Thread Number: 78549  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Help me Make an Informed Decision re: a Washing Machine
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Post# 1025599   2/25/2019 at 10:51 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

Hello Automatic Washer folks,

After a lot of lurking, I created a profile in hopes of receiving some much-needed assistance. My husband and I are parents to two young children. We despise planned obsolescence, value longevity and quality, and I tend to research obsessively before plunking down our hard-earned money. Which is why I'm here.

Facts:
-Our first home came with a no-frills Speed Queen washer and dryer set. As 20-somethings, we didn't understand how excellent those machines were. With age brings wisdom...

-When we moved into our current home, we ended up with a now 10-year-old, four cf. capacity TL, HE-style Kenmore 800 (Model 110.29822800). I *think* this has one of the revered Whirlpool DD's, but I have never liked the machine. From the beginning, it twisted clothes like crazy, doesn't always rinse well, collects tons of linty gunk around the top, and has been prone to a variety of minor problems that my husband has fixed. But, it has surprisingly lasted 10 years and the capacity has been nice. Now the porcelain basket is rusting out and sometimes releases something like a sludge. We aren't up for repairing that on our own.

- We are on a septic system. Water level options are good.

- Our laundry room is too small for standard-size FL door clearance, so we must stick with TLs. I'd like the ability to at least wash a queen-size comforter, for those times when kids are sick, etc.

- My husband and I have office jobs, but do like to work outside, camp, and have kids that play hard - I want something that is capable of cleaning well, but won't beat the heck out of delicates.

New models/options we are considering:

- Maytag Commercial, MVWP575GW - Seems to offer a lot of what we want, except I worry about it dumping too much water into our septic system, since it lacks a load size setting.

- Speed Queen *Big Sigh* My plan for the last few years was to buy a new SQ as soon as the Kenmore died. This was supposed to be an easy decision. I've read all about the 2018 debacle, watched the videos, etc. So depressing. I wanted the SQ build quality, reliability and longevity. Now I don't know what to think. Part of me wonders if a 2018 model would still be adequate for our needs, though I don't like the idea of buying a sub-par machine. I considered an LWN model, but capacity appears even a bit smaller than the residential units, and they are water hogs unless we found someone to update the control panel.

- Maytag MVWB765F or MVWB766F - I don't think either of these has the build quality or projected longevity that we want, but in terms of features, capacity, and cleaning function, they look adequate. I dunno. Maybe we'll have to settle for something like this. A happy medium? Or possible junk?

- Last but not least, is it possible that the current Kenmore 800 I so dislike is really better than modern options out there? If so, would it be worth paying someone to refurb. it? I'm not excited about this idea, but will keep an open mind.

Thanks so much in advance!


Post# 1025603 , Reply# 1   2/25/2019 at 11:10 by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

Buy a clean refurbed super capacity Kenmore/Whirlpool direct drive washer. 2 piece dual action agitator and a speed select switch, if possible....and NO cold water washes!!

Post# 1025605 , Reply# 2   2/25/2019 at 11:55 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Your Kenmore is an "old-style" direct-drive mechanism, modified with the automatic water level sensing function ... a sort-of last-ditch effort to keep them viable toward the end of production under the more stringent energy regulation.† That's the only effective difference it has compared to other direct-drive machines.

Are you running primarily cold-water washes? That'll cause the gunk. In any machine.


Post# 1025606 , Reply# 3   2/25/2019 at 12:13 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Iíd like to recommend this model.

www.lowes.com/pd/Whirlpoo...

If you search for Loraine Furnitureís videos on YouTube, there are a few clips of this washer platform running.
Itís cheap. Fairly durable by ďtodayís standardsĒ and itís simple.
It has a classic agitator and uses more traditional amounts of water.
Itís also repairable if anything like the bearing dies, or the electronics.

Iím considering this model if my own supposedly ďcommercial technologyĒ Maytag
is condemned.


Post# 1025607 , Reply# 4   2/25/2019 at 12:16 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

DADoES, thanks for confirming it's a DD. That's means I'm supposed to hold on to it, right? I will say that it has nice capacity, fast wash times, and simplicity that we appreciate. But if you search for that model online, they appear to be problem-prone machines in other respects.

