Thread Number: 7804
Best/Worst Ever Concensus
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Post# 150933   8/27/2006 at 20:46 (6,422 days old) by historyman (Pittsburgh, PA/Aiken, SC)        

historyman's profile picture
Ok. Let's get some concensus here. I apologize if this has been discussed previously but...........here we go:

What, in your opinion, was the best automatic washer ever made?

What, in your opinion, was the worst automatic washer ever made?

What, in your opinion, is the best automatic washer currently made?

I'll stand back now......... ;o)





Post# 150960 , Reply# 1   8/27/2006 at 21:27 (6,422 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Oh, you're opening a big, bad can o' worms, here.

But since you asked....

BEST VINTAGE MACHINE: Unimatic Frigidaire

WORST: The European/UK contingent will have a field day with some of their brands, but I vote for WCI-made late 1980's era Frigidaires and whatever other brands they ruined---Westinghouse, I suppose. I had one of the Frigidaires and it was not a good machine by anyone's standard.

BEST CURRENT MACHINE: Non-US: Miele; US-Whirlpool, both TL and FL.

Next!


Post# 150973 , Reply# 2   8/27/2006 at 22:22 (6,422 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)        

Best,as in most reliable ever made,the old Maytag Dependable Care Helical Drive machines.Best,as in overall ,
from back "then",the Unimatic Frigidaires.Best combos were,of course ,the Bendix Duomatics.Best old dryers,the Hamiltons.
Today's Best washers are the Speed Queens,followed by the Kenmore version of Whirlpool,since Kenmore has more features for the money.Today's best dryers are the Kenmore-Whirlpools.
As for the worst,the WCI family of washers and dryers from 1980
thru the mid 1990s.After Electrolux bought them out,the quality has improved.Today's worst washers are the TL GEs


Post# 150999 , Reply# 3   8/27/2006 at 23:10 (6,422 days old) by thirtyater ()        

WORST - that we have owned would be Frigidaire Rollermatic

BEST - We have never owned one but I would say Maytag


Post# 151001 , Reply# 4   8/27/2006 at 23:16 (6,422 days old) by pturo (Syracuse, New York)        
Best/Worst

Best Ever Made: Maytag Dependable Care. Worst ever made: Fridgidare White Westinghouse merger machines. Best automatic washer currently made is the Whirlpool front load Duet.

Post# 151018 , Reply# 5   8/28/2006 at 03:35 (6,422 days old) by sudsman ()        
best and worst

I far I am concerned the best the Frigidaire 1-18
The worst ANY thing by WCI

Best Dryer Hamilton Now Really not sure ,,, Sudsman


Post# 151033 , Reply# 6   8/28/2006 at 06:18 (6,422 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        
HUM

christfr's profile picture
well the best we or i have ever had in a vintage machines was and still is either a pool or a tag and i can for sure say the worst is a rollermatic..

Post# 151037 , Reply# 7   8/28/2006 at 06:29 (6,422 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        
ha ha

christfr's profile picture
but then again if were talkin about pure fun and best cleaning it would be either the unimatic or 1-18 frigidaire

Post# 151050 , Reply# 8   8/28/2006 at 07:53 (6,422 days old) by robm (Buxted)        

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I can only speak as a Brit but in my experience the following seems to be true -

The best automatic ever made to be sold in the UK in my opinion is and still is the Miele range. Strong, sturdy, smooth operation/noise and no nonsense programmes.

The worst, well where do I start. I've seen some rubbish in my time. The early Indesit's only drained when the machine spun, hence little distribution and spinning while full of water led to very violent spinning.

Hotpoint in the early 90s seemed very cheap and noisy with weak suspension. Hoover too do not seem to have the build quality anymore. I think the worst I've seen is a make called Jackson but that I think was just a Hotpoint under another name and dated from the mid 90s.

Please feel free to contradict me though, this is just my view.

Rob


Post# 151074 , Reply# 9   8/28/2006 at 09:22 (6,422 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
We've always had the best

For washers...
1970 Kenmore 800
1983 WP
1991 Maytag

But in the Direct-drive era, my mom's Shredmore Elite just shreds on my nerves, but it's not the worst. THAT honor goes to my mom's WCI Frigdaire lint machine that was back in Chalmette. I do NOT miss that machine being ruined by Katrina.

As for me and Helen, we the BEST of the BEST... Kenmore OasisHE.


Post# 151092 , Reply# 10   8/28/2006 at 10:17 (6,422 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
In my humble opinion it’s really hard to say, no washer is really that superior over another because for every advantage you can usually cancel out with a disadvantage. You really can only do this by breaking it down into subcategories. Personally I will only rate machines that I have hooked up and have used for quite some time in the recent past. I don’t like making ratings based on memories, because I have found time and time again that what I remembered from 20 years ago was so different than my actual experience once I found and began using a specific machine again as a collector.

Washing Ability:
Best: Whirlpool with Surgilator
Worst: Early Bendix Bolt Down

Rinsing Ability:
Best: Frigidare Unimatic
Worst: Belt Drive Whirlpool/Kenmore (which can quickly cancel out best cleaning)

Gentleness on Fabrics:
Best: Bendix Front Loader
Worst: Whirlpool with Surgilator style agitator

Water Extration
Best: AW6 Style General Electric with ribbed wash tub and 9 minute spin
Worst: Tie: Early Bendix Bolt Down/Whirlpool Combo

Best Pet Hair Removal:
Best: GE Filter-Flo Washer
Worse: Tie: Maytag AMP/Bendix Power Surge

Least Tangling of Clothes:
Best: Any General Electric Washer
Worst: Westinghouse Slant-Front

Capacity and Turnover in a 8lb style wash tub:
Best: Philco Automagic and Frigidaire Unimatic
Worst: Tie: Speed Queen and Norge

Sand Disposal:
Best: Westinghouse Slant Front
Worst: Tie: Early Frigidaire Unimatic with perforated white tub and Maytag AMP

Unbalanced Load Handling:
Best: Philco Automagic
Worst: Tie: Whirlpool and Early AW6 GE

Water Usage:
Best: Frigidaire Unimatic
Worst: Hotpoint

Least Waste of Time:
Best: Frigidaire Unimatic
Worst: GE Harmony

Most Fun Washer to Have:
#1: Frigdaire Unimatic
#2: ABC-O-Matic/Kelvinator
#3: AW6 GE

Least amount of Repair Trouble once fully restored (properly):
Best: Tie: Frigidaire Unimatic and ABC/Kelvinator
Worst: Tie: Whirlpool Combo and Norge.

