...
John, I do like the idea of using a relay to control the heater. You had previously mentioned using a 120-volt relay wired so that it would be activated when the motor was running (this would mean that when the dryer door was opened, motor and heater would shut off).
As I am not well-versed in the care and feeding of relays, can you recommended a brand/type of relay to use and the specs? We don't necessarily have access to the same products up here, but I can always buy something from a US supplier by mail and have it shipped to my Vermont address. | ||
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Post# 1032514 , Reply# 28 5/13/2019 at 08:27 (1,802 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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Paul - if you're planning on having a relay switch on with the 120v motor, you could use something like this Omron relay. Not trying to plug Grainger, but you know where I work ;)
www.grainger.com/product/... Also, those Delco start switches are designed to be easily replaced without taking the whole motor apart. The replacement start switch for the C-2415 motor is 4943927. No hits on the 'bay, and the Parts Master shows that this is a pretty specific start switch for the early style flowing heat dryer motors. Not sure if swapping in a switch from anther Delco dryer motor would work to have it switch both the windings as well as the heater. Your saga is a good reminder for the rest of us that a simple relay will help protect these difficult-to-replace dryer motors that switch on the dryer heater. Ben | ||
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Post# 1032548 , Reply# 29 5/13/2019 at 11:47 (1,802 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Thanks Ben! For whatever reason, this product wasn't showing up on the Acklands-Grainger site here in Canada. However, I was able to use my US address and order a couple (one for the Frigidaire and one perhaps for the GE OR the as-yet-unrestored '51 Kenmore dryer).
I'll be picking this up later this week when I am back down in Ogden. Hopefully I won't mess up the wiring... LOL | ||
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Post# 1032563 , Reply# 31 5/13/2019 at 13:27 (1,802 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa) |
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Post# 1032564 , Reply# 32 5/13/2019 at 13:30 (1,802 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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The switch appeared to be 1-piece and even if it was like on the '60 motor Bud included a photo of, with my shaky hands, opening it up would not be a good move. I don't have the 'fine tuning' to be able to braze a new contact properly. It would end badly... I feel much more comfortable using the relay.
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Post# 1034287 , Reply# 36 6/3/2019 at 13:36 (1,781 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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And after all hope was nearly abandoned....
The past few weeks have been far more hectic than usual for some reason and had prevented me from doing any serious work on the '59 Frigidaire dryer after I got that bearing re-oiled.
I had been dithering and debating what to do about the switch on the motor that showed evidence of high heat from a bad connection. I finally 'got off the pot' and bought a relay and installed it. I bought 2, as I may use this approach on the '57 GE dryer (if not, there's a very sad '51 Kenmore dryer that will need it!).
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Post# 1034288 , Reply# 37 6/3/2019 at 13:38 (1,781 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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I had also managed to lose the Woodruff key that was used to hold the drum drive pulley in place. You would not believe what a pain is was to find a replacement one up here! No one, hardware stores or auto parts stores seemed to have them. One bearing shop in Joliette, QC (former hometown of our own PhilR) said they had them, but wanted me to bring the drum shaft in... Nope.
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Post# 1034289 , Reply# 38 6/3/2019 at 13:42 (1,781 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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However.... I made one last try at an auto parts store in Newport, VT when I was over in the US picking up some recent eBay purchases at the post office. I found an assortment pack of Woodruff keys at Advance Auto Parts for a mere $4.27. I found one that fit and well, lookee there - everything went back together again!!
I'm not sure if Canyon was impressed or just glad that I had finished messing with the dryer and would now have time to feed him.... | ||
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Post# 1034290 , Reply# 39 6/3/2019 at 13:43 (1,781 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Post# 1034291 , Reply# 40 6/3/2019 at 13:47 (1,781 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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And the last thing I got to do on Sunday was reassemble the dryer - top put back on and loose wires all reconnected.
Here's a short cycle start test; the timer still runs, drum still turned, but no heat. But that was normal - I only had the dryer hooked up to the 120v supply. Maybe, maybe, maybe this coming weekend I'll have an extra 240v outlet to play with... I wanna see if I figured how to wire that relay properly... LOL | ||
| Post# 1034378 , Reply# 41 6/4/2019 at 12:56 (1,780 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada) | ||
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Post# 1035192 , Reply# 42 6/12/2019 at 19:43 (1,772 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Before I forget again... here's some photographic evidence of the dryer heater assembly all aglow when testing the new relay setup. Seems even I could figure out how to install it. There is hope for me yet.... LOL
The dryer did get tested on both regular heated dry and automatic dry cycles. Thermostats still cycled the heater on and off and the door switch cut power to the heater when the door was opened.
Time to reunite the only other set of turquoise laundry appliances!
Methinks the 57 GE is going to be getting a similar re-wiring come the weekend.
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Post# 1038313 , Reply# 43 7/15/2019 at 09:47 (1,739 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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It's been a while....
It seems I am spending less time down in Ogden so far this summer and when I do, it's messing around with annoying little problems like, oh I don't know, slipped blowers from GE dryers. There has been some fun, too, like moving a couple of very cool vintage washers for foster care in Ogden while their owner relocates.