For the majority of our loads, I use the "Cool Brights" option, because when I've stuck my hand in it before, it felt warm. I sometimes use the warm and hot settings for whites. But you are right. I've been reading about the problems associated with cold-water washes, so will make it a point to use hot more often. I don't know that it's a true hot though - I think the Energy Star rating on this machine may reduce the temp.

Considering we'd need to pay someone to replace the wash basket and possibly give it a general tune up, is it worth the $? Or is there a modern model that might serve us better for the long haul?


Post# 1025609 , Reply# 5   2/25/2019 at 12:57 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

Johnb300m, thanks for the suggestion. My only reluctance with that model is the porcelain basket. We've been burned on porcelain-coated baskets with the Kenmore (which showed it's first chip shortly into our ownership, and now has rust on the interior perimeter of all the basket holes).

Post# 1025628 , Reply# 6   2/25/2019 at 18:46 by jeb (Mansfield Ohiio)        
New washer

In my opinion you are never going to get the years out of anything new that you got out of the last two machines you have had. I wouldn't count on more than 10 to 12 years before major repair or replace. A refurbished older one should last that long and be less expensive and offer the cycles, water levels and times you want, but you are buying a used machine and don't know how hard it has been used. A new one you will at least know what has been washed in it. Either way you go, I would consider any life after 12 years a bonus.

Post# 1025632 , Reply# 7   2/25/2019 at 19:30 by LukeS (Charlotte, NC)        

My vote is on a Speed Queen commercial unit (LWN). The capacity is the same as the residential units, if you look at the parts manual it uses the same tub. On the electronic units it is easy to add a water level selection if you are willing to swap out the control panel for a 2017 residential unit control panel.

The MVWB765F cleaning action is pretty awful, my brother has one and here is a video review





Post# 1025636 , Reply# 8   2/25/2019 at 20:18 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
I wanted the SQ build quality, reliability and longevity.

Keep an eye on Craigslist, used Speed Queen washers come up for sale every now and then if you're in a more populated area.


Also refurbed DD washers:

grandrapids.craigslist.org/ppd/d...


Post# 1025646 , Reply# 9   2/25/2019 at 21:44 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

How close are you to Grand Rapids

Post# 1025648 , Reply# 10   2/25/2019 at 22:01 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

Thank you all for the feedback.

LukeS - I've watched so many of the Lorain videos but apparently missed that one! Guess I'll strike that particular unit from the lineup. I've seen some of the LWNs around, and given them serious consideration. In particular, I was eyeing a '17 LWN432SP115TW01. How "easy" is swapping that control panel? Could a novice do it easily? I've read the threads on here about it, but neither husband or I are experienced with that sort of thing. I like to think we're reasonably smart and resourceful, but time can also be an issue (kids, jobs, no family nearby, etc.) And aren't the LWNs slightly smaller than even the residential models, at 3.19 vs 3.3 cf? That makes me a little nervous, since I'm already accustomed to our current 4.0 cf. (but could likely adapt to smaller).

good-shepherd - I've seen ads for the appliance refurb. store in the CL post you provided. That is about an hour from me, and really tempting to check out since they already are cleaned up and "like new." A couple of days ago, I also called on a Craig's List ad a few hours away, for a few-years-old residential SQ washer/dryer duo that looked to be in excellent, lightly used shape. They sold right away.

Does anyone have thoughts on the apparent "tweaks" to the 2019 Speed Queens? I was just watching Kirk Rivas' recent videos with interest. I know it's still not the SQ we loved, but perhaps an improvement from 2018?





Post# 1025654 , Reply# 11   2/25/2019 at 22:33 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

Lorainfurniture - G.R. is about an hour or so away. Not a difficult trip if weather cooperates. Are you familiar with the appliance refurb. store there? Btw - I was just telling a friend who lives in Cleveland, that she needs to buy appliances from your store. Keep up the good work.

Post# 1025697 , Reply# 12   2/26/2019 at 09:27 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
well really no matter what machine you have....with a septic, its usually recommended that a washer is either routed outside somewhere, or a gray tank installed...if possible....


no TL machine really does a good job with a puffy comforter bigger than a full size....quilts are usually a better choice...