Easiest to Service:
Best: Speed Queen
Worst: Whirlpool Combo

Best Overall Washer:
#1 Early GE AW6 Washer
#2 1958 Frigidaire Unimatic

Worst Overall Washer:
Early Bendix Front Load


Post# 151093 , Reply# 11   8/28/2006 at 10:24 (6,422 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
After thinking about it for another moment I want to make one change, that is:

Best Pet Hair Removal:
Best: Tie: GE Filter-Flo Washer & Whirlpool Combo
Worse: Tie: Maytag AMP/Bendix Power Surge



Post# 151106 , Reply# 12   8/28/2006 at 10:44 (6,422 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
I'm going to enjoy this Thread for a long time...

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Gee, Robert, I would have thought you would have picked a Borg/Warner-era Norge for Best Washing Ability over a Whirlpool. Those things were brutes.

Post# 151114 , Reply# 13   8/28/2006 at 11:15 (6,422 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Borg/Warner-era Norge for Best Washing Ability over a Whirlpool

I'm refrerring only to the 8lb and 10lb Norge solid-tub Norge washers. I do have that 20lb Wards in the basement at the moment, but I haven't done enough wash in it to form any sort of opinion. The 8lb and 10lb Norge machines are not as rough with the clothes as the Whirlpool. I think the Lady Kenmore with the pregant roto-swirl is a bit gentler with the clothes, but still slightly above in cleaning ability than the Norge. The Norge rinses much better than the WP/KN machines which as I said can cancel out the washing ability at times, depending on the type of load, so the final results will vary.


Post# 151115 , Reply# 14   8/28/2006 at 11:32 (6,422 days old) by manoravenue ()        
Best / Worst

My votes are:

Best: Westinghouse Laundromats, of the slanted-front variety. We had probably about the 1953 model when I was a kid, and then I think the 1964 model.

Worst: White-Westinghouse tumble action machines. The last one my late mother had was the biggest piece of junk, and we'd go through periods of waiting up to two months for parts and for someone who know what he was doing from the service establishment to work on it. My trusty 1957 Lady Kenmore kept us from having to use the coin laundries during those periods.

Best now: Mom "threw in the towel" on White-Westinghouse and went to a Sears Kenmore front-loader, and for the rest of the time we had it (until she passed away about three years after purchase), it did a great job, was trouble-free and seemed to me to use less water than the older front-loaders... not that water costs us anything extra here as the only thing this town has going for it is the fact there have never been any water meters; people just pay a flat rate.


Post# 151125 , Reply# 15   8/28/2006 at 13:25 (6,422 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
First Draft of Picks:

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My Vintage Bests:

GE WA-950W(1962); Maytag A806(1968); Miele W 423; GM Frigidaire Custom Imperial (1964); The 1964 Philco Top Loader that looks like a jukebox; Norge "Dispensomat"; Hotpoint "Duo-Load" (1969);The early Whirlpool Direct Drive Super Capacity with the ratcheting agitator

My Vintage Worsts: Any WCI Top Loading product: Any TL Westinghouse from 1972-WCI; any GE Post-Filter-Flo conventional TL.

My Current Best: LG WM2432H


Post# 151185 , Reply# 16   8/28/2006 at 18:09 (6,421 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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My all-time worst vintage machine at washing, rinsing and extraction - Westinghouse Wasy & Dry combo. Hands down. (actually, the washing is OK because of the big, ribbed drum, but spinning and rinsing are so bad - you would never know how clean things are.) It sucks as a dryer too...

Best vintage washer: Frigidaire 1958 Custom Imperial - one of the most flexible machines. I'll also cast a vote for any of the standard capacity Maytag helical-drive washers, when loaded properly they always give good results.


Post# 151192 , Reply# 17   8/28/2006 at 19:51 (6,421 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Best Machines
Frigidaire WCI58
Maytag 806
Frigidaire WCI65
Any Norge Borg-Warner 20 lb. with burpulator filtering
1956-19858 Bendix Duomatic
Kenmore He4T
Filter-Flos with ramp activators
Frigidaire 1-18s
Kelvinators with concentric washing
F&P IWL12, IWL15, & IWL16

Worst
Direct Drive Kenmores & whirlpools
Any GE Filter-Flo with str8-vane activator (ramp activvator is much better)
Any WCI top oader
1994 Maytag Dependable Cares with the Power-Fin 12 agitators.
Plastic GEs

I guess that will do




Post# 151200 , Reply# 18   8/28/2006 at 20:42 (6,421 days old) by spiralactivator ()        
In my personal experience...

Best:
BD Whirlpool with Surgilator (for stain removal)
GE FilterFlo (best lint removal)
GENUINE Maytag (can't argue with dependability)

Worst:
Plastic GE
Maytag Neptune

Best--Current:
Whirlpool/Kenmore (action's a little rough, but effective)
Speed Queen ("...makes washday a holiday")


Post# 151203 , Reply# 19   8/28/2006 at 20:48 (6,421 days old) by historyman (Pittsburgh, PA/Aiken, SC)        
Curious...

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Where would/does Amana fit into this hierarchy in everyone's opinion? My parents have had nothing but good service out of their current stainless steel wash basket Amana circa mid-90s. Just curious.

