Thread Number: 76907  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
P&G 'Ariel' Powder dosage??? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1007814   9/19/2018 at 11:28 (2,039 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

I happened to come across Ariel Powder, 22-washes for about four quid, in Home Bargains, so I bought it - with the full intention of trying it - I won't though, because the fragrance is actually getting to me. I'll pass it to my mum since she uses it.

Anyway, I noticed that the dosage instructions on the box are incredibly dumbed down. Almost as though the great British public are too thick to read instructions. I checked on the Ariel website to verify what I was reading...

"How much washing powder to use: 105ml for 4-5kg, 160ml for 6-8kg, and 210ml for 9kg+. That way, your clothes will always get that superior Ariel clean that you know and love."

To clarify, that's for a combined soft or medium water hardness. Dirt soil level seems to have disappeared, and hard water or filthy togs requires an extra 50ml.

Lidl's Formil on the other hand, has the pretty much bog-standard block dosage chart, giving the usual (4-5kg machines):

Soft: 45ml - 65ml - 105ml
Med: 65ml - 85ml - 125ml
Hard: 85ml - 105ml - 145ml


I thought something was amiss recently in Tesco, when I saw 10-wash Ariel and 10-wash Persil near each other. The Persil packet was amazingly compact and tiny compared to the Ariel box.

Now, how the hell are P&G justifying those dosages? Have they weakened the formula by adding fillers? I thought the general intention of the detergent industry, was to make the powders as compact as possible. Clearly not.

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Post# 1007815 , Reply# 1   9/19/2018 at 11:44 (2,039 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
P&G shenanigans continue...

 And, whilst in Tesco I noticed that there was a 9-wash packet of 'Daz' (Note: no additional wording!).

I nearly bought it - then I discovered a small icon in the bottom corner of the box... I wonder how many folk picked this up, thinking it was just a small box of 'Automatic' powder?

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Post# 1007852 , Reply# 2   9/19/2018 at 18:20 (2,039 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)        
Daz Handwash and Twin Tub

 optima's profile picture
You should have bought it & tried it because i did so not long ago and it was not the traditional high foaming formula.

Post# 1007855 , Reply# 3   9/19/2018 at 18:36 (2,039 days old) by optima (Cumbria England)        
Daz

 optima's profile picture
I picked this up today possibly old stock from Tesco & it is high foaming. Possibly P&G are one of the last to do away with high suds powder.

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Post# 1007881 , Reply# 4   9/19/2018 at 20:39 (2,039 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

Thanks for the info.

Re: Daz: It would have made much more sense if they'd just said on the box, "formulated for all machines & handwash too".

Anyway, I bought a small box of Tesco Bio 'Colour' powder, made by McBride, which apparently has five enzymes in the formulation. It also gives off walloping great whiffs of a scent not dissimilar to Ariel (bleugh!) but I'll give it a try anyway. And the best of it is that in the ingredients list, all the fragrances are classed as allergens! Hah!

"Allergens:
Benzyl Salicylate
Citronellol
Linalool
Geraniol"



Post# 1007882 , Reply# 5   9/19/2018 at 20:49 (2,039 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
@ Optima:

 Is that a Hoover 8 Pulse machine in your photo?
What's it like to live with? Any foibles?

Post# 1007929 , Reply# 6   9/20/2018 at 06:09 (2,038 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Yes

 Having been a long time user of Ariel (and by far my most bought detergent) Ariel has been giving these “dosing” guidelines for a while - “dose for your machine size” as they call it, and whatdoya know, it’s always far too much for us in soft water areas (they must only prescribe for the South).

They have also pushed their doses up, their lowest prescribed dose is now 105ml (was 80) and their “medium” dose is higher than Lidl’s top top dose (as pointed out in your chart)

It does seem that Unliver have slashed their doses down, I saw a 10 wash box of Surf the other day and it is TINY TINY (Doll house size almost), but then their lowest dose (soft water, light soiling) has been 45ml for as long as I can remember, of course more than half of P&G. I’m guessing it must be now less than even 45ml?

Seems P&G are going the other way - anti concentrate.

Post# 1007938 , Reply# 7   9/20/2018 at 08:35 (2,038 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

I wonder what the rationale is behind P&G's thinking?

Post# 1007945 , Reply# 8   9/20/2018 at 09:35 (2,038 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Would

 Dare say it involves money and trying to increase sales; by making consumers think they’re getting more cleaning power with a nice size bigger dose. But of course this is never usually true, your non caring laundry consumer is notorious for overdosing (thinking if that’s what’s recommended, I’ll use more for an even better clean) and also now especially helped along by the fact you can no longer get a powder scoop from P&G for love nor money. So nearly nobody measures out powder anyway.

As well known, nothing would please P&G (and I suppose UL) more than to ditch powders altogether.

Post# 1007955 , Reply# 9   9/20/2018 at 12:56 (2,038 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

It's not for no reason that P+G has been referred to on these forums as `Profit and Gain'!!

I'm using Ariel at the moment, having had a falling out with Persil S+M bio since the reformulation grr.

However I am still dosing Ariel powder as I ever did - from a few sprinkles up to a max of 100ml - in hard water conditions (`normal' loads get about 60ml) and I have suds a plenty / expected results. I don't think the product has changed, I just think the dosing instructions are WAY inflated.

Just my experience.

Also isn't scent an interesting thing? For Rolls, Ariel is way too much but for my nose it's inoffensive and fine, yet I absolutely can't abide the Persil bio powder fragrance........ I would love to learn more about the psychology of fragrances.

So what's the story with the Daz with the small handwash logo (no, I didn't spot it!) - are they just repositioning all Daz? It seems Daz really is the answer to everything - whites / colours / handwash.....they'll have to take the enzymes out too and stick a `Safe for Wool / Silk' logo on!!!