Post# 1025704 , Reply# 13   2/26/2019 at 09:53 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Just a few cents of mine thrown in again.

Pertaining to the MVWB765, Eugeneís results really perplex me.
**now I donít at all want to sway your buying thoughts**
But my parents have a MVWB765, and they like it.
For over a year now itís been getting all their clothes and bedding clean.
I donít at all discount Eugeneís results. He uses real good testing methods.
My parents have had to tweak their thoughts on cycles, but theyíve found s groove that works.
Theyíve never used Deep Water yet. Only the bedding cycle.
IDK if that matters....

Iím just so perplexed by the difference in results.
If it acted as badly as that test, you better believe Iíd hear about it from my mom ;)


Post# 1025709 , Reply# 14   2/26/2019 at 11:27 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

Yogitunes - Hmm. Septic systems are quite common around here. I've not heard of many washers being routed outside, with the exception of some older homes. In fact, I think there are regulations against it to prevent groundwater contamination, but that may depend on the municipality/county). Gray-water tanks might be a thing, but I'm not familiar with those. *Shrug* Our home is only 20-years old, and the washer has always drained into the septic system, which has a large drain-field and is a double-tank system. We respect it though, and pump the tanks regularly.

As for washing bedding, I realize a FL is the only style to do it well, and don't expect perfection. But if one of my kids vomits all over their bedding in the middle of the night - which does happen - I want the ability to stuff said bedding (full or queen-sized) into the washer and call it good. It doesn't happen often though. And now that I think about it, most of our bed covers are duvets, quilts, or light-weight comforters.

johnb300m - I know. So much conflicting information, which is why I'm nearly at my wits end with this search. It shouldn't be so hard to find a quality, reliable, family-sized machine with simple functions, water-level choices to avoid waste, and good wash ability. Wish we had space for a front loader. It would expand our options at least. But since most have an open-door depth of 51" or greater, that's a no-go.

I hope to visit a local appliance store soon and see if I can get a 30-day "try it out" period. It could be a long shot, but worth asking. Or, I may visit the appliance refurb. store in Grand Rapids. Until then, I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions!


Post# 1025727 , Reply# 15   2/26/2019 at 14:08 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
a washer draining into a septic is never a good idea....

that's a huge amount of water going in there per load, not to mention detergent and especially bleach, that will kill off the good bacteria to help your septic function properly...

surprised when you have it pumped out, that the guy doesn't ask questions of not putting grease down the drain, where does your washer drain, and not to toss things like cig butts down there....

when ever we had a home with septic....the washers(yes I have several), dishwasher and bath tubs all went outside....note too, the grass on that side of the house was a lot thicker and greener...

having ten kids, its sort of fun to play with grass and bleach....like for a party, a few ideas and templates, you can create a bunch of stuff/games....arrows, hopscotch, softball diamond, names, etc.....straight bleach in a sprayer will turn the grass yellow, eventually it will die off, and grow back super green and thick...

in any case.....I think you would do good with another direct drive, for under 200.00...maybe with a few more options than your used to....try to find one from a reputable used appliance store with a warranty....never hurts to ask for a trade in discount...

some only spit polish the exterior.....others will tear that machine down and scrub it from the inside out, these types have no issue with opening the cabinet to show you how clean it is...

keep us posted on how you make out....


Post# 1025734 , Reply# 16   2/26/2019 at 15:16 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
I may visit the appliance refurb.

I'd give that place a try.

Prices are a little steep but if they do a real refurb, as in replacing worn parts and not just a cleaning it could be worth it. At least you know what you're getting. But I'd ask for a 30 day exchange and try to negotiate the price down.

Also, not all DD washers are created equal, some have higher build quality (older models), larger capacity, better agitators, more features, etc.


Post# 1025735 , Reply# 17   2/26/2019 at 15:49 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Synergy appliances

Heís a great guy, and fixes his machines with the same quality and care that I do. Owners name is Micheal. Tell him you were referred by Lorain furniture

g.co/kgs/tTuJcy...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Lorainfurniture's LINK


Post# 1025739 , Reply# 18   2/26/2019 at 16:24 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

My washer(s) drains into my septic, for 14+ years.† The county requires a maintenance contract, which I have with the original installers.† They've never made any mention of it being a problem.† I don't have a garbage disposer (electrical is in place for it but the builder didn't install one), I never put grease down the drain, and there has not yet been a need to pump-out any sludge.† I use a powder dishwasher detergent with chlorine bleach, and usually use chlorine bleach on white laundry.