Post# 151211 , Reply# 20   8/28/2006 at 21:07 (6,421 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        
curious historyman..

the mid 90's amana's, i have learned here have a serious problem with their center tub seal under the agitator, be it hit or miss. If it fails its a labor intensive and expensive repair. ours failed after 7 years of use. For a toploader that was almost $600.00 in the mid nineties, sure makes one bitter. Im still p/o'd over this. I will buy frigidarie electrolux, at $280 a pop and pitch em when they break. Amana will never get $1.00 from me EVER again.

Post# 151244 , Reply# 21   8/28/2006 at 22:05 (6,421 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

Just my experiences and opinions, yours may differ or vary:

Best all-around TL washer: Frigidaire Unimatics
1st Runner-Up: Helical Drive Maytags
2nd Runner-Up: WP/KM Belt Drive

Worst ever washer: WCI anything
1st Runner-Up: Bendix TL rubber tub

Best dryer: Frigidaire Wide Mouth
1st Runners-Up: WP/KM Early 1980's to present large capacity

Worst ever dryer: Any Norge/Wards "Lint-O-Matic" hot air blowing dryer.
1st Runner-Up: Maytag Teeny drum, halo-of-barely warm heat electronic dryers.

Ms Congeneality washer: The ultra fun Phico Automagic

Honorable Mention: The now-extinct Frigidaire reversing tumble dryer. (It really did unravel large comforters and other bulky items.)

Most over-rated feature: Electronic drying sensors (rather than thermostatic time/temperature sensors)

Most over-rated vintage washer: Maytag AMP

Rube Goldberg mechanism award: WP/KM Wig-Wag belt drives

Best current laundry pair: KM/WP Hetties and Duets. On a steek! Uh, I mean pedestal.


Post# 151247 , Reply# 22   8/28/2006 at 22:09 (6,421 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
The earlier machines in the mid-80's were pretty reliable. I always liked the design of the flat control panel ala Kenmores of the early 70's with the sliding cover. Noisy, but a plus for people who like to hear their appliances running. Amana is now owned by Whirlpool and the Amana-Norge-Tag washer line is completely gone. Soon, the Amana name will likely be found on Whirlpool products.

Post# 151252 , Reply# 23   8/28/2006 at 22:29 (6,421 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        
Gansky1

somehow it did not occur to me, although i knew maytag owned amana, that we could see the amana name on WP products. hmmm when sears used to talk about brand central.little did we know they all would come in the same truck from the same factory. It's a brand new day, is it not? arthur.

Post# 151254 , Reply# 24   8/28/2006 at 22:39 (6,421 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Ha! Good point about "Brand Central", Arthur!

Post# 151261 , Reply# 25   8/28/2006 at 23:24 (6,421 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Amana Pepperidge

bajaespuma's profile picture
Weren't Amanas rebadged Speed Queens for a while. The agitators looked the same and I think I saw some with SS tubs.

Post# 151276 , Reply# 26   8/29/2006 at 01:44 (6,421 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

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Best got to be Hotpoint automatic made late 70s to mid 90s. They were all generally the same inside and although some went wrong parts were cheap and plentiful. They washed well although not too hot in the rinse but not as bad as modern machines. However best modern day machine im with most of the uk guys with MIELE! Worst modern day candy/hoover from a very personal point of view followed closely by modern indesits.

Post# 151290 , Reply# 27   8/29/2006 at 05:01 (6,421 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
from my brit point of view.

Best vintage:i couldnt choose one. Hoover Logic 1300. Servis Quartz 6030. Newwave 1300 washerdryer A8130

best modern: has to be miele. Aeg have slipped but i love the machine.

Worst:Merloni servis. i god damn hated the one i had. bosches on rinse cycles....helloooooooo i need water!!!


Post# 151304 , Reply# 28   8/29/2006 at 07:32 (6,421 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Stats!!

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BEST VINTAGE: Servis 600 Quartz Front Loader A-washer

Worst Vintage: Indesit from 70`s L5 onwards

BEST MODERN: Maytag Adamas (Asko Badged Euroline Front Loader)

Worst Modern: Hotpoint WM series front loaders


Post# 151377 , Reply# 29   8/29/2006 at 16:35 (6,420 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
From an Aussie perspective

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Well...from an Aussie perspective, this is what i think:

Best vintage machines:

I would say the following:

1) Simpson Fluid Drive
2) Whirlpool belt drive
3) Wilkins Servis International Series (with Maytag mechanicals)
4) Hoover 700 and 800 series.

Worst:

Sorry Chestermike, but after chatting to some repairman of that era:

60's Wilkins Servis Mark 22 (they were not very reliable)

MODERN:

Best: I would have to say Miele
Worst: I think the late 90's Simpson's

Leon


Post# 151378 , Reply# 30   8/29/2006 at 17:05 (6,420 days old) by westytoploader ()        
Based on recent experience

Best performing automatic washer EVER, for both washing and rinsing: Frigidaire Unimatic
Worst automatic made, performance-wise: Bendix bolt-down

Best capacity: Frigidaire 1-18 (GE & Westinghouse w/ramp agitators come close)
Worst capacity: 18 lb. Kenmores with the Penta-Vane

Best water extraction in a TL: Frigidaire Unimatic
Worst water extraction in a TL: BD Whirlpool/Kenmore

Best reliability: Perforated-tub GE and BD Whirlpool/Kenmore when running properly (note that I don't have any helical-drive Maytags yet)
Worst reliability: Not sure as I haven't had any "repeat offenders" for breakdowns yet (not even the '55 'Tag), but I've heard Frigidaire Multimatic.

Best water efficiency in a TL: Frigidaire Unimatic
Worst water efficiency in a TL: 18 lb. GE

Easiest for service that involves a major teardown: Perforated-tub GE
Most difficult: BD Whirlpool/Kenmore

Most fun to have:
1. Frigidaire Unimatic
2. 24" BD Kenmore
3. Maytag AMP


Post# 151397 , Reply# 31   8/29/2006 at 18:55 (6,420 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Can someone tell me which Frigidaires are Multimatic and which are Rollermatic? Is one of them the type of machines with the space capsule agitator (the mid-to-late 60's, I believe) and one of them the 1-18's?

