Thread Number: 77724  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
More CARS being discontinued
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Post# 1017461   12/9/2018 at 14:09 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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Since Ford announce they are discontinuing all cars except the Mustang, and now GM will discontinue the Chevy Impala, Cruze, Volt, Cadillac CTS, XTS and Buick LaCrosse. All are being discontinued to push the crossovers. So I see it those who want sedans will be pushed into a crossover.

Which I don't see why these crossovers are getting so popular. I mean, sure having one or two in your lineup is good. They're a nice height to get in or out and the upright cargo space is good. But I don't see how they have that much more cargo space in back with seats down vs sedan. And some of them literally have almost no space behind the seats.

I also think a lot of them just look odd, like a sedan with the trunk chopped off behind the rear seats. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When they first came out they were novel, like the Ford Edge and a few others, but then they started morphing literally everything that wasn't a sedan so it looks like a crossover. The new Escape, CRV, etc, all have been squished down at the back to resemble one.

It's also surprising that a lot of these crossovers/small SUVs are not appointed as well as a sedan. The pictures of the backseats make it feel as if you were sitting in a bathtub because of the high window lines and straight back seat. They also rarely seem to offer rear air vents like a sedan and overall seem cramped. You'd think they would take advantage of the rear cargo space to make the rear seats recline on more of them, but they don't seem to.

So I'd rather have a sedan or a real SUV like an Explorer or something. I also really like a minivan, but I think they're just too big for me and they are also getting less common to where I wonder if they will be discontinued all together.

Something like a Dodge Journey sized wagon I'd also like but Dodge seems to be the only one that makes something in that size. And I feel like they put a lot more into the Chrysler Town and Country and Dodge Grand Caravan interiors than they did the Dodge Journey. I mean, the Journey has a fairly nice interior, but even loaded up it doesn't have the features of a minivan.

So at the end of the day we all like what we like but why the force into crossovers, or everyone's seemingly sudden obsession with them?

In a way I see it as the station wagon went away because of the minivan, and then the minivan went away because of the SUV, and now the SUV is going away because of the crossover. Yet I don't hear much about that stupid stigma that minivans have applied to SUVs.

I do know the crossovers seem to get better MPG though. Although I was surprised that some newer minivans get almost 30.





Post# 1017464 , Reply# 1   12/9/2018 at 14:22 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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They are just going to force more buyers into buying Japanese, Korean and German sedans. But then with the new tariffs, that is going to make them prohibitively expensive for many buyers. Iíll just hang on to my 2007 Honda Civic, with 59,000 miles on the odometer its still got probably enough life left in it to last me for the rest of my life anyway. Itís been the most trouble free automoblie Iíve ever owned, and when I sit in the drivers seat it feels like an old friend.

The US automakers are going to regret this decision in years to come. And while gas may be dropping in price now,inducing many buyers into purchasing these gas hogs, I can see the handwritting on the wall.

Another recession is just around the corner, and I believe its going to be even worse than the last one that began in 2007. When all these people with the seven year loans on these gas hogs start to lose their jobs, theyíre going to wish to hell they never laid eyes on these beasts of burden. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the gas thats cheap now, ainít going to be cheap for long.

People will never learn.

Eddie


Post# 1017482 , Reply# 2   12/9/2018 at 16:14 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
marketing mistakes...

GM said one of the reasons GM is quitting most cars is so they can concentrate on electric cars,driverless cars,and "ride sharing"services....I actually see quite a few new GM cars in my area...also companies seem to be overconcentrating on marketing to the trendy "millenials generation-a demographic that generally has little interest in driving or owning a car...

Post# 1017484 , Reply# 3   12/9/2018 at 16:24 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
I'd have a hard time going back to a car as my daily driver.. I think I'm like most people and like the higher up seating, and ease of entry / exit that suv/cuv's offer. Not sure where you get that they don't offer all the features as a car., they most certainly do.. I have reclining rear seats in my 015 Forester and there's quite a bit of storage behind the rear seat. and it's considered a compact

Post# 1017487 , Reply# 4   12/9/2018 at 17:01 by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

I guess I'm a luddite, but I still like sedans. My recently purchased Mitsubishi Mirage has exceeded all expectations. I just can't see the need for an SUV. Of course saying that, I still have my Pontiac Aztek which at 14 yrs old is still going strong.


Post# 1017500 , Reply# 5   12/9/2018 at 17:51 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>They are just going to force more buyers into buying Japanese, Korean and German sedans. But then with the new tariffs, that is going to make them prohibitively expensive for many buyers.

I am not up on the details of present and proposed (and threatened!) future tariffs on cars. But I assume they would not apply to cars foreign makers make in the US. And a lot of the popular cars are made here in the US.

Even there were a tariff that impacted, say, a US made Honda or Toyota, there are two points. First, if you want a car, and the only real choice is a foreign car, well, that's the only choice. Take it or leave it. Secondly, even if there is a tariff on a Toyota, that extra cost might get cancelled out if you own the car long enough since it's likely to need fewer repairs.


>Iíll just hang on to my 2007 Honda Civic, with 59,000 miles on the odometer its still got probably enough life left in it to last me for the rest of my life anyway.

With maintenance, I'd guess it should have lots of life left. I'd guess it has a reasonable chance of hitting 200,000 miles.

I know someone who has that generation of Civic, and I've ridden with him. I'm really impressed by that car. It's a car model I'd seriously consider used if I ever had the money to own a car again.


Post# 1017502 , Reply# 6   12/9/2018 at 17:56 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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>I guess I'm a luddite, but I still like sedans.

I'm that way, too. Although to be fair, I've never driven a SUV, although I have driven pickups a few times.

A big factor for me: gas mileage matters to me, even when gas prices are low. Also environmental impact matters to me. Meanwhile, I have zero reason to need a SUV--I seldom go off road (which is probably true of 99% of current SUV buyers), I don't need to haul a huge family, I seldom need to haul furniture, etc.