It's an aerobic system.† Three-section tank ... initial collection section where the particulates drop-out, aerobic treatment section with an aerator pump, and distribution/treatment section which has chlorine tablets and a discharge pump (sprays on the far-back area of the yard on a timed schedule via two standard sprinkler heads).


Post# 1025742 , Reply# 19   2/26/2019 at 16:33 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

If you're dedicated to getting a SQ that is NOT the 2018- model, I would try getting the LWN model and consider swapping the control panel for the residential one (if you need a WL control). Otherwise I would consider the Maytag Commercial washer, my aunt has one and it does a pretty good job acting like a traditional top loader including using actual warm and hot water. IMO, even if the newer SQ's work better with their supposed tweaks for 2019, I still consider them a bit overpriced for what you're getting. 

 

If neither of those options work out, I'd probably just go for one of the better reviewed front loaders out there, however you already crossed that off due to size constraints. 

 

If you wanna go used, that place Eugene recommended will definitely be worth checking out and seeing what they have. A DD KM 70, 80 or 90 series in good shape would be a solid machine to have and are easy to work on. 


Post# 1025743 , Reply# 20   2/26/2019 at 17:11 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

Good information everyone. Thanks again. At this point, I'm going to need to do some in-store visits to look at new machines, ask about exchange policies, and also hopefully take a road trip to Grand Rapids. It may take us a bit to get it all figured out, but I'll post again when we make a decision - or if I have more questions.

Eugene - I'm glad you speak highly of Synergy Appliance. That's good to know.

GusHerb - The idea of an LWN control-panel swap intrigues me, but I still question if its within our novice capabilities. Install time would be the big factor. The Maytag Commercial unit would be on my short list for sure, except for its limitation of half- or full-tub levels. Because of our septic...

Yogitunes - Like Dadoes, our septic has never given us problems, and it's a setup that is absolutely the norm around here. We keep our use of bleach minimal, don't put grease down drains, don't throw "flushable" wipes down toilets, our detergent is a gray-water/septic safe HE brand, etc. We have pump outs every few years as a matter of maintenance, and dig out the tank-to-drainfield filter once a year to spray it off (good times for my husband). The septic guys have never been concerned. But it's also a reason why we don't want a washer that is a water hog all of the time.

One more question - am I overlooking any family-sized FL's that don't have a huge door size? The depth of our laundry room wall is only about 30". In order to open a typical FL door, I'd have to be smashed up against a bank of cabinets opposite the washer.

Thanks again everyone.


Post# 1025744 , Reply# 21   2/26/2019 at 17:21 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

I think swapping the control panel should be pretty easy. I've had the control panel opened on mine and it's just two screws, then you'd just need to swap the wires/harness over to the new panel. I think that should be all there is to it. 

 

Go to reply #18 to see what the inside of the panel looks like: 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO GusHerb's LINK

Post# 1025770 , Reply# 22   2/26/2019 at 20:52 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        
GusHerb

For some reason, I didn't realize it was just a simple harness. Had thought it was more complicated, but that would be within our capabilities. Hmm. So if I found a 2017 or 2018 LWN model, I should easily be able to swap the control panel with a 2017 AWN residential control panel then, if I recall correctly?

Your SQ is 3.19 cf capacity, right? Is it noticeably smaller than the residential units at 3.3 cf?

This is definitely worth mulling over. Though part of me wonders if we'd be better off with a larger sized DD refurb. I suppose this is why I need to get out and start looking at washers in person. Thanks!


Post# 1025777 , Reply# 23   2/26/2019 at 21:46 by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio)        
If you look at refurbished machines

Consider the Maytag version, if you find one.

I have the Maytag version of your present machine.

MVWC6ESWW1 I bought this new in 2009.

I replaced the solid lid with the glass lid from the top of the line model.
It helped me get used to the auto water level much faster.