Post# 151403 , Reply# 32   8/29/2006 at 19:38 (6,420 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Multimatics were marketed from the 1959 model year until part way or all of the 1964 model year. Rollermatics were definitely selling starting the 1965 model year and those were the first machines with the jet action, jet cone type of pulsator. The 1/18s were modified rollermatics that included a belt. Kinda simple but pretty accurate.

Post# 151405 , Reply# 33   8/29/2006 at 19:46 (6,420 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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From what I have gathered, MultiMatics had some of the worst reliability issues when they were introduced for the 1959 model year. I have surmised that as the subsequent years ensued, the quality improved, but I don't think stellar. The Rollermatics had their own issues, but I"m not sure exactly. I do know if the rollers got oil/grease on them, they stopped working properly. And the 1965 & I believe the 1966 mdel Imperials and Custom Imperials, their control panel buttons had a high failure rate because the "back" wasn't strong enough and the buttons would kinda push right on through.

Post# 151408 , Reply# 34   8/29/2006 at 20:08 (6,420 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Thanks for the info, Bob!

Post# 151523 , Reply# 35   8/30/2006 at 08:59 (6,420 days old) by spiralactivator ()        
Amana-SQ

I think the connection is this (correct me if I'm wrong):

In the '70s, McGraw Edison Corp. sold their Speed Queen laundry line to Raytheon, owners of Amana refrigeration. Throughout the '80s, Raytheon produced washers with both the Speed Queen and Amana labels. In the '90s, Raytheon divested their home appliance lines; SQ was sold to Alliance Laundry Systems, Amana to Goodman Industries.

Alliance had a contract with Goodman to keep SQ out of the home market, so as not to compete with Amana. Under Goodman, Amana's quality took a nosedive, and eventually it was sold to Maytag--where it deteriorated further. This sale dissolved the Goodman-Alliance contract, so SQs are back in the appliance showrooms. While Amana...ugh.


Post# 151704 , Reply# 36   8/31/2006 at 09:26 (6,419 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)        
Question

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Ok I like this thread but I'm worried now. I have a 1966 Rolermatic that I"m planning to use as my everyday machine. I probably do about 3 loads a week. Is this machine going to be ok for me to use? I really want to be sure and if not I know someome with a coppertone kenmore that I might need to restore instead.

Joe
jamman_98


Post# 151707 , Reply# 37   8/31/2006 at 10:00 (6,419 days old) by rickr (.)        

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I would restore the Kenmore for the "everyday driver" and keep the Rollermatic for the more fun type of washing.

Post# 151709 , Reply# 38   8/31/2006 at 10:27 (6,419 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Joe, restore the Rollermatic. While Rollermatics are not as reliable as Unimatics if the machine is working fine just use it and enjoy it. Three loads a week certainly isn't heavy usage anyway. What good is it to have a washer if you can't use it?

With all of my Unimatics I've only had one repair after restoration, but it was my own fault. I had overtightened the screws on the oil pump cap and after four years of weekly use, I developed an oil leak in my '58 Unimatic. After opening up the transmission I saw that the cork seal had push out from under the cap. I replaced the cork seal and didn't tighten the screws quite so tight, its its been just fine ever since. I use my 1958 Unimatic more than any other machine in my collection.


Post# 151756 , Reply# 39   8/31/2006 at 18:34 (6,418 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)        
Thanks Robert!

jamman_98's profile picture
When I finally get moved into my new place, I'll need some further advice on the Rollermatic too. I can't wait till i can use it.

joe
jamman_98


Post# 151783 , Reply# 40   8/31/2006 at 22:05 (6,418 days old) by rickr (.)        

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Did not mean to insinuate that a Rollermatic was an unreliable machine, or that it should not be used at all. Only suggested that the rare machine could be better preserved by having a less rare machine share the 156 loads of wash per year.

Post# 151795 , Reply# 41   8/31/2006 at 23:11 (6,418 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Alliance Laundry Systems was prevented by contractual agreement not to compete in the domestic laundry market for only a certian period of time. Once that period expired, Alliance was free to compete and launched the "Homestyle" SQ product line-up.

IIRC, the time period was part of the original sale which broke up SQ into domestic and commercial markets, with Goodman receiving domestic, and Alliance the commercial.

L.


Post# 151962 , Reply# 42   9/1/2006 at 21:21 (6,417 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
BTW, I finally got up-close-and-personal with a Speed Queen frontloader, today. It really is built like a tank. Now if they'd just configure a cycle with a long (18-25 minute) wash time, I'd definitely put it on my list.

A 9-minute wash is fine for many loads----heck, I use my 6-minute Quick Wash cycle frequently---but not having the option for a long wash is silly.


Post# 151968 , Reply# 43   9/1/2006 at 22:29 (6,417 days old) by spinout (Phoenix)        

"...I would restore the Kenmore for the "everyday driver" and keep the Rollermatic for the more fun type of washing. "

I concur.

Rollermatics are historically unreliable. I personally wouldn't have one; there are better choices. The earlier machines (Unimatic, Pulsamatic, Multimatic) are much better. Unfortunately, the transmissions were likely much more expensive to manufacture.


Post# 151969 , Reply# 44   9/1/2006 at 22:31 (6,417 days old) by westytoploader ()        

OH LAWD! Multimatic better than Rollermatic? Greg, you can take over from here ;-)

LOL


Post# 152616 , Reply# 45   9/5/2006 at 18:21 (6,413 days old) by tumbler ()        
best & worst

I have limited experience with the vintage machines, but I'd say that the best I've used were the early '60's Frigidaire. The worst-and I love front-loaders, by the way-would be the Bendix for its lethargic spin, followed by the late '60's Westinghouse Laundromat for its extremely noisy belt-shifting solenoids and tangling of clothes, and anything by WCI, including their version of the Laundromat (I had two tubs rust out!). By far the best current machines: The Whirlpool Duet HT washer, and its matching Duet dryer.