Post# 1017503 , Reply# 7   12/9/2018 at 18:02 by philcobendixduo (San Jose)        
I am a "Wagon Lover"....

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.....so I have an even MORE limited choice IF I were to need to purchase a new one.
I am still driving and enjoying my 2003 VW Passat GLX wagon which just turned 100,000 miles.
The new Buick Tour X wagon (Opel sourced) is nice but it doesn't get any better mpg than my VW and I HATE (yes HATE) the ugly black cladding around the wheel openings of the Buick.
VW Golf Sportwagen is nice but a lot smaller than my Passat and not equipped nearly as nicely.
BMW, Mercedes and Volvo wagons are WAY out of my price comfort level.
I have promised myself that I will NEVER buy an SUV, CUV, or "cross-over". Don't like them!



Post# 1017504 , Reply# 8   12/9/2018 at 18:11 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I've always had sedans.† My mother has a Buick Enclave.† I don't much like driving it compared to my Fusion.


Post# 1017506 , Reply# 9   12/9/2018 at 18:35 by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Im keeping

My 15 years old Grand Marquis, When I have to get rid of it, I will hunt another one or a Town Car. Suits me and its PAID FOR!

Post# 1017507 , Reply# 10   12/9/2018 at 18:40 by Xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

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While I may not be a fan of SUVs and Crossovers I have been kinda forced in that direction.
I am an American full-size luxury sedan and wagon person. I am 6í5Ē so size is important to me. I had a Cadillac XTS which is the current full size offering, I found to be a touch too small for me, not to mention being a light car and the low profile 19Ē tires made for a poor ride on the country roads I drive, as well as it was about useless dealing with winter driving in Pittsburghís hilly terrain.

At the Auto show in January I spent a lot of time looking at the Buick Regal TourX wagon, but after 2 test drives I found it to be a bit too low, and the roof line was too low for me to fit comfortably.

Since the days of the Park Avenue, LeSabre, DeVille, Grand Marquis etc. are long gone Iíve been forced out of the sedan market. While I do have a Park Avenue itís starting to get rough, so in September I took delivery of a 2015 Buick Enclave.
I like having the extra cargo room, the headspace is great.
It is well equipped with heated leather, 2nd row reclining bucket seats, rear climate control, heated steering wheel, navigation, remote start, etc.
Luckily the Enclave rides like a car and has all the luxury amenities Iím used to from owning Buick and Cadillac sedans in the past.


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Post# 1017508 , Reply# 11   12/9/2018 at 19:01 by JustJunque (Western MA)        
Hans,

Nice cars.
I go through phases where I have wanted a Crown Victoria, especially the police version, a Grand Marquis, a Town Car.
I did drive a Buick Roadmaster for a while, and liked it a lot.
The LT-1 had plenty of power, even for a big car.
But, like I do with all of my vehicles lately, I let it just sit and deteriorate.
Now, we drive a 2002 Ford Explorer, which we bought in '05, (great vehicle), and a 2001 VW Passat sedan that was given to us a few years ago.
That little car has surpassed my expectations. I thought a four cylinder was nowhere near enough motor for it, and that it would die young.
But, it's still going, at 18 years old, and 126,000 miles. When it does need repairs, it tends to be quite expensive though. For example, $1,000 to replace the heater core.
The six cylinder Explorer has 170,000 or so on it, and has been remarkably dependable.

Barry


Post# 1017509 , Reply# 12   12/9/2018 at 19:04 by JustJunque (Western MA)        
Sam,

Very nice!

Barry


Post# 1017512 , Reply# 13   12/9/2018 at 19:16 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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My brother had an Enclave CXL AWD and it was very nice. When he passed away I passed on it. I have a 2014 Silverado that has been wonderful. I have to have a truck with 4WD where I live. It gets decent gas mileage but I dont put alot of miles on it. If I was living back in town, I'd probably consider something smaller.

Post# 1017514 , Reply# 14   12/9/2018 at 19:19 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
its PAID FOR

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The best kind of car!

Post# 1017523 , Reply# 15   12/9/2018 at 20:42 by surgilator1 (Atlanta, Georgia)        

took the words right out of my mouth. all of these cars listed above sound impeccable and taken care of. just don't much care for a unkept automobile. I always taken pride in my ride regardless of age.

Post# 1017524 , Reply# 16   12/9/2018 at 20:50 by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)        
Safe bet:

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The moment the price of a gallon of gas approaches Honest Abe territory, GM's assembly lines in China can retool in a matter of days or weeks to start cranking out sedans and hatchbacks for export to the USA because they're newer than the American assembly lines built mainly to assemble one or two types of vehicle.

 

Either that or they'll be rattling an ever bigger tin cup for another round of bailouts as unsold crossovers and SUVs pile up.


Post# 1017530 , Reply# 17   12/9/2018 at 21:40 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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Is a Subaru Forester really a crossover though. To me it's more like a wagon or small SUV. When I was talking about crossovers I meant more like the Buick Encore, Chevy Trax, etc. Not saying those are bad cars, but that's more what I was thinking of by a crossover. I guess I used the wrong term. I'm talking about 4 door cars that look exactly like a sedan but with the rear end chopped off. IE, no windows behind the rear doors.

I like the Buick Enclave and its siblings. Those aren't what I meant by a crossover. To me those are about the size of a minivan or Explorer.

I guess a pickup would be another option for me. I like the idea of sitting up higher. But I find those again, too big and I don't like regular cabs (too tight and not enough space inside out of the weather) it would have to be at least an extended cab for me. But since a lot of manufacturers only make short crew cabs or full size crew cabs, that would be the most likely choice.

I've never had a car payment on my little 01 Malibu and it's been a very reliable car. But the transmission is slipping, and a rebuild will cost more than I could probably get for the car if it was shifting properly. Plus I'd still plenty of stuff not working or not working right on it, which I've been able to live with for several years. It's still limping along but driving is stressful enough without a wonky transmission every time I go to accelerate.

