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Thread Number: 76743
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Old Axion |
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| Post# 1005995 9/4/2018 at 02:25 (2,054 days old) by Ralph611 (Berwyn, Il) | ||
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Hi everyone. Is old Axion from maybe more than 25 years ago still good.? I tried it as a presoak and it really made a dingy tee shirt white again. Just curious. Thanks for any responses.
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Post# 1006008 , Reply# 1 9/4/2018 at 05:45 (2,054 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"really made a dingy tee shirt white again"
Well it would, wouldn't it? The stuff is loaded with phosphates. At least the boxes in my stash are labeled as such.
That being said used one box as an additive to non-enzyme detergents and or pre-soak. Did the job but don't think results are any better than adding phosphates (which one has in spades) to enzyme detergent. Long as they are stored in a cool and dry environment powdered laundry detergents can remain good for some time. Have used detergent powders >15 years old and they still perform well enough. Some may not dissolve easily but, that could also be from various added fillers. Since Axion contains phosphates you want to keep it dry and hopefully the STPP has not converted to much (or at all) into TSP (a natural occurrence over time). | ||
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Post# 1006026 , Reply# 2 9/4/2018 at 07:37 (2,053 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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| Post# 1006054 , Reply# 3 9/4/2018 at 11:08 (2,053 days old) by Ralph611 (Berwyn, Il) | ||
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Good advice Thank you Laundress for your expert advice. As always your knowledge on these items is so useful. You are a wealth of information. | ||
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Post# 1006059 , Reply# 4 9/4/2018 at 13:37 (2,053 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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After the dust settled from the whole "enzymes are a health risk scare", once P&G added them to Tide it was the death knell for enzyme "pre-soakers". Things only got worse as other detergents began doing the same.
Housewives soon realized (prompted by Consumer Reports and other such media), that any detergent with enzymes could be used as a pre-soak product. So they didn't need to purchase something separate. Biz began its product life as a pre-soaker, then morphed into an "all fabric" bleach/stain fighter that could be used in wash or as a soaking product. Eventually P&G killed off Biz sales when TWB was introduced which again made the purchase of two separate products not necessary. TWB killed off Oxydol as well which was P&G's other (and first) detergent with oxygen bleach, and later even got enzymes IIRC. One reason haven't bothered with the boxes of Axion in my stash is just that; have plenty of detergents already loaded with enzymes already at hand. Arthur Godfrey (spokesperson for Axion) took some heat. It seems the man jumped onto the 1960's/1970's environmental crusade bandwagon. He was called out for endorsing Axion (by Colgate-Palmolive) which as one has noted was full of phosphates >40%). Am not going to stir those old pools, but at first Mr. Godfrey denied Axion in any way contributed to water pollution. He claimed he product only contained enzymes and that such things "don't pollute anything". Apparently Colgate-Palmolive never told Mr. Godfrey about all those phosphates in Axion and or he never bothered to read the packet. www.nytimes.com/1970/02/0... www.nytimes.com/1970/02/19/archi... | ||
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Post# 1006060 , Reply# 5 9/4/2018 at 13:38 (2,053 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay) |
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| Post# 1006079 , Reply# 6 9/4/2018 at 16:39 (2,053 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
I wonder 
With a box that old, would the phosphates still be alright, or have they decomposed to TSP?
And would the enzymes still work as intended, or have they lost their impact? Did the tee shirt whiten/brighten because it really had a soak in TSP? No bar code on the box so it's how old? Can't remember when bar codes came out? | ||
| Post# 1006086 , Reply# 7 9/4/2018 at 17:50 (2,053 days old) by Ralph611 (Berwyn, Il) | ||
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Bar codes They came out in the mid 80’s in my area Stan. I work in the grocery industry. And I will look for that yellow brick house. Lol | ||
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Post# 1006091 , Reply# 8 9/4/2018 at 19:05 (2,053 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Haven't performed any scientific tests
But am using a box of Dash from 1950's or so; when wash water drains it is clear, same as when adding STPP to liquid detergents.
