Thread Number: 78171
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Miele W1926 stuck in service mode?
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|Post# 1022008   1/22/2019 at 06:30 by codybear (USA)  || |
I had/have a problem with the cold water input valve, so in order to better diagnose the problem, I tried to put it into service mode as per the W1900 technical manual. Tried a dozen times, but could never get the acknowledgement indicator (successful access into the Service Mode is indicated by a flashing “Pre-Wash” LED).
Anyway, it appears that I must have done something successful because it is now stuck in a mode that is not matching the service mode description. These are the symptoms:
1. Electric door will not activate.
2. On/off button will not flash the delay start led.
3. While on button locked down, the pre-wash button will cause the drum to rotate (slow rpm).
4. Moving the selector from start to any selection, nothing will happen. But return to start and then a four blink countdown starts proceeding to each entry of the program sequence starting with main wash then downward.
5. Moving the selector to a wash cycle while the four blink countdown is occurring will cause the blinking cycle to start.
6. The time display is always off.
7. Turning on/off will not reset the mode.
8. Unplugging for 4 days will not reset the mode.
I'm able to do a full wash by using the manual door release and selecting a wash cycle within the four blinks of the main wash led, but obviously this is not a convenient solution.
Any suggestions? Was able to temporarily solve my water inlet problem by swapping the rubber diaphragm between the main and pre-wash solenoids. Discovered a broken shock during all of this and hopefully, this should resolve a mysterious clunking noise; and finally fixed a deformed selector knob that has been annoying me for years. She's all ready to rock and roll if I can just resolve this goofy mode I'm stuck in.
|Post# 1022050 , Reply# 1   1/22/2019 at 13:34 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
You are not in a service mode if the machine performs a normal cycle in any way shape or form.
Instead sounds a lot like you messed up the machine specific setup programming of the PCB.
From that point on without the Miele service software, you are probably screwed.
If you did mess up the programming, you either are completly unabled to reverse that without technician help as there are certain settings that correspond to a configuration of the EU topload machines of that time which means the machine will never be in a mode where acessing the settings is possible...
...or you are close to being completly unabled to get back to the old configuration as any button and any LED is now remapped to some version of the control - and by some I mean it could be any machine that used that platform of control, no matter for which market, which model or if such a model with that specific configuration ever made it to market.
The reason I am pretty certain you managed that is that that countdown running you are describing sounds a lot like the skip-procedure animation they used (for example jumping from wash to rinse manually).
The display not working points towards a config of the lower end machines without them, and the countdown running points skipping one LED points towards lower end as well.
The door not working points to something not giving the door-release permission and that is most likely the configuration item that will make getting into any service menu impossible.
Best way to start is with door closed, machine off, selector at top most position.
Then turn on, note which LEDs light up, then turn to one cycle, note what lights now.
Let the machine sit there for a couple of minutes and see if you get any error codes.
Then turn back to 12 o clock, switch off, and retry with one option selected before turning from the 12 o clock position, check if anything changes, and repeat for each option button.
If you want to go through the hazzle of getting back to a usable state you have to map out which button does what, which LED is what and then compare that to the list of models. From there on you would have to extrapolate which machine configuration you accidently set and get into the configuration from there on.
But even from there on your chances of getting back by yourself are VERRY slim since the configuartion sheets are even harder to come by then the service manuals, neigh impossible.
And tbh nothing else comes to mind since no normal operation mode or any service test correspondes to that behaviour.
|Post# 1022093 , Reply# 2   1/22/2019 at 19:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
Admit what you've done, and see if they can (or will) assist via telephone. Failing that option only thing left for it would be the dreaded call out service call which will cost.
Condition may not be terminal, but requires expertise and knowledge beyond what is written in your copy of manual. Something Miele USA may or may not wish to provide to a customer either on telephone or otherwise for DIY.
You aren't the first (nor likely last) customer who has gotten themselves into it by messing with service programming. Miele USA has "been there and done that", so while you may get a bit of a tongue lashing and or high handed tone, being taken to the woodshed is the price you'll have to pay for restoring the machine.
IIRC most later models of Miele washers and other appliances have removed access to service mode by those who aren't supposed to be there.