I just feel like at this point it's alright to upgrade to something else, just the question of what and how much I shouldn't spend on it!


Post# 1017533 , Reply# 18   12/9/2018 at 21:45 by Kate1 (Idaho)        

My belief is that these car companies are moving away from sedans and hatchbacks more because SUVs can be sold for more money. I think thatís why minivans have been discontinued by so many manufacturers too, a seven passenger SUV costs a lot more than a minivan. A lot of these crossovers donít even have AWD or 4WD as a standard feature so they essentially are cars and donít really have any features that justify the higher price. Iím a minivan lady, I donít care what anyone says about them, they are unbeatable as a family vehicle. I plan on driving my Honda Odyssey until the wheels fall off. When Iím no longer schlepping children around, Iíd like a station wagon. My husband has an old Chevy pickup that he uses mostly for work and he has a Honda Fit that we both use for errands without the kids. The Fit will eventually be given to our children to drive.

Post# 1017545 , Reply# 19   12/10/2018 at 00:00 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Youíre right, crossovers are quite a bit more profitable for automakers.

The compact and midsize crossovers to me are kind of a joke in that they tend to be based on their sedan counterparts, but one size down from whatever class the crossover is. So for example a Nissan Rogue is midsize but based on the compact Sentra platform, the Murano is somewhere between mid and full size but based off the Altima/Maxima platform. The Honda CR-V is based off the Civic platform and the Ford Escape is based off the Focus IIRC.
So when you buy a midsize crossover youíre basically getting a lifted up and stretched out compact sedan with a hefty markup, and you still get many of the negative traits of the compact platform like a less then stellar ride quality, add in the poor handling due to a higher center of gravity, worse gas mileage due to a higher profile and often times less cargo & rear seat space than a midsize sedan (however you do get more space vertically). Itís no wonder crossovers are so profitable.

I have driven quite a few crossovers and even had one many years ago and when I switched to a sedan it was like upgrading from an econobox to a Cadillac and I simply just went from a Nissan Rogue to the Altima (I drove a 2018 Rogue recently and theyíre still crap IMO). However, some crossovers have gotten pretty good, like the 2017-present Honda CR-V.

After watching the crossover trend grow and grow, I finally recently concluded with confidence that I much prefer a mid or full size sedan or full size truck myself. If I were gonna do an SUV Iíd do it right and go full size and make sure it has AWD (like say, the Toyota Highlander).


Post# 1017562 , Reply# 20   12/10/2018 at 09:44 by philcobendixduo (San Jose)        
Choices Dwindling

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Besides GM and Ford paring down car production, ALL carmakers have pretty much made BLACK the one and only interior "color" choice which is a no sale for me.
Either this is another "production efficiency" for auto makers (i.e. cost cutting) or American car buyers just go with whatever everyone else goes with like lemmings to the sea.
Most popular exterior colors continue to be shades of gray and silver, black and white. Not for me, thank you!
If I'm going to pay over 40k for a new car, I'm not going to "settle" for a funeral parlor interior because it's the only thing available.
I used to be an avid "car guy" but today's cars do absolutely NOTHING for me.


Post# 1017573 , Reply# 21   12/10/2018 at 11:32 by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
interiors:

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actually gray not black seems to be most common, along with Greige. Oh for the days of red, blue or green!

We'll never go back to a car for a DD, in upstate NY and VT 4wd/awd is a must and we like the ride height of a mid-size SUV (not a crossover); with all the absurdly tall pickups (have you seen the new '19 Heavy Duty pickup that Chevy just introduced?!) & Escalades out there regular cars are just too low for safety, imo. And we have a vintage Chevy and Mustang convert to get the car fix when we need one.


Post# 1017581 , Reply# 22   12/10/2018 at 11:58 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Motor city area guy here, so;

I have decades of experience and knowledge of the industry.
Most customers lease today, so the 7 year good sales cycle/3 year poor sales may be changing.
Smaller sedans never had a great profit margin.
Most prefer an s.uv., or a truck today as well.
A mid size s.u.v. especially gets as good as fuel economy as a similar sized sedan.
The Chevrolet Equinox is also being replaced by the new Blazer. Same size. 112.5 inch wheelbase, 2.5 litre 4, or 3.6 litre V6. Some styling ques from the Camaro.
I saw one this morning. Nice.
Spring Hill plant did not get it. Same CXX1 platform as the Cadillac XT5, but built in Ramos Arizpe Mexico, despite much opposition from the U.A.W.
GM is also phasing out the older Lambda s.u.v. platform. The Enclave was the final product on it.
The new Traverse, and Acadia also share a longer wheelbase and wider version of the CXX1 platform.
If the market demands sedans again later, and Korea, and Japan don't have enough market capacity, Ford, GM, and FCA can import form Asia as well.
The world has changed, the old days are not to return.
Yes I feel sad for plant employees in Lordstown Ohio, Oshawa, Ontario, Detroit Poletown plant, etc.
As much as I loved the car industry in young adult hood, I am glad I never ventured to work in it. I also know what it is like to be displaced from a life long career, and not ever make as much again.
A lot of younger people are venturing into the Canabis cultivating, and marketing trade.
You need to do what pays the bills I suppose. That, or become higher educated, if you are still young enough.
I always felt productive in my job, so if it pays well enough, and offers that, plus some control, and input, at least one can feel productive.
You've got to roll with the changes and punches.


Post# 1017585 , Reply# 23   12/10/2018 at 12:25 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Volkswagen

also reported it is phasing out all gasoline engines by the year 2026. So expect more diesel, and electric vehicles to be introduced.