Take care

N



Post# 1007961 , Reply# 10   9/20/2018 at 14:17 (2,038 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
How....

 Have I never heard that?

It's not for no reason that P+G has been referred to on these forums as `Profit and Gain'!!

I like it :)

Post# 1007962 , Reply# 11   9/20/2018 at 14:27 (2,038 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Oh also

 What’s the fall out with Persil S+M @Nickuk?

Not that I will be likely to use (ha yeah right, can’t resist a reformulation), as finally after a long time of not being sure as I use that many different ones, I have decided that Persil makes me itch (not hives welts or anything serious etc, just an irritating itch).

You’re completely right on Persil Bio Powder, I’ve never understood why some have said the smell of Persil Bio is nowhere near as strong as Ariel?

Being as experienced as I am in buying detergents (that I don’t need) - Persil Bio Powder is the only detergent that can fill my entire car with it’s smell on the way back from the supermarket - to the point where I worry the bread and fruit are going to pick up the scent (ok being a bit silly there, but still the question does cross my mind) and it’s not a small car.

Post# 1007970 , Reply# 12   9/20/2018 at 16:16 (2,038 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
@liamy1

 ozzie908's profile picture
Sorry to hijack your thread about Ariel but I bought some Persil bio as could not find a big box of non bio and I have found that it has so much suds my Miele adds an extra rinse every wash it never did with non bio and I have noticed it doesn't clean as well any ideas as to why ?
I am not an aficionado of detergent I have used persil non bio for whites for years and at present am using Ariel professional coloured and thats not as frothy can you shed some light on why the Persil's seem to have changed when it was working really well ???

Austin

Post# 1007985 , Reply# 13   9/20/2018 at 18:01 (2,038 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
@Ozzie

 Hi,

I believe Persil, along with the rest of UL detergents have gone through a reformulation as @Nick mentioned upthread and @Rolls and I have noticed their boxes are tiny now.

I’ve not bought any for a while, but has the recommended dose been reduced? You’ll know more than me on this being a regular Persil user - are you usuing the same dose as what you was using for the non bio? It may well have been reduced due to reformulation.

Even still, the sudsing is very odd, Unilever has the reputation that they always had low sudsing/clean rinsing detergents nailed down; P&G was the one with the bad rep for foamy detergents.

Would normally suggest to reduce the dose, but if you’re not getting adequate cleaning as it is, this probably won’t help (unless of course there is that much suds, the machine can’t rinse the clothing properly, leaving them looking dingy - they would normally feel “sticky” when dried if this is case - have you noticed this?)

Other option suppose, indeed Persil has cocked up the formulation and it is just too sudsy, don’t know why manufacturers would make a detergent more sudsing than before or less effective - it’s infuriating (but I have seen it in the past)

With regards cleaning of bio vs non bio, in theory they should both clean (almost) equally well, with Persil being a top grade detergent, but bio should actually have the advantage on the cleaning front; due to inclusion of enzymes which is far more effective at breaking down all manner of stains.

Non bio tends to have more bleach in it than bio due to absence of said enzymes, so usually will get clothes whiter and can do better with dye based stains (wine, black currant, tea and coffee) - especially at higher temperatures.

Is it the whole wash not being cleaned effectively- ie dingy? Or is it staining and them not being removed as well as they were?

Sorry that is so long winded.

Post# 1008039 , Reply# 14   9/20/2018 at 22:27 (2,038 days old) by liamy1 (-)        
Something....

 To show you (I went in my stash cupboard) it’s with regards to P&Gs off the scale dosing.

First pic is a Tide scoop from about 2 or 3 year ago. Second is a Tide scoop from this year. Third is side by side.

Hmmm something tells me line 1 is a bigger dose on this years scoop. Neither the boxes sizes or stated weights and stated amount of washes have changed.

Magical.

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Post# 1008065 , Reply# 15   9/21/2018 at 07:43 (2,037 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

Once upon a time, I did trust P&G to make decent products with reasonable dosage guides. Now, I most certainly do NOT trust Procter & Gamble.

Having tried Tesco's 'Colour Bio' on bed sheets, the fragrance after the wash was much less than the packet. But I ended up with a headache in the sinus area. Having slept in those sheets, I awoke to a stuffy nose (nasal lining had swollen up) - and oddly, I haven't had that reaction to any other detergent. I think I'll use the rest of that packet for cleaning the bathroom.

I still like Lidl's Formil though! :-)

Post# 1008067 , Reply# 16   9/21/2018 at 08:16 (2,037 days old) by liamy1 (-)        


Oh yes, the amount of unwanted detergent that I repurpose is incredible. Makes a change from its normal exit route (gift or trash) lol.

It still bemuses me that Formil is considered the best biological detergent you can get in the U.K. and I do believe it- I’m still not sold on the smell though.

The one thing where I just about am clinging on to trust for P&G is that I believe (and am hoping) that Ariel offers the best in fabric care - ie keeping wear in fabrics down compared to others, due to their research and wonderful concoction of chemicals.

Post# 1008077 , Reply# 17   9/21/2018 at 15:51 (2,037 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
"Ariel offers the best in fabric care"

 Probably.

There was an old BBC 'Horizon' episode, which had a lady professor measuring up such claims. She was allowed access to P&G's UK research labs, and one of the sequences seemed to infer that Ariel washed with less fabric abrasion.

What we don't really know, is whether someone spent some time looking for the worst example of damage, versus the least damaged sample section.

I think the episode was voiced/narrated by Peter Capaldi. It had Miele and Hotpoint machines in the laboratory.


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