Thread Number: 77483
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
The journey with the Maytag Neptune begins!
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|Post# 1014626   11/15/2018 at 23:47 (213 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )  || |
I have decided to keep the used Maytag Neptune 6500 I recently acquired and repair it despite the fact that it does need several repairs.
I have the entire washer apart right now. I took the front off to replace the leaking door seal and decided I may as well replace the bearings as they are relatively cheap, and I already have the machine completely apart. Plus, this will save me from having to to tear the whole thing apart again in another year or two if they do go bad. I wish the door seal was the only REAL issue, but unfortunately that's not the case.
The motor definitely has something wrong. I've pin pointed it down to the 2 bearings inside the motor, as the motor runs fine but makes a terrible scraping noise while running, and is unusually loud compared to my previous Neptune. Any advice for this, what might be causing it, or why it is sounding like this would be appreciated. I know they are not exactly known for problems with the motor so I'm sort of confused on what to do. With the motor apart everything turns pretty smoothly. Both bearings still appear to be good to me. After I put the motor back together and on the washer tonight, the shaft rotated around like normal, but was louder, and then stopped after a few turns. It stopped mid turn-almost like it was binding, and the washer just stopped. The control lights were still on but the motor was off. It did this all the 3 times I tried it. But the shaft turns smoothly by hand, just the sound of a bad bearing. Really dreading the possibility that the motor will need replacing.
The pump impeller has also somehow came off the shaft, I'm assuming from the seller leaving the washer in his garage for god knows how long in temperatures below freezing without using any anti-freeze. I dried the shaft and the impeller off and crazy glued the impeller on. We'll see how that turns out tomorrow. I do not feel like buying a new pump, and I have someone who says he can fix it without any glue. Fingers crossed.
The last issue I have, is more of a question for owners of Neptune front loaders. With my last Neptune, and with this one, as the spin cycle just begins around 100-200 rpms give or take, the basket wobbles for a few seconds, then stops, and does it again and again until the washer speeds up. Its quite loud, to the point where I actually replaced the struts on my previous Neptune, to no avail. The noise it is making is coming from the door seal flexing back and forth as the basket spins, but is the outer tub wobbling like this normal? Because as far as I can tell it is not a bearing issue. The inner tub is still firmly in place.
In any case, I had to get rid of my previous Neptune because the noise and vibration on the spin cycle seemed so excessive. Is this normal? I always do extra large loads, but rarely overload. If a load becomes tangled in my Kenmore HE5T it will also vibrate quite loudly on spin, so I guess it could just be that I'm more used to the smooth spin cycles on top loaders. But still there is no ''thump thump thump *pause* thump thump thump *pause*...'' noise on my HE5T as the spin accelerates.
|Post# 1014633 , Reply# 1   11/16/2018 at 02:36 (213 days old) by henene4 (Germany)  || |
Those motor bearings should just be pressed in as well. If they sound bad and you are sure it is the bearings, try just replacing them. You had the motor apart already apparently, so that's not the hurdle and a bearing shop should be abled to get something fitting.
If it sounds fine when turned by hand though and turns freely, I doubt it's the motor bearings. Any bearing failing behaves similar enough, so the motor should give the same signs as a tub bearing failure: wobbly turning part, rhythmic noise even when turned by hand, all that.
I have two ideas:
a) You reassembled it incorrectly. Motors have tight tolerances and are far more specific with some things. A loose winding might cause odd noise and behaviour.
b) Your motor control unit is failing (MCU for short). Coil whine can sound verry shrill and grindy and can happen when the MCU is recieving improper feedback or sending wrong signals. The motor stalls, makes noise due to the magnetic forces acting on all the wire, it heats up, yadi yadi yadi.
Best steps from here: Check all connections, then all boards for burnt spots or bulged capacitors.
Sadly I can not find a service manual for the 6500. If somebody sends you a link to you you can just run diagnostics and check all motor windings with a multimeter.
A bad MCU or PCB can either be replaced or reworked. Reworking is less then 90$ IIRC and you can find used ones on eBay for cheap like 50$ shipped.
A used motor would probably run you 100$ or less.
Gluing the pump probably won't make it long. They should be cheap as well.
Maybe have an eye open for a cheap parts donor machine.
During low speed spin, the frequency of vibration is verry low and produces noise of bigger parts like the door boot. Those verry base heavy sounds often sound verry loud.
As it ramps up, vibration frequencys rise and with every differen rpm step other parts vibrate and make noise.
Basicly everything has several resonance frequencys. If the washer vibrates at that frequency, the object will vibrate verry intensly due to the waves adding all up making huge noise.
Some people are unlucky and their house\floor has a resonance frequency in the washers vibration frequency range.
If that is the case, the washer can spin as smooth as it wants, your house will shake.
Softer suspension struts are good for high speed spins as they choke the verry short length high frequency vibrations verry well.
They do make for big drum movements though.
Watch a video of a VMW spining unbalanced. Huge swings at low speed, but you wouldn't believe it spinning up to full speed surprisingly smoothly.