Post# 1017588 , Reply# 24   12/10/2018 at 12:43 by robbinsandmyers (Hamden CT)        
Typical stupidity from Detroit

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The Brits have a saying called " Missed the plot " and it always applies to our auto makers. Thats why when gas is over $4.00 a gallon again, and it WILL happen. Your local GM/Ford/Chrysler dealers will be giving away gas sucking vehicles with factory employee discounts on cars no one wants while the Toyota dealers will have a 6 month wait on a 50 MPG Prius like last time. Meanwhile the VW dealers will be screwed because they have no diesels to sell. I drive German or Japanese diesels PERIOD. If I cant buy new ones anymore I'll just keep buying old ones. Like my 18 year old 50 MPG diesel Golf with a quarter million miles on it.

Post# 1017593 , Reply# 25   12/10/2018 at 13:11 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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Electric and diesel are not very popular up here where it is so cold. Electric cars dont hold a full charge in the winter and diesels are notoriously hard to start in cold weather.

Post# 1017596 , Reply# 26   12/10/2018 at 13:25 by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
As I have said before.

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I think Ford and Chevy are shooting themselves in the foot.
Much like Chrysler did in the early 2000s. Gas was cheap so they put a Hemi-V8 into everything. Then Gas prices jumped, they had abandoned the lower revenue small car and they couldn't give their monsters away.

Ford and Chevy take warning. Gas will not stay artificially low, and when it spikes it will be 2008 all over again.


Post# 1017618 , Reply# 27   12/10/2018 at 17:54 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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I hate black interiors as well but that was the only choice they gave with the pearl mist (white) exterior. Hubby's car is charcoal gray (basically almost black) which I do not like at all, too hard to keep clean, but it has a nice light gray interior. Even with their top model you're stuck with only one or two interior choices.

Nissan according to an article in the Toronto Star last week are sticking with sedans over cuv/suvs and will probably be the only maker doing so. They're actually betting on having enough customers who don't want an suv/cuv

We pay a lot more for gas in Canada that the US, except maybe Calif. which seems similarly priced.. yet the biggest selling vehicle in Canada is the Ford F150 pickup..




Post# 1017620 , Reply# 28   12/10/2018 at 18:06 by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)        

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I can't be the only person in the world who looks at a Buick crossover and sees a steamed Bratwurst on wheels.


Post# 1017621 , Reply# 29   12/10/2018 at 18:07 by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        

I'm still driving my 2003 Park Avenue Ultra!  It has 145K on it and today got a new battery!  I feed it with the recommended Premium gas and today at Sam's Club it was $2.49/gal.  Down 50 cents since I last filled up 3 weeks ago.    Trunk hold a dead body or all the equipment I need to clean a 4-5,000 sq. foot house each day.  

As I planned to leave Sumas for Wilmington 18 months ago, I spent just over a grand on repairs and since arriving here July of last year I have not spent $200.00!  O.K., I don't go far!  My trip to Hans's last month was the first time I"ve driven outside the tri-county area!  

 

Too many newspapers have stated the obvious!  Truck based vehicles are the current wave!  Here in NC, there are more trucks on the road than cars!  Not for me!

Greg


Post# 1017623 , Reply# 30   12/10/2018 at 18:37 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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"Youíre right, crossovers are quite a bit more profitable for automakers.

The compact and midsize crossovers to me are kind of a joke in that they tend to be based on their sedan counterparts, but one size down from whatever class the crossover is. So for example a Nissan Rogue is midsize but based on the compact Sentra platform, the Murano is somewhere between mid and full size but based off the Altima/Maxima platform. The Honda CR-V is based off the Civic platform and the Ford Escape is based off the Focus IIRC.
So when you buy a midsize crossover youíre basically getting a lifted up and stretched out compact sedan with a hefty markup, and you still get many of the negative traits of the compact platform like a less then stellar ride quality, add in the poor handling due to a higher center of gravity, worse gas mileage due to a higher profile and often times less cargo & rear seat space than a midsize sedan (however you do get more space vertically). Itís no wonder crossovers are so profitable.

I have driven quite a few crossovers and even had one many years ago and when I switched to a sedan it was like upgrading from an econobox to a Cadillac and I simply just went from a Nissan Rogue to the Altima (I drove a 2018 Rogue recently and theyíre still crap IMO). However, some crossovers have gotten pretty good, like the 2017-present Honda CR-V.

After watching the crossover trend grow and grow, I finally recently concluded with confidence that I much prefer a mid or full size sedan or full size truck myself. If I were gonna do an SUV Iíd do it right and go full size and make sure it has AWD (like say, the Toyota Highlander)."

I feel the same way. Now I may be jumping to conclusions but I just never cared for the Rogue or Edge, etc when they came out. Like you say they seem to have less rear seat space and less cargo space than some cars. And to me the features available on some of the smaller crossovers aren't as nice as a comparable car, so they're really a step backward than a sedan in a similar price range.

All that said, I guess the vertical height increase is good from a safety standpoint because as another poster said, there are so many trucks and SUVs on the road these days.


Post# 1017625 , Reply# 31   12/10/2018 at 18:42 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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I don't like a black interior either, especially all black. I guess for some retro cars like the Dodge Charger/Challenger or maybe a Ford Mustang it makes sense. But to me on a cloudy day it's just too dark and depressing, and I live in Florida, so other areas it's surely worse.

And I too have noticed how so many cars are white, black, red or gray or silver. I like something different like a blue, green, etc.

I'm not planning on spending anywhere near $40k for a car, but if I'm going to be driving a car for 5 to 10 years or more, it might as well be in colors I'd like. As for me, looking for a used car it's even harder to find a good one that's also in the colors I'd prefer. The black interiors are very common with newer cars. They seem to have overtaken the gray that was common about 10 years ago. I prefer beige myself, but that seems to be a less common one now too. And some that are beige are more of a weird mustard yellow instead.