This model has a stainless steel tub. One of the issues you mentioned was
rust. Something you might look for on the used market.

I've been pretty happy with it so far, although it probably doesn't get the same usage as yours. And I have a few more machines to pick from on laundry day.

Good luck! Bill


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1025781 , Reply# 24   2/26/2019 at 22:09 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

I think the tub is the same size in the LWN as the AWNE, I think they used to round it up to 3.3 when it wasnít actually that large. Or they changed it, Iím not sure but I doubt the latter. With that said, the agitator does a really good job at turnover even when itís slightly overloaded. I can fit 9-10 full sized towels in mine, or a full size comforter, and it will still turnover at a reasonable rate.

Post# 1025782 , Reply# 25   2/26/2019 at 22:17 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

If you're considering another DD (WP, KM or whatever), you might look for a model without the auto water level function.† Those sensor switches tend to be the flaky item.† You mentioned some repairs were done on your current machine, was that switch involved in any of them?

Mid- and upper-level DDs had 4 and 5 water level choices and some are fully variable between min and max.

KitchenAid-branded DDs are notable for typically having an agitator with larger fins and running at a slower speed (3-speed models) for reduced aggressiveness/wear on the clothes.


Post# 1025793 , Reply# 26   2/27/2019 at 01:34 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Sounds like you have a conundrum.   You do realize  you do not have to open the door of a FL all the way, really depends on how tight your laundry room is.  After a decade with a FL I would not ever consider a TL machine.  You will find folks in both camps here TL and FL.  I find the lift and drop of a FL to be a substantially better wash action than trying the move the water through the clothes as I see most new machines do.  Older ones used to move the clothes through the water.

 

Question - if you stacked the washer and dryer could you rotate them 90 degrees? 


Post# 1025807 , Reply# 27   2/27/2019 at 06:32 by Kate1 (Idaho)        

You are in a similar conundrum to myself, I had a thread in Imperial recently about my own issue. My 20 year old DD Whirlpool recently stopped working and I have been unsuccessful in finding the correct replacement part. I have four kids and my husband and I both work in fairly grungy professions so heavy-duty cleaning performance is a must. I had been thinking of getting another used DD machine but the potential for getting a lemon worried me tremendously. It does sound like you have an awesome used appliance dealer semi-local to you though, which would alleviate much of my concern personally. The solution I have come to for myself is buying a commercial SQ as well as a front loader. Iím moving into a house in a month that has dual laundry hookups and comes with a washer (though itís an awful HE top loader) that will tide us over until I can plonk down the cash for my new machine (the SQ is getting purchased first). Iím not concerned about the washer capacity on it, it seems more than capable of handling the loads my family is going to throw at it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Post# 1025822 , Reply# 28   2/27/2019 at 09:42 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        

WhiskeyBill - Your washer is very similar to mine! But the glass-top lid and stainless tub are definitely improvements. Very nice. I have to admit, reading so much about washing machines has made me appreciate the one we have a bit more. My main gripe about it has always been how terribly it twists clothes, sheets, everything. I noticed it from the very first cycle in 2009, and while I have grown used to it, I still don't like it. Our old Speed Queen just didn't do that. I'm not sure why. As for cleaning, it works. Since it's an HE machine, it took us a while to learn that less is more when it comes to detergent usage, but we figured it out and have since been happy on that front. I used to launder kids' cloth diapers too, and still wash on average, one load/day or more of regular laundry. If it weren't for the tub rust, I wouldn't be searching for a new machine.

GusHerb - Thanks for that info. Good to know.

Dadoes - Yes. I believe it was the load-sensing or pressure switch? The machine would fill with water while spinning dry, or agitate at the wrong time. My husband has fixed it a couple of times. It's been good for a while now though. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to prepare a list of possible models and questions.

MattL - Yep. It's a conundrum. Trust me, I've stared at our tiny laundry room for a good while. Short of moving the window or pocket door, re-routing plumbing, and losing cabinet storage space, there isn't much room for improvement. Stacked at 90-degrees won't work either. Technically, we could *fit* a FL machine now. Barely. IF it had a door with a left-side hinge. But it would be cumbersome to deal with every time, and we couldn't use a pedestal due to the upper cabinets currently above the washer and dryer.