Post# 152790 , Reply# 46   9/6/2006 at 12:10 (6,413 days old) by spinout (Phoenix)        
OH LAWD! Multimatic better than Rollermatic?

Austin, surely you jest!

Before I embarked on my career as a professional engineer, I serviced appliances and TV's. That was in the 1970's, so it is possible that I know a thing or two about washers...

Sorry, but the rollermatics were broke all the time. By contrast, the real workhorses were the WP/KM (belt drive) units, which seemed to take the most overload and abuse and keep running. Most of the other brands worked OK as long as they weren't overloaded. Some, however, were better washers than others.

When I came across this forum, I was surprised to see the emphasis on Frigidaire. While I think these are interesting and unique machines, the fascination with them here--after the fact--is not representative of the market (or market share) at the point in time when these machines were new.

In fact, most customers were ambivalent towards Frigidaire machines and many did not like them at all. I think this is one possible reason that so many have survived for your collections. Customers' would get frustrated repairing them or with their idiosyncrasies and they would just get another washer; sticking the "perfectly good" Frigidare in a corner somewhere.

Finally, I think that the more reliable "work horse" machines just got used up and were retired to washer heaven. The exception to this may be Maytag: the 'tags seemed to have an easier life than most other washers and weren't often abused; as if their owners' were more conscious of their habits and took more pride in owning their appliance. Strange.


Post# 152802 , Reply# 47   9/6/2006 at 13:06 (6,413 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Well I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on some points Joseph and here are my reasons why. I have spoke to many old time authorized Frigidaire service people in my day, and 90% of them all have the same story. They told me that the Unimatic was so rugged you could shoot a bullet through it and it would keep running. They said the Multimatic and Pulsamatic weren’t quite as good, but it was more reliable than the Rollermatic machines. With each redesign the mechanisms were produced with slightly cheaper parts which lead to more reliability issues. Now with so many completely different designs, service personnel had to be properly trained otherwise the machines were not properly maintained and that only made matters worse. Most service people were not interested in keeping up with new designs and like to work only on machines they were very familiar with, such as Whirlpool or Maytag which had not change their basic design in decades. I've worked on all these machines within the past 10 years and not one of them really is any easier to work on than another if you know the machine inside and out. All of them have made me say some naughty words at times. Personally if I had to pick a washer to work on it would be a Unimatic, that is because I know it so well I could do it in my sleep.

As for market share, in the 1970's the Whirlpool design was first, Maytag second, General Electric third and Frigidaire was fourth. With a market share of 4th that leaves us with a lot of washers out there to find. I'm not sure what the market share in the early or mid 1950's was, but I suspect Frigidaire was second, maybe even first at times.

Personally I have found at many estate sales, 1-18 Frigidaire that were hooked up and still being used to that day. I found quite a few solid tub Rollermatic that were still being used, two Multimatics and even a 1949 Unimatic, when I found it in 1998 the little old lady was still using it, she said it had not needed a repair since the 1970s. The only reason it was time for a new washer for her was the timer motor had finally given out and she tried to get it repaired unsuccessfully.

I do not think that the general population treated their washer differently by brand. I do agree however that for reliability, the Whirlpool and Maytag design would win over a Rollermatic, as for a Unimatic or Multimatic, I suspect they could hold their own.


Post# 152846 , Reply# 48   9/6/2006 at 17:39 (6,412 days old) by gmmcnair (Portland, OR)        
That I Have Used and Owned Over the Years

gmmcnair's profile picture

Best Washing Ability: Wards/Norge, Frigidaire Rollermatic

Worst Washing Ability: Philco Bendix Front Loader, Belt Drive Kenmore with Super Roto Swirl

Best Water Extraction: Frigidaire Rollermatic, Wards/Norge

Worst Water Extraction: Philco Bendix Front Loader, WCI Frigidaire with porcelain tub.

Best Lint Removal: GE Filter Flo, Kenmore with self-cleaning filter.

Worst Lint Removal: Wards/Norge (storm of lint)

Quietest Machine: Maytag Helical, Kenmore belt drive

Noisiest Machines: Frigidaire Rollermatic, Wards/Norge, GE/Hotpoint (clank at end of spin)

Best at Unbalanced Loads: WCI Frigidaire, Frigidaire Rollermatic

Worst at Unbalanced Loads: Wards/Norge (came walking my direction when I was a kid).

Most Reliable Machines: GE Filter Flo, Maytag Helical

Least Reliable Machines: WCI Frigidaire, Frigidaire Rollermatic



Post# 152857 , Reply# 49   9/6/2006 at 18:54 (6,412 days old) by sudsman ()        
Cant Say for the best but can for the worst

Any thing made by Alliance I have a number of the machines and they all su** , I have not seen The new Speed Queens and cannot speak for them but will find out more... Also stay away from Anything W C I everything they did was do do ...What Speed Queen Model did you see? I would like to look at it. Alliance also makes Uniwash , Unimac . Huebuch, And bought out Ajax and has now killed it, I think they are W C I in hiding.

Post# 155411 , Reply# 50   9/18/2006 at 19:36 (6,400 days old) by chaskelljr2 (Washington, D. C.)        
My Take?!?!?!?!?!????

"Histroyman"

As for what I think the best/worst automatic washers EVER made, here is my take:

Best Vintage Washer:

BEST EVER: Maytag (never owned one, but I have been reading Consumer Reports from the 1960's thru the 1970's, and Maytags have always topped the ratings each and every time).