Post# 1017626 , Reply# 32   12/10/2018 at 18:59 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Weíve always had lots of trucks and SUVís on the road especially where I live, and in general across the Chicago area, so when I heard that sedan sales had plummeted in favor of them it was news to me. The safety concern about being hit by a taller vehicle while in a shorter vehicle is very valid, although I donít let it bias my decisions heavily. I do have a cousin who got rear ended by a truck while in her Pontiac Grand Prix while she was making a left on a major highway, it hit her going around 60 MPH. She doesnít know how she walked away from it (the pictures looked horrible). She ended up replacing it with a Ram truck after that, and I donít blame her one bit.

As for Nissan betting on gaining enough sedan customers to keep them afloat, Iím not surprised one bit. The only vehicles they really focus on and do really good at are the Altima and Maxima, everything else is either ďmehĒ or a complete afterthought. I still wouldnít get another Altima though, not after all the endless small issues Iíve had with mine. I only keep it around because itís low miles and has the most comfortable seats Iíve ever sat in in a car. If I for some reason did end up with another I for surely wouldnít do a first model year of a new generation again, maybe not even second model year. The CVT transmission is something I never liked about them either, Iíd much rather a Mazda 6 with a 6spd AT or the 2019 Jetta with its fabulously tuned 8spd AT.


Post# 1017635 , Reply# 33   12/10/2018 at 19:51 by super32 (Blackstone Massachusetts)        

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Being in the northeast an AWD/4WD is a must. At least 1 vehicle in the household. I have had several makes and models thru the years. I will never own another Toyota again. It was extremely uncomfortable and the 4 i had were not reliable either. Not that they are stellar, but Ford has been good to me. Lets be honest, you cant beat an F150. We currently have a Lincoln Town Car, Chrysler T&C and Ford Flex. We are absolutely in love with the Flex. The Flex doesnt get the best mileage but its big enough, comfortable, quick on its feet, and moves around in the snow unless its really "deep snow". With all of this said, another F150 is in our future along with the Flex. I am a big boy towering in at 6'4" and 200lbs. Those small thingy's are so uncomfortable :(

Pix attached for fun.


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Post# 1017641 , Reply# 34   12/10/2018 at 21:27 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

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Nice. I don't see many Flex around here. I kind of like them. I also like the Town and Country. I really considered getting one of them, because I feel they're a way better value for the money than a crossover, and have more features. But, for someone who never has anyone else in the car, just seems a bit of a waste for one person.

I sat in an Altima when I was looking for the car I have now, like a 2003 or so. I really liked that car, but the newer ones don't do anything for me.

Toyotas have always been a bit meh for me. There's nothing wrong with them at all and I'm sure they're great cars, but they're just so expensive for what you get in my opinion. I do like the last two gens of the Camry better than I used to. But, a new base Camry with NO options is right around $26,000. A used one with 50,000 miles already is around $19,000. I can get a way nicer and/or bigger car than that from a different brand just because it's not a Toyota. Some people, I know like Toyota and will gladly pay more for less car, because of the perceived superiority of it, but to each their own. I just don't see the value in it, but many do.


Post# 1017650 , Reply# 35   12/10/2018 at 22:15 by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

I'm only 6'1" but my arthritis-ridden body does not like to bend so I see the attraction of the idea of crossovers. I'm on my second Nissan Cube and have no intentions to replace it. I love the ride height and how the back hatch opens like a door so no chance of head injury. The back seats not only recline, but can slide back toward the cargo area so 4 six-foot-plus guys can all have legroom at the same time. I can fold down the back seats and carry a full sized washer. I get 26mpg around town and 30 on highway trips at 80mph with a/c blasting. And at 159" long, my Cube can park almost anywhere. I do wish it had AWD, but I have chains if I need them... haven't yet.

When my first Cube was rear-ended and totalled last year I looked at all the crossovers and they were all too big, too expensive, and got shitty gas mileage.

As has been pointed out, gas prices won't remain artificially low forever.

Jim



If I were, it would be a 2015 Cube (the last year imported) or a Ford C-Max.



Post# 1017656 , Reply# 36   12/11/2018 at 01:53 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>Toyotas have always been a bit meh for me. There's nothing wrong with them at all and I'm sure they're great cars, but they're just so expensive for what you get in my opinion.

I have a hard time getting excited about Toyota, myself. BUT I know a lot of people have them, love them, and would never consider any other brand.

The big selling point seems to be reliability and long service life--at least historically. I know of people who have a 20+ year old Toyota that just seems to keep going on and on.

Of course, a new Toyota might not be that good. I've heard some say a 2018 Camry won't last as long as a 1998 Camry (partly because of how complicated the cars are). But the buyer perception is still "Toyota makes reliable cars that last forever!" And so Toyota can charge more than Kia, and get away with it.

As I said above, I have a hard time getting excited by Toyota. I can even go further and say a Toyota Corolla (late 80s? maybe early 90s?) I once test drove was a car I positively HATED. I could not get it back to the dealer fast enough. But Toyota is on my list of cars to consider if I can ever afford to buy a car. Not exciting, but it seems like one of the better gambles. Given how poor I am, I'd be realistically stuck with a car that was made when Bill Clinton was in office, and has a quarter million miles-plus on the odometer.


Post# 1017671 , Reply# 37   12/11/2018 at 08:02 by Xraytech (Rural southwest Pennsylvania )        

xraytech's profile picture
Before choosing an Enclave, I was considering a Ford Flex. They are rather common here.
I would have got one in the same red as the one Scott has, unfortunately since I wasnít looking to order a new one, I could not find a Flex, even in Limited trim that had the 2nd row bucket seats. At least on the Enclave the bucket seats are standard


Post# 1017676 , Reply# 38   12/11/2018 at 09:38 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

I've always liked small cars myself.  I learned to drive in a Mercury Lynx aka Ford Escort.  Town Car's and the Escalade are the largest vehicles I've ever owned and driven but it's easier to get around Nashville in a cracker box car.


Post# 1017688 , Reply# 39   12/11/2018 at 12:34 by ken (Ulster Hgts, NY)        

ken's profile picture





Post# 1017740 , Reply# 40   12/12/2018 at 05:00 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture
@ Joe...