Miele USA (and one assumes corporate) is fully aware copies of service manuals are floating about on internet/elsewhere and likely got fed up with dealing with undoing what customers did to their appliances messing about where they shouldn't. Worse many customers would simply outright lie and deny any such behavior when tech clearly can tell (by various means) someone had been in the service mode and mucked things up.
|Post# 1022136 , Reply# 3   1/23/2019 at 05:57 by codybear (USA)  || |
Launderess: I told CS I tried to get it into service mode to diagnose the water led warning, so there was no "lying" to Miele. The CS rep lacked the documentation, expertise or the plain fact a field technician will need to resolve the problem. It is as simple as that. His final solution was to leave it unplugged for an extended time to drain the CPU capacitors. He clearly understood the problem and the lack of resolution wasn't because I failed to "admit." I'll try again with CS and see if I have better luck. I'm not the kind of guy that has a "guy" do everything for him. I'll give it my best shot first.
henene4: I don't believe I reconfigured it to another model. I believe I'm in some sort of service mode, but not the one documented. When I first turn it on with the selector at 12 o'clock, only the On light turns on (solid). It will do nothing no matter which selection option I next choose. No warnings, no other indicators. It is when I go back to 12 o'clock, that is when I get countdown of the cycles. I will have about 4 seconds on Main Wash blinking to turn the selector to a selected wash; otherwise, it has dropped to Rinse 1-2. I do get the correct selected wash, so that is why I don't think I reconfigured it. The only thing wrong is that I may not be getting Water Plus.
It doesn't appear to be in demonstration mode, because the On light will not go on if the door is open. I'm still hoping that maybe someone will recognize the 4 blink per cycle countdown mode and have a suggestion. At some point, I'll try unplugging for 7 or more days and if that doesn't resolve it, a field technician will be my only choice.
|Post# 1022141 , Reply# 4   1/23/2019 at 06:40 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
It could be one of two situations.
Customer service rep is totally unfamiliar with older Miele washers such as the 1900 series, and thus is going by just whatever information he/she has at fingertips.
Or, it truly will take a call out for a Miele service tech to "see" what the machine is doing and try various ways to get it back to where it should.
Have a service manual for "1900" series washers and the section for W1926 is rather skimpy. It tells how to get into service mode, but doesn't seem to mention how to get out/reset the washer afterwards. This *might* be the information needed to restore your washer to proper condition.
|Post# 1022148 , Reply# 5   1/23/2019 at 08:01 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
4 blinks per cycle is the rapid advance animation. Described in the Canadian owners manual page 11 or paragraph "To omit a programm stage".
Exiting service cylces is and has always been done by turning off, waiting 5 seconds and turning back on.
Makes sense: If somehow someone accidently got into a service mode their first reflex would be to turn the machine completly off, wait 5 seconds and to turn it back on.
No maker would design service menus to stay active after the machine has been unplugged for 4 days.
Miele always had 3 or 4 main modes for their controls:
Operation mode, settings mode (on the Novotronics like the W1966 and onwards), service mode and configuration mode.
Not more, not less.
Only one mode would be abled to execute selectable programms: Operation mode.
Why would they not list a mode in their own repair instructions? A service technician has to know every mode a machine could be in. They wouldn't keep anything from their service personal as they would have to help the customer no matter what the case were.
And if you so firmly remain that that is not the case the only other remotley plausible fault would be a fault in either the control PCB or the main PCB.
Finding out which is at fault is described in the service manual.
Parts are extremly expensive.
|Post# 1022171 , Reply# 6   1/23/2019 at 12:50 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)  || |
Henrik is right. If you are in Settings, Service or Config mode turning the power off and on will reset the machine into normal operation. It sounds like you’ve changed a config item that isn’t compatible with your machine, or you’ve reprogrammed the type of control panel that the electronic is trying to communicate with.
I’m these machines for the most part, the main controller electronic stayed the same and you configure (select a driver in pc terms) to work with the different control panels that were available. If you’ve inadvertently selected the wrong control panel, that would explain why it’s behaving like it is. If it is the case, then you need a Miele engineer with a laptop to reset those settings.
|Post# 1022255 , Reply# 7   1/24/2019 at 05:34 by codybear (USA)  || |
No joy on the 5 second turn off. Did the ohm test of the two boards last week and everything is fine. It's appears that reprogramming is becoming my only option. I'll give it one last effort leaving it unplugged for a while and then I'll set up an appointment.
|Post# 1022266 , Reply# 8   1/24/2019 at 08:08 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)  || |
|Post# 1022283 , Reply# 9   1/24/2019 at 11:15 by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)  || |
|Post# 1022323 , Reply# 10   1/24/2019 at 18:36 by codybear (USA)  || |
No need for a backup washer as I can still use the Miele to do a wash. I need to use the manual door opener and then get it into countdown wash cycle and select the temp/fabric within 4 seconds and I'm good to go. Not sure if I'm getting water plus, but I can at least get it to do the cycle I want. When I go unplugged tomorrow, we'll have everything washed that we need. I doubt a week unplugged will change anything, but it is worth a shot.