1ST RUNNER UP: Belt-Drive Kenmore/Whirlpool (I grew up with two of them..... one of them lasted 11 years (the first nine without a service call), and the second one was still running LONG after I have left home (in 1987...... a decade after my late mother purchased it back in August 1978)....... And a third one (a 67' Kenmore with 2 Speeds and 3 Cycles with Dispensers and OBB) lasted for almost 25 years before it had finally bit the dust more than 16 years ago........ These are really Whirlpools with Sears' Kenmore name badge on them with their lids positioned side ways instead of toward the back like the Whirlpools themselves...... But I rank the Kenmores slightly ahead of Whirlpools because Sears seems to have more stylish and more fully featured machines for the money....... Note the Lady Kenmores that I have checked out all during the years).

2ND RUNNER UP: Frigidaire (From the Unimatics of the 1950's thru My Late Uncle's Mid/Late 1960's Rapidry Rollermatic all the way thru the 1-18's of the 1970's, You cannot knock a Frigidaire for cleaning power, rinsebility and water extraction..... I also was taken aback by the way a vintage Frigidaire would agitate its washload (up and down instead of back and forth like our Kenmores tend to do).

Worst Vintage Washer:

THOUGH NOT THE WORSE EVER: Westinghouse T/L (again, never owned one....... but Consumer Reports always had it in for them every year during the 1960's).

Best Foreign Washer:

BOTH VINTAGE AND MODERN: Miele F/L (Hands Down...... But they're expensive as shit).

Best Modern Washer:

BEST CURRENT WASHER: Kenmore Elite HEt3/HEt4 - Whirlpool Duet (2001-Present).

1ST RUNNER UP: Kenmore Elite Oasis - Whirlpool Cabrio.

Worst Modern Washer:

THAT'S EASY (!!!!): GE T/L (the ones that were manufactured from 1995 to the present..... Plain and simple, they're nothing but plastic junk. If I have to have a GE Washer today, I would seek out an older "Filter-Flo" before I settle for a modern day GE..... If you want proof...... there is one sitting on the curbside in my neighborhood right now..... the cabinet is still brightly white and new looking........ proof's in the pudding..... need I say more????).

Best Dryer: To me, none really stood out or stand out today, so then, features, performance and reliability will have sway my decision if I was in the market for a dryer today. And for me, that would probably be a Lady Kenmore or a deluxe Kenmore/Whirlpool dryer dating from the 1960's to one of the Kenmore Elites of today (Solid-State Moisture Sensor, Wrinkle-Guard, Lighted Consoles and Drums, Full-Width Doors and Quiet Operation....... Need I say more????).

--Charles--


Post# 156292 , Reply# 51   9/22/2006 at 09:24 (6,397 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Ken, That white on white dryer with the HOT remote heating box on top is my all time favorite dryer. I don't need to know anything about its performance, but it's such a hot dryer that I'll bet it's fast, probably one of the fastest pieces ever made. Like many dryers, it will probably slow down as it ages and lint builds up, but then everything it turns out will be wonderfully soft, fluffy and just the sort of thing you want to hug against your bare skin and bury your face in. I do not understand why some people are not turned on by appliances.

Post# 156656 , Reply# 52   9/24/2006 at 03:37 (6,395 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
issue versus problem

panthera's profile picture
Ok, this is only slightly off-topic, but when did machines start having "issues" instead of problems...
(ducks and runs)
As for the best in my US experience: Unimatic.
Second best, GE filter-flo before they got plastic-y.
Worst, modern Whirlpool. I hate them thoroughly. They have killed more good brands than everybody else together.
Worst vintage machine (based on repairs as housemaster) Rollermatic.
And yet - the worst rollermatic of my life (nasty little 1966 piece of, well - you know what) was 1000 times better than the "best" stuff built today. Sad.
An awful lot of UK stuff was good back when it was built in the Uk. Since Merloni took over, nothing new is worth the price of a repair. Or purchase.
For Germany, have to say - until Whirlpool killed them, Bauknecht was the best mixture of creativity and value.
Today, Miele wins hands down.


Post# 156660 , Reply# 53   9/24/2006 at 03:59 (6,395 days old) by agiflow ()        

Obviously Panthera you hate WP through and through, you have made it known time and time and time ad nausem..about your hatred. The sales figures and reliability of these machines over here in the GOOD OLD USA totally contradict any bullshit you have to say.

I have always had good service from this company and across the board they are the best BAR NONE!!!

That is my personal opinion and i am sorry if feelings are hurt.

You know what too f****** bad.


Post# 156661 , Reply# 54   9/24/2006 at 03:59 (6,395 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

In my experience-not CU the best I have used would have been older Norge,KN and WP-esp belt drives.I can't comment on FL's since I don't own any and haven't used any.
worst machines would be the direct drive KN-treats your clothes like a Roto Tiller-and when it spun would ance and break its outer plastic wash tub.Poor quality.thru a use with my freind and seeing it die a brutal death-the PLASTIC GE would be the worst machine I have experienced.The one my freind had spread water and plastic shrapnel all over their laundry room floor.We took it to the dump and placed it before the dump landfill compactor and waiting for the moment-the "pactor opoerator must have been on a long lunch break-we wanted to see the 'pactor roll over that horrible machine!


Post# 156692 , Reply# 55   9/24/2006 at 09:23 (6,395 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
o, my paws and whiskers

panthera's profile picture
The question was, what is the best/worst in our own opinion.
I answered it.
Why this should lead to such an outburst as agiflow's, is beyond me.
I shall withdraw from this thread, lest my comments incite more discord.



Post# 156694 , Reply# 56   9/24/2006 at 09:27 (6,395 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

Indeed. This thread is about opinions. Everyone's entitled to one. No need to get bitchy.

Ken


Post# 156696 , Reply# 57   9/24/2006 at 09:39 (6,395 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Let's not get carried away here please, these are just personal opinions as any of these machines will get the job done, generally just fine. Any one of them could serve as our only washer and we would get along perfectly, we would just adjust the way we do the wash for the machine we have.