"I can't be the only person in the world who looks at a Buick crossover and sees a steamed Bratwurst on wheels."

Exactly !!! Hahahaha. Too Funny. Like the Nissan Cube was dubbed "A Toaster". But for some reason I like the Cube.

Have to say, I will stick with my Tacomas. Been driving them since 1986. I take good care of them and they take good care of me. Presently my "Baby Boy" 2004 Tacoma has 180,000 and runs like the day I brought it home.


Post# 1017764 , Reply# 41   12/12/2018 at 11:18 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
The Flex is very roomy!

Also seats 7. However, as the new Continental is on the newer Cd-4 platform (Edge, and MKX) and the Flex, as well as the Explorer, the Lincoln MKT, and now defunct Taurus share the old D4 floor pans, etc., I expect they will be also gone before long. It was tweaked from the first Volvo S-80 platform which Ford inherited when they bought Volvo. Not to say they will all be discontinued, but redone like the Edge was, and or renamed as well.

Post# 1017777 , Reply# 42   12/12/2018 at 15:16 by kskenmore (Kansas)        
Town Car

I'm 6'6" so many cars don't fit me. I drive a 21 year old Lincoln Town Car and love every minute. Paid $1,750 almost 3 years ago and will drive it until the transmission drops out of it. Hoping to get another 50,000 miles! When it dies, I'll buy another Town Car. Hopefully find another good 1995-1997. I had a 2003 and it was not near the car my 1997 is.

I am sad to see American car manufacturers leave the sedan segment.


Post# 1017784 , Reply# 43   12/12/2018 at 15:50 by JustJunque (Western MA)        
Kskenmore

Agreed. The '95 to '97 Town Cars are some of my favorites.
I also love the style that ran up until maybe 1987 or '88.
Of course, ten years older, ten years more wear and tear/problems.
Back in my show car days, I once had a '77 Ford LTD Landau for a winter car, which always looked and felt somewhat "Lincolny" to me. I loved that car. To heck with the haters!
In the rust belt, or wherever I live, those Fords were notorious for rear bumper rust.
About a block away from work one morning, mine plum fell off in the middle of the road.
I went back, put it in the trunk, and went on to work.
At least I think that was me.
I've been home from work sick since last Friday, and I think I might be starting to lose what's left of my mind.

Barry


Post# 1017826 , Reply# 44   12/12/2018 at 22:14 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
"Also seats 7. However, as the new Continental is on the newer Cd-4 platform (Edge, and MKX) and the Flex, as well as the Explorer, the Lincoln MKT, and now defunct Taurus share the old D4 floor pans, etc., I expect they will be also gone before long. It was tweaked from the first Volvo S-80 platform which Ford inherited when they bought Volvo. Not to say they will all be discontinued, but redone like the Edge was, and or renamed as well."

Technically the Taurus is being made until next March so not quite defunct, but I know what you mean.

I'm considering a used Taurus for my next car. I'm just waiting for a dealership to get a used Limited so I can see how they drive and if I like it from the driver's seat. That and a Fusion.

I like the Explorer too but it's too big for what I need (and expensive).

Let's see, the Charger is still made, I had one for a rental, and I liked it overall. It just felt wide on the road because the body stuck out on each side like a 60s or 70s car. I could definitely tell it didn't get as good mileage as my Malibu but it's also a lot bigger.

It's annoying when parking in parking lots these days with so many large vehicles next to you. I tend to park where there are more open spaces to avoid problems backing up, but usually when I come out, I'll find a big truck or SUV has parked next to me and blocks the view of who is coming.

Supposedly backup sensors help a lot with cross-traffic, but I don't know I trust all of these gadgets. If a car is zooming through the parking lot like many these days with no regard for pedestrians or drivers, it's be too fast for any sensor to help.


Post# 1017829 , Reply# 45   12/13/2018 at 00:41 by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)        

I find this clip on You Tube, and its rather interesting to watch, but I think the European Auto industry is on rocky territory as well. Daimler-Benz already predicted a downward swing of things.

Regards,


CLICK HERE TO GO TO mieleforever's LINK


Post# 1017851 , Reply# 46   12/13/2018 at 08:55 by kskenmore (Kansas)        
Barry

Sorry to hear you are home sick! Praying you get well soon!

The 70's Lincolns and Cadillacs are some of my favorites! A 1979 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance was my first car. Probably why I'm still in love with big old rwd sedans.

The 80's Lincolns do look good, but they are not fun to work on! They aren't near as reliable as the 90's and newer Town Cars. I think 1996 is the sweet spot for Town Cars. For 97 they de-contented them a bit. Losing the engine bay light, engine cover, Lincoln emblem in seats, trunk lock cover, lights in the reflective bar between tail lights... that's all I can think of for now.

Once I was driving my 79 Cadillac and the whole exhaust system fell off from behind the cat! Had to get that fixed in a hurry. The 425 V8 was noisy!


Post# 1017853 , Reply# 47   12/13/2018 at 10:33 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

It's annoying when parking in parking lots these days with so many large vehicles next to you. I tend to park where there are more open spaces to avoid problems backing up, but usually when I come out, I'll find a big truck or SUV has parked next to me and blocks the view of who is coming.

 

Amen to that!  I park in the parking garage at work and I back in so I don't get slammed trying to back out in the morning when people are running the Indy 500 trying to get out of that garage.  Never fails someone whipped in on two wheels skinning it trying not to be late, park crooked, and too close.  A couple of days ago I could barely get into my little Bug because of this.  I'm about to order some of those "terrible parking award" cards and start handing them out!


Post# 1017859 , Reply# 48   12/13/2018 at 11:52 by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
who is that Scotty idiot...

firedome's profile picture
and why would anyone believe someone whose garage and yard look like a bomb went off in a junkyard? He acts like he's 3 sheets to the wind or maybe he just took his hit of meth for the day. Contrary to what he says, GM does makes some decent cars these days, and it IS about the market.

