Thread Number: 77365  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Spin Speed Between The Wash And Rinse Cycles
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Post# 1013282   11/4/2018 at 18:29 (611 days old) by Powrbruh (Maryland)        

Can anyone tell me why the newer washers spin so slow between the wash and rinse cycles? I have the Maytag Commercial washer now and I had a LG 5.7 topload washer before that and both spun so slow between the cycles. The soapy/dirty wash water cannot be effectively extracted by such a slow speed.

Post# 1013290 , Reply# 1   11/4/2018 at 19:07 (611 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Leaving aside issues from creasing hot or very warm laundry, only reason can think of for slow spin speed between wash and first rinse, and or multiple rinses is to cut down on water usage.

More water extracted via spinning means more will be needed/absorbed in subsequent rinses. OTOH if leave things say 60% wet, then they won't absorb as much fresh water from rinse cycles.

To be fair there always has been a debate about extracting wash between rinse cycles, at least for commercial laundries.

On one side there are those who feel extracting after wash or first few rinses (if at all) pulls dirty water through laundry. This is a holdover from days when washers did just that; washed. Laundry was moved over to separate extractors after entire wash/rinsing cycles were completed to spin dry.

Others feel that all laundry (at least normal/cottons/linens) should be extracted between wash and all rinse cycles. This lessens amount of rinsing required because dirty water, muck, detergent reside, etc.. are extracted out of wash via spinning. Thus each successive rinse should have cleaner water.

With a top loader am dubious as to results of one rinse after a slow (and short) spin cycle. As you say plenty of dirt and whatever will still be in wash and or even caught between the tubs. But since all the government seems to care about nowadays is energy/water use, there you are.

Post# 1013294 , Reply# 2   11/4/2018 at 19:21 (611 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
You exactly stated the primary reason

Primary reason is probably water saving.
The labels and government regulations don't check for rinsing results.
So, if there is more water in the laundry, you need less to saturate the load and get better ratings.

Second of all, most of the extraction is done below the about 800rpm border.
For an EU FL, 800rpm equals 70% residual moisture, 1000rpm brings you to 60% and 1400rpm to 50%. Diminishing returns, basicly.
If the laundry is still warm, these numbers improove by about 5% as well, so the spin before the first rinse spins better at equal speed.
And the higher you spin the better you have to balance, the more you wear out the machine, etc.
But keep in mind those slower speeds of todays machines are still often equal in extraction power to washers of the past (500rpm might be half speed today but might have been all the washer could reach a few decades ago).

Last but not least, laundry care.

Spinning laundry with soapy water at extremly high speeds can be damaging to even more robust cotton laundry.
The high pressure of spinning at full speed could lead to white streaks, dulling of color and can make rinsing harder.

First of, the verry high pressure paired with the solving properties of the detergent water mixture can extend the color wear by "forcing out" more color. That's why for example Electrolux does a deep rinse after the wash before the rinse on their "Jeans" cycle.
Jeans for example a verry prone to that, especially cheap heavily dyed ones. They suddenly have white crease like streaks across them after a wash.

On some fibres, especially flat cotton like T-Shirts, a too high spin speed after the wash can force detergent to deep into the fibre.
Those fibres swell while washing, but not to the core. Keep in mind that wash tumbling is far less forcefull then spinning g-force wise.
A verry high spin will not only force the water out of the relaxed outer areas of the fibre, but through the core as well.
Getting that out entirely again requires far more intense rinsing.
That can dull colors by depositing residues in a fibre that is totaly busted oped down to the core.

Finally, a too high spin of warm laundry can set in deformations and wrinkles. Those can act as pockets for detergent laden water.
The cold shock of the rinse water then sets these in, making removal of the residues harder.

Of course, for synthetics, the greatest danger is deformation while to hot. This Whirlpool video puts the synthetic situation well:

That is why EU FLs often use stepped spin speeds and times for interim spins.
Cycles often greatly varry the interim spinning procedures as well. A heavy duty cycle today might to more intensive interim spinning. A delicate synthetic cycle for items like sportswear might not interim spin at all.

Post# 1013299 , Reply# 3   11/4/2018 at 19:54 (611 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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simply put...balancing!

short burst, pulsed, quick spins eliminate the extra time to make sure the load is perfectly balanced...

there are a few machines that spend an extended amount of time distributing the load for the final spin, just to find that sweet spot...…

not to mention if it can't, what sequences it must go through to get there, and try and try again....

imagine if it had to do that for every think it takes a long time to run a cycle now!

interesting how some machines, distribute the first time and take off....while others play around, which seems to take forever, if even getting to full final spin at all...

Post# 1013347 , Reply# 4   11/5/2018 at 03:09 (610 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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Faster spin while detergent is still in higher concentration aggravates sudslock tendency.

Post# 1013361 , Reply# 5   11/5/2018 at 08:10 (610 days old) by Helicaldrive (St. Louis)        

That makes sense. Then again, a slow spin speed never stopped Whirlpool belt drives from sudslocking. Although I think they were so prone to sudslock because the spray spins were too short. A good long continuous 1 minute spray like Maytag and GE worked better at clearing a potential sudslock.

And I think the reasoning is that, in addition to that, at a slower spin speed the spray rinse water penetrates the clothes better and thus rinses better. And then less wrinkling is an added bonus, too.

If that’s the reasoning, though, then the ideal would be slow spray rinse followed by high speed spin for maximum detergent extraction before the deep rinse.

Come to think of it, that might be exactly what the last real SQ TL does on Normal Eco cycle. If I remember, it does at first spray rinse at slow speed, then stops, then starts up at high speed with spray. Then again, the motive could solely be avoiding sudslock as stated above. Interesting question.

The dial model uses fast spin between wash and rinse. Only the electronic model uses slow.

If someone would call SQ and ask I betcha they’d have an answer. They’re always very friendly and knowledgeable.

Post# 1013379 , Reply# 6   11/5/2018 at 11:02 (610 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My agitator F&Ps:  spin after wash has one spray at 300 RPM, increase to 670 RPM, reduce to 300 for more sprays, 670 RPM, 300 for more sprays, 670 again, then proceed into the rinse fill.  The number of sprays may change depending on load size (selected water level).  Final spin is choice of 300, 670, or 1,010.  Saturation sprays are at 25 RPM followed by 670 RPM extracts when the eco Shower Rinse option is selected.

AquaSmart does (saturation) sprays at 25 RPM followed by extracts at 670, same whether or not the Fabric Softener (deep rinse) option is selected.

The comforter/bulky-items cycle options on AquaSmart and Intuitive Eco run two deep rinses with no spin between.  The machines pause and beep for attention before the final spin, advising the user to push the item down before pressing Start to continue.  This is to avoid possible damage to a bulky/overstuffed comforter and such items that may have retained air and/or floated upward and would rub against the tub cover during spin.

Perm Press/Creasables and Handwash on the agitator models have two deep rinses with no spin before the first to function as a cool down.

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