Indeed so far have used up vintage boxes of FAB and Gain (both loaded with phosphates) and water was clear. Oh and used up a vintage 5lb carton of Amway "Water Softening Compound) which was a mixture of STPP, SMTP and water glass; again water was mostly clear.
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| Post# 1006157 , Reply# 9 9/5/2018 at 16:09 (2,052 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Clear rinsing
..Good sign!
Don't know how Scientific this little test is, but the pic shows equal amounts of tap water. One with 1 tsp of washing soda, the other with 1 tsp TSP (not STPP) the one on the on the left is washing soda, and I expected cloudiness, the one on the right is the TSP! I fully expected it to cloud up but it didn't. Don't know how if it would cloud up if I'd used well water or added detergent? Maybe not a good way of testing?
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Post# 1006162 , Reply# 10 9/5/2018 at 16:39 (2,052 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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I’m not qualified to know anything about the chemistry, Stan, but in using a lot of my old detergents I often find they perform the way they did when they were new (such as making the water slippery, and not leaving any hard water scum).Some clearly have deteriorated, however. But it’s amazing how well they often still work. I assume any enzymes are inactive, but that’s just a guess.
Launderess, great catch in finding a box of Dash of that vintage that hasn’t hardened into a lump! | ||
| Post# 1006167 , Reply# 11 9/5/2018 at 17:06 (2,052 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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TSP
Will make water slippery..
But being that it's precipitating vs STPP.. And with the question being, when dose STPP decompose and turn int TSP..and how to tell if it has? I assume the clear rinsing is a induction that it's still in fact STPP, but if no cloudiness takes place in the first place, then my question would be.. dose it in the second place (mixed with detergent and soiled laundry? I'm leary about really testing with it in the machine with laundry, because of how harsh it somtimtimes be on fabric. And what yellow brick house? | ||
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Post# 1006194 , Reply# 12 9/6/2018 at 00:09 (2,052 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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"But being that it's precipitating vs STPP.. And with the question being, when dose STPP decompose and turn int TSP..and how to tell if it has?"
There have been some opinions posted about this question over the years, based on (as far as I could see) varying degrees of internet research. But the only way you could answer it for sure in a specific case is to have a chemical analysis done of a sample of the detergent you're using. This may sound totally nutty, but it's become quite common in some quarters for car owners to submit a sample of their motor oil for a "UOA" (Used Oil Analysis) to see how it is holding up, how often it really needs to be changed, or whatever. It's become a bit of a cottage industry. So if anybody really wants to take the plunge and test some old detergent to see if it has decomposed into anything undesirable, it could probably be done. Not by me, though! | ||
| Post# 1006198 , Reply# 13 9/6/2018 at 00:43 (2,052 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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I've heard | ||
| Post# 1006266 , Reply# 14 9/6/2018 at 15:23 (2,051 days old) by Ralph611 (Berwyn, Il) | ||
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Cloudy water Hi Laundress. I just wanted to clarify, no pun intended by what you mean by clear water? Are you referring to the wash water? I think that it won’t be clear. Or the rinse water? Thanks. | ||
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Post# 1006284 , Reply# 15 9/6/2018 at 18:44 (2,051 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes, wash water is "clear"
After the Miele, AEG, or whatever drains off the initial frothy water (if any) what comes out is "clear" in that one does not see suspended solids.
Of course YMMV, and much will depend upon what is being washed and so forth. If you're doing a load of linty towels or something things likely will be different. That being said overall "cloudiness" of wash water normally comes from what was used (soaps, detergents, bleaches and other additives) in first place. Things like washing soda, borax, sodium sesquicarbonate, Zeolites to various degrees are going to make water cloudy because that is what they do. Zeolites in particular IMHO are responsible for much of the cloudiness of wash water and the "dust" you see on finished product. | ||
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Post# 1006332 , Reply# 16 9/7/2018 at 00:14 (2,051 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Oil UOAs
Hi Stan, there's an oil forum where people post results of UOAs. Kind of information overload, but here it is.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Supersuds's LINK | ||
| Post# 1006425 , Reply# 17 9/7/2018 at 21:09 (2,050 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Thanks for posting the link John | ||
| Post# 1007000 , Reply# 18 9/13/2018 at 00:03 (2,045 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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So here
is another test with TSP
This time with a sample of well water on the left, and spring water I got from a freind who lives in the hills here, on the right. 1 teaspoon of TSP was added to each sample, stirred and left for a hour. Both remained clear as shown? Mind you I'm not advocating anyone use TSP for laundry use.. but I fully expected to see cloudy water with both theses samples. This is why I question if a vintage product that once contained STPP has converted/ decomposed to TSP? Without chemical Analysis, how do we tell?