Post# 1017872 , Reply# 49   12/13/2018 at 12:43 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
I guess we're going back to this...

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

 


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Post# 1017875 , Reply# 50   12/13/2018 at 13:14 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        
Re: Reply#49

ea56's profile picture
If only! Yes, technology is vastly improved today, but what craftsmenship they had back in the 30ís, 40ís, 50ís and early 60ís. To me, after 1967, the zenith of American automobiles, at least design wise, American cars took a dive in quality, and were never quite the same again.

And the simplicity compared to todays complicated, computerized automobiles is a thing of beauty too. Last time I had major service done on my 2007 Honda Civic, the dealer kindly gave me a brand new 2018 Civic as a loaner. The controls and dash are too distracting, and much of the stuff is just not necessary.

That touch screen crapola for the heater and AC, and audio is much more difficult to use than plain old fashioned knobs and buttons. And I believe, with the heavier traffic today, these things cause more distacted drivers and probably more accidents, that could otherwise have been avoided.

And back then many more people were able to do routine maintance and repairs on their own cars. Now not so much.

I guess Iím just officially an old geezer. LOL I want to drive my car, not have it drive me.

Eddie


Post# 1017881 , Reply# 51   12/13/2018 at 15:45 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>And the simplicity compared to todays complicated, computerized automobiles is a thing of beauty too

No kidding.

I've heard so many complaints about new cars being too complex. And I feel overwhelmed, myself, just looking at the photo of a modern car's interior.

And yes, I also think touch screens are potentially too complicated/distracting for handling basic functions.

Oddly, though, I was talking with an owner of a 2009 Civic (which I mentioned above), and he's contemplating replacing the car in the coming months. I don't think he's thrilled at the complexity of a new car, but he did say that one plus he sees are new safety technologies that his current Civic lacks.


Post# 1017942 , Reply# 52   12/13/2018 at 23:53 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

I'm glad our MKS has an off setting for the radio/nav/climate/phone screen.  I turn it off after dark because it's just too bright and glares at night even with it dimmed all the way.  Ford programmed it to default back to on every time the car is turned off and restarted.  GM didn't do that and in our previous Cadillacs it had to be turned back on manually every time.  It used to make Tony so mad when I'd turn it off because he didn't know how to turn it back on.  I actually liked the dash layout of our previous 2010 model better...it had knobs and buttons instead of touch pads and touch slide pads.  Lincoln has already had to replace the module in our new one because it started turning the radio up by itself and they couldn't figure out why.  I'd rather have an knob or actual button.


Post# 1019029 , Reply# 53   12/24/2018 at 22:41 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Face it: Weíre locked into vehicles which are apt to be more expensive, in my case payment-wise, heavier on the road, therefore the licensing becoming more expensive, and as my pay seemingly goes down, without working ever more, my insurance goes up...



ó Dave


Post# 1019344 , Reply# 54   12/28/2018 at 22:29 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
"I'm glad our MKS has an off setting for the radio/nav/climate/phone screen. I turn it off after dark because it's just too bright and glares at night even with it dimmed all the way. Ford programmed it to default back to on every time the car is turned off and restarted. GM didn't do that and in our previous Cadillacs it had to be turned back on manually every time. It used to make Tony so mad when I'd turn it off because he didn't know how to turn it back on. I actually liked the dash layout of our previous 2010 model better...it had knobs and buttons instead of touch pads and touch slide pads."

I just got a Taurus and drove tonight and the bright white radio screen was about to blind me. I figured out it has a night setting similar to some forums, which makes black background which is much better on eyes. It was set to auto but for some reason it doesn't seem to change when the headlights are on.

Gosh I hope I don't have problems with this one. I came from a 2001 Malibu which was so much simpler to change a/c or radio settings and not all these gizmos and doo dads. LOL This Taurus just has the touch screen or a black panel with flat buttons to change the radio/climate settings. There's a knob for the volume but that's it. A lot of fiddly stuff, makes me wonder if I should have gotten an SE or SEL with just knobs instead. But you still can't get away from all the electronic stuff on any car these days it seems. Yet I think the radio on that Malibu sounded better than this Sony system on a Taurus. lol

I'll get used to it, I keep telling myself I bought this because it would be fun... now I just have to get used to driving it.


Post# 1019374 , Reply# 55   12/29/2018 at 11:14 by JustJunque (Western MA)        
Cole,

Congratulations on the new car.
Is it new new, or new to you?

I drive a 2012 Ford Focus at work, and after a couple of years in it, I still haven't figured out all of the controls in the center of the dash.
It's not a touch screen system, but there's just buttons galore.
I'm sure the owners manual would be helpful, but they bought the car used, and the manual didn't come with it.

Barry


Post# 1019481 , Reply# 56   12/30/2018 at 11:48 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
Thanks Barry. It's a 2016, but only has 13,000 miles and still smells and looks new (other than a few little marks on the bumper and door handle). I don't plan to ever buy a brand new car. My first car was 9 years old and had just over 20,000 miles. It was a simple car but I loved it.

I haven't figured out probably half the stuff on this Taurus. I looked at the window sticker and it has everything BUT AWD. It's a little hard to take in, because we never had much more than a base to mid range equipped car. And I don't know if I like it all or not. I'm not bragging, as I don't find all the gadgets something to boast over.

The backup camera I find really useful and the sensors that alert if someone is coming into your path. And the mirrors have the blind spot warning lights which helps, because what I don't like is this car has BIG blind spots in the back pillars. I wish they had made this like the Fusion or any previous Taurus and put the little quarter windows back there.

I test drove a 2016 Fusion too which was a beautiful car and I really liked it too. But I thought the Taurus handled smoother and I was used to a V6 since that's what I had before. It also wasn't much more than the Fusion of the same year. The Fusion was just about as complicated.