Kate1 - Wow. That would be a lot of laundry! Good luck with your decisions. Are you planning to purchase an LWN model then?


Post# 1025865 , Reply# 29   2/27/2019 at 20:25 by LukeS (Charlotte, NC)        

LaundryMaven,
The capacity on the speed queen LWN commercial models and 2017 residential models are the same. Speed Queen is just rounding up the 3.26 to 3.3 on the residential model literature, if you dive into the parts manuals they both use the same washtub part number "719P3". Below is the spec for the commercial LWNE22SP115TW01 which lists 3.26 capacity.
docs.alliancelaundry.com/tech_pdf...

Switching the control panel is easy but is not cheap

If you are moving from a larger capacity unit you will find the speed queen and MVWP575GW small. Also if you are trying to save water you may want to consider the LG front loader WM3770HWA Lorain loves.





Post# 1026052 , Reply# 30   3/2/2019 at 12:57 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        
Narrowing our options...Would an LG FL work?

Checking back in with the latest updates. Sorry, this is a lot:

1) I called Synergy Appliance in Grand Rapids. Their larger capacity refurb direct drives cost around $425-$525 (we'd likely be looking at the upper-end number). Transportation expenses would be an extra $150-$175 (we'd probably get a $10 credit for them taking our old Kenmore). So, that would bring our total expense to around $650-$700, not counting the gas money and time associated with making an initial road trip to Grand Rapids.

2) I visited a reputable, small-town appliance store. I looked at the 2018 Speed Queens and we discussed them at length. The owners have a 2018 TR7 that replaced a long-running LG front-loader. They said their old LG was much better for large capacity loads, but that the new Speed Queen cleans better. One of them works with pottery, and she told me that she routinely puts clay-soiled clothes into the machine on heavy-duty and that they come out clean. She said they fully recommend it over all other TL models they sell. *Shrug* Who knows.

3) Also still up for consideration is the Maytag MVWB766 (this is the commercial, better-warrantied version of MVWB765). Good looks. Nice capacity, but another suspect agi-pellar and questionable quality. If it washed well and lasted several years, this would be my top choice.

4) I haven't really considered Fisher Paykel. Thoughts on their TL with agitator? Not sure how difficult it is to find service though, and some reports indicate the only hot water they use is on an allergen cycle.

5) I'm giving another hard look at the LG WM3770 FL model. I took measurements of our available laundry room space: 64" long from entry door to window wall; 66" width from side wall behind washer/dryer, to outside edge of counter top where the cabinets and laundry sink are; 32" is the depth of the alcove where the washer/dryer sit (and that is if you include door molding); 52.5" from floor to the bottom of our wall-mount cabinets which sit above the washer and dryer. The LG has a 51" depth with its door open, so if you assume it is about 5" out from the wall, that leaves 10" of space between the open door and the counter top. I suppose it's doable if I'm standing off to the side when opening the door? But I'd want a pedestal, because they sit too low otherwise. The pedestal is 13.6", which would put the machine at 52.3" high. So it might fit under our cabinets. Barely. But even if we squeeze these things into our laundry room, I'd no longer have floor space for an air-drying rack (because of the door swing), but could probably mount one over the counter. It's just a lot to think about, and then I worry about warranty and customer service if the LG develops problems. The FL's have so many bells and whistles and I prefer functional simplicity. If $ and space were no issue, I'd be all over Miele.

In summary, we can:

a) Spend a lot of time and moderate expense to buy a used, quality refurb TL machine;
b) Buy a Speed Queen for more expense, great build quality and warranty, good local customer service, but less-than-ideal washing and smallish capacity;
c) Buy a commercial-warrantied Maytag for more expense, good customer service, good capacity, but questionable quality and washing ability, noisier, etc.
d) Cram LG front-loaders into our tiny laundry room for significant expense, enjoy great capacity but hope it works for a good while, because service/warranty could be challenging.

What would you do? I'm not excited to spend money on any of these options, but we need to figure something out. Remember, we are on a septic system, so water hogs without adjustable water levels are not an option. Thanks everyone. Sorry to type a book.