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Post# 1007017 , Reply# 19 9/13/2018 at 05:31 (2,045 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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TSP
Actually was (and or is still for all one knows somewhere) used as a builder and or otherwise with detergents/laundry.
Ecolab had at least one phosphate detergent which used TSP as the builder. Commercial laundries also used it same as any other water softening agent, especially back when soap was the only "detergent" on offer. As a builder trisodium phosphate had much to offer. Due to its pH and other properties it emulsified grease, fats, oils in laundry.Then of course there are the water softening properties. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_... What Calgon was to STPP, Oakite was to TSP. www.retro-housewife.com/1940-hous... kookykitsch.com/index.php/kitche... www.etsy.com/nz/listing/25471613... | ||
| Post# 1007133 , Reply# 20 9/14/2018 at 02:09 (2,044 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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The Oakite
Makes me think of powdered Spic N Span..that I think originally contained TSP in the formula?
I always have some TSP on hand, as it comes in useful for a few things, but deserves some caution, and respect..its why I don't recommend anyone using it for home laundry. I hate cleaning with gloves, so I don't use them but if TSP is in use.. I ware them. Some years back when working in pro laundry and dry cleaning we had TSP but it was rarely used. And when it was used, it was only used as a presoak. About 1 or 2 Tbls was used in warm to hot water. Items were soaked for 15 min only, then machine dumped, spin rinsed, and normal cycle was started with detergent, a soured rinse, then normal rinse. As I recall there was a elderly customer that brought in nasty sheets Obviously not changed often enough, so bedding had a racid smell and body oil. The TSP did a good job of breaking that loose first Then normal process followed. Any blood spots were treated first with Aqua ammonia. Recently I had a greasy pan that I need to clean, so I filled the pan with hot water and detergent and added 1 tsp of TSP soaked for 10 min the poured out. Most everything was gone, just a light cleaning and good rinsing, pan was spotless without scrubbing. Back to the water test..I'm still puzzled why well water spring water remainded,clear with TSP. If I got cloudy water with tap water and washing soda, I was sure it get cloudyness with well water and TSP | ||
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Post# 1007139 , Reply# 21 9/14/2018 at 05:25 (2,044 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Thing with TSP
With laundry is to only use it amounts enough to get the job done, then rinse/neutralize properly.
As have mentioned many times commercial laundries in past and still pretty much today rely upon chemicals and pH for soil/stain removal. Enzymes are all very well and have their place, but when you're doing total wash cycles that measure in thirty to forty minutes places don't have that kind of time. OPL and other laundries where a more leisurely pace can be had are a different story. | ||
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Post# 1007261 , Reply# 22 9/15/2018 at 04:35 (2,043 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Vintage box of TSP powder | ||
| Post# 1007666 , Reply# 23 9/18/2018 at 02:03 (2,040 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Thank you dear for posting
Product above dose not appear to be real TSP?
But a TSP substitute..as indicated on the box. I suspect the small "S" on front of box, is supposed to be some indication. Dosing instructions seem to be a bit much if it was real, or pure trisodium phosphate? At lest my personal experience with real TSP has been..not much is needed to achieve results. And when using TSP, weather for laundry or general cleaning, rinsing is a important step. TSP can be a good first step before a repaint, but you certainly want to rinse TSP before repainting. | ||
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Post# 1007676 , Reply# 24 9/18/2018 at 07:13 (2,039 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Mayhaps | ||
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