|Post# 1022331 , Reply# 11   1/24/2019 at 20:12 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)  || |
|Post# 1023182 , Reply# 12   1/31/2019 at 14:29 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
|Post# 1026220 , Reply# 13   3/4/2019 at 14:21 by codybear (USA)  || |
About a month ago, I had the pleasure of having not one, but two Miele service techs drive up in separate vans. Told them, I have it open and they just need to re-flash the program. They took one look and said that they can not re-program a machine that old (20 years). Fortunately, they contacted their supervisor and they were able to waive the $250 service fee. Said they could replace the upper board which I knew already costs about $575 for the part alone. And off they went with the machine as is and I was no worse off as I lucked out on the service charge.
Fast forward, I thought I would watch Craigslist (I wrote my own robot program) and low behold, the exact washer and dryer became available. Talked them down from $400 to $200. Upon seeing it, I should have talked them down to $100, but I was running late for evening plans and didn't have time to bargain. But here nor there, these things are worth more dissembled than whole. Moments ago, just swapped out the board and I'm back to a working machine.
Having replaced the shocks (about $60) and a new cold water solenoid ($26), it's running like a champ. Further, I'll dissemble the washer & dryer, shelf the parts that wear or may break, and I should be able to keep these things running for a while.
So all is good here now.
|Post# 1026233 , Reply# 14   3/4/2019 at 16:21 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
Glad things worked out well for you in the end. Good for you.
Yes, did warn you about Miele service and "old" appliances. You get the distinct impression they really don't want to bother and would rather you just bought new and be done with things. At least Miele waived their dear call out charges and took the "broken" washer away saving you cost/bother of disposal.
Also, "yes" you can find used Miele washers and dryers of recent or certainly older vintage going for very little money. Problem is usually the things never are in one's neck of the woods and shifting those heavy washers isn't exactly easy or cheap.
Glad you were able to get parts for your new machines. MieleUSA no longer stocks parts for many older models and isn't ordering any more from Germany either.
|Post# 1026242 , Reply# 15   3/4/2019 at 18:25 by codybear (USA)  || |
Sorry, you misunderstood my post. I kept my old machine. The short version: Miele came in, said they could do nothing and left.
That left me in the hunt of a solution without paying $575 for a new controller. The purchased "used" machines I ended up with were visually far inferior machines than mine. I just took the controller out of the "purchased" washer and stuck it into my old washer and now my old washer with my new shocks and water solenoid is running great. So the parts were for the old machine using the purchased used machine. The "new" used machines are for parts for the "old" machines.
And I lucked out. While the new used machines were on the 5th floor, there was an elevator, so no stairs at all. Wheeled it right into my trailer and wheeled it right into the house. About as easy as one could hope for and didn't need to spend a dollar for help. So for $200 and 20-25 miles round trip drive and not a single stair, I should have enough parts to keep my old Miele washer and dryer running for at least five years if not longer. Maybe some carbon brushes, but those are cheap.
I did at least learn something from the Miele techs while they were there. I mentioned I had an unusually noise while the dryer turned in one direction. I had previously replaced the carbon brushes on the drum and that helped a bit but I still had noise. They said it should be the plastic ball socket. Took that apart, which was relatively easy, saw nothing wrong, re-greased it and still had the noise. Now being determined to resolve this one year noise, hunted down the culprit which turned out to be a staple bouncing in the exhaust pipe. Without Miele's suggestion, I would have not know where I should have started. Wrong advice, but at least it was a start to the solution. Thankfully, I didn't have to pay Miele to fix something that wasn't broken.
|Post# 1026244 , Reply# 16   3/4/2019 at 18:38 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
Saw "And off they went with the machine...." and got wrong end of the stick.
Your overall solution is quite common for those with older and or even new Miele washers. In Europe we have some great members (of this forum and other appliance hobbist sites) that have done wonders.
MieleUSA of course will not install any sort of "used" parts when called out. At least they wouldn't when one made inquires several years back just being nosey.
Have seen various Miele washers being sold for parts on eBay and elsewhere. For many of the older model washers second hand parts are the only supplies left in USA once MieleUSA has ceased stocking parts.
Again glad you got yourself sorted; you should now have a washer (and dryer) good for another fifteen years or longer.