Post# 1026056 , Reply# 31   3/2/2019 at 13:52 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

$425 to $525 for a refurbed direct-drive.
Oh my.† Is that for only a washer, or a washer & dryer pair?† I have a 1999 Kenmore 90 for sale at $325 that is rebuilt with a new tub support (centerpost & bearings), spin drive (shaft, brake & clutch), refurbed transmission (agitator shaft, spin gear & neutral drain parts, fresh oil).† Only one inquiry in 6 months.† I also have a 2003 Whirlpool that's similarly refurbed that I haven't yet tried to sell.

Regards to F&P, do you mean new or used?† Anyway, the agitator model runs a full-hot fill (or warm) on the Allergy cycle.† The other cycles fill with the selected temperature only for a pretreatment phase which sprays a concentrated detergent solution over the load for a few mins, then adds cold water (without draining the pretreat solution) for the agitated wash period.† They have auto-sensing water level and five manual choices (auto-sense selects one of the five).† Low is just up to the bottom agitator fins, high is to top of the tub.† Here's a YouTube channel with several videos of a current-model agitator F&P running various cycles and loads.† JoeyPete

Frontloaders are, of course, the best choice for water conservation.


Post# 1026058 , Reply# 32   3/2/2019 at 14:41 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
What would you do?

If those were my options I'd go to the refurb place and bargain hard on one of their used DD machines and be ready to walk if I couldn't get a healthy discount. But I'm a cheap skate on stuff like that.

However, don't tell them where you drove from or you'll lose negotiation leverage.

Think about it, they probably get them for free, select the best ones needing the least work, put a low level employee to clean them up, then sell at a premium price, almost all of which is pure profit. There is room to haggle price, unlike new machines were margins are razor thin.

That would at least check off a few of your boxes.


Post# 1026059 , Reply# 33   3/2/2019 at 14:45 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
Speed Queen on CL

grandrapids.craigslist.org/app/d...

Post# 1026070 , Reply# 34   3/2/2019 at 15:22 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        
Dadoes and Good-shepherd

Those prices are just for the washer. Per Eugene of Lorraine, the owner does top-notch work on his refurbs, but yeah. It's a bit of money. Also, our time is money.

I am not against bargaining at all, but the idea of spending a day driving to Grand Rapids, attempting to bargain, and possibly just turning around and going back home, having wasted gas and valuable time, is not appealing to me. But I hear you good-shepherd. That would be the ideal option.

Dadoes - I'm referring to new F&P. There seems to be a loyal following of people who have had their washers for a long time, but I'm not sure how current models rate.

Good-shepherd - I saw that Craig's List ad a couple of days ago, but it looks suspicious to me. Those are clearly brand-new machines, but someone says they are 2-3 years old. I'm cautious when it comes to CL. And since they are in Grand Rapids, transportation would still need to be factored in. We have a truck, but properly hauling, loading/unloading washing machines is not that simple, right? It would just be my husband and I doing the lifting.

I know others on here can commiserate, but this whole experience is just so ridiculous. I sometimes think we need to become impulse buyers and not read up on anything, because ignorance just might be bliss, lol. But it's against my analytical nature.



Post# 1026073 , Reply# 35   3/2/2019 at 15:53 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
Speed Queen- but it looks suspicious to me

Just e-mail and ask some simple questions like: Did you buy them new, is the dryer gas or electric? (ad didn't specify). etc.

Flakey Craigslist sellers are usually easy to weed out in an e-mail or two.

Could be a situation where they moved into a new place and have their own machines or the wife wants front loaders and they really don't know much about them and just want them gone.


Post# 1026125 , Reply# 36   3/3/2019 at 03:41 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I'd opt for the LG FL as I previously mentioned, and others have posted.  The operation can be as simple as you like or use some options if need be occasionally. How does the dryer vent?  If it's possible to side vent you may be able to get the machines closer than 5" from the wall. If I recall the LG can side vent. Just a thought.

 

If you can post some pictures.


Post# 1026192 , Reply# 37   3/4/2019 at 10:19 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        
Think I've made a decision

After a lot of measuring, and measuring again, I think we're going to take the plunge and go with the LG FL's. I just can't find a TL that suits our needs and is worthy of the price.