I was really keen to get my newly-repaired 1959 Frigidaire Imperial dryer back down to the Ogden Laundry room and back in operation. Fate conspired against me, not only with the flippin' GE blower fan, but I realized that I had sacrificed the 240-volt breaker that used to feed the dryer outlet near the Frigidaire dryer's slot to feed a heat pump. It has been worth having air-conditioning in Ogden, but I still needed to power that Frigidaire dryer somehow. Last weekend's rewiring attempt ended in a pow and blown breaker. This weekend, I undid that 'fix' of mine and did it the right way. I had power to the 59 Imperial again. I tested it 3 times before I shot this video. That dryer was never this quiet for as long as I owned it! For once, Hubby's snarky "Are you sure it's on" quip was well-founded!! | ||
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Post# 1038314 , Reply# 44 7/15/2019 at 09:50 (1,739 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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And then.... | ||
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Post# 1038315 , Reply# 45 7/15/2019 at 09:59 (1,739 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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My conclusion?
I can only guess that like with the GE, the blower wheel on the Frigidaire has slipped. I can also only further guess that the first prolonged contact with heated (and non-burning) air caused the fan to expand and slip. I'm a leittle bothered by the fact that Frigidaire fans are aluminum and can't help but wonder if I can ever make this go away. I noticed this scraping sound from time to time ever since I've had this dryer. Or maybe if I can find someone strong enough to tighten the setscrew for the blower onto the motor shaft... I'm just about ready to pull the set and swap in the '53 Westinghouse set but that would be far too easy. I believe one can get to the fan assembly on this style of dryer by simply unbolting the motor from the bottom of the dryer and slipping it out. I will be reading my doctrine and debating what to do when I next get down to Ogden...
At least the turquoise Frigidaires are together again... | ||
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Post# 1038317 , Reply# 46 7/15/2019 at 10:31 (1,739 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Blower Fan In A 59 FD Dryer | ||
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Post# 1038706 , Reply# 47 7/19/2019 at 11:28 (1,735 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Breaking news from Ogden.... I high-tailed it down here last night with the intention of messing with the 59 Frigidaire dryer (again) today. The news is good - the blower fan is not broken as I had feared! The question now is 'why the scraping'... I'll be studying my doctrine carefully on this; first thoughts are that I incorrectly installed the fan on the motor shaft or perhaps I did not reinstall the fan cover plate securely enough. Should be solvable!! And I can contemplate just what the fffff...lipping heck is causing a leak in the 59 Custom Imperial washer (found a puddle when I shifted the washer to extract the dryer... oy...)
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Post# 1038750 , Reply# 48 7/19/2019 at 17:59 (1,735 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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The never-ending repair cycle continues... GGGGRRR! I got the fan secured, back into the dryer, tested...twice... so I put it all back together again. 20 minutes into a heated dry (timed) the scraping started again! I don't get what the smeg I am doing wrong here but it has to be something.... The 59 Tech-Talk for Frigidaire dryers makes mention of ensuring 1/8 of an inch clearance between the fan and housing. Not sure exactly how one is supposed to measure that as the fan housing is inaccessible once the motor is back in place... Is it possible that 60 years of use have weakened the fan blades so that they will expand on heating? Would I be risking serious damage if I just let the fan scrape?? I am sleeping on it for tonight, but I think it is time for me to walk away from this for a while. I will also see if I feel capable of schlepping the 56 Whirlpool out of deep storage and back into the basement tomorrow. The fun NEVER ends....LOL
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| Post# 1038759 , Reply# 50 7/19/2019 at 19:00 (1,735 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK) | ||
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Something is bent or out of square, or out of round somewhere. The metal is the same size as when the machine was new, expands the same. The video sounds like marbles in a coffee can. Belts, bearings, rollers, idler, etc ok? This post was last edited 07/19/2019 at 19:20 | ||
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Post# 1038764 , Reply# 51 7/19/2019 at 19:39 (1,735 days old) by Eronie (Flushing Michigan) |
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Motor mounting slots in baseplate for adjustment? | ||
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Post# 1038768 , Reply# 52 7/19/2019 at 20:27 (1,735 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Blower Fan In A 59 FD Dryers These all aluminum multi piece fans were crap, you can do as Bud suggested and maybe shave off a little of the offending fins but you will likely get it out of balance and it will fail sooner and completely.
We used to see these fans disintegrate and loose two of the fins at a time, check it very carefully for small cracks and signs of the fins starting to separate from the hub.
The best thing to do if you actually want to use this dryer much is to take the larger blower and blower housing from a mid 60s vented FD dryer, they went to a steel blower and the larger blower and housing will do a lot to improve the poor airflow through the heater box that 50s FD vented dryers suffered from.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1039098 , Reply# 53 7/22/2019 at 16:11 (1,732 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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One last try....
And it paid off!
I took the blower and motor assembly out of the dryer for, oh, I don't know, the 5th time, on Saturday. It was screamingly obvious that the fan had slipped. Again. While I was getting a sweaty workout hauling the 56 Whirlpool dryer into the garage for inspection, a thought suddenly occured to me: What if the setscrew for the blower isn't biting, heating up, loosening itself as it turns... Well it made a hell of a lot of sense to me at the time, so I jumped in the car and drove into Stanstead to get to the local hardware store before it closed. I had to come back to put on some pants, but that's a whole other story. So, some blue Loc-Tite was added to the set screw. I let it set for the full 24 hours as directed and.... | ||
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Post# 1039099 , Reply# 54 7/22/2019 at 16:15 (1,732 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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That wee clip was shot on Sunday afternoon, at the end of the second 45-minute heated dry cycle. The basement was like a dry sauna, but I didn't care one whit.
The dryer is now running more quietly than ever. As an added bonus, the water leak I had observed on the turquoise 59 Frigidaire washer was due to a bad washer on the inlet hose. I think I'm done with repairs on this pair for a while. Well, maybe I'll use the GE's for a bit... LOL But I'm not done with dryers quite yet - I made a rather scary discovery about my 56 Whirlpool dryer which I'll be starting a thread about shortly... | ||
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