Sometimes, moving a washer a couple of inches to one side can reduce noise on unstable flooring.
But yes, TLs spin less noticeable. Main reason is that all vibrations happen paralell to the floor transfering into nothing as the washer usually dosen't touch anything on any of its 4 sides.
A FL transfers all its forces verticly into the floor, making for an energy transfer to surrounding areas orders of magnitude higher.
Best is to mix big and small items and reduce spinspeed on tangle prone loads.
Or select a low to medium spin speed first, then unload the washer, seperate each piece and reloading the piece by piece with an even distribution and respin on high.
Oh, one last thing, both the Neptune and HE5T should have fluid filled balancing rings mounted to the tub.
At low speeds these can cause that changing degree of tub oscilation. The liquid isn't subjected to enough force yet to settle in one position and moves around.
As its weight shifts, the overall balance slowly and periodicly shifts from good to bad back and forth.
Thus the tub rocks, then stops, the starts to shake again even though the load is fixed in place.
Ones it ramps up, the liquid is forced in place and vibration is steady.
|Post# 1014686 , Reply# 2   11/16/2018 at 17:42 (212 days old) by potatochips (Nova Scotia)  || |
I wouldnt even bother with getting the motor repaired at a shop. The cost would negate the purchase of a brand new motor and motor controller. If you go on amresupply.com the drain pump is about $180, and the new motor and controller conversion kit is about $300, you can certainly find this cheaper on eBay or Amazon. A brand new motor, no controller, is about $180 on Amre.
Now, if the tub bearings are nasty, theyre super cheap to replace. About $30 all in, and whatever you do DO NOT buy these off of eBay. Go to Motion Canada and buy SKF or FAG bearings, theyre the tops. If the motor turns nicely with little resistance and feels kinda heavy, and there is minimal/no play in the shaft, Id say the bearings are good. Id be looking at the tub bearings myself, that seems to be the most common issue with these machines.
Check out the link below, I did a bearing job back in the spring on a 4000.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO potatochips's LINK
|Post# 1014694 , Reply# 3   11/16/2018 at 18:35 (212 days old) by gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Au)  || |
I second the use of good brand bearings. I got my LG with clapped out bearings when it was 3 or 4 years old. I replaced them with SKF bearings, they have done over 10 years and are good as new. I always choose SKF bearings when I can, though some are now marked made in China on the box, which is a worry...
I have never heard of FAG bearings, but as a gay man I should give them a try...
to determine if noise is spin bearings or motor bearings, just remove the belt and start a spin cycle. If the noise continues, it is a motor fault. If it is quiet, it was spin bearings probably.
|Post# 1014703 , Reply# 4   11/16/2018 at 19:23 (212 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )  || |
Thank you all for the advice. I will keep that in mind for the future when purchasing bearings. Unfortunately this machine will be going to the crusher. It just needed too many repairs. If I had repaired it I would of been spending at least $3-400 with shipping charges, import charges, currency exchange, etc. I tried removing the motor bearings but they are molded onto the shaft and cannot be removed. Here are a list of the the things wrong with the machine after disassembly-
-Spider arm (very corroded)
-Drive motor bearings
About the only part good on the machine is the control board.
The tub bearings are so corroded that it would be impossible to remove them without either hurting yourself trying, or cracking the tub. The spider arm is so beyond corroded that you wouldn't even be able to remove the bolts to install a new one. It is just too old and cruddy for me to consider investing this much money into it. If I find one again that only needs 1-2 repairs I would consider it but this is just a little over the top.
Besides, my Atlantis is still operating smoothly and is in pristine condition inside and out. Also it doesn't have that moldy odor that pretty much all front loaders seem to have. I have a spare pump and motor for the Atlantis if either of those decide to quit working. I have a first generation Performa in my garage that has most of the same parts as well, and is also in good condition, so when something major happens to the Atlantis I can swap it out with that one and still have quite a few good parts from the Atlantis. Surprisingly, my Atlantis and my Performa both hold a larger load than the Neptune!
And of course I still have my Kenmore HE5T that works quite well. I don't use it often because top loaders are more my forte anyways, but it performs well and is a pretty durable design in my opinion. Both the Neptune and the Whirlpool Duet/Kenmore HE2,3,4 and 5 are all the first of the American made HE front loaders to hit the market, even though the Whirlpool/Kenmore FL's were a German design. I think by the HE5T they had the design pretty much perfected.
However, I still shake my head wondering how Whirlpool has managed to stay afloat with some of the garbage they are selling today. Bearing failure and problems with the electronics are much too common in newer models, both top and front load. I personally would not buy a Whirlpool product made after ~2010. Nor GE. Now that GE is owned by Haier the washers and dryers are just awful, and ugly to look at as well. I roll my eyes walking by them at Home Depot. You could put a hole in the stainless steel tubs just by hitting it with a hammer.
|Post# 1014707 , Reply# 5   11/16/2018 at 19:39 (212 days old) by norgechef (Saint George New Brunswick )  || |
I am a bit scatterbrained to say the least...lol