No need to leave the thread Kevin, everyone just remember there will never be a consensus on what comprises "best" and what is "best".


Post# 156705 , Reply# 58   9/24/2006 at 10:45 (6,395 days old) by agiflow ()        

I was out of line and i am sorry.I apologize to Panthera and indeed these are just opinions. Forgive me for getting so bent out of shape...won't ever happen again.

Post# 156711 , Reply# 59   9/24/2006 at 11:38 (6,395 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Not like I feel strongly about it or...

panthera's profile picture
Agiflow, of course I accept. And I am sorry what I said upset you like that.
How about we add a further question: Which washer should be reborn?
I vote for Unimatic. (no, Robert, not you - being *decorative* is only one aspect of a well put together product.)
(Just realised "reborn" has a different meaning in the US than here...I mean, "returned to production".)


Post# 156716 , Reply# 60   9/24/2006 at 12:02 (6,395 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Thank you, Panthera,

bajaespuma's profile picture
for expressing an opinion that I didn't have the guts to. While I really appreciate some of the designs and features of the belt- and direct- driven WP/KM family of washers and dryers, I've always had problems with them(and even though I know it's not necessary to ask, I invite any and all to respond,out of curiosity more than anything):

1. Why did the BD WP/KM machines have to be so damn big and clunky? 29" wide when they proved over and over again that they could fit all of the mechanics into a 24" wide cabinet?

2. That stupid "D" shaped tub opening; not the worst thing in the world but, why?

3. On the KM: If you're going to have a lid open to the side of the unit, LET IT GO ALL THE WAY DOWN! Otherwise, it's just in the way!

4. What's with the stupid spin cycle where you let all the dirty water drain down through the clothes you just washed instead of out through the perforations in the washbasket? DUMB!

5. And speaking of the spin cycle, why so freaking slow and ineffective?

6. One of the only machines that don't prevent you from advancing the cycle dials while the unit is on (can damage machine).

7. Dials, dials, dials! Don't give me dials, man! We want buttons!!!! ( although the TOL's usually had some).

8. And don't even get me started on the dryers! (now, Ducks and Runs).


Post# 156819 , Reply# 61   9/24/2006 at 20:00 (6,394 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

Ken, I cracked up at your post. I have often wondered many of the same things, even though the belt-drive WP/KM were actually pretty good machines overall, but I'll add to your oberservations.

1. Why the he** did the BD WP/KM waste so much vertical space at the tops of their tubs. The top of the usable tub is way down from the opening. What a waste of capacity space. Even the DD WP/KM machines commit this sin to an extent.

2. I'm guessing the neutral drain and slow spin were designed in due to the fact that the primative clutch mechanism couldn't take the stress without burning up.

3. Push to start? Pull to stop? Counterintuitive

4. No one on earth can figure out why the complex (and fun) wig-wag mechanism is as reliable as it is.

5. Difficult access to the transmission and motor, and not really very easy to work on. Just changing the drive belt can be a nightmare for the do it yourselfer.

6. TOL KM's were usually festooned with high-tech dials, push buttons and other glitzy designs, but underneath still the tired old anemic spin mechanisms.

7. Why did the KM TOL models have an extra slow speed? It's the last thing in the world any of those machines needed.

Comment about the older dryers:

8. Hamper door my a**. The older models with the hamper door and small round opening "hampered" your access to getting your clothes out.

So, there you have it. My eight oberservations, and yet these are still some of my favorite vintage machines. Go figure!!


Post# 156840 , Reply# 62   9/24/2006 at 20:29 (6,394 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
On a related subject:

bajaespuma's profile picture
My Uncle who I am very angry at right now, and my Mother(brother and sister) were the biggest jerks in my life when it came to my interest in appliances. They would both habitually ask me my opinion on appliances they were interested in buying and then ( and it always felt spiteful) just go and buy the first stupid thing to come along.

My uncle bought a beautiful and ancient house in the Hudson Valley in 1963; it came with an even then vintage Frigidaire WO-65 (going strong and paired with a pathetic Norge dryer from the late 50's; the paint was peeling off of the drum interior). I loved that Frigidaire for exactly the same reasons everyone on this site did. In the late 60's he decided to put the Frigidaire in one of his rental houses and asked me what to buy new to replace it. Of course, at that point, I told him to buy a Maytag. He did exactly what my Mother would do at that point which was to scoff at the suggestion of paying "so much money" for a Maytag ( at that point, they were about 40 dollars more than everything else, which in 1960's dollars would have been like 80 dollars more in today's white-goods economy). He also pointed out that there was a local Whirlpool dealer nearby and he thought it would be smarter to buy a less reliable machine with a repairman conveniently close. In the forty years since we began this stupid game my Uncle has owned 3 different Whirlpool pairs and will be going on his 4th soon. Had he listened back in the late sixties he would most probably still be on that first Maytag. A--hole.

Thanks for listening to my rant.


Post# 156842 , Reply# 63   9/24/2006 at 20:33 (6,394 days old) by zzzzz ()        

Also, if you looked at some BD WP/KMs the wrong way, they would suds-lock.

It seemed like the Super Roto-Swirl-equipped 1968 KM my parents had until around 1982 would suds-lock about 50% of the time. I don't recall any other make of machine being so prone to suds lock. And, yes, this was using the recommended quantity of detergent for the load.


Post# 156843 , Reply# 64   9/24/2006 at 20:35 (6,394 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Frigidaire had push-to-start knobs for some of their machines, as well as some other brands, so Kenmore wasn't the only one. However, I believe it was one of the last brands to make the transition to pull-to-start! Here's what I think of the Whirlpool/Kenmore problems...

1. The D-shaped lid opening doesn't get in the way of loading the clothes for me, but changing out AGITATORS! It was tough trying to get the winged Surgilator in and out of the Frankenmore and 24" Kenmore, but it fit both perfectly!