A friend of mine has a Focus hatchback. Seems like a good car, I looked at one but it sold before I could test drive it. I heard bad things about the newer Focus transmissions though, so I kind of decided to stick with a Fusion or Taurus.

I hope to have this car for 10 years at least. We will see how it lasts. Crossing my fingers.


Post# 1019513 , Reply# 57   12/30/2018 at 17:22 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
I'm pretty sure 2016 is beyond complicated...

I know someone who has some sort of new Toyota, and she was complaining about the complexity. I think her approach is to learn just what she needs/wants to know, and forget the rest.

I rode about 9 years ago in one woman's Focus. I can't remember how old it was at the time. But I was actually impressed by what I saw of that car. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who was biased towards foreign makes. That Focus was far better than the cheap small Fords of the 80s. No idea what newer Focus models are like, though.

As for transmissions...I'm surprised at how many automatic transmission problems I hear about, and from companies that I'd never guess have a problem. Honda, for example, although Honda isn't apparently the company it was in the 80s. That said...I've also heard that a lot depends on how the transmission is treated. There are people who have a "known weak" transmission, and yet had zero problems with even significant miles. They've maintained the transmission aggressively, and they have driven sanely.

If you carefully maintain the Taurus, and treat it well, I think it's reasonable to expect 10 years. Certainly, at the least, barring any horrific design flaws, I'd guess it should go 100K miles with little trouble.

Then, in 10 years, you can replace it... And if cars keep changing as they are, you can then come here to talk about how much more complicated the 2026 car is compared to your simple Taurus. LOL


Post# 1019515 , Reply# 58   12/30/2018 at 17:28 by JustJunque (Western MA)        
Focus transmission

Yeah. The one I drive at work had that issue.
It would buck on take-off like someone trying to learn how to drive a manual transmission.
Then, sometimes it would just randomly downshift while you're driving.
At one point, it lost reverse completely.
Ford did extend the warranty on the transmission out to something like 150,000 miles.
It went back to the dealer a few times before they got it right, but it drives nice now.
It's horrible in snow, but you probably wouldn't have to worry about that in FL.
I'm told that it's better if you turn off the traction control.
If I'm unfortunate enough to have to drive it in snow again, I'll have to try that.
I hope you really enjoy your Taurus once you get through the learning curve!

Barry


Post# 1019550 , Reply# 59   12/30/2018 at 22:58 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

The only car Iíve ever had transmission issues with was a 2010 Fusion with the 6F35 transmission. They started at only 6,000 miles and lasted the rest of the time with that car.

Nissans are notorious for going through CVT transmissions and I havenít had an issue yet, my uncle has a 2012 Maxima with 210k on it and on the original trans.

I honestly donít believe transmission issues are caused by how one drives a car unless theyíre SUPER hard on the car ALL the time, I mean to an extreme, but the car would be having other issues relating to being driven too hard at that point. If otherwise was the case then anyone but granny footed drivers in my area would be going through transmissions like crazy.

With that said I do think maintenance is a big help in prolonging their life, just recently got my mom to take her car to the mechanic to do a fluid change at 71k and it came out pretty dirty. I had noticed it resetting to 1st while coming to a stop a bit roughly when I had driven it prior to that, now itís back to its smooth self.


Post# 1019650 , Reply# 60   12/31/2018 at 21:47 by Ultralux88 (Denver)        

ultralux88's profile picture
Personally, I prefer the full sized truck and SUV category over a crossover. I have a thing about body on frame, truck based vehicles. The kind of cars I prefer havenít been made in a while, the big, long land yachts that went away in the 90s...

Post# 1019659 , Reply# 61   1/1/2019 at 01:11 by thomasortega (We have a famous sign, earthquakes, bushfires and weed)        

1 of the many reasons: Safety!

Having survived a 100 mph+ accident (4 sequential collisions and airbags failed to deploy) made me wonder: Would Darryl and I be alive if that night I was driving a sedan instead of a SUV?.

When what was left from his Toyota Rav 4 stopped, Darryl and I just released our safety belts and walked out of the vehicle. If it was a smaller car, instead of that, the coroner would probably need a squeegee or a shopvac to pick up our remainings.


Post# 1023039 , Reply# 62   1/30/2019 at 11:20 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Yes, on the bright side is that, and with 4WD also an industry standard in SUVís, the less likelihood of being stuck in snow, knowing AAA and other towing services have enough work on their hands...

Somehow even when my Jeep is not yet switched into the 4WD mode, I find it does get me through those treacherous conditions with great agility, especially considering I had a FWD Chrysler 200 before that...

So between those two, alone, thereís simply no comparison which is better and drives more easily through ice and snow...



ó Dave


Post# 1023060 , Reply# 63   1/30/2019 at 15:14 by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

We were just picking up my husband's new drive (he just completed a 2 year lease on a Cruze ($113/month lease, 0 down, 24 months 10k miles/year) and switched to an Equinox ($182/month lease, 0 down, 24 months 12k/year). The ultra-cheap leases are gone, but employee pricing plus discounts discounts discounts. The dealer (the dealer situation in metro Detroit is weird--this dealer is M-F only, with M and Th until 9. There are a few dealers with limited Saturday hours) was talking--they sold roughly 800 new vehicles in December, and 80% of those were Equinoxes (Equinox is the best selling vehicle in SE Michigan; and it's what GM is promoting at the moment).

Post# 1023121 , Reply# 64   1/31/2019 at 03:53 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

Well Cole, I can tell you that Taurus will take a lick in a crash and the cabin remain largely intact.  I have pics to prove it from Tony's wreck in our last MKS. 


Post# 1023124 , Reply# 65   1/31/2019 at 04:58 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Another good point, is the hatchback... I often even now before I have to carry anything extraordinarily big, would have done without a huge lift gate, vs. the small and narrow channel of a trunk I've had to make do with and had been limited and hindered by for years...

But somehow, however, my SUV, classified as a station wagon, is still an SUV...



-- Dave





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