It will be a really tight fit, but I confirmed that we actually have 52 3/4" from bottom of cabinets to the floor. So the LG 3770 washer and a same-sized dryer on pedestals, should just barely squeeze in. My understanding is top venting isn't necessary on these models, and there will be some space between the units and along the sides, so I think airflow will be adequate. Space in front of the washer and dryer won't be ideal, but I think we can get used to it. The door-clearance issue might not be as much of a concern as I thought it would. And I've decided nothing exists that will be ideal in our laundry room. At least this way, we get the functionality of a larger washer, turbo (fast wash) option, and less water in the septic system.

It's going to cost a lot more than we anticipated, since we weren't going to replace our dryer. But a larger dryer would probably be helpful since wash size will be increasing. And hopefully we can sell our old dryer on CL.

The real clincher is that Costco (of which we are members) is selling the LG3770/DLEX3570V duo, with pedestals, for a great price. Buying from Costco gives us a two-year manufacturer's warranty, and if we pay with our Costco Visa card, we get an additional two-year equivalent warranty, for four years parts and labor coverage. I'm still debating paying an extra $200 for the three-year SquareTrade warranty offered through Costco. If we did that, I confirmed the benefits would stack for seven years. Normally I don't think extended warranties are a good value, but seven years parts and labor sounds pretty good. And even if we paid for the warranty, it's still a few hundred dollars less for the full set than buying anywhere else without the warranty.

On that note, I really, really wanted to do business with the small appliance store I visited. If the price was only $50-$100 different, I still would have. But the savings of a few hundred dollars, coupled with the extensive warranties, can't be beat. And I did confirm that we have vendors who service LG in my area, so that's important, because I've read it can be an issue for some.

Fingers crossed this all works out. I haven't placed my order yet, but likely will by the end of the day. It may take a few weeks, but I'll post a photo when all is said and done. Thanks everyone for giving me good information to consider. If you have any final suggestions or noteworthy comments, by all means, let me know!


Post# 1026212 , Reply# 38   3/4/2019 at 13:20 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Did you ask the local dealer if theyíre willing to price match? The ones around here are always willing to match the lowest price, especially if itís a big box store.

Post# 1026281 , Reply# 39   3/5/2019 at 05:43 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

Several of our neighbors had their washers and dishwashers draining out onto their yards.  But, a septic guy once told us that septic tanks need water and washing machine water is no problem for a septic tank.  We never had any trouble out of ours in the 26 years we had it before the city installed sewer system.  And we had a dishwasher and disposal.


Post# 1026312 , Reply# 40   3/5/2019 at 12:54 by LaundryMaven (Michigan)        
GusHerb

I did not ask - only because the savings was already about $500, and I knew they wouldn't be able to match the comprehensive parts and labor warranty coverage that also come with buying from Costco (four years, because I opted not to buy the additional three-year coverage). By using my Costco credit card, we get a lot of points for cash back, which offsets the cost even further.

Now, I may regret this decision if we end up with the less-than-stellar install issues associated with big-box appliance sales. It might also take us a few weeks to receive delivery. But since our current washer still works, I'm okay with that. It's a trade off for an extra $500+ in pocket.

On an unrelated note, I opted out of buying the pedestals, because the savings on those was negligible, and paying an extra $500 for them seems ridiculous. If my back complains too much, we can always buy those later or perhaps build a platform. This way, I won't be so stressed about fitting the new appliances in with a hairs-width of clearance to spare. Obviously, I've made some concessions throughout this process. :)


Post# 1026397 , Reply# 41   3/6/2019 at 07:35 by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
.
Pedestals can be found on Craigslist for a massive discount the new price.
They donít really wear out, and they donít have to color match each other or the washer/dryer theyíre under. I like to have the machines lower and use the top as a work surface, canít do that with pedestals.

If they added anything to the new machines they probably also took something away that will be missed.
Look at the unrelenting overall decline in materials and longevity of laundry appliances in general.
The grey will look much better than white imo, and the newer ones only are available in white at this point.

What is ďturbo washĒ called on the Kenmore version?


Post# 1026413 , Reply# 42   3/6/2019 at 13:21 by Whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

whatsername's profile picture
Accela Wash




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