2. The water pump is easier to change than the belt. 'Nuff said.

3. Why can't the lid be used as a loading shelf, a la Frigidaire, Westinghouse, Norge, etc.? And over time the weight of the lid put strain on the stop, causing it to sag.

4. Slow 525 RPM spin, 505 for large capacity.

5. The outer tub is a horrible design; if the machine is not level, water WILL remain in it. Not only that, but it is absolutely poor for sediment draining, which means it's prone to buildup over time. On the old '68 Kenmore, I pulled sediment "flakes" out that were 1/8" thick!

6. Too many bearings to fail in the centerpost.

So if Whirlpool/Kenmore machines have a few inconveniences, are unnecessarily Rube Goldberg and a b*tch to work on, and aren't the best performance-wise, why is it we love them so much? I think it's not only because of their against-the-odds reliability, it's because they simply have a "following" and are what we are most familiar with seeing. For me, it's all the different types of agitators used as well as the sounds and the wash action. There's just something about them that makes them FUN TO USE AND WATCH!!!

Whirlpool's DD machines are good, reliable performers, IMHO, and their dryers are good as well!

Speaking of against-the-odds reliability, I think it was Greg that mentioned to me about how the Kenmore combos, with more parts than a Volkswagen, weren't as trouble-prone as one would think. Does anyone have any more information on this?

--Austin


Post# 156878 , Reply# 65   9/24/2006 at 22:21 (6,394 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
I will wholeheartedly agree with most of the sentiments of WP/KM belt-drive washers but remember making a bit of a fuss when my mother bought a Maytag washer in 1981 instead of a black-panel Kenmore. For the same money as the BOL Maytag, we could have had large capacity, two speeds, etc. Whirlpool/Kenmore was always a machine I wanted because almost everyone we knew had Maytag. We had a GE that I look back fondly on now but was bored with at the time it was replaced in '81.

Kenmore machines were feature-laden, popularly priced and easily serviced by a nationwide network. The availability of credit to almost anyone that could "make his mark" accounts for a huge percentage of Sear's good fortune and Kenmore's otherwise unlikely popularity. Were it not for Sears pumping out trainloads of appliances on credit every month for 50 years, I often wonder if Whirlpool would have survived the downsizing of the industry through the years.


Post# 156900 , Reply# 66   9/25/2006 at 00:39 (6,394 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Kenmore Combos

panthera's profile picture
Maybe because fewer were built, so to keep the profit margin up they had to put better trained workers on them.
Or the general use of heavy-duty components for smaller than average loads.
I'd love to know, tho'.
I looked hard at one of the smallest Sears combos just before I left the 'States this month. Wonder if the 240V connection meant that it just plain had more "juice" available to it than the poor babies struggling on a branch circuit with the refrigerator and half the kitchen or only the gods know what else? 240V lines are always run separately and would offer the highest nominal power.
Just a thought, but all the old manuals mention capacitors for difficult power situations in "rural" areas.
(Ken, it caused enough grief, I wish I'd kept my trap shut. Austin, that is - in a nutshell - exactly 99.99% of the reason US politicians can get away with cheating the US population out of solutions to so many pressing problems: As a large, (generally) well-run and isolated country (Canada is not registered, Mexico...well I ain't gonna go there) folks in the US, unless they invest the time and money, have no idea that in other parts of the world there often are more modern conveniences and serious solutions to some of today's problems.)


Post# 156934 , Reply# 67   9/25/2006 at 09:32 (6,394 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Ken, Gene, Keven & Austin, I am another heretic here who did not care for old style bd KM/WP washers & the dryers with the perforated drum back. Under all the glam and glitter, it was the same washing machine year after year with added bells and whistles, but the same neutral drain and slow spin. They were just so white bread. Most people had them. The only WP and KM laundry appliances I liked were the combos. I knew what disasters the big huge ones were, because I had one that I took apart and reassembled. The redesigned 29" machine worked better and I used one for several years mostly with separate washer and dryer backup, in my townhouse. WP was the only manufacturer that did a radical redesign of their combination washer-dryer. It was possible because Sears sold so many machines that WP had the money to invest in the researach and development to bring out a new model that was a great improvement over the first one. They kept refining the new model also, from 1961 until the end of production in the early 70s.

I like my KA washer and dryers. I like the way I can make it go into spin/drain. I like the round tub opening, effective agitation, faster spin and better rinsing with a 4 minute agitation period. Mine is old enough to have spray rinses after the wash and rinse. While older GE & Frigidaire dryers will always have a place in my heart, for modern, efficient drying, I think that the "U-shaped" airflow in the 29" WP built dryers makes them the most efficient of all that I have used. The GE BIG TUB dryer dries fast and is nice for large loads and the regular GE dryer is a beauty and dries fast also. This fall I hope to start using the 60s Norge electric inside as well. It is currently in restoration. It could not have been used much or else it was very well maintained because there was hardly any lint buildup in the machine.


Post# 156936 , Reply# 68   9/25/2006 at 09:44 (6,394 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        

Worst machine- 1963 Coronado
Best machine- Maytag from the 60's until the model change over in the early 80's.


Post# 157145 , Reply# 69   9/26/2006 at 03:50 (6,393 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
My 2 cents

irishwashguy's profile picture
I would say the best were Vintage----Maytags with the H-drive Tran-my mother had two of them----Speed Queen---Fridgidaire Rollermatic, etc, and Last but not least Belt Driven Kenmore/Whirlpool, you can't kill those things.
Best Modern---Miele hands down, DD Whirlpool Kenmore, Speed Queen
Worst Vintage-------I can't say, except my Aunt had a reall bad I-18 disaster.It was terrible and was serviced contantly, she washed closed at our house when it was broken,
Worst Modern-----Maytag Neptune!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TL GE----sooooooo bad----Norge Maytag Hibrid, bad!!!Magic Chef--bad---Asko, US market Creda( more like Crappa)----!!So bad that they do not sell them in the US anymore. Equator.OMG So bad!!!



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